Chris Osgood proves Jimmy Howard should be in goal for Red Wings

[Guest zackmorris]

My hope is that we cement 6th or 7th so that Oz can prove once and for all how absolutely cooked he is and the debate can be over.

I was going to say this would end it but I don't even think it will. Ozzie has too strong a group of fans. Even if he totally s***s the bed he'll have people making excuses for him no matter what. I don't think I've ever seen an athlete with the kind of die-hard defend-him-at-any-cost fanbase Ozzie has.

[ltgator333 3]

I was going to say this would end it but I don't even think it will. Ozzie has too strong a group of fans. Even if he totally s***s the bed he'll have people making excuses for him no matter what. I don't think I've ever seen an athlete with the kind of die-hard defend-him-at-any-cost fanbase Ozzie has.

The Most Controversial Player to Ever Play, according to LGW.

I've never seen an athlete with the kind of die-hard-hate-unless-he's-clearly-stellar non-fans as Ozzie.

[voice of Peter Griffin] So what are we gonna do here? [/voice of Peter Griffin]

[Doc Holliday 1,888]

My hope is that we cement 6th or 7th so that Oz can prove once and for all how absolutely cooked he is and the debate can be over.

See, this is what I cannot stand about discussing the issue with you and zack. You guys HOPE that Osgood falters just because there are fans who disagree with you on his performance.

How petty can you be?

[Guest zackmorris]

I don't hope he'll fail, I want the team to win. I'll say this until it sinks in-I want what's best for the Wings. I'm a fan of the logo, not the name on the other side.

If Ozzie at any point gets his s*** together and decides to start showing he should start, awesome. I've backed the guy before. But if he doesn't, the hell with it, keep him out. In the meantime we'll continue to look ridiculous making excuses for a guy with some of the worst numbers in hockey and downplaying a Calder candidate with some of the best numbers around.

[GoWings1905 2,694]

Really? You think Osgood is gonna be back? That's pretty funny. My my my you are one delusional puppy. Here are your meds, let me check under your tongue to make sure you've taken them.

Only way Oz is back is if Jimmie falls down the stairs, the wings get a gap in the standings or hell freezes over. Not necessarily in that order.

My hope is that we cement 6th or 7th so that Oz can prove once and for all how absolutely cooked he is and the debate can be over.

That's pretty pathetic. Hoping a player on the team you supposedly root for fails.

Your arguments are weaker than I thought if that's your premise.

[SouthernWingsFan 854]

So the thought that some would prefer to tell people "I told you so" and rub it in if it comes to Osgood not playing/screwing up over seeing the Wings win has some merit to it. However much you want to believe that, you be the judge, but just check a few of the recent psots on the past page...

Some of you people are really sad. Really, really sad.

Edited February 3, 2010 by SouthernWingsFan

[clutchngrab 12]

Notice I said cement the playoff position. I want the wings to succeed and I think they will as long as Osgood is not in net.

[Doc Holliday 1,888]

I don't hope he'll fail, I want the team to win. I'll say this until it sinks in-I want what's best for the Wings. I'm a fan of the logo, not the name on the other side.

If Ozzie at any point gets his s*** together and decides to start showing he should start, awesome. I've backed the guy before. But if he doesn't, the hell with it, keep him out. In the meantime we'll continue to look ridiculous making excuses for a guy with some of the worst numbers in hockey and downplaying a Calder candidate with some of the best numbers around.

You said you thought that his quote would end the discussion.

And what excuses? That's all you are doing is handwaving saying that "Oh you guys are just making excuses!" Well point out what is silly about comparing Howard's performance against Phoenix to Osgood's in Minnesota, or examples such as this.

And point out what is so silly about getting a 300+ winning goaltender (Who helped the Wings to two straight finals the last two years) back on track with one measly start every 4-6 games. If the Wings make the playoffs they gotta give him some starts eventually, unless you think Howard should be thrown in there over a guy who has performed well in the playoffs over his career.

Notice I said cement the playoff position. I want the wings to succeed and I think they will as long as Osgood is not in net.

Like I said, you wish for Osgood to falter to show all of us that you were right all along. Petty.

Edited February 3, 2010 by Doc Holliday

[GoWings1905 2,694]

Notice I said cement the playoff position. I want the wings to succeed and I think they will as long as Osgood is not in net.

As close as the playoff race is and with so many teams involved, I highly doubt the lower playoffs seeds will be cemented for long enough so you can see Ozzie fail. Even so, what would Ozzie starting in meaningless games prove besides a reason for you to complain more?

[clutchngrab 12]

Some of you people are really sad. Really, really sad.

Some of you people are really really delusional.

Edited February 3, 2010 by clutchngrab

[clutchngrab 12]

Like I said, you wish for Osgood to falter to show all of us that you were right all along. Petty.

Not really. I'm just firmly convinced he's done and does not belong in net anymore. I want to move beyond Chris Osgood as soon as possible. At this point, I think Babcock does as well - but that's speculation.

[SouthernWingsFan 854]

Some of you people are really really delusional.

Find some stuff I specifically stated then saying that Osgood should presently start or will lead us to Heaven.

I'd love to see them.

Pretty much nobody here is saying that Osgood, at present time, should be starter or even start close to half the games. Pretty much everybody here gets, at present time, that Howard is the man between the pipes. Pretty much everybody in here gets that Osgood hasn't played great lately.

To say that the goaltending position though is cemently planted 100% when there is still time before the playoffs start, and when we haven't read any credible sources saying that Howard is the #1 goalie for the rest of the season or Osgood is the backup for the rest of the season, is pre-mature.

That's all I have been saying or thinking all along in these last few posts. If that makes me delusion or an Osgood slappie somehow to you, well that's not my problem.

Wanting Osgood to falter just to prove a point and tell people I told you so is absolutely sad. You are acting petty and f**king pathetic.

Edited February 3, 2010 by SouthernWingsFan

[Doc Holliday 1,888]

Not really. I'm just firmly convinced he's done and does not belong in net anymore. I want to move beyond Chris Osgood as soon as possible. At this point, I think Babcock does as well - but that's speculation.

Your own words were that you want Detroit to be in a playoff spot so that Osgood can play more and show how washed up he is.

You want to see Osgood falter. Your own words. You didn't say you want Osgood to retire. You want to watch him fail.

[StevieY'sguy 1]

I have absolutely nothing against Osgood whatsoever...in fact i will be the first person in line to make a case for him someday being inducted into the hall of fame but the bottom line is that Jimmy Howard is the best goalie on the Red Wings- right now...and right now we just so happen to be in our first fight for a playoff spot in years so we cannot be giving Ozzie consistent minutes waiting for him to pull his head out of his a** assuming the playoffs are a given, especially since he has played like garbage in his spot starts.

I understand that much like a pinch hitter in baseball, it is hard for a goalie to get back on his game if he's not playing almost every night and that it seems unfair but the bottom line here is that the no NHL player is promised fairness when it comes to their career or playing time so if Ozzie stills has it in him to lead this team on another playoff run then he should have no problem "manning up" and focusing on being as sharp as possible when he does get to play.

If things continue as they have been (Howard playing very well and Osgood being mediocre) and we end up with a playoff spot and number 30 is between the pipes in game 1 i will lose a lot of respect for Babcock. This isn't a career comparison here we're talking about this season and barring something unforseen, at this point in time Jimmy Howard deserves to be the starting goalie in the playoffs period.

[clutchngrab 12]

Your own words were that you want Detroit to be in a playoff spot so that Osgood can play more and show how washed up he is.

You want to see Osgood falter. Your own words. You didn't say you want Osgood to retire. You want to watch him fail.

Whatever it takes to move on.

[SouthernWingsFan 854]

I have absolutely nothing against Osgood whatsoever...in fact i will be the first person in line to make a case for him someday being inducted into the hall of fame but the bottom line is that Jimmy Howard is the best goalie on the Red Wings- right now...and right now we just so happen to be in our first fight for a playoff spot in years so we cannot be giving Ozzie consistent minutes waiting for him to pull his head out of his a** assuming the playoffs are a given, especially since he has played like garbage in his spot starts.

I understand that much like a pinch hitter in baseball, it is hard for a goalie to get back on his game if he's not playing almost every night and that it seems unfair but the bottom line here is that the no NHL player is promised fairness when it comes to their career or playing time so if Ozzie stills has it in him to lead this team on another playoff run then he should have no problem "manning up" and focusing on being as sharp as possible when he does get to play.

If things continue as they have been (Howard playing very well and Osgood being mediocre) and we end up with a playoff spot and number 30 is between the pipes in game 1 i will lose a lot of respect for Babcock. This isn't a career comparison here we're talking about this season and barring something unforseen, at this point in time Jimmy Howard deserves to be the starting goalie in the playoffs period.

And I'd be surprised if this happens too if they make the playoffs. And if things keep going the way they do I would start Howard in the playoffs.

But, the only thing that has been decided, or assumed betwen now and then, is that Howard is probably going to continue to get the majority of starts for at least the next few games. That's it. Saying that anything else has happened or that Osgood is finished is making a false start (though the odds are definitely in Howard's favor to start in the playoffs right now if we base it on perfromance).

[interminded 1]

Not really. I'm just firmly convinced he's done and does not belong in net anymore. I want to move beyond Chris Osgood as soon as possible. At this point, I think Babcock does as well - but that's speculation.

I bet you said the same thing last year right around this time.

Quite funny when you think of it.

[clutchngrab 12]

I bet you said the same thing last year right around this time.

Quite funny when you think of it.

Yup, I did. And I contend that he was good - not great - and played way beyond expectations. However I think that was an aberation. At some point you have to go by the evidence in front of your face and not on ancient history or wishful thinking. I think that time is now w/ regards to Osgood.

[Doc Holliday 1,888]

Yup, I did. And I contend that he was good - not great - and played way beyond expectations. However I think that was an aberation. At some point you have to go by the evidence in front of your face and not on ancient history or wishful thinking. I think that time is now w/ regards to Osgood.

And considering that you didn't think Osgood did great in the playoffs (considering the types of praise he received from his coach, teammates, and the media), thought he was washed up one year ago (despite still getting wins), and wish for Osgood to fail for any reason whatsoever really doesn't give much for people to take your word on it.

[clutchngrab 12]

And considering that you didn't think Osgood did great in the playoffs (considering the types of praise he received from his coach, teammates, and the media), thought he was washed up one year ago (despite still getting wins), and wish for Osgood to fail for any reason whatsoever really doesn't give much for people to take your word on it.

So don't. We'll see soon enough - if Babcock lets him play.

[interminded 1]

Yup, I did. And I contend that he was good - not great - and played way beyond expectations. However I think that was an aberation. At some point you have to go by the evidence in front of your face and not on ancient history or wishful thinking. I think that time is now w/ regards to Osgood.

Yes, but as you mentioned, you thought the same thing last year.

And you were wrong.

So maybe (just maaaaaaaaaaaybe..) you're not that convinced.

But you're right, as long as Mike Babcock doesn't give Osgood the time of day (I mean more than one game every 3 weeks), you'll probably never know..

[Vladifan 680]

What I will never understand and probably won't ever have the chance to do, is why you anti-Ozzies feel it's necessary to write him off at all? At this point in time, he IS our other goalie. Why is it even important to you that you suggest his past work was an "aberation", or that he "played way beyond expectations" last year? How does that affect the reality of what's happening in Detroit right now?

In fact some of you have made this point to the point of obsession. Like you (or anyone else) can affect the goalie situation in Detroit. It simply boggles the mind that you persist. Like if you say/write it enough, people will either change their minds or it will change things in Detroit?! Most of us understand that Howard is goalie #1 right now but that is obviously not enough for you.

How is this even relevant to the fact that RIGHT NOW we have two goalies, cannot make trades for a new one, and BOTH of them HAVE to be ready to play. PERIOD. In your minds, I'm trying to figure out what earthly purpose your negativity about Ozzie serves? Where does it take you? Where does it take the team? Why do you persist? Forget it because there is no logical answer.

Bottom line? It's your egos making statements that cannot ever be confirmed or denied; making demands that cannot be fulfilled. You can make presumptive, negative statements about players till your tongues fall out, but it will not affect anything happening to the Detroit Red Wings. Ever.

Edited February 3, 2010 by Vladifan

[KonstantAdvisor 4]

The team is never, ever going to come out and say the things I'm saying. They're his teammates.

Come out and say? Nobody has a hard time admitting Osgood's performance was not good in his last start, including Osgood. You just don't seem to be willing to view the situation objectively. There's no point even discussing the rest of your post. You're in no position to talk about shame when I'm quoting the captain about the team failing the goaltender as well.

I dunno what the hell you're talking about with 1997. Everything I said still stands.

Vernon played 33 games that year, more than any season before for Detroit, despite putting up a much better record the two previous seasons. So apply your logic filter regarding goaltenders and when to bench them/trade them. I'm just referencing what actually happened in the 1996-97 season. Detroit 'just had better players' then? Their coaching sucked? Vernon sucked? That's before we even get to your critique about Osgood's butterfly and how fast he jumps up from the ice.

My point wasn't that these guys were not good goalies, only that the success of goaltender position is a function of the 5 skaters in front of him.

Saying Hextall would have won with a more talented team is not considering how much faith everyone had in the Philadelphia team led by Lindros and others at the time. He had a better shot at winning than Cujo ever did, but making it to the final games is only part of the contest. Saying the goaltender was great and the skaters in front of him weren't good enough isn't telling the whole story. Here is some

- teams that lose their composure usually don't win Stanley Cups either.

My point here is to draw a line between 'Osgood is terrible, as a longstanding opinion' and 'Osgood did not match his capabilities the last few games.' Every game is a test and it can build or undermine confidence well beyond the goalie. When a goaltender wins the Stanley Cup, I think it's a much bigger edge in the playoffs than +0.29 Save% or -0.29 GAA. The goalie's performance is a function of the skaters in front of him plus his own confidence and play on the ice.

I want what's best for the Wings.

If Ozzie at any point gets his s*** together I've backed the guy before. But [since he hasn't], keep him out. In the meantime we'll continue to look ridiculous making excuses for a guy with some of the worst numbers in hockey and downplaying a Calder candidate with some of the best numbers around.

We agree that Osgood played badly in recent games, but you ignore the rest of the season and the team on the ice when you suggest Osgood is done. Osgood proved Howard was the starter already, but when did it become cause to say "Osgood is s***" instead of praising Howard? Is that what you meant to do when you started posting in this thread? It wasn't your intention to go on about why Osgood should never play another game for the Wings after only two starts in thirty days?

Notice I said cement the playoff position. I want the wings to succeed and I think they will as long as Osgood is not in net.

I'd like playoff position to be cemented as well. Your opinion on goaltenders just doesn't make sense - making them look bad doesn't help your team whether you want to trade them or not.

What I will never understand and probably won't ever have the chance to do, is why you anti-Ozzies feel it's necessary to write him off at all? At this point in time, he IS our other goalie. Why is it even important to you that you suggest his past work was an "aberation", or that he "played way beyond expectations" last year? How does that affect the reality of what's happening in Detroit right now?

Howard started 0-2-0 and was 1-8-0 all-time in NHL starts before a comeback against Vancouver (one where Osgood put us in a hole early). This crowd would have been so unbearable if Osgood had not taken some heat during that stretch of injuries and given the younger guys from GR some latitude to make mistakes and learn to play better. Neither Osgood nor Howard looked consistent early on and once Howard picked up steam, I think it was a good plan to keep the focus on getting Osgood ready to play a cold start at playoff level because he still isn't there.

How is this even relevant to the fact that RIGHT NOW we have two goalies, cannot make trades for a new one, and BOTH of them HAVE to be ready to play. PERIOD. In your minds, I'm trying to figure out what earthly purpose your negativity about Ozzie serves? Where does it take you? Where does it take the team?

Some players do respond to being poked, whether a negative or positive response. This year's Osgood drama started when Babcock made comments to the press about Osgood's performance against Chicago in their second game of the regular season. Afterwards they interviewed Osgood, he was candid about his perspective and fans have been giving him grief about how unprofessional he is, weak five hole, lost cause and 'he's s***' ever since. And not distracting our star goaltender when he has an off night. I guess it is win-win for Babcock, but it will be much better win-win for fans if Osgood just wins instead of giving Howard advice. Best examples are made on the ice.

[Vladifan 680]

>>>>

Some players do respond to being poked, whether a negative or positive response. This year's Osgood drama started when Babcock made comments to the press about Osgood's performance against Chicago in their second game of the regular season. Afterwards they interviewed Osgood, he was candid about his perspective and fans have been giving him grief about how unprofessional he is, weak five hole, lost cause and 'he's s***' ever since. And not distracting our star goaltender when he has an off night. I guess it is win-win for Babcock, but it will be much better win-win for fans if Osgood just wins instead of giving Howard advice. Best examples are made on the ice.

My post didn't have anything to do with what Babcock or anyone else within the Wings' organization said to or about Ozzie. I totally agree that's their call, and I would agree it might help him react positively. My post had to do solely with those on this board/thread who obsess over how bad Ozzie is as if their persistence will somehow pay off and not only all of us, but Babcock too will see the light and say that indeed, Ozzie's lazy and he sucks. Ain't.gonna.never.happen.

Meanwhile, most of us on this thread are quite content with believing that yes, Howard is playing great and should be the #1 goalie. But we also logically suggest that most teams need a backup goalie who is ready to play.

[clutchngrab 12]

Yes, but as you mentioned, you thought the same thing last year.

And you were wrong.

So maybe (just maaaaaaaaaaaybe..) you're not that convinced.

But you're right, as long as Mike Babcock doesn't give Osgood the time of day (I mean more than one game every 3 weeks), you'll probably never know..

Yes, I admit I was wrong last year, but I don't think I am this year. Even last year, you have to admit it was a huge gamble starting him in the post season given his regular season record.

There are still a number of people on these boards that believe Osgood should be the starting playoff goaltender based on... I don't know what. I guess ancient history.

Edited February 3, 2010 by clutchngrab