some negative stats

[FunkedUp 29]

+/-

Kirk Maltby 3

Nicklas Lidstrom 2

Brian Rafalski 1

Kris Draper 1

Johan Franzen 0

Justin Abdelkader 0

Tomas Holmstrom -1

Darren Helm -1

Patrick Eaves -1

Henrik Zetterberg -2

Pavel Datsyuk -2

Derek Meech -2

Brad Stuart -2

Brad May -2

Daniel Cleary -3

Valtteri Filppula -3

Niklas Kronwall -3

Ville Leino -3

Todd Bertuzzi -4

Brett Lebda -4

Jason Williams -5

Jonathan Ericsson -6

Yuck, I don't remember seeing anything this awful in a while.

[Carman 387]

We have no one in the top 50 for points.

We have one forward with more the 2 goals.

We have 3.33 GAA which is 26th.

We have 2.78 GF which is 18th.

Our PP is 11th(), PK is 20th.

Our +/- leader is tied for 90th and is a 4th liner.

We have no forward in the top 40 for hits.

Osgood is currently tied for 17th in wins, 39th in GAA, 40th in SV%, and no shut outs.

Pretty much the team has sucked statistically in almost every possible way...

I do find it hard to believe it will keep going this way though.

[under_par_00 45]

When our top players start to produce, we will start to win more games. It's as simple as that.

[CenterIce 83]

+/-

Yuck, I don't remember seeing anything this awful in a while.

Look at the beginning of last year.

[SouthernWingsFan 854]

+/-

Kirk Maltby 3

Nicklas Lidstrom 2

Brian Rafalski 1

Kris Draper 1

Johan Franzen 0

Justin Abdelkader 0

Tomas Holmstrom -1

Darren Helm -1

Patrick Eaves -1

Henrik Zetterberg -2

Pavel Datsyuk -2

Derek Meech -2

Brad Stuart -2

Brad May -2

Daniel Cleary -3

Valtteri Filppula -3

Niklas Kronwall -3

Ville Leino -3

Todd Bertuzzi -4

Brett Lebda -4

Jason Williams -5

Jonathan Ericsson -6

Yuck, I don't remember seeing anything this awful in a while.

Plenty of stats might be unusual or a lack of production for stars or whatever after not even 10 games over and 80+ game season. More time is needed for stuff like this to sort itself out.

[Guest mindfly]

Ericsson is so overrated on this board... he's obviously not ready and only decent when paired with lidström

[NGKEIB 32]

Ericsson is so overrated on this board... he's obviously not ready and only decent when paired with lidström

I agree - when he first came in, he got to play with the best (I would look decent next to Lidström), but a decline was immediately noticeable when he moved down a couple pairings. Do you think that something like this would help:

Lidström-Ericsson/Kronwall

Stuart-Rafalski

Kronwall-Lebda/Stuart/Ericsson

?

[Finnish Wing 110]

I agree - when he first came in, he got to play with the best (I would look decent next to Lidström), but a decline was immediately noticeable when he moved down a couple pairings. Do you think that something like this would help:

Lidström-Ericsson/Kronwall

Stuart-Rafalski

Kronwall-Lebda/Stuart/Ericsson

?

So by playing bad you get more ice time?

[NGKEIB 32]

So by playing badly you get more ice time?

No. You give him a new partner, in the hope that it will get him playing like he did when he first got to the team last year. Also, it wouldn't necessarily be more ice time, it would be ice time with better defenders, so that the team doesn't need to collectively hold their breaths whenever Lebda and Ericsson are out there.

[Miss Wing Queen 154]

Yeah, but I've not been too thrilled with the Stuart/Rafalski pairing either. I'm starting to hold my breath when they're on the ice as well. So basically, I'm without oxygen when 2/3 of our defense is on the ice.

[Z and D for the C 712]

More concerning is the TEAM +/-. 25 goals for, 31 goals against.

[Detroit # 1 Fan 2,204]

Yeah, it's not pretty. How about Maltby though? Making s*** happen

[Drake_Marcus 890]

Ericsson is so overrated on this board... he's obviously not ready and only decent when paired with lidström

Once again you spout off negative bulls*** without knowing the full story.

Ericsson:

-->has the 3rd most points on the entire team.

-->is 1st in defensive points on the team (with Rafalski tied in total points but has fewer goals).

-->is tied for 2nd on the team in goals scored.

-->is tied for 3rd in points for defensive rookies

-->is tied for 2nd in goals for defensive rookies

-->is tied for 9th in points for all rookies

-->is tied for 5th in goals for all rookies

-->is 3rd in hits for defensemen on the Wings

-->is 3rd in blocked shots on the Wings

-->is 5th in give-aways for defensemen on the Wings (6 give-aways in 9 games, next guy is Rafalski with 7)

Yeah, he has the worst +/- but Stuart is -2 and Kronwall is -3. Lebda is -4 in 6 games. Ericsson is a frigging rookie d-man. If you expected him to be among the best on the team in +/- you obviously don't understand what happens when rookie d-men enter the NHL. Your rookie d-man is expected to be last in +/- on the back end. Pair him up with a guy like Lebda who looks like a frigging rookie himself and you should expect a bad pairing. Rookie defensemen need a strong partner to guide them and help minimize the impact of their mistakes as they adjust to the NHL game.

Calling him overrated is retarded. We'll see what his +/- looks like in a few years when he's adjusted to the NHL game. But right now he's leading the defense in points while only playing 16 mins a game. Rafalski plays 23 mins (with Lidstrom), Kronwall plays 22 mins and Nick plays 24.5 mins a night. Ericsson is providing more offense than all of them and he's providing a superior points per minute played.

Right now the Wings are sub-.500. We've won only a THIRD of the games played. If you think a rookie d-man on a team that loses two thirds of the games they play, regardless of how talented he is, is going to have a good +/- you're ridiculous.

Edit: And that last point on the list-- 5th in give-aways means he has the 5th fewest give-aways, not that he's giving the puck away the 2nd most on the back end.

Edited October 25, 2009 by Drake_Marcus

[Buppy 1,720]

I agree - when he first came in, he got to play with the best (I would look decent next to Lidström), but a decline was immediately noticeable when he moved down a couple pairings. Do you think that something like this would help:

Lidström-Ericsson/Kronwall

Stuart-Rafalski

Kronwall-Lebda/Stuart/Ericsson

?

What are you talking about? The only time he played with Lidstrom was the few games when Rafalski was hurt. He was paired with Lebda for the majority of his games, and looked great.

That said, the third pair is terrible right now. Something needs to be done.

[NGKEIB 32]

What are you talking about? The only time he played with Lidstrom was the few games when Rafalski was hurt. He was paired with Lebda for the majority of his games, and looked great.

That said, the third pair is terrible right now. Something needs to be done.

In my opinion, as soon as he was moved down, he started making mistakes and looked less confident. That said, that pair is looking worse now. I think that they should stick him with someone other than Lebda. Chelios would probably have been a better call.

[Drake_Marcus 890]

I agree - when he first came in, he got to play with the best (I would look decent next to Lidström), but a decline was immediately noticeable when he moved down a couple pairings. Do you think that something like this would help:

Lidström-Ericsson/Kronwall

Stuart-Rafalski

Kronwall-Lebda/Stuart/Ericsson

?

I disagree that his playing well with Lidstrom means he's worse than he looked (that only really works if you don't watch the game and see what he does with the puck and how he deals with opposing forwards). Sure Lidstrom would make him look better on the surface, but it's the plays Ericsson made with the puck and the plays he made when a forward with the puck challenged him that made him look great in the playoffs, not his +/-. Lidstrom didn't make Ericsson make better defensive plays, he just helped mask any rookie mistakes he'd make. Rookie mistakes shouldn't be confused with a lack of skill or talent. All rookie defensemen make rookie mistakes-- it's a very, very hard position to play as a rookie. There's a huge leap defensively when you go from the AHL to NHL. Plus it should be noted that Ericsson didn't always play with Lids during the playoffs. He did when Rafalski was hurt, but once Rafi came back he was paired with Lids the majority of the time (though he got switched out at some points when he was playing poorly).

I do like your pairings, though. I like that they minimize the defensive issues and that they give both of the key young d-men a shot at learning directly from Lidstrom.

[Drake_Marcus 890]

In my opinion, as soon as he was moved down, he started making mistakes and looked less confident. That said, that pair is looking worse now. I think that they should stick him with someone other than Lebda. Chelios would probably have been a better call.

You'd be less confident too if you went from playing with the 2nd best defenseman in the history of the NHL to Brett Lebda.

[NGKEIB 32]

You'd be less confident too if you went from playing with the 2nd best defenseman in the history of the NHL to Brett Lebda.

When did Ericsson ever play with Pushor?

Don't get my wrong, I'm not saying that Ericsson is a waste of space/not a good prospect etc. - I just think that everyone would benefit if he was paired with someone not prone to defensive errors and who could cover for him (so basically Lidström or Kronwall, or Stuart if needs be).

[Hack & Whack Rule! 160]

All of these stats, while interesting, only point to a slow start. After two games, which we lost, the numbers were even s***tier. All losses, no wins! OMG! Stats are a great thing to be able to look at, but when we get 20-30 games under our belt, the numbers should make a bit more sense...I'm hoping. I agree that things are looking pretty grim, such as not being able to play hockey for a full 60 minutes. Harping on the stats so early is a waste of energy.

[Guest mindfly]

Drake_Marcus, I just see Ericsson paired with lebda as a major EPIC FAIL.. I think Ericsson would be better off playing with a higher quality D-man

[Pucks 66]

Our problem seems to me that all 3 of our bottom Defenseman Ericsson, Lebda and Meech need to be paired with a stay at home type that plays a safe game. Obviously Lilja would be a good fit, but it just doesn't look like he's ever going to be playing again.

That's the first move I'd make right now if I was Holland. Obviously were not moving Ericsson so get rid of those tiny so called puck movers and get us someone with size who plays with some pugnacity and evil intention's.

[Drake_Marcus 890]

Drake_Marcus, I just see Ericsson paired with lebda as a major EPIC FAIL.. I think Ericsson would be better off playing with a higher quality D-man

I agree, I'm just defending him against your accusation that he's majorly overrated.

[Drake_Marcus 890]

Our problem seems to me that all 3 of our bottom Defenseman Ericsson, Lebda and Meech need to be paired with a stay at home type that plays a safe game. Obviously Lilja would be a good fit, but it just doesn't look like he's ever going to be playing again.

That's the first move I'd make right now if I was Holland. Obviously were not moving Ericsson so get rid of those tiny so called puck movers and get us someone with size who plays with some pugnacity and evil intention's.

The big question mark right now is Lilja. If Holland thinks he'll be ready in the next few months he might stand pat. Otherwise I imagine he'll make a move to pick up a Lilja-like guy to pair with Ericsson. E's obviously got the offensive talent to be the shooter/playmaker on the pairing, so like you said-- we need a stay at home guy to throw in beside Ericsson. Plus, switching the Lebda/Meech spot for another guy who can PK, block shots and hit can only help the Wings. With Ericsson there they don't need a second puck mover on that pairing anyway.

[NGKEIB 32]

Doug Janik anyone?

[gcom007 1,465]

Once again you spout off negative bulls*** without knowing the full story.

Ericsson:

-->has the 3rd most points on the entire team.

-->is 1st in defensive points on the team (with Rafalski tied in total points but has fewer goals).

-->is tied for 2nd on the team in goals scored.

-->is tied for 3rd in points for defensive rookies

-->is tied for 2nd in goals for defensive rookies

-->is tied for 9th in points for all rookies

-->is tied for 5th in goals for all rookies

-->is 3rd in hits for defensemen on the Wings

-->is 3rd in blocked shots on the Wings

-->is 5th in give-aways for defensemen on the Wings (6 give-aways in 9 games, next guy is Rafalski with 7)

Yeah, he has the worst +/- but Stuart is -2 and Kronwall is -3. Lebda is -4 in 6 games. Ericsson is a frigging rookie d-man. If you expected him to be among the best on the team in +/- you obviously don't understand what happens when rookie d-men enter the NHL. Your rookie d-man is expected to be last in +/- on the back end. Pair him up with a guy like Lebda who looks like a frigging rookie himself and you should expect a bad pairing. Rookie defensemen need a strong partner to guide them and help minimize the impact of their mistakes as they adjust to the NHL game.

Calling him overrated is retarded. We'll see what his +/- looks like in a few years when he's adjusted to the NHL game. But right now he's leading the defense in points while only playing 16 mins a game. Rafalski plays 23 mins (with Lidstrom), Kronwall plays 22 mins and Nick plays 24.5 mins a night. Ericsson is providing more offense than all of them and he's providing a superior points per minute played.

Right now the Wings are sub-.500. We've won only a THIRD of the games played. If you think a rookie d-man on a team that loses two thirds of the games they play, regardless of how talented he is, is going to have a good +/- you're ridiculous.

Edit: And that last point on the list-- 5th in give-aways means he has the 5th fewest give-aways, not that he's giving the puck away the 2nd most on the back end.

Preach it.

I love how I was getting bashed all off season whenever I said that we need to manage our expectations with our rookies because, gasp, they're rookies!