Kenny says Abdelkader is ready

[LeftWinger 5,152]

Here's The NEW Roster: (NOT ACTUAL LINE COMBOS)

Pavel Datsyuk $6,700,000 - Henrik Zetterberg $6,083,333 - Johan Franzen $3,954,545

Valtteri Filppula $3,000,000 - Daniel Cleary $2,800,000 - Tomas Holmstrom $2,250,000

Kris Draper $1,583,333 - * Travis Moen $1,500,000 - * Ville Leino $950,000

Kirk Maltby $883,333 - Justin Abdelkader $850,000 - * Ryan Oulahen $600,000

Darren Helm $599,444

DEFENSEMEN

Nicklas Lidstrom $7,450,000 - Brian Rafalaski $6,000,000

Brad Stuart $3,750,000 - Niklas Kronwall $3,000,000

Andreas Lilja $1,250,000 - Jonathan Ericsson $900,000

Derek Meech $483,333

GOALTENDERS

Chris Osgood $1,416,666

Jimmy Howard $716,666

If you like line combos, then here:

Cleary - Zetterberg - Datsyuk

Leino - Filppula - Franzen

Moen - Helm - Homstrom

Maltby - Draper - Abdelkader

Oulahen (he and Maltby can rotate in an out 13th forward)

Lidstrom - Rafalski

Stuart - Kronwall

Lilja - Ericsson

Meech (Trade Lebda to Phoenix or Florida or Isles for a 3rd or 4th round pick)

Osgood

Howard

[LeftWinger 5,152]

Yeah, I forgot that Leino has to get a raise according to the CBA, so I'll have to redo the numbers with that raise in mind. I'll post that in a few mins.

You already said Oulahen is out of options, first of all, how is that determined, I wouldn't mind knowing for myself when a player is out of options, TIA. Second, is Tardiff also out of options in the minors?

[Drake_Marcus 890]

Ok, I messed up my numbers before by not accounting for the CBA mandated raises for RFAs.

Notes:

--> Hudler signs a 3 year deal at $2,45,000 per (you'll see why I didn't do 2.5 mil at the end)

--> Ryan Oulahen signs a 2 year deal for $574,750 per (the minimum raise for an RFA, note he's out of minors options)

--> Lilja is healthy and Lebda gets traded

Zetterberg Datsyuk Cleary

Franzen Filppula Hudler

Leino Helm Holmstrom

Maltby Draper Oulahen

Lidstrom Rafalski

Kronwall Stuart

Ericsson Lilja

Meech

Osgood

Howard

Cap space remaining: $78,382 (now you know why I couldn't give Hudler 2.5 mil on the dot)

If you switch Lebda in for Lilja the cap space balloons to $678,382.

For people who don't know Oulahen here are some facts I've assembled for you:

-->24 years old and out of minors options (and thus will go on waivers if he isn't in Detroit at the start of the season).

--> He's 6'0 and 190 lbs, shoots left and plays centre.

--> PK specialist, in GR is used in a shut-down role against the opposition's top players.

--> A fast skater, great speed and acceleration,

--> Excellent on face-offs

--> Considered a character guy with great leadership skills

--> Assistant captain in GR this year, spent 2nd half as the captain in GR.

--> Dislocated his hip on March 27th, ending his season and really hurting the PK situation for the team in the playoffs.

--> 08-09 Numbers: 19g 12a 31pts +7 in 73 games.

--> Not very gritty or useful in terms of checking (although that can be emphasized by Babs)

[LeftWinger 5,152]

With Sammy getting $2.5m and Clowe getting $3.5m, I cannot see Hudler siging for less than $3.0m somewhere. He actually outscored Clowe goal wise and point wise, I realize they are two differen types of players, but numbers are numbers, stats are stats. Hudler SHOULD get $3.0 to $3.5, but maybe he'll take $2.0 or less to stay here... Doubt it...

My question is still out there, if an arbitrator awards Hudler $3.0 or more, does Holland have to sign him or can he let him walk? And does that make him a UFA at that point?

[Drake_Marcus 890]

You already said Oulahen is out of options, first of all, how is that determined, I wouldn't mind knowing for myself when a player is out of options, TIA. Second, is Tardiff also out of options in the minors?

Tardiff still has one more season in GR left. I believe they can only have 260 professional games under their belt in the AHL (fewer for goalies). Once that happens they either come up to the NHL or they have to pass through waivers.

[Drake_Marcus 890]

With Sammy getting $2.5m and Clowe getting $3.5m, I cannot see Hudler siging for less than $3.0m somewhere. He actually outscored Clowe goal wise and point wise, I realize they are two differen types of players, but numbers are numbers, stats are stats. Hudler SHOULD get $3.0 to $3.5, but maybe he'll take $2.0 or less to stay here... Doubt it...

My question is still out there, if an arbitrator awards Hudler $3.0 or more, does Holland have to sign him or can he let him walk? And does that make him a UFA at that point?

The team is forced to either sign the player at that price or release them.

Edit: The team can also trade the player if they sign them and they can't afford to keep them under the cap (you can be over the cap in the summer).

Edited July 3, 2009 by Drake_Marcus

[LeftWinger 5,152]

Tardiff still has one more season in GR left. I believe they can only have 260 professional games under their belt in the AHL (fewer for goalies). Once that happens they either come up to the NHL or they have to pass through waivers.

very interesting, thank you...

So WTF are we gonna do with Oulahen? Nobody has really even fatored him in until now... With Hudler wanting more than $2.5m (especially since Sammy got $2.5 and Clowe got $3.5, he should get more) I cannot see how we can sign him now...

The team is forced to either sign the player at that price or release them.

Edit: The team can also trade the player if they sign them and they can't afford to keep them under the cap (you can be over the cap in the summer).

So if they release him, he would be UFA, then no draft pick(s)?

Edited July 3, 2009 by LeftWinger

[Drake_Marcus 890]

Second, is Tardiff also out of options in the minors?

Nope. He has another year left.

[Guest mindfly]

Can't leino re-sign for the same salary as last year, that is 900k ?

[Drake_Marcus 890]

very interesting, thank you...

So WTF are we gonna do with Oulahen? Nobody has really even fatored him in until now... With Hudler wanting more than $2.5m (especially since Sammy got $2.5 and Clowe got $3.5, he should get more) I cannot see how we can sign him now...

He'll go in instead of Abdelkader. Abs is better off playing 20+ mins a night in GR than playing 6 mins in Detroit.

Oulahen is well suited to our needs right now- he's an excellent penalty killer and shut-down guy. And he's almost $200,000 cheaper than Abdelkader, which helps pay Hudler off.

[Drake_Marcus 890]

Can't leino re-sign for the same salary as last year, that is 900k ?

He got $875,000 last year. And no. The CBA mandates that you have to give RFA players a raise of 5% if they made between $660,000 and $1,000,000, 10% if they made less than $660,000. (source: Gubki on the Red Wings Central forums).

[titanium2 867]

He'll go in instead of Abdelkader. Abs is better off playing 20+ mins a night in GR than playing 6 mins in Detroit.

Oulahen is well suited to our needs right now- he's an excellent penalty killer and shut-down guy. And he's almost $200,000 cheaper than Abdelkader, which helps pay Hudler off.

It's not a bad idea. I hope he can play wing. He's not really an ideal player for the 4th line but he's serviceable.

[Drake_Marcus 890]

So if they release him, he would be UFA, then no draft pick(s)?

I believe so, yes.

[matt198913 932]

Not sure how everyone else feels but I think Abs could score 15 of the 60 goals that we've lost with Hossa and Sammy leaving

[BlakKy 58]

Not sure how everyone else feels but I think Abs could score 15 of the 60 goals that we've lost with Hossa and Sammy leaving

Probably won't if he plays on the 4th line for 6 mins a night.

We need Leino to chip in 20, Fil to increase his production (maybe 25-30?) and if Hudler gets a raise he needs to score more as well.

If all of that happens then losing Hossa and Sammy will not sting quite so bad.

[Drake_Marcus 890]

It's not a bad idea. I hope he can play wing. He's not really an ideal player for the 4th line but he's serviceable.

He's a left handed shot, so I'm sure he can play the left wing. That makes him a good candidate to put with Maltby (RW) and Draper © on the 4th.

His PK and defensive abilities would be a good bonus to have given the fact that the horrible PK played a big part in us losing the cup (Pitts destroyed us on the PP for the first half of series- shut them down on the PK and you strangle the hope out of them).

The only thing that sucks is that Abdelkader is a great hitter and this guy isn't. But in my opinion the PKing bonus is worth it.

[ShanahanMan 473]

I'm sorry, but I really don't like all of this. We're taking kids who ONLY played in the playoffs last year and putting them as regulars on the team and expecting to have breakout seasons. You all are basically saying, "Its okay we've lost 60 goals in Hossa and Sammy, we'll make it up when Leino, Helm, and Abs score at least 20 each". You guys are expecting way too much and are putting a lot of pressure for first year kids to fill some BIG shoes. I don't think its gonna happen, and unless we somehow sign a at least a 3rd line 15-20 goal scorer, I think we're in trouble.

[LeftWinger 5,152]

Boy, considering the talent we've lost (and when we lose Hudler & gain Moen (sorry until its out of the question, I am holding out hope.)) but considering ourt lossess, even losing the Cup, I am getting more and more excited everyday the season draws closer! Helm/Ericsson/Leino/Abdelkader/Oulahen! It just looks up and up for the Wings each year! Cannot wait until NEXT off season when Holmstrom, Maltby, Lilja & Lids come off the books! Our RFA's will be Tardiff/Ritola/Ryno/Meech/Helm/Kindl/Larsson/Kolosov ALL of which will be easily signed, with Helm probably getting the largest raise of them all... Probably with Ritola/Ryno/Kindl/Kolosov challenging for Detroit spots next! GD! Comig Soon, Youth Gone Wild!

[BlakKy 58]

I'm sorry, but I really don't like all of this. We're taking kids who ONLY played in the playoffs last year and putting them as regulars on the team and expecting to have breakout seasons. You all are basically saying, "Its okay we've lost 60 goals in Hossa and Sammy, we'll make it up when Leino, Helm, and Abs score at least 20 each". You guys are expecting way too much and are putting a lot of pressure for first year kids to fill some BIG shoes. I don't think its gonna happen, and unless we somehow sign a at least a 3rd line 15-20 goal scorer, I think we're in trouble.

Fil has an opportunity now to show us what he can do with top minutes. Leino is a natural goal scorer... good for 20.

It's not entirely grim.

[LeftWinger 5,152]

I'm sorry, but I really don't like all of this. We're taking kids who ONLY played in the playoffs last year and putting them as regulars on the team and expecting to have breakout seasons. You all are basically saying, "Its okay we've lost 60 goals in Hossa and Sammy, we'll make it up when Leino, Helm, and Abs score at least 20 each". You guys are expecting way too much and are putting a lot of pressure for first year kids to fill some BIG shoes. I don't think its gonna happen, and unless we somehow sign a at least a 3rd line 15-20 goal scorer, I think we're in trouble.

Leino scored 5 goals in 13 games for us, prorate that and its 31 goals over an 82 game season. I have no doubt that Helm could score 15-20 in 82 games as well. If we sign Moen there is another 10-15 playing with Helm or being a big body on the PP. Even if Leino only nets 25 that is still 51 goals on the lower estimate for these guys (OK, Moen isn't signed yet, YET, but even Abby could possibly net 10) Expect increases from Zetterberg and Datyuk when they reunite and you can give Cleary a few more playing with them. Franzen and Filppula should breakout even more. Sooner or later (with the cap it's looking like sooner) the kids are going to be here. They are ready, we are ALL ready. Youth Gone Wild!

[Snazzy 0]

Leino scored 5 goals in 13 games for us, prorate that and its 31 goals over an 82 game season. I have no doubt that Helm could score 15-20 in 82 games as well. If we sign Moen there is another 10-15 playing with Helm or being a big body on the PP. Even if Leino only nets 25 that is still 51 goals on the lower estimate for these guys (OK, Moen isn't signed yet, YET, but even Abby could possibly net 10) Expect increases from Zetterberg and Datyuk when they reunite and you can give Cleary a few more playing with them. Franzen and Filppula should breakout even more. Sooner or later (with the cap it's looking like sooner) the kids are going to be here. They are ready, we are ALL ready. Youth Gone Wild!

[BlakKy 58]

Moen won't score 15 goals... no way.

[Scott Krist 1]

I'm sorry, but I really don't like all of this. We're taking kids who ONLY played in the playoffs last year and putting them as regulars on the team and expecting to have breakout seasons. You all are basically saying, "Its okay we've lost 60 goals in Hossa and Sammy, we'll make it up when Leino, Helm, and Abs score at least 20 each". You guys are expecting way too much and are putting a lot of pressure for first year kids to fill some BIG shoes. I don't think its gonna happen, and unless we somehow sign a at least a 3rd line 15-20 goal scorer, I think we're in trouble.

Are we gonna gain all the offense we lost back? Highly doubtful! I still think the outcome you're painting here isn't quite so bleak. First of all The Red Wings defense was NOT up to standard last season and I for one expect a better effort this year. Secondly It is not unreasonable to expect better numbers from some of our roster players next year. This team managed without Hossa in 2008 and they can do it again in 2010. If the penalty kill and overall defense is better which I don't think is too much to expect there shouldn't be a huge issue. Samuelsson will be missed, but there comes a time when you have to let go and I think most people more or less expected this.

[ShanahanMan 473]

Leino scored 5 goals in 13 games for us, prorate that and its 31 goals over an 82 game season. I have no doubt that Helm could score 15-20 in 82 games as well. If we sign Moen there is another 10-15 playing with Helm or being a big body on the PP. Even if Leino only nets 25 that is still 51 goals on the lower estimate for these guys (OK, Moen isn't signed yet, YET, but even Abby could possibly net 10) Expect increases from Zetterberg and Datyuk when they reunite and you can give Cleary a few more playing with them. Franzen and Filppula should breakout even more. Sooner or later (with the cap it's looking like sooner) the kids are going to be here. They are ready, we are ALL ready. Youth Gone Wild!

Leino also had only 15 goals in 57 games played in GR. You're saying it'd be okay if he JUST nets 25. COME ON! Only nets 25??? Hey, I love the guy too and someday he'll blossom into a star player, but don't go into next season expecting 25 from him yet. You gotta have realistic expectations. Helm I think is good for 15, but how the heck do you think Moen will "be good for 10-15" when he's only scored 10 ONCE in his whole career??? And you're also "assuming" that Filppula will for sure rebound from a pretty dreadful season. As I said before, everyone is assuming waaaaaay too much, including Kenny. What if these kids DON'T have these stellar seasons that you all are expecting them to have? What if Homer and Fil and Draper DON'T rebound from bad seasons? What happens then? THIS is what has me scared. Nothing good ever comes from just "assuming" things will be fine.

Edited July 3, 2009 by ShanahanMan

[BlakKy 58]

Leino also had only 15 goals in 57 games played in GR. You're saying it'd be okay if he JUST nets 25. COME ON! Only nets 25??? Hey, I love the guy too and someday he'll blossom into a star player, but don't go into next season expecting 25 from him yet. You gotta have realistic expectations. Helm I think is good for 15, but how the heck do you think Moen will "be good for 10-15" when he's only scored 10 ONCE in his whole career??? And you're also "assuming" that Filppula will for sure rebound from a pretty dreadful season. As I said before, everyone is assuming waaaaaay too much, including Kenny. What if these kids DON'T have these stellar seasons that you all are expecting them to have? What if Homer and Fil and Draper DON'T rebound from bad seasons? What happens then? THIS is what has me scared. Nothing good ever comes from just "assuming" things will be fine.

Fil's game can be projected on a line graph at this point. There is no indication that he won't continue to improve. Every season he has continued to make slight improvements. Now that the management will be trusting him with top 6 minutes he will be in a position to put up top 6 points.