Ericsson's growing pains

[Icesurfer 75]

In comparing Ericsson with Kronwall, they both have had very similar starts with the Red Wings. Both played some games at age 23 and age 24 with the Wings (27 or less). In their third year at age 25 they both were given major roles.

However, I do not remember Kronwall having this many "growing pains" and "learning lessons" as Ericsson has been getting this year. Kronwall has always been a PLUS in the plus/minus category. Ericsson by contrast has always been a MINUS. The problem is that Ericsson seems to be making the same mistakes over and over..... especially in terms of coverage. When Kronwall made a mistake he certainly did not repeat it in the next game.

In listening to Ericsson talk about Lidstrom he seems to be trying to mimic what Lidstrom does.... he said as much in his post-game interview after the Rangers game. I am sorry, but there is only one Lidstrom and if anyone tries to copy what he does forget it.

Kronwall plays his own style. He is more aggressive and obviously not afraid to hit. Between the two of them, Kronwall and Ericsson, I would guess that Ericsson should be the one pummeling guys.... he certainly has the body for it... especially around the net where he seems to make the most mistakes.

Is it because Ericsson is given more responsibility???

There is no doubt that Ericsson will be a fine defenceman. However, I don't know if he will ever become close to "Lidstrom" status as predicted by some.

[PavelHossyukstrom 0]

In comparing Ericsson with Kronwall, they both have had very similar starts with the Red Wings. Both played some games at age 23 and age 24 with the Wings (27 or less). In their third year at age 25 they both were given major roles.

However, I do not remember Kronwall having this many "growing pains" and "learning lessons" as Ericsson has been getting this year. Kronwall has always been a PLUS in the plus/minus category. Ericsson by contrast has always been a MINUS. The problem is that Ericsson seems to be making the same mistakes over and over..... especially in terms of coverage. When Kronwall made a mistake he certainly did not repeat it in the next game.

In listening to Ericsson talk about Lidstrom he seems to be trying to mimic what Lidstrom does.... he said as much in his post-game interview after the Rangers game. I am sorry, but there is only one Lidstrom and if anyone tries to copy what he does forget it.

Kronwall plays his own style. He is more aggressive and obviously not afraid to hit. Between the two of them, Kronwall and Ericsson, I would guess that Ericsson should be the one pummeling guys.... he certainly has the body for it... especially around the net where he seems to make the most mistakes.

Is it because Ericsson is given more responsibility???

There is no doubt that Ericsson will be a fine defenceman. However, I don't know if he will ever become close to "Lidstrom" status as predicted by some.

Agree. I was at the Ranger game and was screaming at the top of my lungs when he gave the puck to Callahan for the breakaway and then hooked him on the same play for the penalty shot. Might be his worst growing pain this season so far. He's such a liability now out there. ughhhhhh!!

Edited December 7, 2009 by PavelHossyukstrom

[haroldsnepsts 4,826]

First, I think you're forgetting about a lot of major gaffes that Kronwall made. He definitely had growing pains.

Second, this is Ericsson's rookie season. He's playing more minutes than he's probably ready for, and I think a lot of these mistakes are as he's trying to do more (sometimes too much). In the playoffs he kept it absolutely simple out there and made the safe play all the time. Now I think he's trying to grow into the role.

He's definitely been given a lot of responsibility very fast because of all the injuries. He's playing a lot of minutes, killing penalties. I think he'll be fine. There's just gonna be ups and down, especially with the team as shaky as it's been this season.

Who's been predicting that Ericsson will be anything like Lidstrom???

He was drafted dead last overall and is a converted forward. If he becomes even a top 4 guy for the Wings, that's a victory.

[thedisappearer 291]

Kronner had plenty of growing pains, plus injuries. I just don't think Ericcson is as good as Kronner, but I think he can still be a solid second line guy.

I'd say his issue is the Wings have no defensive depth, no offensive depth, and aren't playing their system very well. He struggling at times, clearly... but I think he's doing well, all things considered.

[Dano33 41]

In comparing Ericsson with Kronwall, they both have had very similar starts with the Red Wings. Both played some games at age 23 and age 24 with the Wings (27 or less). In their third year at age 25 they both were given major roles.

However, I do not remember Kronwall having this many "growing pains" and "learning lessons" as Ericsson has been getting this year. Kronwall has always been a PLUS in the plus/minus category. Ericsson by contrast has always been a MINUS. The problem is that Ericsson seems to be making the same mistakes over and over..... especially in terms of coverage. When Kronwall made a mistake he certainly did not repeat it in the next game.

In listening to Ericsson talk about Lidstrom he seems to be trying to mimic what Lidstrom does.... he said as much in his post-game interview after the Rangers game. I am sorry, but there is only one Lidstrom and if anyone tries to copy what he does forget it.

Kronwall plays his own style. He is more aggressive and obviously not afraid to hit. Between the two of them, Kronwall and Ericsson, I would guess that Ericsson should be the one pummeling guys.... he certainly has the body for it... especially around the net where he seems to make the most mistakes.

Is it because Ericsson is given more responsibility???

There is no doubt that Ericsson will be a fine defenceman. However, I don't know if he will ever become close to "Lidstrom" status as predicted by some.

It's not like Lidstom has a completely unique playing style, he's just better than everyone else. I absolutely want Ericsson to try to learn from Lidstrom. If he can be even half as good as Lidstrom defensively it would be great for the Wings.

[Casey 145]

Kronwall wasn't stuck with a depleted Wings squad around him. They're asking Ericsson to play first-line minutes as a rookie.

Franzen, Filppula, Williams, Kronwall and Lilja. We're missing essentially a complete second line, and a second or third defensive pairing. That's a lot of pressure to put on him.

[kook_10 1,705]

It's his decision making and situational awareness that I'm worried about, although he could stand to have a little more speed. Last night Parise in particular was showing him absolutely no respect, just going right at him and burning him around the corner. While it's good that he was (in Raffys absence) getting some top pair time with Lids, it became apparent that the Devils knew he couldn't match up so well against their top line. There was also something I saw on the Niedermayer goal that was kind of telling to me. As the play was on Lids side of the ice, Niedermayer caught him watching the puck and just slapped his stick aside and waltzed right into position in front of the net for the goal. It reminded me of my mites coach who used to sneak up and smack the stick out of our hands and yell "two hands". A lot of that stuff should get better with time - he switched to D in his draft year so its reasonable to expect he would still be learning the high level game. Alternatively, I hope he's not just dense, because that would be very bad.

Edited December 7, 2009 by kook_10

[Blueliner 69]

I've been saying this stuff all year. He'll continue to screw up until he realizes he's no longer a forward. He jumps into the play way too much. He just needs to make things simpler. But he's young and has time to improve.

[Echolalia 2,961]

Ericsson is just fine for where he is at. First of all, he is a rookie defensman who, under any other circumstances would be a 6th dman and get 7 minutes a night. Instead the Wings are missing Kronwall and Lilja and periodically Rafalski, which bumps him up to a top 4 pairing and getting 15+ per night, and for the most part he has done well in this scenario. Secondly, this kid does not play like a rookie. He isn't afraid to pinch, he doesn't get knocked off his game by a poor play or big hit, and he's not a passive player on the ice; his mindset is already veteran-like. This makes it all the more apparent when he does make a rookie mistake, such as a turnover or something. It's very hard to forget this is his first year in the NHL judging by the way he carries himself.

Sometimes I have to remind myself this kid is a rookie after he makes a stupid mistake. Then after putting everything in perspective I'm impressed by the kid (despite the mistakes) and look forward to the Dman he is capable of becoming once he actually has some experience under his belt. We also need to keep in mind that Ericsson isn't a natural defensman, and he's still learning some of the finer points of the defensive aspect of the game that most people at this level know naturally.

Edited December 7, 2009 by Echolalia

[Jake Ryan 1]

He's playing with Lebda, too. Let's all remember that.

[Icesurfer 75]

It's not like Lidstom has a completely unique playing style, he's just better than everyone else. I absolutely want Ericsson to try to learn from Lidstrom. If he can be even half as good as Lidstrom defensively it would be great for the Wings.

Learning from Lidstrom and copying his style are two different things. Of course, you want your D men learning form Lidstrom..... you would be foolish not to learn from him! But does Kronwall PLAY like Lidstrom?.... NO. All I am saying is that I think Ericsson's style should be more physical. But first he needs to get to the gym and put on 20lbs... LOL

Edited December 7, 2009 by Icesurfer

[kook_10 1,705]

Sometimes I have to remind myself this kid is a rookie after he makes a stupid mistake. Then after putting everything in perspective I'm impressed by the kid (despite the mistakes) and look forward to the Dman he is capable of becoming once he actually has some experience under his belt. We also need to keep in mind that Ericsson isn't a natural defensman, and he's still learning some of the finer points of the defensive aspect of the game that most people at this level know naturally.

Yea - talk about getting thrown in the deep end! I'm sure it's like drinking from a firehose for the kid. If there was ever a good year for it to happen, this is it -we'd all be calling for his head if we didn't have a million other problems going on.

[Icesurfer 75]

He's playing with Lebda, too. Let's all remember that.

Ericsson had been paired with just about everyone at some point this year. He is starting out very much like Kronwall did..... in terms of games played at the same age.

And just because Kronwall got injured does NOT make him a bad defenceman.

And don't forget Ericsson is 25. At age 25 Kronwall was already a top 4 defenseman... playing on specialty teams also. Kronwall was NEVER a minus player. PLUS players are generally not making a lot of mistakes on the ice.

And when Kronwall started he was playing in Detroit's "rebuilding" years after the lockout.

Edited December 7, 2009 by Icesurfer

[Echolalia 2,961]

Ericsson had been paired with just about everyone at some point this year. He is starting out very much like Kronwall did..... in terms of games played at the same age.

And just because Kronwall got injured does NOT make him a bad defenceman.

And don't forget Ericsson is 25. At age 25 Kronwall was already a top 4 defenseman... playing on specialty teams also. Kronwall was NEVER a minus player. PLUS players are generally not making a lot of mistakes on the ice.

And when Kronwall started he was playing in Detroit's "rebuilding" years after the lockout.

Kronwall also wasn't the very last pick of the draft.

[Theophany 110]

Ericsson actually needs to play more like Kronwall, and less like Lidstrom.

Lidstrom isn't a big guy, compared to Ericsson. He's 6'2" 190; Ericsson is 6'5" 220. Ericsson has the potential to play a style very similar to Pronger (without all the elbows!), and I hate to see him wasting his time trying to play like Lidstrom.

Lidstrom is the best. He's also nearly perfect on the ice; trying to do what he does can put you in really bad spots (I should know, I've been trying to emulate his style of play since I was about 10).

It's much easier to use physical presence and checking to play defense, rather than use finesse to take the puck away. There's no doubt that finesse is the better way to do it, but it requires such a high degree of precision that unless your name is Nicklas Lidstrom, it's pretty dumb to play that way.

I would much rather see Ericsson play a more physical style of defense; use his body to clear the crease and take the body on forwards breaking into the D zone and letting his partner pick up the puck, rather than trying to take away the puck, failing, and the other team getting chances off of that.

All that said, he is indeed still a rookie; he's going to get better.

I'd just like to see him put the body on someone and stop being a girl.

[Icesurfer 75]

I totally forgot that Ericsson was converted from a forward!

OK.... I will have to give him 2 more years.... so he is probably like 2 years behind Kronner in terms of development..... so it makes sense now.

Edited December 7, 2009 by Icesurfer

[Drake_Marcus 890]

Wow... someone is forgetting how brutal Kronwall was defensively for his first few seasons. Kronwall's first defensively responsible season was 07-08. Last year he was terrible defensively. This year he's been good. Hell, Kronwall made this many bone-head plays last season.

Kronwall was TERRIBLE defensively in his rookie season. He came into the league as a poor defensive player with superb offensive instincts. Kronwall's learned his defensive lessons the hard way.

For as many dumb defensive plays Ericsson makes he makes many more good defensive plays. He's -7 right now (he went -3 over the last two games) and the Wings are a sub-500 team. Kronwall's never played on a sub-500 team.

And for his bad mistake tonight I'd like to point out that he spent the most PK time on the team over the last two nights and the PK was perfect both nights so his defense can't be as brutal as people are painting it.

The fact remains that he's been on the #1 PK all season-- something that would never have happened with Kronwall even 3 years ago when he'd played about 3 times the number of games Ericsson has.

Oh, and Ericsson's on pace to beat Kronwall's rookie production by about 17% with more than double the goals.

Kronwall's rookie season (06-07 based on when he finally played more than 27 games):

68gp 1g 21a 22pts +0 (On the 50+ wins 07 Red Wings)

Projected forward (over 80 games):

80gp 1g 25a 26pts +0

Ericsson:

27gp 3g 7a 10pts -7

On Pace:

80gp 9g 21a 30pts -7

Oh, and right now Ericsson's in an offensive slump. He has 2 pts in the last 16 games. His first 11 games were significantly more productive. I'd say it's safe to assume he'll get out of his offensive slump sooner than later. His season end numbers should be over the 30pt mark.

In other words He's on pace for a 15% more points than Kronwall scored and three times the goals. All without a sniff of powerplay time. And for reference a -7 on a sub-500 team is hardly worse than a +0 on the President's Trophy winning team who had the best defensive numbers in the league. Oh and half of Ericson's minus came over the last two games so it's hard to imagine he won't recover it unless this is the start of a sudden slide.

And for all these dumb mistakes Ericsson averages the same number of turn-overs per game as Lidstrom, Kronwall and Stuart and he's better than Rafalski in that respect.

Right now Ericsson's been thrown into the fire as a top 4 d-man in his rookie season who plays on the #1 PK. Since Kronwall was injured he's been in the top 3 in even strength ice-time on the team (sometimes sitting 1st in that category), yet his turnovers and mistakes haven't significantly changed.

He's still good for one goof a game. Ok, great, if we assume where he sits as a rookie 27 games in is where he'll be in even a year then you can *****.

It's amazing how little tolerance people have for rookies around here. Did you think he'd walk in and dominate with minimal NHL experience? This is defense we're talking about. Defense has the toughest NHL transition of all positions.

EDIT: Also Kronwall's true rookie season (when he played more than 27 games) he was, gasp, exactly the same age as Ericsson. Are you sure he was in the top 4 in 06?

Edited December 7, 2009 by Drake_Marcus

[Dano33 41]

Learning from Lidstrom and copying his style are two different things. Of course, you want your D men learning form Lidstrom..... you would be foolish not to learn from him! But does Kronwall PLAY like Lidstrom?.... NO. All I am saying is that I think Ericsson's style should be more physical. But first he needs to get to the gym and put on 20lbs... LOL

I really don't think they are. Obviously he won't become Lidstrom's clone, but if he can copy some things now and implement his own style later it would be ideal for his development process. I agree though, that he will need to add some muscle at some point, he can be dominant if he steps up his physical play.

[Statts 4]

First, I think you're forgetting about a lot of major gaffes that Kronwall made. He definitely had growing pains.

Second, this is Ericsson's rookie season. He's playing more minutes than he's probably ready for, and I think a lot of these mistakes are as he's trying to do more (sometimes too much). In the playoffs he kept it absolutely simple out there and made the safe play all the time. Now I think he's trying to grow into the role.

He's definitely been given a lot of responsibility very fast because of all the injuries. He's playing a lot of minutes, killing penalties. I think he'll be fine. There's just gonna be ups and down, especially with the team as shaky as it's been this season.

Who's been predicting that Ericsson will be anything like Lidstrom???

He was drafted dead last overall and is a converted forward. If he becomes even a top 4 guy for the Wings, that's a victory.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

Also, anyone expecting Ericsson to be the next Lidstrom is setting themselves up for disappointment.

[Guest Lidstromboli]

yo drake, get out of here with that logic nonsense!

[Drake_Marcus 890]

Ericsson had been paired with just about everyone at some point this year. He is starting out very much like Kronwall did..... in terms of games played at the same age.

And just because Kronwall got injured does NOT make him a bad defenceman.

And don't forget Ericsson is 25. At age 25 Kronwall was already a top 4 defenseman... playing on specialty teams also. Kronwall was NEVER a minus player. PLUS players are generally not making a lot of mistakes on the ice.

And when Kronwall started he was playing in Detroit's "rebuilding" years after the lockout.

At 25 Kronwall was playing on the 06-07 Wings as a "rookie" (he has played two seasons prior but never surpassed 27 games, so this was his first full season). Ahead of him on the depth chart were: Lidstrom, Schnieder, Chelios, and Markov. I'm not sure where you got the impression that Kronwall was a member of the top 4 that year.

[kook_10 1,705]

I'm not sure where you got the impression that Kronwall was a member of the top 4 that year.

C'mon Drake - you know how short and rosy everyone's memories are around here. At least he hasn't drawn comparisons to St. Lilja or the Norris/Calder Trophy winning Jiri Fischer.

Edited December 7, 2009 by kook_10

[Jake Ryan 1]

Wow... someone is forgetting how brutal Kronwall was defensively for his first few seasons. Kronwall's first defensively responsible season was 07-08. Last year he was terrible defensively. This year he's been good. Hell, Kronwall made this many bone-head plays last season.

Kronwall was TERRIBLE defensively in his rookie season. He came into the league as a poor defensive player with superb offensive instincts. Kronwall's learned his defensive lessons the hard way.

For as many dumb defensive plays Ericsson makes he makes many more good defensive plays. He's -7 right now (he went -3 over the last two games) and the Wings are a sub-500 team. Kronwall's never played on a sub-500 team.

And for his bad mistake tonight I'd like to point out that he spent the most PK time on the team over the last two nights and the PK was perfect both nights so his defense can't be as brutal as people are painting it.

The fact remains that he's been on the #1 PK all season-- something that would never have happened with Kronwall even 3 years ago when he'd played about 3 times the number of games Ericsson has.

Oh, and Ericsson's on pace to beat Kronwall's rookie production by about 17% with more than double the goals.

Kronwall's rookie season (06-07 based on when he finally played more than 27 games):

68gp 1g 21a 22pts +0 (On the 50+ wins 07 Red Wings)

Projected forward (over 80 games):

80gp 1g 25a 26pts +0

Ericsson:

27gp 3g 7a 10pts -7

On Pace:

80gp 9g 21a 30pts -7

Oh, and right now Ericsson's in an offensive slump. He has 2 pts in the last 16 games. His first 11 games were significantly more productive. I'd say it's safe to assume he'll get out of his offensive slump sooner than later. His season end numbers should be over the 30pt mark.

In other words He's on pace for a 15% more points than Kronwall scored and three times the goals. All without a sniff of powerplay time. And for reference a -7 on a sub-500 team is hardly worse than a +0 on the President's Trophy winning team who had the best defensive numbers in the league. Oh and half of Ericson's minus came over the last two games so it's hard to imagine he won't recover it unless this is the start of a sudden slide.

And for all these dumb mistakes Ericsson averages the same number of turn-overs per game as Lidstrom, Kronwall and Stuart and he's better than Rafalski in that respect.

Right now Ericsson's been thrown into the fire as a top 4 d-man in his rookie season who plays on the #1 PK. Since Kronwall was injured he's been in the top 3 in even strength ice-time on the team (sometimes sitting 1st in that category), yet his turnovers and mistakes haven't significantly changed.

He's still good for one goof a game. Ok, great, if we assume where he sits as a rookie 27 games in is where he'll be in even a year then you can *****.

It's amazing how little tolerance people have for rookies around here. Did you think he'd walk in and dominate with minimal NHL experience? This is defense we're talking about. Defense has the toughest NHL transition of all positions.

EDIT: Also Kronwall's true rookie season (when he played more than 27 games) he was, gasp, exactly the same age as Ericsson. Are you sure he was in the top 4 in 06?

The Wings aren't a sub-500 team, and Ericsson's plus-minus projects out to a minus 20 or so.

[rick zombo 3,739]

Ericsson's -6.

Dan Cleary's -8.

Ericisson has 10 points in 27 games.

Lidstrom has 11 points in 29 games.

Can someone explain to me how Ericsson deserves so much s***? For a 25 year old rookie making NHL pittance. SRSLY?

[Drake_Marcus 890]

The Wings aren't a sub-500 team, and Ericsson's plus-minus projects out to a minus 20 or so.

1) Let's do a quick math lesson:

Wings 09-10 W-L-OTL: 14-10-5

10+5=15 losses

14=14 Wins

14+10+5=29 Games Played

14/29=0.483

Is 0.500 > 0.483 ? Yes. Thus the Wings are a sub-500 team. They've played 29 games and lost 15.

2) +/- is not projected forward based on games played. Go check any site that pro-rates stats. (TSN.ca for example)

Edit: clarity

Edited December 7, 2009 by Drake_Marcus