"A King's Ransom" Gretzky Show

[StevieY'sguy 1]

I watched both airings of this very in depth look at the trade of Gretzky to the LA Kings and found it very compelling. Coming away from it i am even more critical of the decision by Oilers owner Peter Pocklington than i was originally. From his interviews during the program he comes off as an old man who still has his nose stuck up in the air that he made the right decision. Gretzky admits that Pocklington trying to trade him away originally behind his back fueled his anger enough to OK the trade.

There are many winners and losers when it comes to this trade,

- Peter Pocklington lost big time, the Oilers did win a Cup in '90 but he still is now and may forever be; the most hated man in Edmonton sports history.

- NHL from a business perspective are big winners, Gretzky helped sell the game like no other before or since, 9 new NHL franchises have been added since the trade, many in non-traditional hockey markets which no doubt can be credited in part to Gretzky's influence.

-Wayne Gretzky's career lost out, he went to a crappy team and never really had an above average team around him during his time in LA which definitely effected his productivity

-Wayne Gretzky's celebrity and bank account won big time, as being in a bigger market got him many more endorsements, etc. He also got to be chummy with A list stars which definitely raised his celebrity and ego

- The Edmonton Oilers i would say lost this trade; anytime you're called a loser in a trade that leaves you with another Cup in hand just tells you the significance of this deal. Having probably the greatest offensive lineup of all time along with a HOF goalie and trading away the crown jewel cost Edmonton at least 2-3 more Cups in my opinion. Gretzky was not a two way player but in Edmonton he had enough talent around him to be on the ice and operate at a great surplus despite all of his defensive shortcomings, which was really the only team in the league that he could operate at such a clip do to their pure offensive dominance....

-NHL purists i say lost out big time, one of the NHL's greatest dynasties lost it's main cog and robbed many fans of a chance to see a 10 year period in which arguably the most offensively dominant hockey team ever had a chance to win 7-8 Stanley Cups, which would have been something that almost certainly would never happen again due to an array of factors. The stars aligned just right for Edmonton and in my opnion Peter Pocklington jumped ship much too early and cost his team many more successes

Coming away from this movie little has changed in my opinion of Gretzky, I do not think he is a "bad guy" but he does have a bit of an ego issue which is understandable given his successes. He was very subpar in most non-offensive aspects of the game and i cringe when he is called the greatest hockey player of all time (Bobby Orr IMO), he was certainly the greatest scorer of all time but not the greatest player, but i don't fault him for this praise as much of this is media driven.

All in all i think he left his heart in Edmonton and i think it's a shame he didn't get to spend his entire career there.

[T.Low 1,011]

Listenned to an interview on Vancouver's Team 1040 today, and they said it was fairly accurate but did not agree with the way the film portrayed the Oiler's owner, or how he felt about the trade.

He felt there was no way he could resign Gretzky the following year; he would surely get out bid and lose Gretzky and it really wore on him. It was a tuff decision, but he didn't see any other way.

[drwscc 212]

Plus, Gretzky himself says, now that he's on the other side of the table, that he completely understands why Pocklington did what he did.

[T.Low 1,011]

Plus, Gretzky himself says, now that he's on the other side of the table, that he completely understands why Pocklington did what he did.

And talk about making Chicken Salad out of Chicken s***, the owner still brought home another Cup after the Gretzky trade. What more proof could there be?

It may not have been the best thing for Wayne's career, but my boss is always doing stupid s*** that isn't the best thing for my career. The fact remains, if you don't work for yourself, you are not in charge of your own destiny. He should have owned his own team back then and been self employed.

[Nev 1,085]

- NHL from a business perspective are big winners, Gretzky helped sell the game like no other before or since, 9 new NHL franchises have been added since the trade, many in non-traditional hockey markets which no doubt can be credited in part to Gretzky's influence.

Yes and no. Whilst Gretzky was in Edmonton and being paid a (comparitive) pittance, he acted as an unofficial salary cap. Every GM in the league could tell a player looking for a big contract "What, you think you're worth more than Wayne Gretzky?" That ended when he went to LA, and ultimately, by a long and tortuous route, ended in the last lockout.

[Guest CaliWingsNut]

So in this thread gretzky has been praised for the expansion of the NHL, and for the creation of the salary cap.... hmm...

Just an FYI... he had nothing to do with those.

Please don't try and justify him playing for LA as a reason for team expansions... he was a player.

It's not like he ******* started a team or something, or risked millions of dollars on the success of one (keep in mind his salary in Phoenix).

This thing is just a publicity stunt cause he's outta "work" and wants another fat paycheck (like Bettman isn't gonna lube up and find one for him; "What Wayne wants he gets", think of his puppy dog face saying it.).

[Jake Ryan 1]

Pocklington was a genius for getting rid of all his stars the second they turned primadonna. The oilers had a dynasty for a decade, and then hockey changed. It went from free-for-all, 4" wide goalie pads with stand-up goalies to tight, defensive minded, and butterfly goalies with huge pads. Gretzky in his prime would not do well in today's NHL. I'm thoroughly convinced of that. Watch Gretzky's highlight videos. He is clearly playing in a different era of hockey. The goals come much easier and in a much sloppier fashion.

[StevieY'sguy 1]

So in this thread gretzky has been praised for the expansion of the NHL, and for the creation of the salary cap.... hmm...

Just an FYI... he had nothing to do with those.

Please don't try and justify him playing for LA as a reason for team expansions... he was a player.

It's not like he ******* started a team or something, or risked millions of dollars on the success of one (keep in mind his salary in Phoenix).

This thing is just a publicity stunt cause he's outta "work" and wants another fat paycheck (like Bettman isn't gonna lube up and find one for him; "What Wayne wants he gets", think of his puppy dog face saying it.).

Quit being ignorant, Gretzky helped popularize the game like no other during his career, especially once he got to LA he is the SINGLE BIGGEST reason hockey expanded to warm weather climates...when he was traded, Los Angeles was the ONLY NHL team in a warm weather climate. After seeing how the Kings went from struggling attendance to filling their arena, and proving that hockey could indeed catch on in a non-traditional market, this spurred the NHL to allow more and more teams in such markets.

As far as the movie being a publicity stunt because he's "outta work"....he resigned just last week so they sure threw this movie together pretty quick....

[StevieY'sguy 1]

Pocklington was a genius for getting rid of all his stars the second they turned primadonna. The oilers had a dynasty for a decade, and then hockey changed. It went from free-for-all, 4" wide goalie pads with stand-up goalies to tight, defensive minded, and butterfly goalies with huge pads. Gretzky in his prime would not do well in today's NHL. I'm thoroughly convinced of that. Watch Gretzky's highlight videos. He is clearly playing in a different era of hockey. The goals come much easier and in a much sloppier fashion.

Yea good call man, who else were big stars in the 80s? Lemieux, Messier, Hull, Yzerman...and we saw how they all struggled in this newer era of hockey ......Gretzky may not score 92 goals or put up 215 points but anyone who won 9 MVPs at during any era in hockey would definitely at least excel in another era that was only 20 years later, don't be an idiot

[Jake Ryan 1]

Quit being ignorant, Gretzky helped popularize the game like no other during his career, especially once he got to LA he is the SINGLE BIGGEST reason hockey expanded to warm weather climates...when he was traded, Los Angeles was the ONLY NHL team in a warm weather climate. After seeing how the Kings went from struggling attendance to filling their arena, and proving that hockey could indeed catch on in a non-traditional market, this spurred the NHL to allow more and more teams in such markets.

As far as the movie being a publicity stunt because he's "outta work"....he resigned just last week so they sure threw this movie together pretty quick....

I don't think you need to defend this argument, bro. The number 99 is retired throughout the entire league! What other athlete has ever had their number retired from the entire league? Gretzky did more for hockey than anyone else has ever done for hockey. Whether Pocklington and other NHL brass had a hand in that success is beyond what I've seen so far. Perhaps they all were part of a play, and Gretzky was the lead actor with Pocklington and some others directing. That could very well be. Either way, I'm glad they did what they did. Hockey is awesome.

[StevieY9802 6]

Quit being ignorant, Gretzky helped popularize the game like no other during his career, especially once he got to LA he is the SINGLE BIGGEST reason hockey expanded to warm weather climates...when he was traded, Los Angeles was the ONLY NHL team in a warm weather climate. After seeing how the Kings went from struggling attendance to filling their arena, and proving that hockey could indeed catch on in a non-traditional market, this spurred the NHL to allow more and more teams in such markets.

As far as the movie being a publicity stunt because he's "outta work"....he resigned just last week so they sure threw this movie together pretty quick....

The last part is what I was gonna say. The day he resigned ESPN showed a clip of this. Those SOB's can put these things together quick can't they?

Now I think the NHL should have expanded and he showed what a great player and winning can do. but I think they expanded too quick. I think they should have let some teams take hold and see how they could do without a Gretzky on their teams. The early 90's expansion was all warm climate. one in fla and just one more in Cali to start should have been what happened. Just my opinion.

[Guest CaliWingsNut]

Quit being ignorant, Gretzky helped popularize the game like no other during his career, especially once he got to LA he is the SINGLE BIGGEST reason hockey expanded to warm weather climates...when he was traded, Los Angeles was the ONLY NHL team in a warm weather climate. After seeing how the Kings went from struggling attendance to filling their arena, and proving that hockey could indeed catch on in a non-traditional market, this spurred the NHL to allow more and more teams in such markets.

As far as the movie being a publicity stunt because he's "outta work"....he resigned just last week so they sure threw this movie together pretty quick....

He resigned last week. Yeah it was a real shocker that would happen. He's been outta work (as a coach) since the end of last years regular season.

It was 0 surprise to me he was in a conflict of interest (it was blatently obvious if you thought about it, silent owner + coach). The only reason he was around was for the lawsuits, his financial interests in Phoenix, and to keep the job if he could.

So they had somewhere roughly around 4-5 months to make it. Not so instant now, eh?

Advertising for new markets does not equal new markets... you can see what wonders he's done in Phoenix.

[Guest CaliWingsNut]

I don't think you need to defend this argument, bro. The number 99 is retired throughout the entire league! What other athlete has ever had their number retired from the entire league? Gretzky did more for hockey than anyone else has ever done for hockey. Whether Pocklington and other NHL brass had a hand in that success is beyond what I've seen so far. Perhaps they all were part of a play, and Gretzky was the lead actor with Pocklington and some others directing. That could very well be. Either way, I'm glad they did what they did. Hockey is awesome.

Bulls***.

No. 9 is still making headlines talking and being involved at his age. I'll maybe give you he's done the most anyone has for the sport while playing.

Maybe when Gretzky is remotely close to Howe in age and is still hitting up the games and talking with players you can think about that one.

For the record, I don't hate Gretzky. He was an amazing player.

It's a more of a what have you done recently type mentality. All I see is a fat man coaching a team that's lost 300mil the last two years in a row, peddling crap re-branded wine to people who'll buy anything with his name on it.

[toby91_ca 620]

Bulls***.

No. 9 is still making headlines talking and being involved at his age. I'll maybe give you he's done the most anyone has for the sport while playing.

Maybe when Gretzky is remotely close to Howe in age and is still hitting up the games and talking with players you can think about that one.

For the record, I don't hate Gretzky. He was an amazing player.

It's a more of a what have you done recently type mentality. All I see is a fat man coaching a team that's lost 300mil the last two years in a row, peddling crap re-branded wine to people who'll buy anything with his name on it.

You should ask Mr. Howe, I'm sure he'd fill you in on how much Gretzky has done for the game.

[Guest CaliWingsNut]

You should ask Mr. Howe, I'm sure he'd fill you in on how much Gretzky has done for the game.

LOL. How true, but you could say that about most players & Howe...

It's a little like asking Steve Y who the most influential player on the wings was in the 90's... he'd list everyone but himself.

[KATIEBARTHEDOOR24 426]

I don't think you need to defend this argument, bro. The number 99 is retired throughout the entire league! What other athlete has ever had their number retired from the entire league? Gretzky did more for hockey than anyone else has ever done for hockey. Whether Pocklington and other NHL brass had a hand in that success is beyond what I've seen so far. Perhaps they all were part of a play, and Gretzky was the lead actor with Pocklington and some others directing. That could very well be. Either way, I'm glad they did what they did. Hockey is awesome.

Jackie Robinson

[Jake Ryan 1]

Jackie Robinson

Good catch. I didn't know that! But that's reinforces my point.

[Guest CaliWingsNut]

Good catch. I didn't know that! But that's reinforces my point.

NVM... misread something.

However how does a black man playing baseball have any comparison to Gretzky? Jackie Robinson was part of a NATIONAL race movement.

Edited October 7, 2009 by CaliWingsNut

[Jake Ryan 1]

Hrm... A special baseball player having his number retired in hockey reinforces your point that Gretzky was special to hockey?

Yes. If two players have had their numbers retired by their respective leauges, and one of them is Jackie Robinson, then the other must have done something remarkablel too. It's not that hard to make that connection.

[Heroes of Hockeytown 694]

Gretzky in his prime would not do well in today's NHL. I'm thoroughly convinced of that. Watch Gretzky's highlight videos. He is clearly playing in a different era of hockey. The goals come much easier and in a much sloppier fashion.

Even in 1998, his second to last season in the NHL, with a bad back that had hampered him for years, he still finished T-3rd in the NHL in scoring (and a point behind second place). This was right in the middle of the dead puck era where you were lucky to get more than one guy to finish with 100 points in a season. The guy could flat out play.

[Jake Ryan 1]

Even in 1998, his second to last season in the NHL, with a bad back that had hampered him for years, he still finished T-3rd in the NHL in scoring (and a point behind second place). This was right in the middle of the dead puck era where you were lucky to get more than one guy to finish with 100 points in a season. The guy could flat out play.

I should have said "as well". I apologize. He wasn't a slouch. You're correct there. He was a minus 25 or something like that though. He definitely wasn't as effective.

[lomekian 201]

All this anti-gretzky revisionism is madness. So he's a poor coach...most genius players in most sports don't make fantastic coaches. When you see things others don't, its hard to communicate how to see them...cf Maradona, Bradman etc.

Gretzky is the best ever offensive hockey player. While the league was not as tough, he still put up stupid point totals compared to his contemporaries. His number has been retired, he is referred to as 'the great one', and almost every player of a certain age idolised him. His impact can't be underestimated. He was the first and arguably only global ice hockey star. I didn't even know Ice-hcokey existed as a sport until I'd heard of Gretzky as a young kid. Growing up across the atlantic ocean. I imagine more people globally have heard of him than every other nhl player past and present put together. In US sports, probably only Michael Jordan, Magic Johnson, Joe Dimaggio, Ali, and maybe someone like Joe Montana are more famous globally. Until he is surpassed he is the Pele, Muhammed Ali, Don Bradman, Federer etc of Ice Hockey. People may argue if he was the best ever, but you never say definitely that he definitely wasn't, and internationally there is no comparison.

Plus he was a wierd funky name like Yzerman that when you first see it feel shouldn't exist in the english language.....

[Lidstrom for life 20]

Evgeni Malkin won the scoring title last year with 113 points. In 85-86 Gretzky had 163 ASSISTS. Not to mention his 52 goals. I don't care how much the game has changed, thats freaking mind blowing. Hell even if there were no goalies in the NHL at the time that would be impressive. Also last year Malkin was a +17, in 85-86 Gretzky was +71, the year before he was +98!!! NINETY FREAKING EIGHT!!!!!

[Jake Ryan 1]

Evgeni Malkin won the scoring title last year with 113 points. In 85-86 Gretzky had 163 ASSISTS. Not to mention his 52 goals. I don't care how much the game has changed, thats freaking mind blowing. Hell even if there were no goalies in the NHL at the time that would be impressive. Also last year Malkin was a +17, in 85-86 Gretzky was +71, the year before he was +98!!! NINETY FREAKING EIGHT!!!!!

Larry Robinson was a +121 at one point in his career.

[toby91_ca 620]

Larry Robinson was a +121 at one point in his career.

Robinson's best was +120, Orr's best was +124 (record), but Robinson is by the far the all-time leader:

Robinson +730

Orr +597

Bourque +528

Gretzky +518

Clarke +506