Just an observation...Toews

[Guest GordieSid&Ted]

haha youre funny. Maybe one day, in my dreams, I shall improve from my padawan status but until that day.....I shall learn from the masta.

What was it that gave away my adolescence? Was it the unfathomable proposition of Toews joining the wings or was it my childlike sensitivity to realistic critiques from those who know more then i do?

haha, atleast I dont base my ideas on the trade I just made on nhl09.

It really was just a half-baked thought though. I just wanted to see what it was worth.

I don't know who that other guy is but let's get one thing straight. I am the master.

as for Toews, my guess is the amount of dough it would take to steal him from Chicago (ie, an amount they would or could not match......would equate to us having to surrender 5 consecutive 1st round picks. That's just my guess of course)

so sayeth the true Master. GS&T out

[Decoy Jones 0]

A top 3 defenseman? Was he up for a Norris this year? I missed his name along with Lidstrom, Chara, and Green. I'm not trying to be too sarcastic. However, Seabrook will be there through next year and will be getting a raise on his $3.5M salary in 2011 and Hjalmarsson is RFA next year with Keith. I think Kane is the face of the Hawks, although I agree he is the weakest of the 3 (Toews, Kane and Keith). I agree about having a young D-man and Keith is improving. If we somehow get Keith, it keeps our D stocked for quite a while (Kindl moving up in the future)

I don't see any team paying for Campbell. Huet, if he has a great yeara, will remain in Chi. If he sucks, like I expect him to, nobody will pick him up at his current salary. Hawks are stuck with both. Between Huet (average goaltender), Campbell (overpaid, overated) and Hossa (questionable shoulder), about 30% of next year's cap is already accounted for. If Hawks sign all 3, they may only be able to put 10 guys on the ice plus a goalie ha ha.

Do you even know what "a top 3 defensemen means"?

[MadMan Mark 0]

Do you even know what "a top 3 defensemen means"?

You are correct, I misread and misunderstood initially. I stand corrected. . . he is a Top 3 D-man in Chicago.

[eva unit zero 271]

Do you even know what "a top 3 defensemen means"?

[quote name='MadMan Mark date='August 10, 2009 - 04:39PM

No, he read my post correctly.

Mike Green is an overrated POS. Duncan Keith deserved a Norris nomination last season.

[BeeRYCE 2]

Lidstrom, Chara, Bouwmeester, Kaberle, Phaneuf, Rafalski, Markov, Niedermayer, Pronger, Weber, Green... I think are all equal or better than Keith, yeah some did have off seasons in 08/09, but it's just an off season, they are still the same players. By the end of next season, Doughty, Hedman, Burns, Bogosian, Erik and Jack Johnson are some players who could fit that category as well. Keith may be the best all around d-man on his team, but he certainly doesn't fit NHL's top 3 status.

[eva unit zero 271]

Lidstrom, Chara, Bouwmeester, Kaberle, Phaneuf, Rafalski, Markov, Niedermayer, Pronger, Weber, Green... I think are all equal or better than Keith, yeah some did have off seasons in 08/09, but it's just an off season, they are still the same players. By the end of next season, Doughty, Hedman, Burns, Bogosian, Erik and Jack Johnson are some players who could fit that category as well. Keith may be the best all around d-man on his team, but he certainly doesn't fit NHL's top 3 status.

How I would rank the NHL's top 15 defensemen, based on last season, is:

1) Lidstrom

2) Keith

3) Chara

4) Niedermayer

5) Weber

6) Boyle

7) Zubov

8) Markov

9) Bouwmeester

10) Wideman

11) Phaneuf

12) Green

13) Pronger

14) Rafalski

15) Kaberle

The thing is, Keith is an extremely solid defensive defenseman with offensive skill, and he has a physical game. Admittedly, he's not perfect, but IMHO he outplayed the rest of these guys (sans Nick) and most of these guys either have yet to reach the level Keith displayed or have been below it and declining for years now. A healthy Zubov, Niedermayer, or Pronger who was in prime form would have beaten Keith out. Chara is the only defenseman on the list who really challenged Keith for the second slot, and his tendency to just happen to pick up points when he did very little to actually produce the offensive play was a disadvantage when compared to Keith, who is a major factor in a lot of Chicago's offensive rushes and their power play setup. Chara is an excellent defensive defenseman, but he's not that much better defensively than Keith to offset the offensive advantage that Keith holds.

[BeeRYCE 2]

How I would rank the NHL's top 15 defensemen, based on last season, is:

1) Lidstrom

2) Keith

3) Chara

4) Niedermayer

5) Weber

6) Boyle

7) Zubov

8) Markov

9) Bouwmeester

10) Wideman

11) Phaneuf

12) Green

13) Pronger

14) Rafalski

15) Kaberle

The thing is, Keith is an extremely solid defensive defenseman with offensive skill, and he has a physical game. Admittedly, he's not perfect, but IMHO he outplayed the rest of these guys (sans Nick) and most of these guys either have yet to reach the level Keith displayed or have been below it and declining for years now. A healthy Zubov, Niedermayer, or Pronger who was in prime form would have beaten Keith out. Chara is the only defenseman on the list who really challenged Keith for the second slot, and his tendency to just happen to pick up points when he did very little to actually produce the offensive play was a disadvantage when compared to Keith, who is a major factor in a lot of Chicago's offensive rushes and their power play setup. Chara is an excellent defensive defenseman, but he's not that much better defensively than Keith to offset the offensive advantage that Keith holds.

Not to say points matter, but from a defenseman standpoint, they do at least a little... But Keith was ranked 20th for points by all defensemen... Mind you, I'm not disregarding his amazing +33, but the fact that he was beat out by 19 other defensemen in total points should give him a slight downgrade in the offensive defensemen department.

[BeeRYCE 2]

But mind you... I like Keith, and if Lidstrom retired and we had to make a bold move to get a replacement... I'd take him over a lot of players.

[chrisdetroit 189]

How I would rank the NHL's top 15 defensemen, based on last season, is:

1) Lidstrom

2) Keith

3) Chara

4) Niedermayer

5) Weber

6) Boyle

7) Zubov

8) Markov

9) Bouwmeester

10) Wideman

11) Phaneuf

12) Green

13) Pronger

14) Rafalski

15) Kaberle

The thing is, Keith is an extremely solid defensive defenseman with offensive skill, and he has a physical game. Admittedly, he's not perfect, but IMHO he outplayed the rest of these guys (sans Nick) and most of these guys either have yet to reach the level Keith displayed or have been below it and declining for years now. A healthy Zubov, Niedermayer, or Pronger who was in prime form would have beaten Keith out. Chara is the only defenseman on the list who really challenged Keith for the second slot, and his tendency to just happen to pick up points when he did very little to actually produce the offensive play was a disadvantage when compared to Keith, who is a major factor in a lot of Chicago's offensive rushes and their power play setup. Chara is an excellent defensive defenseman, but he's not that much better defensively than Keith to offset the offensive advantage that Keith holds.

2nd best D-men in the league? You are not serious.

[chrisdetroit 189]

2nd best D-men in the league? You are not serious.

[ilmickeyli 40]

Keith is not #2 d-man in NHL.. MAYBE in top 5 (4-5 spot)

[Doc Holiday 0]

Eva you crazy.

[mmamolo 287]

Completely agree with you. Hawks have a dilemma, do you give Keith the money next year, or Seabrook the following year. Face it, they are stuck with Campbell.

The Hawks have a very serious problem heading into summer 2010. Upcoming RFAs:

Patrick Kane

Jonathan Toews

Andrew Ladd

Ben Eager

Colin Fraser

Duncan Keith

Niklas Hjalmarsson

Antii Niemi

Upcoming UFAs:

John Madden

Adam Burrish

Aaron Johnson

The Hawks have over $42M committed already to signed players (12) which leaves them with just over $14M in cap space. Andrew Ladd already makes $1.55M and will also want a raise. There is absolutely no chance the Hawks can bring back all of their big name unsigned players.

Even if, for argument sake, that Kane and Toews would take a modest $4.5M/yr deal (which most likely it will cost them more) that leaves them with $5M to sign Ladd, Eager, Keith etc. Not to mention they'd still have to fill out the rest of their 22/23 man roster.

I really think we might see a mass exodus of players from Chicago next summer. As some ppl have mentioned in this thread, summer of 2011 sees Brent Seabrook also become a UFA. Personally, I just can't see Chicago parting with either of Kane or Toews. I think Keith and Ladd are gone almost for sure.

[BeeRYCE 2]

The Hawks have a very serious problem heading into summer 2010. Upcoming RFAs:

Patrick Kane

Jonathan Toews

Andrew Ladd

Ben Eager

Colin Fraser

Duncan Keith

Niklas Hjalmarsson

Antii Niemi

Upcoming UFAs:

John Madden

Adam Burrish

Aaron Johnson

The Hawks have over $42M committed already to signed players (12) which leaves them with just over $14M in cap space. Andrew Ladd already makes $1.55M and will also want a raise. There is absolutely no chance the Hawks can bring back all of their big name unsigned players.

Even if, for argument sake, that Kane and Toews would take a modest $4.5M/yr deal (which most likely it will cost them more) that leaves them with $5M to sign Ladd, Eager, Keith etc. Not to mention they'd still have to fill out the rest of their 22/23 man roster.

I really think we might see a mass exodus of players from Chicago next summer. As some ppl have mentioned in this thread, summer of 2011 sees Brent Seabrook also become a UFA. Personally, I just can't see Chicago parting with either of Kane or Toews. I think Keith and Ladd are gone almost for sure.

They'll work through it, if it means worry about Kane and Toews, and forget about the rest... It'll still be no harm done, IMO.

[Mitchmac33 103]

Kane will be the one to go. If the hawks don't trade kane this year they won't resign him, IMO. The Hawks alum does not like kane and say he's on the trading block. But that doesn't mean too much really, all in all i think kane is the one to go.

[titanium2 867]

The Hawks alum does not like kane and say he's on the trading block.

Where did you hear that?

[eva unit zero 271]

2nd best D-men in the league? You are not serious.

Discussion followed up here:

http://www.letsgowings.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=60394

Edited August 13, 2009 by eva unit zero

[Doggy 130]

Kane will be the one to go. If the hawks don't trade kane this year they won't resign him, IMO. The Hawks alum does not like kane and say he's on the trading block. But that doesn't mean too much really, all in all i think kane is the one to go.

......what?