a partner for pasha and the mule

[Thunderpriest 8]

I actually thought that Homer has looked rather good so far. He seems to be fully recovered from his injuries and actually looks faster out on the ice. I am of the opinion that Babs needs to keep Datsyuk & Zetterberg together for the full season.

Together, they are greater than their sums apart.

Homer doesn't just park in front of the net either. He digs the puck out of the corners better than just about anyone on the team. We should line the forwards up thusly:

Zetterberg, Datsyuk, Holmstrom

Bertuzzi, Filppula, Franzen

Leino, Williams\Helm, Cleary

Maltby, Draper, Abdelkader\Williams

I think Babs has really hurt the team by separating the Euro Twins.

My 2 cents

[lets go pavel 2]

The HHO is a hard thing to let go of. I know. It's easier to just throw your hand in the air and say "HOMER!!!!" every time he gets crosschecked in the back.

The irony, of course, being that you're the one that seems to have a hard-on for him, spewing your inane, Homer-hating hyperbole every chance you get, while the rest of us are trying to have a reasonable and rational discussion about his performance. Okay, your turn ... tell me again how Homer makes the sky fall ...

[SouthernWingsFan 854]

The HHO is a hard thing to let go of. I know. It's easier to just throw your hand in the air and say "HOMER!!!!" every time he gets crosschecked in the back.

Just so you know, you are the only one who uses that term, so it's you that has a hard time letting that go.

You are either completely ignorant to the fact that everybody in here understands that Holmstorm isn't the player he was years and years ago, or are probably well aware of it by now and you just purposefully ignore that people get this just to continually feed your own ego and arguments which are often so far off the deep end. I'm going to choose the latter.

[Jake Ryan 1]

The irony, of course, being that you're the one that seems to have a hard-on for him, spewing your inane, Homer-hating hyperbole every chance you get, while the rest of us are trying to have a reasonable and rational discussion about his performance. Okay, your turn ... tell me again how Homer makes the sky fall ...

Homer doesn't do anything. That's the problem. Datsyuk and Zetterberg should never have to skate with that guy again.

[SouthernWingsFan 854]

Homer doesn't do anything. That's the problem. Datsyuk and Zetterberg should never have to skate with that guy again.

He scored a goal last game. That kinda means he kinda did something there. So you are incorrect.

You still haven't answered his question about how Holmstrom makes the sky fall. I think we'd all like to know how.

Edited October 5, 2009 by SouthernWingsFan

[Jake Ryan 1]

He scored a goal last game. That kinda means he kinda did something there. So you are incorrect.

You still haven't answered his question about how Holmstrom makes the sky fall. I think we'd all like to know how.

I don't need to answer questions from Mr. Pom Pom. You're only job is to "sis-koom-bah" on here. No reason for you to be involved in any threads like this.

[Carman 387]

He scored a goal last game. That kinda means he kinda did something there. So you are incorrect.

I'm certainly not like Jake Ryan and his rash judgements and don't think we should throw Holmstrom out of the window. But if you are going to give Holmstrom a free pass, because of one goal when he is playing first line minutes is ridiculous. He might have cost Franzen/Datysuk many more scoring chances because of his inability to get to the corners and cycle. Datsyuk has been struggling since the start of last years playoffs, since then he has not been his PPG player self and I believe Holmstrom has some role in that. Datsyuk/Franzen are limited in the offensive zone and need a good fore checker to free up space and help gain possession of the punk. Holmstrom is great in front of the net, but that did no good this weekend except for one instance where that line was able to control the puck after a face off win. Other then that, they've been struggling to put consistent pressure in the offensive zone.

[SouthernWingsFan 854]

I don't need to answer questions from Mr. Pom Pom. You're only job is to "sis-koom-bah" on here. No reason for you to be involved in any threads like this.

Because you can't answer the question and you purposefully dodge anybody's refutes towards your way that will make your arguments and biasedness go down the toilet.

I'm certainly not like Jake Ryan and his rash judgements and don't think we should throw Holmstrom out of the window. But if you are going to give Holmstrom a free pass, because of one goal when he is playing first line minutes is ridiculous. He might have cost Franzen/Datysuk many more scoring chances because of his inability to get to the corners and cycle. Datsyuk has been struggling since the start of last years playoffs, since then he has not been his PPG player self and I believe Holmstrom has some role in that. Datsyuk/Franzen are limited in the offensive zone and need a good fore checker to free up space and help gain possession of the punk. Holmstrom is great in front of the net, but that did no good this weekend except for one instance where that line was able to control the puck after a face off win. Other then that, they've been struggling to put consistent pressure in the offensive zone.

Did I say anything about a free pass? If there are other options that would better the first line and Holmstrom isn't the guy, I'm all for the ideas.

I just get a kick out of when people just have such a disliking of whichever people there are, it doesn't matter who it is. It just always makes me curious as to how somebody can dislike a certain person so much beyond obsession. And Jake Ryan's posts are easy and fun to pick apart.

[Jake Ryan 1]

Because you can't answer the question and you purposefully dodge anybody's refutes towards your way that will make your arguments and biasedness go down the toilet.

Did I say anything about a free pass? If there are other options that would better the first line and Holmstrom isn't the guy, I'm all for the ideas.

I just get a kick out of when people just have such a disliking of whichever people there are, it doesn't matter who it is. It just always makes me curious as to how somebody can dislike a certain person so much beyond obsession. And Jake Ryan's posts are easy and fun to pick apart.

I don't dodge you at all. The guy has scored one goal and is a ZERO for plus/minus. You think he deserves the Pearson award for it. I think he's performing miserably, considering the players he gets to play with. I have put up many solid argument to every HHO'er's "refutes" on here. All you have to do is go onto NHL.com and look at Holmstrom's statistics. The only other argument is to say that Datsyuk and Franzen are playing horribly and holding Holmstrom back. The HHO is tough to get rid of I guess. Babcock can't even let his go, so I'm not going to blame you too much for not letting yours go. But you should.

[SouthernWingsFan 854]

I don't dodge you at all. The guy has scored one goal and is a ZERO for plus/minus. You think he deserves the Pearson award for it. I think he's performing miserably, considering the players he gets to play with. I have put up many solid argument to every HHO'er's "refutes" on here. All you have to do is go onto NHL.com and look at Holmstrom's statistics. The only other argument is to say that Datsyuk and Franzen are playing horribly and holding Holmstrom back. The HHO is tough to get rid of I guess. Babcock can't even let his go, so I'm not going to blame you too much for not letting yours go. But you should.

Silly man, I never said he deserves a Pearson. That's just you putting words in my mouth incorrectly. And you did dodge one of my posts earlier, so you are incorrect with that as well.

And again, seems like you are the only one that has a thing with Holmstrom since you are the only one that uses this phrase, not everybody else.

[lets go pavel 2]

I'm certainly not like Jake Ryan and his rash judgements and don't think we should throw Holmstrom out of the window. But if you are going to give Holmstrom a free pass, because of one goal when he is playing first line minutes is ridiculous. He might have cost Franzen/Datysuk many more scoring chances because of his inability to get to the corners and cycle. Datsyuk has been struggling since the start of last years playoffs, since then he has not been his PPG player self and I believe Holmstrom has some role in that. Datsyuk/Franzen are limited in the offensive zone and need a good fore checker to free up space and help gain possession of the punk. Holmstrom is great in front of the net, but that did no good this weekend except for one instance where that line was able to control the puck after a face off win. Other then that, they've been struggling to put consistent pressure in the offensive zone.

Homer has lost a step, no doubt. At the same time, it has only been 2 games, and a lot of our players haven't looked too great. Last year was a rough year for Homer, but he was pretty banged up for most of the year, so it's hard to say whether his struggles were due to injury or time catching up with him. I think it's worth giving him a few more games to see what happens.

I also question whether he'd be of any value on the 3rd or 4th line. In theory those are our defense/energy/grinding lines, which are pretty much the 3 attributes most folks are claiming Homer doesn't have any more. I think he almost has to play on a top line given what his contributions are ...

[Carman 387]

Homer has lost a step, no doubt. At the same time, it has only been 2 games, and a lot of our players haven't looked too great. Last year was a rough year for Homer, but he was pretty banged up for most of the year, so it's hard to say whether his struggles were due to injury or time catching up with him. I think it's worth giving him a few more games to see what happens.

I also question whether he'd be of any value on the 3rd or 4th line. In theory those are our defense/energy/grinding lines, which are pretty much the 3 attributes most folks are claiming Homer doesn't have any more. I think he almost has to play on a top line given what his contributions are ...

I was trying to reserve my judgments until I saw him this season. Last playoffs he was awful, but he did have a pretty bad injuries. It's certainly early, but he is 36 and played a very rugged style of hockey for the past 10 years. He isn't going to look much better then he will at the start of the season, I don't see him improving his foot speed as the season progresses. I'll give him a few more games, and of course it's not just him, but we need our top 2 lines to perform well more then ever before.

And if we have too, a lot of teams double shift their 3 top centers on the 4th line I'm sure Dats/Zetts/Flip can handle an extra 5 shared minutes, Holmstrom could still play on powerplays and some time sparingly throughout the game, but after these first two games seeing him work/skate his heart out, but just not being able to apply the pressure in the offensive zone to really help gain possession of the puck is really hard for me to watch.

[lets go pavel 2]

I was trying to reserve my judgments until I saw him this season. Last playoffs he was awful, but he did have a pretty bad injuries. It's certainly early, but he is 36 and played a very rugged style of hockey for the past 10 years. He isn't going to look much better then he will at the start of the season, I don't see him improving his foot speed as the season progresses. I'll give him a few more games, and of course it's not just him, but we need our top 2 lines to perform well more then ever before.

And if we have too, a lot of teams double shift their 3 top centers on the 4th line I'm sure Dats/Zetts/Flip can handle an extra 5 shared minutes, Holmstrom could still play on powerplays and some time sparingly throughout the game, but after these first two games seeing him work/skate his heart out, but just not being able to apply the pressure in the offensive zone to really help gain possession of the puck is really hard for me to watch.

I agree, but I don't know that we want to double-shift Dats, Z, or Flip ... anyone really. Given the long runs the last 2 years and the Olympics later this year, anything we can do to keep our top guys fresh should be a priority, and that means regularly rolling 4 lines. I'm really hoping it's just rust , and he'll get his legs here soon ...

[Carman 387]

I agree, but I don't know that we want to double-shift Dats, Z, or Flip ... anyone really. Given the long runs the last 2 years and the Olympics later this year, anything we can do to keep our top guys fresh should be a priority, and that means regularly rolling 4 lines. I'm really hoping it's just rust , and he'll get his legs here soon ...

True enough, it's going to be a tough season given how much hockey we have played. I really don't see a lot of moves Babcock can do, 2nd and 3rd lines are doing well, and I don't think you can reasonably say draper/eaves/abby/maltby/helm are first liners, so it's going to be interesting to see what he does to start getting our first line to start producing.

[FedorovMan91 1]

One should happen is Homer has to move out from the 1st line. He has been very good for us for long time but as the last season, his slump does not seem to be over with consideration of his age. I still like he being the first power play unit but other than that, no value to be on the first line.

[13dangledangle 965]

Zetterberg•Dats•Bertuzzi

Leino•Flip•Franzen

Cleary•Helm•Williams

May•Draper•Eaves/Abby

I like it

[Jake Ryan 1]

Now this is some intelligent discussion. Clearly two people without HHO's. Nice to see.

[blankrap 9]

Your washed up boy Homer has more points than Datsyuk does right now, and more goals than Franzen.

I would like to see Homer Dats and Zetterberg back together

Franzen Filppulla Leino

Williams Cleary Bertuzzi

Whoever is the flavor of the week on the fourth line

It is game two. Show me proof of home doing anything like this:

Or this:

No one in the league has the ability that dats has to make people miss and look stupid.

Theory: Dats could be on a line by himself.

Not taking away from homer or the mule though, they both hold keys to the redwings winning. They just are not as important as dats and zetts.

[Jake Ryan 1]

It is game two. Show me proof of home doing anything like this:

Or this:

No one in the league has the ability that dats has to make people miss and look stupid.

Theory: Dats could be on a line by himself.

Not taking away from homer or the mule though, they both hold keys to the redwings winning. They just are not as important as dats and zetts.

You forgot about Holmstrom's toughness. Come on. Look at the way he intimidates the opponent:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Id2iEs9nYg0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NGqjSZnkk88...feature=related

God, what I wouldn't give to have a healthy Kocur in his prime in Holmstrom's spot. Holmstrom's best attribute right now is cross-check to the back ability. It's not anything anyone else in hockey values, but for some reason Babcock and his legion of HHO'ers value it. Unreal.

[blankrap 9]

You forgot about Holmstrom's toughness. Come on. Look at the way he intimidates the opponent:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Id2iEs9nYg0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NGqjSZnkk88...feature=related

God, what I wouldn't give to have a healthy Kocur in his prime in Holmstrom's spot. Holmstrom's best attribute right now is cross-check to the back ability. It's not anything anyone else in hockey values, but for some reason Babcock and his legion of HHO'ers value it. Unreal.

I didn't forget about homers toughness... I just prefer dats ability to handle the puck. I think the team works well together and wouldn't change much. I was just replying to the previous post about homer having more points than dats. Silly.

[AtomicPunk 296]

Now this is some intelligent discussion. Clearly two people without HHO's. Nice to see.

Dude, you are really trying to have "Your" term HHO catch on, aren't you?

This team has much bigger issues. Stop the myopia. (it's ok if you look that up).

[chrisdetroit 189]

I think Bert should be on the first line with Dats because he's big and tough...

[dropkickshanahans 463]

What the hell is HHO?

[rage 24]

By working, do you mean working us right out of a Stanley Cup and 2 games in Sweden? It's not hard to tell which player doesn't belong on the first 3 lines of the DETROIT RED WINGS. Tomas Holmstrom is old, slow, ineffective, and EXPENSIVE. I was starting to think that Mike Babcock was a good coach, but seeing him handle the Holmstrom Issue has changed that opinion for me. This is a no-brainer. Holmstrom OFF the first line. Helm ON. What have the Red Wings got to lose except more games and seeding in the playoffs? That's right, HHO'ers. We LOST last year. And we're LOSING this year. The Red Wings have a PROBLEM. It's TOMAS HOLMSTROM. How long can the HHO'ers fool themselves?

:rotflmao:

Wow. Helm on the first line. Wow.

I can see your reasoning for taking Homer off the first line, but HELM on the FIRST LINE??

Maybe Bertuzzi or Zetterberg or Cleary.

Hell I'd put Flip on the first line w/ Dats before I would Helm.

Just my opinion. I respect yours too, even though it made me laugh!

[Jake Ryan 1]

What the hell is HHO?

The Holmstrom Hard On. It's a common condition around these parts. People glorify a player who is clearly crappy as of today because of services performed in the past. No matter how bad Ninety-Sux stinks up the ice (see 2009 playoffs), people will still call out for him to play with the Red Wings' top players and yell "Homer" as if he's next of kin. The Holmstrom Hard On is almost impossible to get rid of for many around here. Babcock can't get rid of his, so I'm starting to think there may not be a cure.