Enough Jimmy Howard Bashing

[MabusIncarnate 5,359]

All I'm saying is that the same exact guy, said the same exact thing, last year. Only he said it about Ty Conklin.

That would have been a much more civil response to begin with if you had said just that. I'm very unfamiliar with the writer and was unaware that he has made previous statements similar to the one here in the past, I took it as how it read. I figured it deserved some credibility considering the source was ESPN and not Eklund or someone alike.

[Pavel Hossyukstrom 2]

Hey he's better than Mason this season. lol I'll take it.

[Pavel Hossyukstrom 2]

And about Osgood in the playoffs, well, he's not in his 20s. Just because it happened a couple of times doesn't mean it always will. We're just creatures of safety and routine in this matter. At some point, he's not going to do it in the playoffs again. And we'll need a new goalie.

I don't see much talk about Ozzie's age around here or anywhere really. I think we get caught up in other things but he's not young and at some point we're going to have to start wondering if he's run out of gas.

Well aren't Brodeur and Osgood roughly the same age? So what's not stopping Brodeur from slowing down at his age?

[Carman 387]

Well aren't Brodeur and Osgood roughly the same age? So what's not stopping Brodeur from slowing down at his age?

Brodeur is one of the greatest goalies of all time.

[Guest Crymson]

I love when people say this with authority. How, exactly, do you know this?

My question is why they choose to shoot down optimism about members of the team they root for, rather than saying some permutation of "I hope that will come true!"

Oh, wait---it's Doc Holiday.

[Outsider 42]

Brodeur is one of the greatest goalies of all time.

The question WAS regarding the Post Season, wasn't it? I do believe it was. That being the case....

Martin Brodeur

176 GP 98W 78L 23 SO

Winning %: 56%

Shut Out %: 13%

GAA: 1.98

SVP: .922

Chris Osgood

129 GP 74W 49L 15 SO

Winning %: 57%

Shut Out %: 12%

GAA: 2.09

SVP: .919

Now, no one is arguing that Brodeur isn't the superior goaltender.

But when you take a look at the Post Season stats, Osgood stacks up almost identically, in EVERY SINGLE CATEGORY. Even with Brodeur playing every PO Game he's ever appeared in with the Devils, and Osgood spending three years of his career playing behind TERRIBLE Isles and Blues Teams in the PO's.

Edited December 8, 2009 by Outsider

[Doc Holiday 0]

I love when people say this with authority. How, exactly, do you know this?

You are right.

I guess there is no arguing that Hudler won't get 50 goals when he comes back to Detroit.

Or saying that Zetterberg will get 150 points this year and win the Hart.

Please forget I even said that...

[Carman 387]

I was refering to the statement "what's stopping Brodeur from slowing down like Osgood seems to be". And I answered because Broduer is one of the greatest goalies of all time.

[HenryMalredo 2]

Well aren't Brodeur and Osgood roughly the same age? So what's not stopping Brodeur from slowing down at his age?

Thats just a silly comparison. Brodeur's one of the best of all time.

[Outsider 42]

I was refering to the statement "what's stopping Brodeur from slowing down like Osgood seems to be". And I answered because Broduer is one of the greatest goalies of all time.

The original question was:

QUOTE (zackmorris @ December 7, 2009 - 06:18PM)And about Osgood in the playoffs, well, he's not in his 20s. Just because it happened a couple of times doesn't mean it always will. We're just creatures of safety and routine in this matter. At some point, he's not going to do it in the playoffs again. And we'll need a new goalie.

I don't see much talk about Ozzie's age around here or anywhere really. I think we get caught up in other things but he's not young and at some point we're going to have to start wondering if he's run out of gas.

To which Pavel Hossyukstrom replied:

QUOTE (Pavel Hossyukstrom @ December 7, 2009 - 11:22PM) Well aren't Brodeur and Osgood roughly the same age? So what's not stopping Brodeur from slowing down at his age?

So, clearly, it WAS about the Play Offs. And as has been shown, Osgood is Brodeur's equal, in all categories, when it comes to Play Off performance.

[Outsider 42]

Thats just a silly comparison. Brodeur's one of the best of all time.

Check the flow of the conversation, Henry.

The original comment was "about Osgood in the Play Offs", pertaining to his age, and to the fact that AT his age, we can't expect him to perform well, just because he has in the past.

Pavel Hossyukstrom's question was "Why not. Osgood and Brodeur are the same age. What's stopping Brodeur from slowing down?"

Again, when it comes to the PLAY OFFS, Osgood and Brodeur are almost IDENTICAL. And that IS what the original comment was pertaining to, after all.

The Play Offs.

[Carman 387]

But Brodeur's physical talent and ability surpasses Osgood. Which is why it's a silly comparison.

[SouthernWingsFan 854]

Jimmy Howard is lazy and he sucks.

Somebody had to say it.

Yes I'm kidding.

[Outsider 42]

But Brodeur's physical talent and ability surpasses Osgood. Which is why it's a silly comparison.

Not for nothin', but it was a widely held belief for YEARS that Curtis Joseph's "physical talent and ability" surpassed Osgood, too. Hell! Roberto Luongo's "physical talent and ability" surpasses Osgood by a MILE.

Takes more than "physical talent and ability" to Win in the Post Season, Carman. Osgood is undersized for a goaltender, and he's never been the most skilled.

Osgood has achieved what he's achieved in his career because he's got Heart. He's a battler. A fighter. And no matter how many times you knock him down, he keeps getting back up.

Like it or not, Chris Osgood has the Heart of a Champion. That's a fact.

[Carman 387]

Oh no I'm not denying that Osgood is one of the best playoff goalies of all time and am grateful for watching him demonstrate it over the years. I'm just saying I think it's silly to compare the aging of different players like that especially when one has been far and away as dominate in every aspect as Brodeur has been. That's all.

*by the way all my negative posts on Osgood are to fill the quota of demeaning remarks to Osgood because it's always worked in the past he seems to be fueled by the haters. I don't honestly want to trade him for a roll of tape, come on.*

[Guest zackmorris]

Well aren't Brodeur and Osgood roughly the same age? So what's not stopping Brodeur from slowing down at his age?

Well, probably because they aren't the same person. Seriously, how does Brodeur tie into this?

Aside from the fact Brodeur's had the cushiest system in front of him for about 2 decades now, he's a different player. If everyone expired at the same age we wouldn't have this thread, would we?

[interminded 1]

Not for nothin', but it was a widely held belief for YEARS that Curtis Joseph's "physical talent and ability" surpassed Osgood, too. Hell! Roberto Luongo's "physical talent and ability" surpasses Osgood by a MILE.

Takes more than "physical talent and ability" to Win in the Post Season, Carman. Osgood is undersized for a goaltender, and he's never been the most skilled.

Osgood has achieved what he's achieved in his career because he's got Heart. He's a battler. A fighter. And no matter how many times you knock him down, he keeps getting back up.

Like it or not, Chris Osgood has the Heart of a Champion. That's a fact.

Well said sir.

[Draperfan 104]

*by the way all my negative posts on Osgood are to fill the quota of demeaning remarks to Osgood because it's always worked in the past he seems to be fueled by the haters. I don't honestly want to trade him for a roll of tape, come on.*

Way to backtrack...COWARD

[beez35 4]

i noticed yesterday that he was holding onto the pucks pretty tight. seems to be trying to work on the rebound problem

I was about to say that also. I thought he was doing pretty well with the rebound control. Especially that one where the rebound was nearly up over his shoulder, he stayed tall and kept it in his body.

[Opie 308]

Wow. Talk about "Ye of short memory".

Ummmm.....

MAF was a First Overall draft pick who was projected to be an elite "Franchise Goaltender" at the NHL level from the time he was about 13-14 years old.

And Dominik Hasek was a dominating force in the Czech League long, long, LONG before he was drafted, let alone played in his "rookie year".

And Jimmy Howard was one of the best Goaltenders in NCAA for 2 years, Maf fell on his face in the NHL his first year, Hasek was a no one in the NHL until year what 6-7 of his career.

My point was no matter what the history of the player, a rookie is going to struggle, some of the all time greats have fell on their face for the first 2-3 years of their career, especially in net where any mistake is a glaring mistake.

The original poster said definitively what Howard would and would not be in the future based on 25 or so games in the NHL.

Really? Hmm meet michel nostradamus 2.0!

I am not saying I know, in fact I am saying I do not know what Howard will be. That is my point none of us do, yet some of us parade around like we do know what will happen.

I like Doc as a poster, but seriously it is the easy way out to say Howard won't be great! Why? Because the odds are in his favor, the chances of Jimmy being as good as Ozzie are slim to none let alone him being the next Mike Richter.

But instead of focusing on what he is doing now, posters feel the need to say, he won't be s*** in 3 years (not a direct quote or a paraphrase of anyone mentioned in this post/thread/board).

Fine but what in the hell does your opinion of him in 3 years have to do with what is being talked about now, and that is the state of his play currently this season!

Outsider: you are not the OP so my (YOU) in this next blurb is not intended at you.

Not next year, not 4 years down the road.

Right now. And as I have said in other threads, these threads never work out the way the op (or I) intend them. You want the lunatic fringe to read or post in it so you can have you, I was right moment, however none of them are here, the Wings are winning, J-ho is playing much better and showing improvement (not vast but some) on his rebound control.

The next goal scored on a J-Ho rebound, whether the Wings win 5-1 or 700-1, or lose 84-1 and he was only in for one goal the fringe will be back.

Edited December 8, 2009 by Opie

[Shady Ultima 40]

I could see him being a Vezina candidate, especially if he gains consistency.

When he's on his game... he looks better than a LOT of goalies. Hell, in one of the Canucks games, he was stopping the shots that Luongo was letting in...

[mmamolo 287]

I think some ppl here are taking statements that are made too literally. It's true that a lot of posts are being written in a difinitive manner but all the posters are really doing is stating their opinion. Obviously everyone here will agree that there is no way for anyone to know if Howard will or wont turn into a Vezina candidate. All any of these posts are are opinions and should be taken as such. Everyone gets so caught up in semantics and takes thigns so literally. Either way, I guess that's half the fun.

Personally I think Howard has improved by leaps and bounds from where he was in his first game against St Louis in Sweden. In reference to the one poster who did show that the bulk of Howards starts have been against non-playoffs teams I would also like to point out that there have been more than a few games where the Wings as a team didn't show up in front of Howard (regardless who they were playing). Also, a lot should be said about the quality of team and the performance of star players thus far this season. I think Howard's achievements are that much more impressive because of the lack of production by guys like Datsyuk and Lidstrom; the injuries to guys like Franzen and Filppula. If Howard had been up with the big club last year he could have posted these samme numbers and they would mean much less than they do today because of all the struggles we have faced so far.

[Doc Holiday 0]

I am not saying I know, in fact I am saying I do not know what Howard will be. That is my point none of us do, yet some of us parade around like we do know what will happen.

I like Doc as a poster, but seriously it is the easy way out to say Howard won't be great! Why? Because the odds are in his favor, the chances of Jimmy being as good as Ozzie are slim to none let alone him being the next Mike Richter.

But instead of focusing on what he is doing now, posters feel the need to say, he won't be s*** in 3 years (not a direct quote or a paraphrase of anyone mentioned in this post/thread/board).

Fine but what in the hell does your opinion of him in 3 years have to do with what is being talked about now, and that is the state of his play currently this season!

It isn't the hard or easy way out. It is the idea that I tend to get from fans who see a young guy doing well. They talked about how Conks was going to be the Osgood of 2008. What happened then? Howard has had a lot of time to develop and considering the fact he was considered a blue-chip prospect it has been disappointing. Especially when guys like Larsson and McCollum are catching up.

All I'm saying is that the "bashing" against Howard was that the writing is on the wall for him this season and he needs to prove he can be a consistent part of this team. So far he has done well. I haven't seen anything warranting "eating crow" threads or anything of the like. He has been good, with some bright spots in between.

If over the coming years Howard becomes Detroit's bonafide starter, I'll gladly eat crow. And I believe that Howard has been hung out to dry at times just like Ozzie this season, so it's not like I look forward to the guy failing. I'm very happy with what I've seen so far.