Red Wings First-Half Grades

[mmamolo 287]

While its conceivable that Kronwall-Stuart could be the number 1 pairing when Lids retires especially given Rafs decline, I'd still like to see a little more offensive output from that tandem before I'd say its better than any other two in the NHL. I'm not expecting Lids-Raf numbers of 2007-2008, but a little more than those two have put up. Note: That's no knock on those two!

Well, before Kronwall got hurt he was putting up very solid offensive numbers (5 goals, 8 assists, for 13 pts in 21 games). I think if one of the d-men in your top pairing is putting up approx 50 pts, you should be pretty pumped.

But I do know what you're saying

[StormJH1 231]

I think the grades are well done (I like all of Khan's work on MLive, and he's probably the most frequent cite on this board). The grades are supposed to be relative to what you'd EXPECT out of each player coming into the year. They aren't saying that Brad Stuart is a better player than Pavel Datsyuk, for example. I think the B+ for Lidstrom is a little generous given that half of his entire game (the offense) has all but disappeared.

That said, I don't think that Lidstrom is doing too much different, but that we're seeing how much of a beneficiary he was of our puck possession system (particularly on that top power play unit)...but without Filppula and Zetterberg (and minus guys like Hossa and Hudler), this team has lost a lot of the guys that like to possess the puck.

[Guest blueadams]

http://www.mlive.com/redwings/index.ssf/20...s_jimmy_ho.html

I like the way the copyright symbol comes up for C grade

playoff lines!?

Bertuzzi-Datsyuk-Holmstrom

Franzen-Zetterberg-Cleary

Eaves-Filppula-Williams

Draper-Helm-Abdelkader

Miller

Leino

May

Maltby

Ritola

Lidstrom-Rafalski

Kronwall-Stuart

Ericsson-Lilja?

Lebda

Meech

Janik

Howard

Osgood

Liv

[uk_redwing 495]

May D-

Janik D

HUDLER COULD STILL BE A WING THIS SEASON

[Hockeytown0001 7,652]

HUDLER COULD STILL BE A WING THIS SEASON

...wha?

[Finnish Wing 110]

Well, we could argue all day over whether grades should be based on expectations or straight performance. I'm going to grade on straight performance and I'm going to lay out what the grades are.

Obviously the scale goes from F to A+. That's twelve slots plus the failing grade.

For forwards, the 'A' grades would be first-line forwards, 'B' grades would be second liners, and so on. F would be any player who didn't belong on in the NHL. For defensemen, it would be different; it would be in steps of 2, with A+ and A being the first defenseman, A- and B+ being the second defenseman, and so on. And goaltenders would be A+ to B- and C+ to D- as starters and backups, respectively.

So the grades?

Zetterberg A

Datsyuk A-

Franzen A-

Holmstrom B+

Filppula B

Williams B

Cleary B

Bertuzzi B-

Eaves B-

Abdelkader C+

Miller C+

Draper C

Helm C

Maltby C-

Leino D

May D-

Kronwall A+

Lidstrom A

Rafalski B+

Stuart B+

Ericsson B-

Meech D

Janik D

Lebda D-

Howard A-

Osgood B+

Coaching B-

Good post. But it's important thing to notice that these players get paid different amount of money. It's just natural to expect more from guys with huge paybills. So I'd rather make the list based on cap hit vs. performance, not just performance or expectations based on earlier performances vs. performance.

[GMRwings1983 8,804]

HUDLER COULD STILL BE A WING THIS SEASON

Brad May must have pissed in Eva's soup. The guy doesn't understand a damn thing about May's role on the team, and is yet another anti-enforcer poster. How May can be a D- on anyone's list is beyond me.

Also, Lidstrom was graded too well on Khan's list. His defense this season has been around an A-, but offensively, I can't give him any higher than a C-

[Stiffy 0]

Gees oh Pete, if you guys and Ansar were my college professors I would have three masters degrees by now and no student loans. Talk about easy grades. I have to assume many of you went to State and not Michigan! For the standings they have achieved and the poor performance (before, during and after injuries), this is all pure charity. Sure a few well deserved D's in the mix, but you can't blame just these low performers for the disappointing showing to date. This team is not passing in my grade book.

If you total up Eva's scores the offense averages at a B- Seriously? How many scoreless games and a B-? 15th in points in the league a B-? Sorry, solid C (15 out of 30 says it all)

Defense averages out with a C+? The lot should be a D or D+.

Goal tending gets a A-!!! Please. Howard gets a good grade and certainly is most improved in the entire class of 09/10, but Ozzie is dragging down the department big time.

Take the average on the whole team for a B-! B- for 9th place?

Smells like grade inflation to me. Then again, I went to Michigan (under and grad), so I may just be an elitist snob when it comes to earning a good grade.

Go ahead and nail me for the snotty Michigan thing, but being a fan and critiquing your team harshly are not in conflict. I want them to win as much as anyone.

[eva unit zero 271]

Brad May must have pissed in Eva's soup. The guy doesn't understand a damn thing about May's role on the team, and is yet another anti-enforcer poster. How May can be a D- on anyone's list is beyond me.

Also, Lidstrom was graded too well on Khan's list. His defense this season has been around an A-, but offensively, I can't give him any higher than a C-

I stated that my grades were based on actual performance, not performance vs. role or expecation or anything like that. You tell me May is better than a D in that respect and I'll send you to drug rehab because you'll need it.

[ben_usmc 253]

Well, we could argue all day over whether grades should be based on expectations or straight performance. I'm going to grade on straight performance and I'm going to lay out what the grades are.

Obviously the scale goes from F to A+. That's twelve slots plus the failing grade.

For forwards, the 'A' grades would be first-line forwards, 'B' grades would be second liners, and so on. F would be any player who didn't belong on in the NHL. For defensemen, it would be different; it would be in steps of 2, with A+ and A being the first defenseman, A- and B+ being the second defenseman, and so on. And goaltenders would be A+ to B- and C+ to D- as starters and backups, respectively.

So the grades?

Zetterberg A

Datsyuk A-

Franzen A-

Holmstrom B+

Filppula B

Williams B

Cleary B

Bertuzzi B-

Eaves B-

Abdelkader C+

Miller C+

Draper C

Helm C

Maltby C-

Leino D

May D-

Kronwall A+

Lidstrom A

Rafalski B+

Stuart B+

Ericsson B-

Meech D

Janik D

Lebda D-

Howard A-

Osgood B+

Coaching B-

how is Ozzy a B+ he has been terrible in every game but maybe 1. Janik has been very good, actually your entire grading just sucks, Abby/Helm/Miller C's? They've been playing above there head and out played most of our "superstars". Ericsson a B-? He has been almost as bad as Lebd, Datsyuk and Lidstrom A's?? They have not up until recently done s*** for this team......I'm not even going to bother going on.

Edited January 6, 2010 by ben_usmc

[ben_usmc 253]

Brad May must have pissed in Eva's soup. The guy doesn't understand a damn thing about May's role on the team, and is yet another anti-enforcer poster. How May can be a D- on anyone's list is beyond me.

Also, Lidstrom was graded too well on Khan's list. His defense this season has been around an A-, but offensively, I can't give him any higher than a C-

his entire grading scale sucks so don't even worry about it

[eva unit zero 271]

If you total up Eva's scores the offense averages at a B- Seriously? How many scoreless games and a B-?

Well, let's look at this for a second.

Franzen has been injured, and he is graded an A-. Zetterberg is graded an A. Cleary is graded a B. So you can't really count them in the forward average and then criticize the grade based on recent slumping.

The players who have recently been playing average out to a C+. Barely above average, and many of them are defensive specialists. Explains the scoring slump a bit, huh?

Last year's regular forward average over the entire season would average to a A- due to both the large number of elite forwards on the team and the strong performance of the depth forwards. This year we have a strong performance by the depth forwards, but the elite forwards aren't there.

[Guest Lidstromboli]

Zetterberg A

Datsyuk B

Franzen - too small of a sample size

Holmstrom B

Filppula C+

Williams C-

Cleary C+

Bertuzzi B-

Eaves B-

Abdelkader C

Miller C+

Draper C+

Helm B

Maltby C-

Leino F

May C

Kronwall A-

Lidstrom B

Rafalski C+

Stuart A

Ericsson C

Meech D

Janik C

Lebda F

Howard B

Osgood C-

Edited January 6, 2010 by Lidstromboli

[skyphoenix 153]

How the hell is Rafalski a C+? He has been god awful for about 2/3 of this season.

[Finnish Wing 110]

How the hell is Rafalski a C+? He has been god awful for about 2/3 of this season.

Based on expectations or just performance?

[Guest Lidstromboli]

How the hell is Rafalski a C+? He has been god awful for about 2/3 of this season.

C+ is probably a little generous, but he hasn't exactly been "god awful" this season

[Miller Brew 0]

Red Wings grade against the Ducks last night:

Datsyuk F

Holmstrom F

Filppula D

Bertuzzi F

Eaves F

Abdelkader F

Miller F

Draper F

Helm F

Maltby F

May F

Lidstrom F

Rafalski F

Stuart F

Meech F

Janik F

Lebda F

Howard F

[NeverForgetMac25 483]

I think what I like most about the Kronwall/Stuart pairing is we have a solid puck moving defensemen in Kronner and a dominant shut down man in Stuart. While their scoring production won't match Lids and Ralfi, they are two guys you can most certainly count on against anyone's top players and will knock-the-f-out any players who don't pay attention they're on the ice. Then given the fact that Wings have depth scoring defensemen in Ericsson (I think his offensive numbers will make Kronwall blush), and soon Kindl will be here. Then looking ahead a few years, Smith will be the man who will lead in D-scoring. Of course that's my opinion based on what I've seen from the kid.

Hopefully all the guys you listed will reach their potential but keep in mind that what you posted would be a best case scenario. All the kids you mentioned have a long way to go before they can be *heavily* relied on for the type of output you posted. While it excites me by the thought of 2nd and 3rd pairing scoring, we're still gonna need the first pairing to put up solid numbers before we can say they're the best top tandem in the game. That's my one and only point.

Sidenote: Sorry for getting back to you so late with this. I had to leave a few minutes after I initially posted yesterday.