88 goals, 118 assists, and 206 points

[gcom007 1,465]

I stopped reading when you claimed the Wings will now lose more games than they won!

Perhaps you misread. What I meant was we're not likely to win as many games this year as we have in years past. I'm not saying we're going to lose more than we win.

[Opie 308]

Gotcha. sorry I will reread now!

Sorry but I cannot get past this sentence:

Losing that offense best-case scenario still likely means we're going to lose more games than we've won the last few years

To me you are saying that the wings are now going to lose more games than they won last year.

Thus basically turning their record around making them the worst team in the league.

Did you mean, they will lose more of the close games they were able to pull out?

Edited July 9, 2009 by Opie

[WingsCaptain 0]

Meh. The Wings organization is a machine ... they'll insert the right players, get the regulars to respond and produce more, and we'll keep on rolling.

In Holland I Trust. Everyone else, keep your hands where I can see 'em.

~ Z

[bonan78 1]

If Flip becomes our only option on the 2nd PP unit, I am concerned.

I seriously doubt that Filppula will be our "only option" on the 2nd power play.

Power Play Unit #1:

Datsyuk/Zetterberg/Holmstrom

Lidstrom/Rafalski

Power Play Unit #2:

Franzen/Filppula/Cleary(Leino)

Kronwall/Stuart(Ericsson)

No way he is the only option, we are just too deep, even with who we lost.

Edited July 9, 2009 by bonan78

[Guest Four]

Besides making an unequivocal claim that the team isn't going to be as good this season as it was last season, what was the point of this thread? Is it time to panic?

For once, I am not panicking!

I believe this will give our team an edge in the end, with less players becomes more unity and bigger roles. I can't wait to see Filppula, Hank and everyone else step up there game one notch more and our defense become stable.

However if we play like last year with this team, we'd be lucky to get in 8th

[Heroes of Hockeytown 694]

It's fine. Minutes will be redistributed, goals will be recouped from within. The major difference is that, like the rest of the NHL, the Wings are now a two-line team again. Of course, having three legitimate scoring lines was too good to last.

[DEVILSWATERBOY 10]

Actually yes Hudler was a top scorer on this team last season think he nesteled into the list comfortably... Sammy was in the past a top 2 line goal scorer did not have a good year last year...

Sammy second liner only becuase Babs liked him he has not one ounce of grit and loves to cough puck up at blue line as for Huds yes he found the net a few times but with his size and un D ability he has become more of a liability at times as for a top scorer on the team I have to question that I still say give me a player with heart and grit anyday in the playoffs ( Kenny find the hungry palyers )

[Opie 308]

Actually Sammy finishing in the top 6 of forwards statistically every year he was here made him a top 6 forward here, but good try!

[NewBelgium1554 0]

Why is assumed that the younger guys we brought up are going to produce absolutely nothing? You don't think with the lot of them they can't produce atleast a goal and 3 assists? That would bring the tallies to 87 goals and 115 assits, or ONLY 202 points lost.

But serisously do we expect them to generate nothing? Sure they are for the most part 'untested' in the regular season in the NHL but is it just to assume that they won't step up or that others won't step up? Now that these other clowns are gone what isn't to say the Pavs or Hank won't raise their scoring game a bit? Holland has been quoted saying that the depth of this team is why they don't have league leading scorers, so will this change that, could this change that?

[gcom007 1,465]

Gotcha. sorry I will reread now!

Sorry but I cannot get past this sentence:

To me you are saying that the wings are now going to lose more games than they won last year.

Thus basically turning their record around making them the worst team in the league.

Did you mean, they will lose more of the close games they were able to pull out?

Perhaps it's not worded well. Ultimately what I meant was that I don't think we're going to win 51 games this year. I think 40-45 is more realistic. The West is going to be more of a battle than it's been and we're not going to be as strong offensively next year. It'll be tough to put up the same amount of wins and points that we have the last few years when we had more scoring depth.

[Opie 308]

Gotcha, sorry to hound you but when you replied I missed it I kept trying to get what you meant. I wasn't harassing you.

And to that I agree, it will be tough winning fewer games, but I think the vets that surround these guys will help keep their heads in the game and worried about the next game.

I hope!

[Guest Crymson]

I agree, but I don't see the correlation that some do. We had an outstanding offense, sure, but this idea that it somehow influenced the defense to play sloppy is just lazy logic especially considering the nature of our defensive issues. We weren't pinching. We just gave the puch away in front of our net about a thousand times. That's fundamental stuff. I don't know why it happened, but it did. Stuart and especially Kronwall were responsible for much of it and considering we've really only seen one solid playoffs from Kronwall to justify the idea that he's a steady d-man, I'm a little concerned. I said all along in the regular season the the D concerned me far more than Osgood as I trusted that Osgood could flip the switch as he did but considering the nature of the defensive issues, I wasn't sure it'd be so simple to totally turn them off and it wasn't. Silly mistakes reared their heads more than a few times in the playoffs.

Helm, Leino and Abdelkader are gambles. Leino and Abby could produce a bit, but they could just as easily not produce much this year. Don't bet on Flip. Expect similar output to what you've seen. We'll be lucky if we get 5 extra goals out of him next year even with more ice time. He just doesn't have the shot or the fire.

So, in other words, you're arguing that we're screwed.

....

[gcom007 1,465]

Why is assumed that the younger guys we brought up are going to produce absolutely nothing? You don't think with the lot of them they can't produce atleast a goal and 3 assists? That would bring the tallies to 87 goals and 115 assits, or ONLY 202 points lost.

But serisously do we expect them to generate nothing? Sure they are for the most part 'untested' in the regular season in the NHL but is it just to assume that they won't step up or that others won't step up? Now that these other clowns are gone what isn't to say the Pavs or Hank won't raise their scoring game a bit? Holland has been quoted saying that the depth of this team is why they don't have league leading scorers, so will this change that, could this change that?

Nobody has suggested that. I swear, half of you people don't read well.

[Opie 308]

Nobody has suggested that. I swear, half of you people don't read well.

half, sweet we are making progress!

[gcom007 1,465]

So, in other words, you're arguing that we're screwed.

....

I think we're screwed if the goal is to win the Presidents trophy. As I've said numerous times, I don't think we're going to be as forceful of a powerhouse as we've been the last few years. Does that mean we're screwed? Only time will tell but I doubt it. I don't see the world in black and white like many here seem to. I think the Wings are going to have to battle it out in a more competitive conference and division with a weaker team. That's a scenario we haven't seen in awhile. This notion that we're better off having lost Hossa and Sammy is hogwash and the sentiment is heightened considering the loss of Hudler. It's not likely that this season is going to be a runaway.

[gcom007 1,465]

Gotcha, sorry to hound you but when you replied I missed it I kept trying to get what you meant. I wasn't harassing you.

And to that I agree, it will be tough winning fewer games, but I think the vets that surround these guys will help keep their heads in the game and worried about the next game.

I hope!

It's cool, no worries. I'm actually kinda excited heading into this season though. The regular season is going to be a lot more exciting than it's been because I don't think any team that's going to make the playoffs in the West is going to skate in easy. Every team is going to have to really work for it to be one of the eight to go. I think Chicago will take the conference most likely but I don't think they'll finish too far ahead of everyone else. I think we'll see a real even 40-50 game spread between eight and one. That's going to make for good hockey and it's going to make every month count for far more than it has for us in the past.

[NewBelgium1554 0]

Nobody has suggested that. I swear, half of you people don't read well.

The way you word it makes it seem like we lost those guys and we are barely going to be better then the Rangers in scoring. It appeared that we will be playing next season with the same team as last year, minus those 4(3) and no replacements, or just hollow shells.

And agree, I don't see the Presidents trophy coming our way this year again.

Now letting go of Hossa, Sammy and Huds short term = Not Good, for winning but does = Good for development and long term exposure for the Young Guys. Long Term = Indifferent IMO. We will still do fine, but now instead of grooming the youngins in GR for another season or two, we have to do a bit of fast tracking I think. I think they will hold their own just fine, not as total replacements this year but down the road, and I think shortly, they will do well as replacements. So the competitiveness these next couple years is gonna be closer, which might be a good thing, instead of having them coast through the reg season, but in the mid-long term I still think we come out on top.

Can't be good every year, sometimes a rebuilding period is needed. I think this is that time period, I actually think these last couple of season has been that we were just awesome enough to win a cup in there and damn near another one, but I think this is the low point of this period.

Edited July 9, 2009 by NewBelgium1554

[Opie 308]

I have a great outlook going into the season and you may think I am a fool, or insane, or not a real fan.

But after the past 3 years if the Wings make the playoffs, honestly I am happy.

NO one in the salary cap era makes 3 deep runs like that and has the ability to keep their group together and let alone continue to seek out high end UFA's. Most teams build for the cup and then collapse after it. Either due to losing players or through losing steam after 9 months of hockey including 3 months of intense playoff hockey.

I have complete faith in the Red Wings, it is very similar to rooting for the Red Sox. The new front office has shown that no matter what, they want to win and they are always trying to get better (rumored to be interested in Halladay).

You give them a pass, you are more willing to look at injuries and fatigue as explanations of losses when you team has won 2 championships in the last 7 years (Wings, 5 for Sox).

Now The C's they better turn their s*** around, one championship year after a disastrous year and then a decent year does not make me a happy fan, I want more.

Football is different, I root for the pats, but I am more of a football fan due to fantasy sports than I am football itself. I still prefer college pigskin to pro.

[Snazzy 0]

You guys are crazy if you don't think Leino will net 18-20 goals. He's going to be great. Ericsson will net us 7-10 goals, Abby will get us 8 goals, and Helm will net 10-12 goals.

That is 42 goals in a worse case scenario. Also expect more goals from Cleary, Zetterberg and Filippula. The Wings will be fine!

[gcom007 1,465]

The way you word it makes it seem like we lost those guys and we are barely going to be better then the Rangers in scoring. It appeared that we will be playing next season with the same team as last year, minus those 4(3) and no replacements, or just hollow shells.

And agree, I don't see the Presidents trophy coming our way this year again.

Now letting go of Hossa, Sammy and Huds short term = Not Good, for winning but does = Good for development and long term exposure for the Young Guys. Long Term = Indifferent IMO. We will still do fine, but now instead of grooming the youngins in GR for another season or two, we have to do a bit of fast tracking I think. I think they will hold their own just fine, not as total replacements this year but down the road, and I think shortly, they will do well as replacements. So the competitiveness these next couple years is gonna be closer, which might be a good thing, instead of having them coast through the reg season, but in the mid-long term I still think we come out on top.

Can't be good every year, sometimes a rebuilding period is needed. I think this is that time period, I actually think these last couple of season has been that we were just awesome enough to win a cup in there and damn near another one, but I think this is the low point of this period.

From the original post:

Now, if you really want to see how ugly that is, check this out....

http://www.nhl.com/ice/teamstats.htm?fetch...ewName=goalsFor

Subtract 88 goals and we edge out the Rangers by a goal for 28th place in goals scored.

Obviously, it's not that cut and dry, but our kids are not likely to put up that much. Leino's had success at times but he wasn't a big scorer in the AHL even. It's unlikely we'll be able to bring anyone in with our cap space to help that much.

I'm not saying we're out at all as a lot of elite teams are taking a hit this go around as well, but this sure isn't going to be like the last few seasons. This team is going to have to work harder than ever for every point.

88 goals, 118 assists, and 206 points - 4 (really 3...) players

That is not something to minimize.

I'm not a doom and gloomer nor am I panicking. But I'm certainly not about to minimize the loss of these guys either like many are. I'm trying to live in the middle which I believe to be closer to reality. The Rangers comment was just to add a bit of a punch to the idea that this is nothing to minimize but I knew the point wasn't wholly logical in terms of looking at next season which is why I quickly followed it up with "obviously it's not that cut and dry..."

[gcom007 1,465]

You guys are crazy if you don't think Leino will net 18-20 goals. He's going to be great. Ericsson will net us 7-10 goals, Abby will get us 8 goals, and Helm will net 10-12 goals.

That is 42 goals in a worse case scenario. Also expect more goals from Cleary, Zetterberg and Filippula. The Wings will be fine!

I sure hope he does and I believe he'll score a lot of goals for us in the future, but I'm not convinced he'll do it next year. Even Datsyuk only put in 11 goals in his first year. I think Leino's got plenty of upside, but these guys are rookies. I'm more than happy to have them and I think they're going to be solid Wings for a long time if they're cool with our money game. But I'm not going to expect too much from them right off the bat. You're bound to be disappointed and it's simply not the most realistic expectation. Keep things balanced and reasonable and if they do exceed your expectations, than life is all the better for all parties involved. But I'm not going to set them up to fail in my head.

[NewBelgium1554 0]

Hmmm.... I seem to have missed that 'Obviously...' Statement several times when I went through that...... Whoops, you sir seem to be correct about inability to read here. And I too am sitting on Middle Ground here about next season.

Edited July 9, 2009 by NewBelgium1554

[gcom007 1,465]

I have a great outlook going into the season and you may think I am a fool, or insane, or not a real fan.

But after the past 3 years if the Wings make the playoffs, honestly I am happy.

NO one in the salary cap era makes 3 deep runs like that and has the ability to keep their group together and let alone continue to seek out high end UFA's. Most teams build for the cup and then collapse after it. Either due to losing players or through losing steam after 9 months of hockey including 3 months of intense playoff hockey.

I have complete faith in the Red Wings, it is very similar to rooting for the Red Sox. The new front office has shown that no matter what, they want to win and they are always trying to get better (rumored to be interested in Halladay).

You give them a pass, you are more willing to look at injuries and fatigue as explanations of losses when you team has won 2 championships in the last 7 years (Wings, 5 for Sox).

Now The C's they better turn their s*** around, one championship year after a disastrous year and then a decent year does not make me a happy fan, I want more.

Football is different, I root for the pats, but I am more of a football fan due to fantasy sports than I am football itself. I still prefer college pigskin to pro.

My gut tells me we're not going to go far this year, but I think it'll be a successful year all things considered and I think we'll be right back in the hunt the next year. I absolutely agree with you. It's not panic, it just is what it is. We've had 3 deep runs and just took a pretty big hit and have a lot of kids coming up and guys winding down. This will likely be a bit of a transition year and I'm cool with that. Not to say I won't be pissed and hurting if we do get knocked out early, but I'm with you. My expectations aren't sky high heading into this year. I try to see the positive in everything though and I think the Wings will grow a lot to prepare for another era this season and we'll look back on it as important no matter what. These 4 kids coming up are real solid kids that I think have potential to be flesh and blood Wings for a long time. That's going to be exciting to watch.

And hell, I love hockey. I just can't wait to watch hockey again. I sure as hell want to win, but I can't wait for the competition again and the excitement. I was joking with some people a day before game 7 about this summer and said, "I don't know what I'm going to do without this anxiety in my life for 3 months!" I thrive on it because I love this game. It'll be great to see how it all plays out.

[Snazzy 0]

I sure hope he does and I believe he'll score a lot of goals for us in the future, but I'm not convinced he'll do it next year. Even Datsyuk only put in 11 goals in his first year. I think Leino's got plenty of upside, but these guys are rookies. I'm more than happy to have them and I think they're going to be solid Wings for a long time if they're cool with our money game. But I'm not going to expect too much from them right off the bat. You're bound to be disappointed and it's simply not the most realistic expectation. Keep things balanced and reasonable and if they do exceed your expectations, than life is all the better for all parties involved. But I'm not going to set them up to fail in my head.

Is it fair to compare Datsyuk's rookie season to Leino? I mean Detroit was stacked with allstars and Datsyuk didn't get to play any reasonable amount of ice time. I expect Leino getting some 2nd line ice time, and he'll probably even get some chances at playing with Datsyuk and/or Zetterberg on the powerplay. I also like the way Leino and Zetterberg gel together, they seem to have some chemistry. Am I the only one who noticed this?

[gcom007 1,465]

Is it fair to compare Datsyuk's rookie season to Leino? I mean Detroit was stacked with allstars and Datsyuk didn't get to play any reasonable amount of ice time. I expect Leino getting some 2nd line ice time, and he'll probably even get some chances at playing with Datsyuk and/or Zetterberg on the powerplay. I also like the way Leino and Zetterberg gel together, they seem to have some chemistry. Am I the only one who noticed this?

Is it really such a bad thing to hope for 10 goals from him and to be more excited later if he scores 20?