Who would do better with Datsyuk's ice time

[Drake_Marcus 890]

Lidstrom is earning a million dollars more than Datsyuk this season. And Zetterberg would be making MORE than Datsyuk if he didn't sign an insanely long deal. The point being, Lidstrom isn't playing like his normal self and Zetterberg is on pace for 65 points.

To put all of the blame on Datsyuk is ridiculous.

Lidstrom's been a point per game player over the last 14 games. He's turned things around just fine. If he keeps up the ppg pace he'll finish with a respectable total.

[bconnan 0]

Yeah dude, you're right! Check the following names, please; all are scoring roughly 40-60 points a season and get paid well over $6m:

Bouwmeester, Pronger, Niedermayer, Phaneuf, Campbell (LOL), etc.

Lidstrom can easily get to 40 points this season, putting him in their company. He's also much more solid in all of his defensive play.

Edit: just because Lidstrom isn't going to pound out 80 points this season doesn't mean he's terrible. He's going to take a discount next year if he hangs around (obviously), so calm the hell down. He's still the best in the league, defensively, and he's right up there with the guys I named, offensively.

Other players have nothing to do with the discussion, when Lidstrom regresses or gets visibly worse, his past performance is brought up. If Datsyuk struggles, hes terrible and should be traded but Lidstrom is going to be average and plays "Stellar defensively" so its perfectly fine that the captain of the team and highest paid player isn't playing up to par. While that greedy Russian floats around the ice, tied to the Golden Sweede's(Zetterberg) ankle.

Age, teammates and comparable players were never brought up when he signed a two year deal @ $7.5 per. Lidstrom is being paid to be THE BEST defenseman in the league and he has not, for some time now.

[Theophany 110]

Other players have nothing to do with the discussion, when Lidstrom regresses or gets visibly worse, his past performance is brought up. If Datsyuk struggles, hes terrible and should be traded but Lidstrom is going to be average and plays "Stellar defensively" so its perfectly fine that the captain of the team and highest paid player isn't playing up to par. While that greedy Russian floats around the ice, tied to the Golden Sweede's(Zetterberg) ankle.

Age, teammates and comparable players were never brought up when he signed a two year deal @ $7.5 per. Lidstrom is being paid to be THE BEST defenseman in the league and he has not, for some time now.

Actually, I'd argue that he's the best for what he gets paid, especially in the last 14 or so games. Not many defensemen are PPG players, and play as well on the defensive end as Lidstrom does.

And Datsyuk isn't on my s*** list, for the record. He's been playing well with who he's had on his line. Something is still bothering Zetterberg, but with a not-quite-there Z and Bert to play with, I think Dats has done some good work.

I've also never said Dats is terrible and should be traded; in fact, I insist that anyone that says such things is an idiot and has no idea how to run a hockey team.

[blankrap 9]

If anything Dats should get flips ice time. /end topic

[bconnan 0]

If anything Dats should get flips ice time. /end topic

If anything Datsyuk should be getting more ice time.. Every other super star in the league is routinely playing 24 minutes a game.

[gcom007 1,465]

Good to see logic prevailing and more people rising to the defense of our under-appreciated stars.

Again, anyone suggesting that a) Lidstrom is playing poorly or b) Datsyuk is playing poorly is probably not watching the games.

Anyone who thinks that Z is just "sucking" is probably way off the mark as well. I don't think there's any way the guy is 100%. I don't know what exactly is going on, but this isn't a matter of heart or effort. The guy has never been one to slack at all and it's infinitely more likely that he's still being hampered by injuries.

[Z and D for the C 712]

For the record, I'm not saying Datsyuk is playing poorly, but he's not playing anywhere near his level.

And I was thinking last game that Zetterberg looks slower, so maybe he does have some nagging lower body injury.

Edited January 25, 2010 by Z and D for the C

[gcom007 1,465]

For the record, I'm not saying Datsyuk is playing poorly, but he's not playing anywhere near his level.

And I was thinking last game that Zetterberg looks slower, so maybe he does have some nagging lower body injury.

Playing or producing at his level?

I think he's still playing at his level, but he's just not getting the bounces or breaks that lead to his typical numbers. Again, I don't think anyone can honestly say that he's out there coasting around doing nothing. He's playing great in our end, still robbing guys at every opportunity and creating plenty of great offensive chances.

What do you expect him to do when he's really doing everything right? You don't change what's "right" and what's always worked just because things are cold for awhile. You keep working hard and doing things right and eventually the bounces start going your way.

[Rivalred 630]

Hossa

[Z and D for the C 712]

Playing or producing at his level?

I think he's still playing at his level, but he's just not getting the bounces or breaks that lead to his typical numbers. Again, I don't think anyone can honestly say that he's out there coasting around doing nothing. He's playing great in our end, still robbing guys at every opportunity and creating plenty of great offensive chances.

What do you expect him to do when he's really doing everything right? You don't change what's "right" and what's always worked just because things are cold for awhile. You keep working hard and doing things right and eventually the bounces start going your way.

Both. He is Pavel Datsyuk so even when he's not playing well he looks pretty damn good, but for all of this season Datsyuk just hasn't looked motivated. I'm not saying he is lazy and he sucks but there has been times during games where he does look like he is just coasting out there. Again, he doesn't look bad, but he isn't playing like he should and after him nearly being a 100 point player for 2 seasons, being unlucky doesn't explain him not producing at at least a point per game.

Don't think that I think Filppula having as many points as Datsyuk is a good thing. It's what I've expected out of Filppula but Datsyuk only producing at that level is bad. It's bad for him and more importantly the team. Datsyuk needs to be better and it's more than luck and bounces he needs.

Edited January 25, 2010 by Z and D for the C

[GMRwings1983 8,804]

You know what. I think Fillpulla is just lazy and he sucks.

Close thread.

[Z and D for the C 712]

At least Filppula didn't get knocked out in a fight and then get a concussion from said fight and not play for 12 months.

[GMRwings1983 8,804]

At least Filppula didn't get knocked out in a fight and then get a concussion from said fight and not play for 12 months.

Huh?

I've never been a big Nick Kypreos fan.

I don't know why you'd even bring that up in this dicussion. What does his career ending fight with Vandenbussche have anything to do with this dicussion?

I don't think Fillpulla could have done any better in that fight.

Edited January 25, 2010 by GMRwings1983

[gcom007 1,465]

Both. He is Pavel Datsyuk so even when he's not playing well he looks pretty damn good, but for all of this season Datsyuk just hasn't looked motivated. I'm not saying he is lazy and he sucks but there has been times during games where he does look like he is just coasting out there. Again, he doesn't look bad, but he isn't playing like he should and after him nearly being a 100 point player for 2 seasons, being unlucky doesn't explain him not producing at at least a point per game.

Don't think that I think Filppula having as many points as Datsyuk is a good thing. It's what I've expected out of Filppula but Datsyuk only producing at that level is bad. It's bad for him and more importantly the team. Datsyuk needs to be better and it's more than luck and bounces he needs.

Well, no surprise, but I disagree. I'm glad that you kept Flip separate from the Datsyuk points mostly though as I really don't think any comparison needs to be made.

Earlier in the season I thought there were times where he looked weaker out there, I'll give you that. But I attribute that somewhat to injury as he's looked a lot better for awhile now. I again don't think you're accounting for a few things, specifically how big of a loss Hossa, Samuellson and Hudler was for this team. Add in all of our injuries and our offense is weak as hell and the priority of the team becomes defense.

I think Datsyuk is going to look like a different player when playing with Bert and Holmstrom or an injured Z as opposed to healthy Z and a guy like Hossa. I'm not saying that to knock either, but Hossa's a guy who could out-skate Datsyuk at his best and play at both ends extremely well. Now Datsyuk is stuck with either 2 slower guys or a slower guy and a guy who's likely still hurting. That's going to change the way Datsyuk plays the game somewhat.

And lastly, don't forget, we as a team got weaker before the season began, and then we had all the injuries. Meanwhile, every other team (especially in the West) got a lot better. That is worth noting too.

Considering all that, I'm more than happy with the chances he's been creating lately and his still excellent defensive play. I really think he's done a good job given the circumstances and I think in due time, the points will start going up in a fury. This won't be his biggest and brightest year obviously, but I do think he'll end strong and so long as he's healthy, I look forward to him having a big playoffs.

[Finnish Wing 110]

Filppula's currently on pace for +50 point season (if he had been able to play 82 games). I think that's an improvement. If can play as he does defensively and put up that kinda numbers in the future (I believe he has potential for +60 though) there's no doubt he's earned his salary.

I just don't know whether we should play him as a 2nd line or 3rd line center the rest of the year.

Zetterberg-Datsyuk-Holmstrom

Franzen-Filppula-Bertuzzi

Cleary-Helm-Williams

Miller-Draper-Eaves

+ Maltby, Leino

This could work.

[BlakKy 58]

Just as threads like this pop up Datsyuk posts 6 points in 3 games (3 goals too).

No one on the team can do better with his time.

Edited January 30, 2010 by BlakKy

[Z and D for the C 712]

Zetterberg-Datsyuk-Holmstrom

Franzen-Filppula-Bertuzzi

Cleary-Helm-Williams

Miller-Draper-Eaves

+ Maltby, Leino

This could work.

Especially if we trade for a third line center and keep Helm Draper and Eaves together.

Just as threads like this pop up Datsyuk posts 6 points in 3 games (3 goals too).

And I think my job is here. I know you're reading, so well done Pav.

And it's safe to say that I don't think this anymore, even the next game after I made this he looked 100% better.

Edited January 30, 2010 by Z and D for the C

[NGKEIB 32]

Especially if we trade for a third line center and keep Helm Draper and Eaves together.

And I think my job is here. I know you're reading, so well done Pav.

And it's safe to say that I don't think this anymore, even the next game after I made this he looked 100% better.

Williams can in theory play centre...

[BlakKy 58]

Especially if we trade for a third line center and keep Helm Draper and Eaves together.

And I think my job is here. I know you're reading, so well done Pav.

And it's safe to say that I don't think this anymore, even the next game after I made this he looked 100% better.

We all knew deep down inside he'd pull through.

[Guest zackmorris]

This is why I sometimes hate sports forums online-we're no better than the average dope who is obsessed with bottom lines.

Is Pavs scoring the lights out? No? f*** HIM, put in someone else NOW! NOWNOWNOW!

For the billionth time I'm glad some people here don't run this team. Datsyuk does things that dont' show up on score sheets are is a hell of alot more valuable than some people think. His passing alone warrants his spot. He's the best setup man in the business and quite possibly ever. His vision is just plain unfair and his skating and strength on the puck help set up chances for everyone else.

Incase no one has noticed the turnovers, we have to ask our Selke winners and nominees to play a little more defense than usual. This includes steering away from the Penguin-esque nothing but offense style and backchecking when in doubt, which leads to less points.

[wings7 62]

Hudler is off in Russia. For this threads purposes he may as well not exist.

gcom, if you want to link all the vidoes from each of filppula's and datsyuk's points since Flip has been back, I'd love to watch them.

Leino was benched to send a message because he wasn't putting forth any effort. Why should datsyuk be excused? Flip's play has more than warranted a game playing on the first line and a message needs to be sent. Is it radical? Yes. But more of the same isn't doing anything.

And this has nothing to due with the loss tonight.

Edit: Actually I took a quick look at all of Datsyuk's and Filppula's points since you're so into that stuff, and datsyuk actually has 2 secondary assists to Filppula's 1. OMG!

Listen, you're right. Datsyuk's points have been marginally more "flashy". There is no denying Datsyuk is much more skilled than Filppula but the fact is a point still counts as a point regardless of how hip or cool he looked while doing it, and both Datsyuk and Filppula have the same amount.

When you say things like this, it begs the question, are you either completely moronic, or a troll? You basically compared Leino's struggles to Datsyuk's (which have been there, but he's still producing). Why don't we just bench Franzen too, send him a message that he hasn't produced enough goals from the training room? Unbelievable. Unless, of course, you are actually Filp, then this all makes sense. I'm new to this board, but I notice you jerking Filp off a lot, and it's beginning to get uncomfortable to be around. (So why don't you leave, dude?!?! -- That's what you want to say, right?)

Filp is solid. Not flashy. He can finish about as well as Draper in his prime. Let's not go overboard. Filp is good at backchecking and defense, yet who wins Selke's?

Not to mention, and I didn't read all the posts so maybe this was said, but Datsyuk plays against the best lines every night, be it the other team's best defense or the other team's best offense, depending on the situation. That should be considered when comparing the two, even though there's no reason to.

Filp take Dats minutes, hahahahahahaha.

Edited January 31, 2010 by wings7