The Chris Osgood discussion thread

[Broken 16 381]

The goals that Osgood let in against Chicago, (with all the extenuating circumstances of that Game), were no worse than the first two goals Howard let in against the Ducks last night, at equally "bad times" in the Game.

ALSO Against a VASTLY inferior Team. Under much better circumstances.

You cannot deny that. And even YOU acknowledged it when you saw Babcock's comments about how "good" Jimmy played against Anaheim.

I thought babcock was mad at Ozzy for the remarks he made to the press. I think I was wrong upon further thought.

By the way, don't think I didn't notice that you conveniently ignored my question about who you would rather have on the PK and why.

And please don't try and drag me into your 'so and so is facing inferior teams while the other guy is facing superior teams' logic. Because it's completely flawed and I won't acknowledge it any more.

Edited January 7, 2010 by Broken 16

[Outsider 42]

So, in other words, Osgood is timid in net. That's HIS problem. He's a big boy.

Osgood isn't "timid" in net. He just needs to get in a groove. An opportunity afforded to Howard due to Osgood's battle with the flu.

In other words, Osgood is only better than Howard when he is at his best. My advice to Osgood is to get his ass to being at his best if he wants to play.

That's not what I said. And you know it. You're being a s*** stirrer again.

What I said is that Osgood has been expected to come in, ice cold, and instantly be "the best he can be". That's what Babcock has stated that he wants. And we've all seen Osgood at his "very best."

When both goalies are at "their very best", Howard can't touch Ozzie.

Not yet, anyway.

[b.shanafan14 733]

Howard has still looked better on the PK. He battles harder. I've seen him physically push players (even his own!) out of the way to get to the puck so he can freeze it. Osgood has taken more of a 'sit back in the net and hope it hits me' mentality into his PK's. At least, that's how it looks to me. Our PK has been a MAJOR Achilles heel this season. Howards size and athleticism give him an edge in that department. Factor in that he appears to battle harder, and I can fully see why Babcock would prefer Howard in net.

Be honest... this season so far, who would you rather have in net for a PK? Why?

This is the whole problem with the argument. People are confusing the call for Osgood to get a start as he has played better and deserves to be in goal over Howard. That isn't what is being argued. Howard has been the better goaltender this season, period. He has also gotten a much better opportunity to be that goaltender. This isn't about prefering Howard in goal or vise versa.

This is about a reasonable split that we should be seeing and aren't. I'd be saying the same thing if Howard had an average start to the season and Osgood was randomly getting handed 7-8 games in a row, which we all know would never happen. And at least in that case, we wouldn't have to worry about our favored goaltender not having playoff experience.

The bottom line is there is more to this then simply that Howard has been a god and Osgood has been a slug. We have a veteran netminder who is our go-to-guy come the Spring time and a rookie who is enjoying limited team success in an injury plagued season, perfect formula for 55-45 split, but instead we are seeing Howard getting the Mikka Kipprusoff schedule and Osgood being punished for unknown reasons.

[Broken 16 381]

Osgood isn't "timid" in net. He just needs to get in a groove. An opportunity afforded to Howard due to Osgood's battle with the flu.

So beat out Jimmy Howard for a start. He obviously hasn't done that yet.

That's not what I said. And you know it. You're being a s*** stirrer again.

What I said is that Osgood has been expected to come in, ice cold, and instantly be "the best he can be". That's what Babcock has stated that he wants. And we've all seen Osgood at his "very best."

When both goalies are at "their very best", Howard can't touch Ozzie.

Not yet, anyway.

I never said that's what you said, but maybe thats exactly what Babcock is implying.

[Outsider 42]

I thought babcock was mad at Ozzy for the remarks he made to the press. I think I was wrong upon further thought.

By the way, don't think I didn't notice that you conveniently ignored my question about who you would rather have on the PK and why.

If you think I've ignored the question, then you haven't been paying any attention whatsoever.

I've stated numerous times that I think that HOWARD should be getting the majority of the Starts in net, INCLUDING those against the "tougher" competition, based on the fact that he IS playing well, (aside from last night), and that he has alot of confidence right now.

What I've been arguing, (for those like you with ADHD), is that there is NO justification for keeping Osgood ROTTING on the bench, when he is NOT playing badly.

As I've said repeatedly, it is possible to play them BOTH, while STILL allowing the "hot hand" to get the majority of the Starts.

[Broken 16 381]

This is the whole problem with the argument. People are confusing the call for Osgood to get a start as he has played better and deserves to be in goal over Howard. That isn't what is being argued. Howard has been the better goaltender this season, period. He has also gotten a much better opportunity to be that goaltender. This isn't about prefering Howard in goal or vise versa.

This is about a reasonable split that we should be seeing and aren't. I'd be saying the same thing if Howard had an average start to the season and Osgood was randomly getting handed 7-8 games in a row, which we all know would never happen. And at least in that case, we wouldn't have to worry about our favored goaltender not having playoff experience.

The bottom line is there is more to this then simply that Howard has been a god and Osgood has been a slug. We have a veteran netminder who is our go-to-guy come the Spring time and a rookie who is enjoying limited team success in an injury plagued season, perfect formula for 55-45 split, but instead we are seeing Howard getting the Mikka Kipprusoff schedule and Osgood being punished for unknown reasons.

Every other season, I would agree. This season is different. We don't have the luxury of coddling two goaltenders into a groove. Sucks for Osgood that he got the flu. Sucks for Osgood that Jimmy took advantage of the opportunity. Sucks for Osgood that Jimmy hasn't stunk enough yet so he can get in there.

This isn't the type of season we're used to. Every game is a must win now. How stupid would Babcock be if he didn't ice the best goalie? How quickly would you jump on Babcock if he did give Osgood his little chance to show himself and we lost a few games in a row, which could potentially put us out of the running?

Do you guys really believe that the goalie rotation would be going like this if we were leading the conference like we usually do every year. No way. It would probably be a 50/50 split. Probably more like 60/40 Howard.

Edited January 7, 2010 by Broken 16

[Broken 16 381]

If you think I've ignored the question, then you haven't been paying any attention whatsoever.

I've stated numerous times that I think that HOWARD should be getting the majority of the Starts in net, INCLUDING those against the "tougher" competition, based on the fact that he IS playing well, (aside from last night), and that he has alot of confidence right now.

What I've been arguing, (for those like you with ADHD), is that there is NO justification for keeping Osgood ROTTING on the bench, when he is NOT playing badly.

As I've said repeatedly, it is possible to play them BOTH, while STILL allowing the "hot hand" to get the majority of the Starts.

Yes there is. We need wins and Howard gives us a better chance.

You may think we can afford to throw away points helping Osgood find his game that he won't even use until the playoffs. But I don't.

ADHD? Jeez, I just got back into the fray and you're already getting personal?

Edited January 7, 2010 by Broken 16

[Outsider 42]

Yes there is. We need wins and Howard gives us a better chance.

You may think we can afford to throw away points helping Osgood find his game that he won't even use until the playoffs. But I don't.

Name ONE Game since Osgood has been back from the flu that has been "thrown away" mainly due to the fact that Osgood was in net.

ONE.

I can name TWO, just last month, that were lost MAINLY due to the fact that Howard was just outright BAD:

Edmonton. Dallas. BOTH Games which should have been Wins, but were not, mainly due to shoddy goaltending.

You could argue that the shorty last night, five minutes into the Game, followed by a SECOND goal 2:01 later, (both of which were awful goals to give up), "broke the back" of the Team. Once Flip got them on the board, and Howard gave up the third goal 2:30 minutes later, you could argue that that "cost them the Game", too.

At least be consistent in your criticism.

You argue that the two bad goals that Osgood gave up in the 2nd Period against Chicago, (where his Team is outshot by nearly a 2-1 margin, and fails to score a single goal), took the wind out of the Wings sails, and they were unable to come back from that.

Then you argue that Howard's equally bad goals, against a bottom feeder like Anaheim, on fewer shots, in a Game where his Team OUTSHOOTS the opponent, is a "fine" Game from him?

And I am the one there's no reasoning with?

[Outsider 42]

ADHD? Jeez, I just got back into the fray and you're already getting personal?

Sorry, but if the shoe fits....

I've never argued that Howard should be pulled in favor of Osgood. Only that Osgood should be getting some ice time. He hasn't earned a permanent spot on the bench.

Period.

And the Wings WILL need him. You can count on that.

When they DO, it will be in everyone's best interest to have him at least a BIT Game ready.

[Broken 16 381]

Name ONE Game since Osgood has been back from the flu that has been "thrown away" mainly due to the fact that Osgood was in net.

ONE.

I can name TWO, just last month, that were lost MAINLY due to the fact that Howard was just outright BAD:

Edmonton. Dallas. BOTH Games which should have been Wins, but were not, mainly due to shoddy goaltending.

You could argue that the shorty last night, five minutes into the Game, followed by a SECOND goal 2:01 later, (both of which were awful goals to give up), "broke the back" of the Team. Once Flip got them on the board, and Howard gave up the third goal 2:30 minutes later, you could argue that that "cost them the Game", too.

At least be consistent in your criticism.

You argue that the two bad goals that Osgood gave up in the 2nd Period against Chicago, (where his Team is outshot by nearly a 2-1 margin, and fails to score a single goal), took the wind out of the Wings sails, and they were unable to come back from that.

Then you argue that Howard's equally bad goals, against a bottom feeder like Anaheim, on fewer shots, in a Game where his Team OUTSHOOTS the opponent, is a "fine" Game from him?

And I am the one there's no reasoning with?

Howard is fully prepared to play in net. Osgood, on the other hand... according to you, is scared to make a mistake so he won't get benched again. Give me the guy with confidence against LA.

GO JIMMY!

Seriously though... If Osgood's psyche has been so damaged by Babcock that he is afraid to make a mistake and it's affecting his game (as stated by you), maybe he should go down to GR for a bit.

Edited January 7, 2010 by Broken 16

[Outsider 42]

Howard is fully prepared to play in net. Osgood, on the other hand... according to you, is scared to make a mistake so he won't get benched again. Give me the guy with confidence against LA.

GO JIMMY!

By the way, don't think I didn't notice that you conveniently ignored my question about which Games have been "thrown away" simply because Osgood was in net.

Or is this merely another of the salient points you "won't acknowledge" because you can't refute the facts?

Come on, Broken. YOU threw it out there. Defend it.

[Broken 16 381]

Sorry, but if the shoe fits....

I've never argued that Howard should be pulled in favor of Osgood. Only that Osgood should be getting some ice time. He hasn't earned a permanent spot on the bench.

Period.

And the Wings WILL need him. You can count on that.

When they DO, it will be in everyone's best interest to have him at least a BIT Game ready.

Actually, the personal attack doesn't really surprise me. Lots of people (including myself, unfortunately) resort to that when they don't have a leg to stand on.

[Evans_18 4]

Ozzie has in no way deserved to be benched when looking at his number he has put up. Its not right to judge his play based on 17 games this season at times when our team was failing to click both offensive and defensively.

And yes we will see how Howard does tonight, and I am hoping he has a good outing but we will see considering the Kings will put up more of a challenge then the Ducks I am expecting. But no matter what the outcome it will probably all be beneficial to our team. If Howard does win then that's good for us because we get 2 points, hell I will be happy with even one point right now. But if he messes up then maybe it will be time for Ozzie to come in and shine and show everyone why he has been in the league so long and has been successful, considering that he has not once had a losing season even when he was on a miserable Islanders team at the time.

[Broken 16 381]

By the way, don't think I didn't notice that you conveniently ignored my question about which Games have been "thrown away" simply because Osgood was in net.

Or is this merely another of the salient points you "won't acknowledge" because you can't refute the facts?

Come on, Broken. YOU threw it out there. Defend it.

I was simply going by what you said. That Babcock has Osgood so afraid to make a mistake that he is playing scared. I don't want THAT guy in net tonight. Do you?

[Broken 16 381]

Ozzie has in no way deserved to be benched when looking at his number he has put up. Its not right to judge his play based on 17 games this season at times when our team was failing to click both offensive and defensively.

Maybe Osgood hasn't impressed Babcock in practice. That seems like a good enough reason to me.

[Outsider 42]

Maybe Osgood hasn't impressed Babcock in practice. That seems like a good enough reason to me.

Since you obviously missed this, too....

From MLive....

"Ozzie's practiced real well the last little while," Babcock said.

[Evans_18 4]

I dont see it as playing scared. If you look at it like this is kind of makes sense.

With Howard being more aggressive on the PK it is also leaving him and the team in a more vulnerable position if that cross ice pass gets through and is usually deemed to be an easy goal. With Ozzie's not so aggressive style it takes away more of a chance that that cross ice pass is in the back of the net because it leaves him with the opportunity to be able to get into position in time to make the save. And now that our PK is blocking more shots I believe our PK would be just fine with Ozzie in net.

So I would not say that he is playing scared but I think he is using more of his experience in the situation. He challenges enough and does not really leave himself in that vulnerable situation.

[Broken 16 381]

Since you obviously missed this, too....

From MLive....

"Ozzie's practiced real well the last little while, not quite as good as Jimmy... but pretty good" Babcock said.

Maybe this is what Babcock really wanted to say but didn't because we all know how much hockey people love canned responses.

[Broken 16 381]

I dont see it as playing scared. If you look at it like this is kind of makes sense.

With Howard being more aggressive on the PK it is also leaving him and the team in a more vulnerable position if that cross ice pass gets through and is usually deemed to be an easy goal. With Ozzie's not so aggressive style it takes away more of a chance that that cross ice pass is in the back of the net because it leaves him with the opportunity to be able to get into position in time to make the save. And now that our PK is blocking more shots I believe our PK would be just fine with Ozzie in net.

So I would not say that he is playing scared but I think he is using more of his experience in the situation. He challenges enough and does not really leave himself in that vulnerable situation.

I didn't say he was playing scared. Outsider did.

[Evans_18 4]

You are using it as a point to why you do not want him to play though so there for I am bringing in reasoning to his way of playing.

[Broken 16 381]

You are using it as a point to why you do not want him to play though so there for I am bringing in reasoning to his way of playing.

If Outsider says that Osgood is playing scared then I believe it. Seriously... who could possibly know more about Osgood than Outsider?

Of course Howard looks like he's battling harder, while Osgood is "sitting in his net". Osgood kows that a questionable goal could probably put him back on the bench for another TWO WEEKS.

I'm convinced. Now I'm thinking a stint in GR might be just what Osgood needs.

Edited January 7, 2010 by Broken 16

[jollymania 162]

He better be ready to play his heart out come playoff time

[gcom007 1,465]

Interesting.

[Doc Holliday 1,888]

If Outsider says that Osgood is playing scared then I believe it. Seriously... who could possibly know more about Osgood than Outsider?

I'm convinced. Now I'm thinking a stint in GR might be just what Osgood needs.

You don't think that playing well, having a goaltender start the next game and then play some stinkers himself without getting some pine would do something to any goaltender's confidence?

He had a relatively bad game against Anaheim, and though it wasn't abysmal, it wasn't enough to warrant a SEVENTH start in a row. Osgood shouldn't be sitting on the bench waiting for Howard to play so badly that he would have trouble with beachballs, but that seems to be what it would take for people to believe that Osgood deserves a legitimate shot to go out there.

[Broken 16 381]

You don't think that playing well, having a goaltender start the next game and then play some stinkers himself without getting some pine would do something to any goaltender's confidence?

He had a relatively bad game against Anaheim, and though it wasn't abysmal, it wasn't enough to warrant a SEVENTH start in a row. Osgood shouldn't be sitting on the bench waiting for Howard to play so badly that he would have trouble with beachballs, but that seems to be what it would take for people to believe that Osgood deserves a legitimate shot to go out there.

That should speak volumes on where Osgood is at in Babcocks mind. I fully expected Osgood to play tonight. But he's not. I originally thought that Babcock had a vendetta against him, but the more I think about it, Babcock can't afford to lose games because he has a grudge. He's a professional first and I can't see him hindering the team over a grudge.

Think about it... Piss off Osgood, wreck Jimmy Howard, hobble the team... just because he is mad at him? Surely there is more to it than that.

I honestly never thought people would turn on Babcock over Osgood. I guess I underestimated the love.

Edited January 8, 2010 by Broken 16