Bobby Hull

[StevieY'sguy 1]

I was just chewing on some numbers and I've decided that i think Bobby Hull is vastly underappreciated in hockey history. I know he was a jerk and that got his due back in the day as one of the premier stars of the 1960s but as often happens with the stars of a by-gone era, his significance has diminished as players have surpassed his statistical totals. 610 NHL goals is nothing to be ashamed of and is still one of the best totals in NHL history, but i think there is an outside chance that he could have reached the total of 800 goals.

- Hull finished with 610 NHL goals but left the league at the age of 33 and played 6 full seasons in the WHA. In the WHA he tallied 303 goals in 411 games, scored over 50 in 4 of those 6 seasons including an eye popping 77 goals in 78 games in 1974-1975. His career goals per game in the WHA was .737...the WHA was not on par with the NHL in competition but was not all that far off so even if you give Hull half of that GPG average had he played in the NHL during those years he would have ended up around 750 goals (and to be honest cutting the GPG in half is being more than generous because he was still on top of his game...he scored 50 goals in his last NHL season). Had he reached around those numbers he probably would have stuck around long enough to muster 800, which would have put him much higher up in the legacy category in my opinion. A similar case can be made for Mr. Hockey, he had 154 goals in his WHA years and finished with 802 in the NHL so it is very feasable he could have possibly reached 900 goals

[GMRwings1983 8,804]

I've always thought so as well.

He isn't unappreciated, though. Personally, I have him number 6 on my list of greatest players, and most regard him as the greatest left winger in history.

[thedisappearer 291]

I have always given Orr props.

[egroen 384]

I usually think of Hull as the 5th greatest player ever, and not that far at all behind Mario Lemieux when careers are taken in full context. 800 goals is not unreasonabe to think of.

Probably the greatest goal scorer of all-time. 7 times he led the league in goals, and was top 6 another 6 times... all before he went to the WHA at the age of 33. Just a freak of nature that even without the benefits of modern amenities would probably still be in the running for fastest skater and hardest shot in today's skills competitions.

[Jake Ryan 1]

I have always given Orr props.

Good to see you really pay attention to detail!

Ninja for you!

[Buppy 1,720]

Most people I've seen regard Hull as among the 2nd tier of all-time greats; behind Gretzky, Howe, Orr, and Lemieux. Pretty much right along side Richard, Shore, Sawchuk, Beliveau...

Can hardly call that 'vastly underappreciated'.

[thedisappearer 291]

Probably the greatest goal scorer of all-time.

I struggle to say that about anyone who isn't Mike Bossy, but I agree with your point.

[thedisappearer 291]

Good to see you really pay attention to detail!

Ninja for you!

Life was better without you. Seriously. Please leave.

[StevieY'sguy 1]

I struggle to say that about anyone who isn't Mike Bossy, but I agree with your point.

I agree wholeheartedly, in my mind the player who lost the most by playing in Gretzky's shadow, even more than Stevie Y.

Has some of the most staggering stats in the history of hockey

-10 seasons, 573 goals, and never played past 30

- every season in which he played at least 65 games he never scored less than 51 goals

- highest goals per game average of all time .762

- only player other than wayne to have 5 60 goal seasons and have 9 50 goals seasons

Edited September 24, 2009 by StevieY'sguy

[Drake_Marcus 890]

I think the lesson here is that leaving the NHL to play in another league is a bad idea if you want to be remembered for as long as possible in terms of your statistics (unless you're at the bottom of your productive capacity).

[mjlegend 155]

I think the lesson here is that leaving the NHL to play in another league is a bad idea if you want to be remembered for as long as possible in terms of your statistics (unless you're at the bottom of your productive capacity).

Think it's too late to tell that to Hudler?

[egroen 384]

I agree wholeheartedly, in my mind the player who lost the most by playing in Gretzky's shadow, even more than Stevie Y.

Has some of the most staggering stats in the history of hockey

-10 seasons, 573 goals, and never played past 30

- every season in which he played at least 65 games he never scored less than 51 goals

- highest goals per game average of all time .762

- only player other than wayne to have 5 60 goal seasons and have 9 50 goals seasons

Lemieux's GPG when he first retired was .83; Gretzky was .82 in his first 10 years -- but scoring was much higher in the 80s and I rank all of them behind Hull in goal scoring.

Players who have led the league the most in goals scored:

1. Bobby Hull 7

2. Phil Esposito 6

3. Charlie Conacher 5

3. Gordie Howe 5

3. Maurice Richard 5

3. Wayne Gretzky 5

7. Babe Dye 3

7. Bill Cook 3

7. Mario Lemieux 3

7. Brett Hull 3

7. Teemu Selanne 3

7. Pavel Bure 3

[toby91_ca 620]

Lemieux's GPG when he first retired was .83; Gretzky was .82 in his first 10 years -- but scoring was much higher in the 80s and I rank all of them behind Hull in goal scoring.

Players who have led the league the most in goals scored:

1. Bobby Hull 7

2. Phil Esposito 6

3. Charlie Conacher 5

3. Gordie Howe 5

3. Maurice Richard 5

3. Wayne Gretzky 5

7. Babe Dye 3

7. Bill Cook 3

7. Mario Lemieux 3

7. Brett Hull 3

7. Teemu Selanne 3

7. Pavel Bure 3

How many guys scored 50 or more goals in 9 straight seasons? There's only 1.

Granted, I think Bossy's stats may be a little skewed in that, had he played like 1,400 games, his per game stats would have surely dropped towards the end....the same was I see Lemieux's stats as being a bit skewed ona per game basis.

But still, hard to argue with 9 straight 50 goal seasons and had Gretzky not come along, who knows how many goal scoring titles he would have had. Not only Gretzky, but Gretzky feeding the puck to Kurri, who took 1 or 2 titles as well.

[egroen 384]

How many guys scored 50 or more goals in 9 straight seasons? There's only 1.

Granted, I think Bossy's stats may be a little skewed in that, had he played like 1,400 games, his per game stats would have surely dropped towards the end....the same was I see Lemieux's stats as being a bit skewed ona per game basis.

But still, hard to argue with 9 straight 50 goal seasons and had Gretzky not come along, who knows how many goal scoring titles he would have had. Not only Gretzky, but Gretzky feeding the puck to Kurri, who took 1 or 2 titles as well.

I don't disagree -- Bossy is one of the greatest goal scorers ever.

I just do not consider him as the best.

If there was no Gretzky, Bossy would have had another probable 2, possibly 3, more goal-scoring titles.

[toby91_ca 620]

I don't disagree -- Bossy is one of the greatest goal scorers ever.

I just do not consider him as the best.

If there was no Gretzky, Bossy would have had another probable 2, possibly 3, more goal-scoring titles.

Well, he finished 2nd to Gretzky twice and 2nd to Kurri twice, so I think it's very possible that without Gretzky, Kurri wouldn't have scored nearly as much and Bossy would have 4 more scoring titles.

There is also another year where Bossy scored 51 goals in 67 games. A few guys scored a few more goals than him that year, but had he played a full season, he would have easily finished 2nd behind Gretzky again.

[Jake Ryan 1]

Well, he finished 2nd to Gretzky twice and 2nd to Kurri twice, so I think it's very possible that without Gretzky, Kurri wouldn't have scored nearly as much and Bossy would have 4 more scoring titles.

There is also another year where Bossy scored 51 goals in 67 games. A few guys scored a few more goals than him that year, but had he played a full season, he would have easily finished 2nd behind Gretzky again.

Gretzky, Howe, and Lemieux are the best all around offensive player to ever play hockey. Harvey, Orr, and Lidstrom are the best all around defensive players to ever play the game.

[cusimano_brothers 1,655]

In the mammoth book "Total Hockey", they have a feature where they "Adjust" statistics, because of the difference in decades. Their three criteria used are:

1) Average number of goals per game in an NHL season

2) Length of season played

3) Maximum number of skaters allowed to dress on a team in game.

These are the actual and "Adjusted Goal" totals they have for the following players (NHL games only):

Gretzky 894 779

Howe 801 988

Hull 610 699

[GMRwings1983 8,804]

In the mammoth book "Total Hockey", they have a feature where they "Adjust" statistics, because of the difference in decades. Their three criteria used are:

1) Average number of goals per game in an NHL season

2) Length of season played

3) Maximum number of skaters allowed to dress on a team in game.

These are the actual and "Adjusted Goal" totals they have for the following players (NHL games only):

Gretzky 894 779

Howe 801 988

Hull 610 699

Interesting formula.

If you include icetime in there, you get this:

Gretzky 894 779

Howe 801 988

Hull 610 699

Hudler 52 420

[Guest micah]

I usually think of Hull as the 5th greatest player ever, and not that far at all behind Mario Lemieux when careers are taken in full context. 800 goals is not unreasonabe to think of.

Probably the greatest goal scorer of all-time. 7 times he led the league in goals, and was top 6 another 6 times... all before he went to the WHA at the age of 33. Just a freak of nature that even without the benefits of modern amenities would probably still be in the running for fastest skater and hardest shot in today's skills competitions.

All of this. Not only do I think 800g was possible, I think it was quite likely.

Also, I wish he had sucked, because he seems like a total dick and I'd way rather rag on him than give him props.