I think it's possible to sign Kovalchuck this off-season

[AtomicPunk 296]

Any team that he goes to is a contender just because he is on it.

[tonyfranks16 0]

Any team that he goes to is a contender just because he is on it.

so in that case, if he goes to Edmonton or Toronto, they are automatically contenders?

the only way i would agree with that is if you mean in the long run, not immediately.

a lesser team getting Kovy, would bring better players in the long run, assuming they are still making proper moves to build a winning environment. Kovy doesn't equate to immediate success unless you have players around him, otherwise Atlanta would be perennial contenders.

he will definitely make a bubble team a playoff team, and an already contender a problem for everyone else.

on the topic, Detroit couldn't sign Kovy unless Holland has more than Black Aces up his sleeve, which he could. But i don't think the Wings want to commit that much money to another long term deal. Especially, with all the free agents coming up in the next few years. If Howard keeps playing the way he has been, and his contract is up soon, he will get a huge raise, and then Osgood will have to after next season, so then we have to bring up another tender or sign a free agent. Not to mention Helm, Holmer, Berts and Williams.

[creedie 2]

MCKENZIE: FLAMES, HAWKS COULD ACTIVELY PURSUE KOVALCHUK

http://tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=307228

I would hate to see him go to the Hawks...

[AtomicPunk 296]

What? Gasp! That's not right! Other teams are interested? NOT FAIR!

[Guest EZBAKETHAGANGSTA]

MCKENZIE: FLAMES, HAWKS COULD ACTIVELY PURSUE KOVALCHUK

http://tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=307228

I would hate to see him go to the Hawks...

The Hawks actually have a good chance at getting him, it works out for all sides. Trade Bfyuglien + Sharp and a few picks for him as a rental. Makes sense for both sides.

How glorious would it be though if the Hawks do this and get ousted in the first round

[Drake_Marcus 890]

No thanks ... Fedorov part duece .. there really isnt any great players I'd pick up .. maybe Torres .. the FA pool for 2010 is s*** .. besides Lidstrom and Kovalchuck

And Fedorov was tied with Jagr(?) for the top playoff point per game rating for the entire 90's. Who wants a clutch playoff performer who helped the Wings win 3 cups?

[bconnan 0]

I find it amusing that people are saying that "Signing a superstar will hurt our depth" but somehow see no reason not to pay Lidstrom a million dollars more than Datsyuk. The Wings are spending $14 million dollars on their first pairing alone.

Kovalchuk is extremely possible to sign, at the very least the "Depth" you're losing is more grinder type players. If it takes losing a player like Cleary, Holmstrom or Filppula why wouldn't you take it?

Some of you are only looking at a Kovalchuk signing in terms of what we lose yet you're missing what we're gaining...

- An insane shot from the point, which will make our PP dramatically better. Ever seen Datsyuk backhand a puck from the goal line to the point on the PP? Kovalchuk would DIE for passes like that consistently.

- 45 goals per season, minimum. From a player who has known chemistry with Datsyuk.

Believe it or not, Lidstrom is replaceable. Hes not the player he once was and the goal is to win games NOW. Not a tromps down memory lane. Sign a defenseman like Kubina or another third or fourth defensive defenseman and put him with Rafalski.

We're winning games with LESS defensive depth right now. I don't understand how the sky is going to fall if we spent a little bit more on goal scoring.

Kovalchuk-Datsyuk-Bertuzzi

Miller-Zetterberg-Franzen

Draper-Helm-Eaves

Leino-Adelkader-Maltby

? - Rafalski

Kronwall - Stuart

Ericsson - Kindl

Howard

Osgood

-------

Kovalchuk - $7,450,000

Datsyuk - $6,700,000

Bertuzzi - $2,500,000

Miller - $800,000

Zetterberg - $6,083,000

Franzen - $3,954,000

Draper - $1,583,333

Helm - $1,000,000

Eaves - $800,000

Leino - $800,000

Abdelkader - $1,000,000

Maltby - $750,000

Rafalski - $6,000,000

UFA D - $3,000,000

Kronwall - $3,000,000

Stuart - $3,750,000

Ericsson - $900,000

Kindl - $883,000

Howard - $716,000

Osgood - $1,416,000

Total cap hit: $53,085,333

Cap space $3,714,667

Thats a hell of a lot of wiggle room after signing quite possibly the best goal scorer in the game. Even if he wants Malkin/Crosby money, we're still under the cap with room to spare.

Edited January 23, 2010 by bconnan

[LeftWinger 5,153]

Bolded the parts that made me laugh hysterically.

Hudler can easily come back; I'd imagine at the very least at the end of his two-year deal in the KHL he'll be back in the winged wheel.

Lidstrom needs to hang them up? Do you seriously watch the games that we play, and specifically watch Lidstrom? Even if he's not the superstar he once was, he's still easily one of the top defenders in the league, and easily top-pair material. I don't expect 80 points out of him, but he should be able to hit 50 points and log tons of ice time. $4-5m to keep him around would be amazing.

Stuart as our #1 defenseman moving forward? Uh, no. It'll be Kronwall, Ericsson, or Kindl. Stuart is 30; he's not going to improve much, if at all at this point, and he still makes plays that are downright retarded. Kronwall is much better both defensively and offensively, and Ericsson and Kindl both have real potential and are fairly young.

talk about laughing hysterically! Kronwall? He can't keep healthy enough to become number 1. Ericsson, maybe, but he has to play with Rafi and Stuart for the next three years. During that time, Stuart WILL be our #1 defensman. Kindl? Kindl? kindl? This season half of our defensive corps were griffins and he couldn't even keep a spot here! Kindl is a bust and will never be higher than a 5 or 6 on this team... Lidstrom needs to retire or resign for CHEAP. We need the cap space to try to better this team. I didn't say Lidstrom sucks,I said he needs to hang em up. He'll be 40 in April and he is showing his age a bit. Great if he comes back for cheap, but if he dilly dally's around too far past July 1st, he'll be doing nothing but screwing Holland out of quality UFA's. The Wings need a sniper.

The reason I said Hudler won't be back is because someone said he'll be back next year. I simply said not for less than half of what he is making now minus taxes as well. He's making US $5M TAX FREE and he was only awarded what, $2.7M? then take taxes off of that, ya, sure he'll be back next year... Ok, go back to laughing hysterically.

It IS entirely possible to offer kovalchuk $8.9M which is what Crosby makes. If he wants more then good on him, but if he would accept it while being the top paid Red Wing, that would leave $4-$5M to re-sign our other FA's. We'd have to bid farewell to some, including Lids, but he is gonna eventually retire, Kovi is only available once, the next contract he signs will probably be one of his last, if not the last one, unless he does a 1 year and out signing somewhere.

We love you Lids, thanks for the memories, but we need your salary to make this team a legit contender again.

Edited January 23, 2010 by LeftWinger

[Theophany 110]

talk about laughing hysterically! Kronwall? He can't keep healthy enough to become number 1. Ericsson, maybe, but he has to play with Rafi and Stuart for the next three years. During that time, Stuart WILL be our #1 defensman. Kindl? Kindl? kindl? This season half of our defensive corps were griffins and he couldn't even keep a spot here! Kindl is a bust and will never be higher than a 5 or 6 on this team... Lidstrom needs to retire or resign for CHEAP. We need the cap space to try to better this team. I didn't say Lidstrom sucks,I said he needs to hang em up. He'll be 40 in April and he is showing his age a bit.

You're hopelessly out of touch. Kronwall has played one less NHL game in the past three years than Stuart, while maintaining a much higher PPG total. Kronwall has roughly a .50 PPG, Stuart has around a .28.

Yes, Stuart is definitely better than Kronwall.

Kindl is on offensive defenseman. He was brought up when we could afford to use him as such, but as he's still being developed (being only 22), he's not ready for any sort of #5/6 role here yet. It'll be a few years, and until then, Meech and Lebda are both fine where they are (though one will be in the press room when Kronwall gets back, obviously).

If you think Stuart is the #1 defenseman of this club moving forward, you're insane. Literally. All the numbers say you're the complete opposite of right.

[Icesurfer 75]

The only way Kovalchuk signs is if he gets one of those long term contracts that can lower the cap number. Wings will not be able to trade Filppula because frankly his cap number is too high for his output. Lidstrom and Homer would have to take a significant pay cut. IMHO Kindl will not be ready from what we have seen of him this year. Personally I believe the Wings will go after Alex Ponikarovsky, Alex Frolov or Rene Bourque (all LW with good size), who will all be free agents, as a partner for Datsyuk and be able to get any one of them for under $5 mil, because Helm, Eaves and Miller will probably get more money than what I have listed here. At any rate here is a possibility:

Pavel Datsyuk — $6,700,000

Henrik Zetterberg — $6,083,333

* Kovalchuk — $6,000,000

Johan Franzen — $3,954,545

Valtteri Filppula — $3,000,000

Daniel Cleary — $2,800,000

* Tomas Holmstrom — $1,600,000

Kris Draper — $1,583,333

* Justin Abdelkader — $1,000,000

* Darren Helm — $950,000

* Patrick Eaves — $875,000

* Drew Miller — $650,000

DEFENSEMEN

Brian Rafalski — $6,000,000

* Nicklas Lidstrom — $4,500,000

Brad Stuart — $3,750,000

Niklas Kronwall — $3,000,000

Jonathan Ericsson — $900,000

* Derek Meech — $525,000

* Doug Janik — $500,000

GOALTENDERS

Chris Osgood — $1,416,666

Jimmy Howard — $716,666

ROSTER SIZE 21

SALARY CAP $56,800,000

PAYROLL $56,504,543

CAP SPACE $295,457

Edited January 23, 2010 by Icesurfer

[Yzerman191 37]

Maybe I've been spoiled in the past, but I feel like a defense with Stuart-Kronwall as the top pair is starting to get thin. The most dominant teams usually have at least one real powerhouse defenseman (Lidstrom, Neidermayer, Pronger, Keith, Gonchar, Chara), and I'm not sure an above-average group with Rafalski, Stuart, Kronwall, Ericsson, and Lilja (if he ever returns) has that. Perhaps depth would make up for the lack of a single elite defenseman, but man was it nice always knowing with absolute certainty we had a guy (Lidstrom) capable of handling literally any situation thrown at us.

As to the above poster: sure, your the numbers in your proposal are under cap, but you've got Miller on the second line. You've rid the team of Holmstrom, Cleary (who has a NMC), and Filppula (a great set-up man and two key guys for creating traffic in front of the net - a key strategy of Babcock's) to make the numbers work. What happens when one or two of the top 5 forwards goes down? Things start looking pretty bleak...

And for the record, I love Kovalchuk, and I'd love to see him as a Red Wing; I'm just a bit skeptical to say the least.

[bconnan 0]

Maybe I've been spoiled in the past, but I feel like a defense with Stuart-Kronwall as the top pair is starting to get thin. The most dominant teams usually have at least one real powerhouse defenseman (Lidstrom, Neidermayer, Pronger, Keith, Gonchar, Chara), and I'm not sure an above-average group with Rafalski, Stuart, Kronwall, Ericsson, and Lilja (if he ever returns) has that. Perhaps depth would make up for the lack of a single elite defenseman, but man was it nice always knowing with absolute certainty we had a guy (Lidstrom) capable of handling literally any situation thrown at us.

As to the above poster: sure, your the numbers in your proposal are under cap, but you've got Miller on the second line. You've rid the team of Holmstrom, Cleary (who has a NMC), and Filppula (a great set-up man and two key guys for creating traffic in front of the net - a key strategy of Babcock's) to make the numbers work. What happens when one or two of the top 5 forwards goes down? Things start looking pretty bleak...

And for the record, I love Kovalchuk, and I'd love to see him as a Red Wing; I'm just a bit skeptical to say the least.

So on the outside chance of forwards getting hurt, you're going to turn down the premier goal scorer in the league in favor of signing three more guys that are good checking line guys but offer nothing to a player like Datsyuk?

Remove Maltby or Leino and keep Cleary it doesn't make a difference. My point was to illistrate that getting Kovalchuk in the off season wouldn't be difficult. And moving Flip would be easy. A second line center at three million per season? Lots of teams would jump at the chance.

Losing Holmstrom really isn't a big loss. The PP has looked better without him quite frankly, because unlike Holmstrom, Bertuzzi can stand in front of the net AND do things away from the crease.

Holmstrom - Retires

Lidstrom - Retires

Filppula - Traded

Maltby - Retires

We have two all star centermen in Datsyuk and Zetterberg. We have two young centerman that are great in their own right and we have Kris Draper. Losing Filppula isn't a huge concern.

Kovalchuk-Datsyuk-Bertuzzi

Cleary-Zetterberg-Franzen

That is a ridiculously solid top six and just around the time Howard needs a new deal, Rafalski and Osgood's contracts will be coming off the books.

Saying that going after Kovalchuk is impossible is just factually wrong. Trading for him will be a problem since Holland hands out no trade clauses like candy but if he decides to become a UFA, we'll be one of the front runners to sign him.

Holland has been known for making a "Splash". Hasek/Hull in 2002, Hossa in 2008, Kovalchuk in 2010.

[Yzerman191 37]

So on the outside chance of forwards getting hurt, you're going to turn down the premier goal scorer in the league in favor of signing three more guys that are good checking line guys but offer nothing to a player like Datsyuk?

Remove Maltby or Leino and keep Cleary it doesn't make a difference. My point was to illistrate that getting Kovalchuk in the off season wouldn't be difficult. And moving Flip would be easy. A second line center at three million per season? Lots of teams would jump at the chance.

Losing Holmstrom really isn't a big loss. The PP has looked better without him quite frankly, because unlike Holmstrom, Bertuzzi can stand in front of the net AND do things away from the crease.

Holmstrom - Retires

Lidstrom - Retires

Filppula - Traded

Maltby - Retires

We have two all star centermen in Datsyuk and Zetterberg. We have two young centerman that are great in their own right and we have Kris Draper. Losing Filppula isn't a huge concern.

Kovalchuk-Datsyuk-Bertuzzi

Cleary-Zetterberg-Franzen

That is a ridiculously solid top six and just around the time Howard needs a new deal, Rafalski and Osgood's contracts will be coming off the books.

Saying that going after Kovalchuk is impossible is just factually wrong. Trading for him will be a problem since Holland hands out no trade clauses like candy but if he decides to become a UFA, we'll be one of the front runners to sign him.

Holland has been known for making a "Splash". Hasek/Hull in 2002, Hossa in 2008, Kovalchuk in 2010.

On the outside chance of forwards getting hurt? Kind of like this year? It does happen, and you have to be ready for it; that's what depth is good for.

I actually agree that, if Kovalchuk were to sign with the 'Wings, Filppula would be expendable. The front two lines aren't the problem; they look terrific (aside from Miller's home on the 2nd line). The back two lines, however, lack considerable depth, and I shudder to think about what it'd start to look like after an injury or two.

Holland indeed made quite a splash in 2002 and 2003 before the salary cap, and again in 2008 (when Hossa came to him with an offer no sane GM could refuse, in the most desirable situation cap-wise). It isn't impossible for Holland to sign Kovalchuk, but it depends on a broad array of factors. Who knows what Kovalchuk wants, be it money, a good hockey market, nice weather, a successful franchise, etc. Financially, it is difficult but possible, similar to the Hossa situation last year.

I think whether it is even a possibility also comes down to Lidstrom; I have a hard time believing Holland would turn down our team captain, and six time Norris winner, if he expresses any desire to return (and he'd be a fool to, anyway).

[bconnan 0]

On the outside chance of forwards getting hurt? Kind of like this year? It does happen, and you have to be ready for it; that's what depth is good for.

I actually agree that, if Kovalchuk were to sign with the 'Wings, Filppula would be expendable. The front two lines aren't the problem; they look terrific (aside from Miller's home on the 2nd line). The back two lines, however, lack considerable depth, and I shudder to think about what it'd start to look like after an injury or two.

Holland indeed made quite a splash in 2002 and 2003 before the salary cap, and again in 2008 (when Hossa came to him with an offer no sane GM could refuse, in the most desirable situation cap-wise). It isn't impossible for Holland to sign Kovalchuk, but it depends on a broad array of factors. Who knows what Kovalchuk wants, be it money, a good hockey market, nice weather, a successful franchise, etc. Financially, it is difficult but possible, similar to the Hossa situation last year.

I think whether it is even a possibility also comes down to Lidstrom; I have a hard time believing Holland would turn down our team captain, and six time Norris winner, if he expresses any desire to return (and he'd be a fool to, anyway).

The bottom six is just fine, the Helm line is great, its a perfect energy line. The fourth line isn't that necessary. Plenty of teams ride three lines, plenty of stars not named Datsyuk and Zetterberg play 23+ minutes a game.

If it comes down to "depth" and by depth I mean a bunch of checking line players vs the greatest natural goal scorer on this team since Brett Hull, its an obvious choice.

Kovalchuk will be a UFA, if he wanted to be a Thrasher it would have been done already. Teams know this, which is why there is going to be an insane bidding war between about four teams for Kovalchuk as a playoff rental. The possibility of any of those teams actually signing him after the playoff run is slim to none.

Chicago can't afford him, trading for Kovalchuk would be a salary dump.

Boston cannot afford him long term but has tons of assets to move if necessary.

Calgary could afford him but they have nine players to re-sign with $11 million to play with, $17 if they move Phaneuf for Kovalchuk.

Washington is an option but I have no clue why Atlanta would trade with a division rival.

LA is really the only team that could trade for Kovalchuk and have a shot at re-signing him next season.

Detroit being one of the teams that could afford Kovalchuk on the free agent market but wont actually trade for him.

If Holland were a competent GM and had this team's best interests in hand, he'd sign Kovalchuk long term instead of Lidstrom from one more year.

[Drake_Marcus 890]

The Hawks actually have a good chance at getting him, it works out for all sides. Trade Bfyuglien + Sharp and a few picks for him as a rental. Makes sense for both sides.

How glorious would it be though if the Hawks do this and get ousted in the first round

Eh? I think you'd have to add a prospect who has actual high-end potential in there. Bfyuglien is essentially role-player and Sharp, while good, is just a top six guy not a potentially elite guy.

Plus that wouldn't account for the cap room.

That being said, I'd love for them to make a stupid deal like that-- there's simply no possible way they could keep him longer than the playoffs so they'd be pissing more depth away (which makes me happy). At least they'd be able to trade that depth in the summer if they had to and they'd get something back other than some fond memories of a cup run they went on and may or may not have succeeded in.

[Drake_Marcus 890]

Believe it or not, Lidstrom is replaceable. Hes not the player he once was and the goal is to win games NOW. Not a tromps down memory lane. Sign a defenseman like Kubina or another third or fourth defensive defenseman and put him with Rafalski.

We're winning games with LESS defensive depth right now. I don't understand how the sky is going to fall if we spent a little bit more on goal scoring.

That's about the funniest thing I've ever read. Lidstrom's current offense? Replaceable. Having the hands-down best defensive player in the league logging 30 mins a night? Not replaceable. Lids is still the best shut-down guy out there and has a frigging +18 on the 2nd lowest scoring team in the West and the current 8th seed. Christ. His offense has seriously dipped but his defense hasn't. If you honestly think that defense is replaceable I just don't know what to say other than ask around and watch other teams play hockey.

I don't mean to be rude but damn man. Come on. You're acting like Lidstrom's current play is mediocre and ignoring the fact that he's still the defensive anchor of this entire team. Take the greatest pure-defensive talent in the history of the game off a team and act like you can shove another cheap part in his place... wow.

Oh, and today's team isn't exactly barking up the Stanley Cup tree. Before you think about shifting around the defense/offense spread look at Wings teams that won cups recently, not the team that's in 8th place.

[Hockeytown0001 7,652]

Chicago would have to give up a lot to get him at the deadline, and there's no way they could afford to sign him during the offseason. He would be a pure rental, and would effectively hurt them in the long run IMO.

[rage 24]

All emotions aside and w/ my Wings' Blinders off; I'd seriously consider trading Zetterberg for Kovalchuck. Not sure if I would, but Kovalchuck is younger will score a ton more, for sure going to be a HOF'er and we would be able to keep Flip as our 2nd line center.

Also, it would be like having Kovalchuck's salary replacing Zetterbergs. So would be in the same cap situation next year anyway, meaning we'd still have $$ to spend to help fill the roster needs even more.

Even if Kovalchuck's cap hit ended up being a little higher than Zetterbergs, I think it'd be worth it.

Okay, everyone can jump me now. LOL. Oh, and for all I know Z has a NTC.

[rage 24]

I mean, that is a pretty bad ass roster and w/ cap room to play with. And the after the 2011 season we'd even have more cap room to play with. I think it'd be a great situation.

PLAYER BONUS CAP HIT

FORWARDS

* Kovalchuck — $6,750,000

Pavel Datsyuk — $6,700,000

Johan Franzen — $3,954,545

Valtteri Filppula — $3,000,000

Daniel Cleary — $2,800,000

* Todd Bertuzzi — $1,800,000

* Tomas Holmstrom — $1,750,000

Kris Draper — $1,583,333

* Darren Helm — $1,100,000

* Patrick Eaves — $950,000

Ville Leino — $800,000

* Drew Miller — $750,000

DEFENSEMEN

Brian Rafalski — $6,000,000

* Nicklas Lidstrom — $5,450,000

Brad Stuart — $3,750,000

Niklas Kronwall — $3,000,000

* UFA DMAN — $2,500,000

Jonathan Ericsson — $900,000

GOALTENDERS

Chris Osgood — $1,416,666

Jimmy Howard — $716,666

BUYOUTS

NONE

LOST VIA REENTRY WAIVERS

NONE

CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS

ROSTER SIZE 20

SALARY CAP $56,800,000

PAYROLL $55,671,210

BONUSES $0

CAP SPACE $1,128,790

AUTO-GENERATED CAPGEEK.COM LINES

FORWARDS

* Kovalchuck ($6.750m) / Pavel Datsyuk ($6.700m) /* Tomas Holmstrom ($1.750m)

Johan Franzen ($3.955m) / Valtteri Filppula ($3.000m)/ * Todd Bertuzzi ($1.800m)

Ville Leino ($0.800m)/ * Drew Miller ($0.750m) / Daniel Cleary ($2.800m)

Kris Draper ($1.583m) / * Darren Helm ($1.100m) / * Patrick Eaves ($0.950m)

DEFENSEMEN

* Nicklas Lidstrom ($5.450m)/ Brian Rafalski ($6.000m)

Brad Stuart ($3.750m) / Niklas Kronwall ($3.000m)

* UFA DMAN ($2.500m) / Jonathan Ericsson ($0.900m)

GOALTENDERS

Chris Osgood ($1.417m) / Jimmy Howard ($0.717m)

CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS

ROSTER: 20; PAYROLL: $55.671m; CAP ROOM: $1.129m BONUSES: $0.000m

[RedArmy 4]

Well - outta those cities you've mentioned above - only Detroit has an NHL franchise that'll field a competitive team on a yearly basis.

If he misses home, and desires Russian culture - then he should go home, and play in the KHL where he'd likely make alot more $$$...If it's the best league - then it's obviously the NHL, and if there's 1 team out there that has had success in the past with his fellow countrymen - then it's Detroit.

well yea obviously only Detroit does, but like I said if you can make a ton of money in a long term deal you might as well enjoy it. I know athletes want to to win and want to compete, but at the same time these are the best years of his young life. You have to enjoy yourself during the season a bit too...

[Guest Lidstromboli]

lol @ zetterberg being traded

[DMAC 25 18]

Who would you like to see added to our blueline?...Phaneuf maybe?

IMHO we could really use a pure sniper like Kovalchuk - however the chances of him signing in Detroit this summer are rather slim at best.

we said that about hossa too and somehow we signed him, but we still have like hank and dats who could be that sniper that we need. hopefully next year they do better than they are right now

[rage 24]

we said that about hossa too and somehow we signed him, but we still have like hank and dats who could be that sniper that we need. hopefully next year they do better than they are right now

Have Z or D ever shown us to be a "Sniper" with the likes of Kovalchuck or Hossa or even Franzen in his recent years? I think not. I don't ever see Dats or Z being tapped a "sniper".

They are 2 of the best 2-way players in the World and can score 30 goals a season, but in no way are they snipers like some of the guys that score 45+ goals a season, nor will they ever be.

Better to just face the facts about our guys.

[DMAC 25 18]

Have Z or D ever shown us to be a "Sniper" with the likes of Kovalchuck or Hossa or even Franzen in his recent years? I think not. I don't ever see Dats or Z being tapped a "sniper".

They are 2 of the best 2-way players in the World and can score 30 goals a season, but in no way are they snipers like some of the guys that score 45+ goals a season, nor will they ever be.

Better to just face the facts about our guys.

ok i guess a person cant just state his own opinion without getting flamed here, awsome. and by the way i know they are 2 of the best 2 way forwards in the world.

[rage 24]

ok i guess a person cant just state his own opinion without getting flamed here, awsome. and by the way i know they are 2 of the best 2 way forwards in the world.

You call that flaming?

You are reading my post as a post with a negative tone then. Not what I intended.

Words are easy to misinterpret on the interwebs. I was not flaming you sir. lol I was just saying that they won't be "snipers" at any point in their career.

If you disagree, I won't consider it flaming.