Brad May clears waivers

[Frozen-Man 144]

Staged fights are an important part of enforcing. Nothing says "Fear me, I'm a willing and capable fighter" more than fighting the toughest guys in the league seemingly without cause. If you notice that a guy fights Brashear for fun, you know he's willing to break your head if you mess with one of his teammates.

If May weren't known as a frequesnt and willing fighter, he wouldn't have been able to prevent the cheap stuff that noted hockey experts Mike Babcock and I noticed he prevented.

First off let me say I honestly can't believe you called yourself a hockey expert. Second, to build off Doc's statement

You and I both know your appeal to authority is garbage when the same authority contradicts himself when an enforcer is not in the picture.

Exactly, the only real hockey expert you referenced just sent May through waivers (over guys like Meech and Lebda) and no team took him. Babs obviously didn't think that it was near as important as you keep insisting he does.

Don't misrepresent my position now. I have no problem with fighting in the NHL and believe it has its place. Such as when May went after some Columbus nobody after he was taking liberties and running the Wings. . . . And I think May brought other things to the team than him being an "enforcer".

Exactly, I liked having May on the team. I liked what he brought and thought that he did a great job for what he was paid and the role that he was given. This is not an anti-enforcer post just an anti-dumb statement post.

[uk_redwing 495]

Exactly, the only real hockey expert you referenced just sent May through waivers (over guys like Meech and Lebda) and no team took him. Babs obviously didn't think that it was near as important as you keep insisting he does.

Holland and Babcock have very different views when it comes to enforcers.

[Rick Zombos Ghost 82]

hed really only have to hang out in GR for 20 some games before you could added to the expanded roster. swallow your pride and do it Brad.

[StormJH1 231]

I dont want to see him called up for the playoffs if he isnt gonna play though. Thats just kicking a guy when hes down.

Grand Rapids dont need any more toughness but they could do with some leadership.

I refuse to follow suit with the majority of LGW and pretend like Brad May is some type of tragic figure in Red Wings history. For pete's sake, in September, 90% of the people here knew him as a goon and a cheapshot artist, a washed-up hack whose traditional hockey skills had diminished to the point where his tough guy skills were no longer enough to make him employable.

Then we have a rough October, and suddenly, this guy is the savior who is going to magically improve the toughness of the OTHER 22 guys on the roster and prevent our skill guys from getting injured.

Whoops. Neither of those happened. In fact, if anything, they took a turn in the WRONG direction, because signing a garbage time player like Brad May never had any correlation to those things to begin with.

Brad May had one freakin' point in 40 games for us. He lost his job to a guy claimed off of waivers from Tampa Bay. The team we kept hearing would be "revitalized" if only we could add an enforcer is 5 games under .500 in true record, and 10th place heading into the Olympic break. And his addition deprived some other young player of the opportunity to prove himself on one of the weakest Wings rosters in weakest memory.

And I'm supposed to feel sorry for him? Boo effin' hoo.

[Guest micah]

Exactly, the only real hockey expert you referenced just sent May through waivers (over guys like Meech and Lebda) and no team took him. Babs obviously didn't think that it was near as important as you keep insisting he does.

"Obviously?" If you'd been paying attention, you would know that Babs and I are of the same mind in regards to May. I've been saying for weeks that he should be waived when our injured guys start coming back. When you're defending conference champs and it's October, you should dress an enforcer. When you're in 10th place in the middle of Feb and you're struggling to make the playoffs, you need every goal you can get and the gamble of not carrying an enforcer in hopes that you might get a few more goals is reasonable.

Priorities. Men who are not sure how they will aford their next meal do not buy health insurance.

[Frozen-Man 144]

Holland and Babcock have very different views when it comes to enforcers.

Oh I would definitely agree with that. I think that Babs likes having an enforcer much more than Kenny does (I don't think Kenny is against them I think he just wants them to be well rounded players as well). My point is that there is no way that Babs didn't have a very large say in who got waived and if he had not wanted May to have been waived I don't think that he would have been. I think Babcock probably has a lot of sway, once players are under contract and on the team, as to what happens with them. The point is that Babcock like all good coaches, GMs, players, and team specific analysts always looks at the positives of the players currently on their team. That is why when the Wings don't have an enforcer Babcock and Kenny talk about how the power play is the most important deterrent or that a player's skill is the most important. However, when the Wings have an enforcer dressed for most of the season (or right after they sign a guy almost exclusively for the purpose of being an enforcer) they talk about how important it is that a team have an enforcer to help limit cheap shots and brush the flies away. All teams and all coaches do this, it is part of playing the game and selling the product you are putting on the ice. The purpose of my comment was Micah's insistence that he is a hockey expert and that Mike Babcock and he are of the same mind because when the team signed and dressed an enforcer he made comments similar to what Micah always espouses but Micah just glosses over the fact that he is the player waived by Kenny, Babs, and Co. (and I do think that Babcock could have kept it from happening if he thought it was best to keep May) and that last year when the team had Downey down in GR rather than up with the Wings (for the most part) Babs talked as if having an enforcer was not that big of a deal. It is the cherry picking and contradiction that Micah glosses over that I was pointing out.

"Obviously?" If you'd been paying attention, you would know that Babs and I are of the same mind in regards to May. I've been saying for weeks that he should be waived when our injured guys start coming back. When you're defending conference champs and it's October, you should dress an enforcer. When you're in 10th place in the middle of Feb and you're struggling to make the playoffs, you need every goal you can get and the gamble of not carrying an enforcer in hopes that you might get a few more goals is reasonable.

Priorities. Men who are not sure how they will aford their next meal do not buy health insurance.

See my comments above.

[GMRwings1983 8,804]

I refuse to follow suit with the majority of LGW and pretend like Brad May is some type of tragic figure in Red Wings history. For pete's sake, in September, 90% of the people here knew him as a goon and a cheapshot artist, a washed-up hack whose traditional hockey skills had diminished to the point where his tough guy skills were no longer enough to make him employable.

Then we have a rough October, and suddenly, this guy is the savior who is going to magically improve the toughness of the OTHER 22 guys on the roster and prevent our skill guys from getting injured.

Whoops. Neither of those happened. In fact, if anything, they took a turn in the WRONG direction, because signing a garbage time player like Brad May never had any correlation to those things to begin with.

Brad May had one freakin' point in 40 games for us. He lost his job to a guy claimed off of waivers from Tampa Bay. The team we kept hearing would be "revitalized" if only we could add an enforcer is 5 games under .500 in true record, and 10th place heading into the Olympic break. And his addition deprived some other young player of the opportunity to prove himself on one of the weakest Wings rosters in weakest memory.

And I'm supposed to feel sorry for him? Boo effin' hoo.

Actually, May had a good effect on the team which your anti-enforcer rant failed to acknowledge.

We've had less teams play dirty against us this year than I can ever remember before. Less scrums after whistles and less teams trying to take advantage of our players. Also, teams don't dress enforcers very often against us than they did in prior years. I think May did his job somewhat in being a tough guy in the lineup that could keep the flies off the star players.

It's not his fault the team has struggled this season. Also, he isn't taking playing time away from anyone. Everyone has gotten a chance to play this year with the injuries. He isn't depriving anyone of anything.

Your whole post was just bad all around. At least you didn't say Brad May was responsible for Ozzie's decline as well as the struggling economy in Detroit.

Edited February 15, 2010 by GMRwings1983

[RedFX 48]

I refuse to follow suit with the majority of LGW and pretend like Brad May is some type of tragic figure in Red Wings history. For pete's sake, in September, 90% of the people here knew him as a goon and a cheapshot artist, a washed-up hack whose traditional hockey skills had diminished to the point where his tough guy skills were no longer enough to make him employable.

Then we have a rough October, and suddenly, this guy is the savior who is going to magically improve the toughness of the OTHER 22 guys on the roster and prevent our skill guys from getting injured.

Whoops. Neither of those happened. In fact, if anything, they took a turn in the WRONG direction, because signing a garbage time player like Brad May never had any correlation to those things to begin with.

Brad May had one freakin' point in 40 games for us. He lost his job to a guy claimed off of waivers from Tampa Bay. The team we kept hearing would be "revitalized" if only we could add an enforcer is 5 games under .500 in true record, and 10th place heading into the Olympic break. And his addition deprived some other young player of the opportunity to prove himself on one of the weakest Wings rosters in weakest memory.

And I'm supposed to feel sorry for him? Boo effin' hoo.

Not to mention he's the one that but the bounty on Steve Moore

[newfy 695]

Not to mention he's the one that but the bounty on Steve Moore

Your point? I doubt he said break his neck.

Man people on this site are actually some of the softest people I've ever seen type soemthing. May did his job and like was stated earlier in October when you're getting for a long grind he's good to have around. At teh ehnd of the season when youre making a push for the playoffs obviously he is going to be the one waived.

And whoever is saying he was going to prevent injuries and are saying he didn't do his job because our team got injured, are you just trying to make your point by using that stat or are you just stupid?

May was brought here to prevent injuries from cheapshots from other teams tough guys, he can't prevent Mule from straining his MCL.

[Frozen-Man 144]

Your whole post was just bad all around. At least you didn't say Brad May was responsible for Ozzie's decline as well as the struggling economy in Detroit.

[GMRwings1983 8,804]

Not to mention he's the one that but the bounty on Steve Moore

So?

For all you know, Wings players in the past have put bounties on other heads as well.

If you're not going to ***** about Bertuzzi being on the team, you certainly shouldn't bring May's name up. He wasn't the guy that did the act.

[Hockeytown0001 7,652]

So?

For all you know, Wings players in the past have put bounties on other heads as well.

If you're not going to ***** about Bertuzzi being on the team, you certainly shouldn't bring May's name up. He wasn't the guy that did the act.

I'm sure many of the Wings did that to Lemieux back in the day.

[Guest micah]

See my comments above.

I saw them. They didn't address what I said in the post you quoted. May - and by May, I really mean dedicated fighters - perform a service, they provide a certain level of insurance against cheapshots. If Babs and co didn't think so, guys May would never have played a game for us. They also tend to be substandard hockey players. Teams that are bottom dwellers can aford enforcers to protect their stars, they aren't going anywhere. Teams that are great can aford enforcers to protect their stars, they'll win games no matter who plays LW on the 4th line. Teams that are just below the middle of the pack in the standings cannot afiord the luxury of a dedicated enforcer - when you're struggling to even make the post season, you have to gamble a bit.

[StormJH1 231]

Actually, May had a good effect on the team which your anti-enforcer rant failed to acknowledge.

We've had less teams play dirty against us this year than I can ever remember before. Less scrums after whistles and less teams trying to take advantage of our players. Also, teams don't dress enforcers very often against us than they did in prior years. I think May did his job somewhat in being a tough guy in the lineup that could keep the flies off the star players.

It's not his fault the team has struggled this season. Also, he isn't taking playing time away from anyone. Everyone has gotten a chance to play this year with the injuries. He isn't depriving anyone of anything.

Your whole post was just bad all around. At least you didn't say Brad May was responsible for Ozzie's decline as well as the struggling economy in Detroit.

Brad May's impact on "other teams" playing dirty against us is only marginally more significant than his impact on Detroit's struggling economy. And I never said that he was the reason the team played poorly, though I did say before we signed him that signing him would do nothing to make the team play better (and it hasn't).

So, you think that having Brad May in the lineup makes other teams less likely to dress their enforcers? Really? Answer me this: If the Wild are playing Detroit, and there's no Brad May in the lineup, is there a single guy on the Wings' roster that would fight a guy like Derek Boogaard, who is 6'8" 260 pounds? So the point of dressing Boogaard against the Wings would be....???

Go to YouTube and type in "Kronwall" and "Laraque", and then remind me how teams suddenly stopped cheap shotting the wings after good ole' Brad May suited up for us. It simply didn't happen.

And arguing this point with Brad May worshipers only serves to fan the fire because this is way more attention than any Wings player who is lucky to get 7 minutes of ice time deserves. The reason I argue the point anyway is that it feeds into this idea that you can just add toughness by throwing goons on the 4th line who barely play, yet supposedly "deter" everyone else on the ice from playing their normal game. This is patently false. The 07-08 Wings fought 11 times all year (IIRC) en route to a Stanley Cup. They did it with a finesse roster with predominantly European stars. Now we're supposed to believe that two years later, the Wings (having subtracted Hudler, Hossa, and Samuelsson from last year's team and ADDING Todd Bertuzzi) are somehow not tough enough, and that has to be the reason they aren't as good. Except that doesn't make any sense.

[StormJH1 231]

I saw them. They didn't address what I said in the post you quoted. May - and by May, I really mean dedicated fighters - perform a service, they provide a certain level of insurance against cheapshots. If Babs and co didn't think so, guys May would never have played a game for us. They also tend to be substandard hockey players. Teams that are bottom dwellers can aford enforcers to protect their stars, they aren't going anywhere. Teams that are great can aford enforcers to protect their stars, they'll win games no matter who plays LW on the 4th line. Teams that are just below the middle of the pack in the standings cannot afiord the luxury of a dedicated enforcer - when you're struggling to even make the post season, you have to gamble a bit.

See, and I agree with FrozenMan's earlier point that even if you have great respect for Mike Babcock, you can't pull old quotes given to the media and use them to justify a player's role on the team. Again, Brad May had 1 point in 40 games, so if your coach obviously can't point to his scoring to justify his role on the team, he's going to have to point something positive. If that "something" was positive enough, May doesn't lose his job before some other guys that could've been axed instead.

And the "service" that you refer to is the service of "fighting," which creates a perceived toughness for the fans and maybe some occasional morale for the players. But you can't add "toughness" to the identity of a team by adding guys that go unclaimed by 29 other NHL teams on the waiver wire. If you had a team that was slow, you don't solve your team speed problem by adding Brett Lebda or Stacey Roest, because neither of those guys are going to play a significant enough role on your team to supplant the guys who actually get minutes and are still slow.

I don't think the Wings have a toughness problem. I think they a defensive problem. I think they have an age problem, and a secondary scoring problem. When Lilja got his face bashed in by Shea Weber, which caused depth issues for us in last year's playoffs and derailed his career, he was fighting in 5-0 game that Detroit was going to lose anyway. This fighting stuff is a sideshow. It's entertaining and sometimes it sends a message, but it ultimately has nothing to do with the success of a team, as Detroit has proven time and time again.

[Guest micah]

Go to YouTube and type in "Kronwall" and "Laraque", and then remind me how teams suddenly stopped cheap shotting the wings after good ole' Brad May suited up for us. It simply didn't happen.

Dear Sir,

Brad May was not dressed durring that game.

signed,

Everyone who pays attention to the Wings

And arguing this point with Brad May worshipers only serves to fan the fire because this is way more attention than any Wings player who is lucky to get 7 minutes of ice time deserves. The reason I argue the point anyway is that it feeds into this idea that you can just add toughness by throwing goons on the 4th line who barely play, yet supposedly "deter" everyone else on the ice from playing their normal game. This is patently false. The 07-08 Wings fought 11 times all year (IIRC) en route to a Stanley Cup. They did it with a finesse roster with predominantly European stars. Now we're supposed to believe that two years later, the Wings (having subtracted Hudler, Hossa, and Samuelsson from last year's team and ADDING Todd Bertuzzi) are somehow not tough enough, and that has to be the reason they aren't as good. Except that doesn't make any sense.

Okay, you have no argument so you're just making things up to argue against now. Who specifically said that this year the Wings are not good because they aren't tough enough?

[Guest micah]

See, and I agree with FrozenMan's earlier point that even if you have great respect for Mike Babcock, you can't pull old quotes given to the media and use them to justify a player's role on the team.

Do you think that May was brought in for some reason other than the reason Babcock gave for bringing hiom in? If so, what?

[GMRwings1983 8,804]

Brad May's impact on "other teams" playing dirty against us is only marginally more significant than his impact on Detroit's struggling economy. And I never said that he was the reason the team played poorly, though I did say before we signed him that signing him would do nothing to make the team play better (and it hasn't).

So, you think that having Brad May in the lineup makes other teams less likely to dress their enforcers? Really? Answer me this: If the Wild are playing Detroit, and there's no Brad May in the lineup, is there a single guy on the Wings' roster that would fight a guy like Derek Boogaard, who is 6'8" 260 pounds? So the point of dressing Boogaard against the Wings would be....???

Go to YouTube and type in "Kronwall" and "Laraque", and then remind me how teams suddenly stopped cheap shotting the wings after good ole' Brad May suited up for us. It simply didn't happen.

And arguing this point with Brad May worshipers only serves to fan the fire because this is way more attention than any Wings player who is lucky to get 7 minutes of ice time deserves. The reason I argue the point anyway is that it feeds into this idea that you can just add toughness by throwing goons on the 4th line who barely play, yet supposedly "deter" everyone else on the ice from playing their normal game. This is patently false. The 07-08 Wings fought 11 times all year (IIRC) en route to a Stanley Cup. They did it with a finesse roster with predominantly European stars. Now we're supposed to believe that two years later, the Wings (having subtracted Hudler, Hossa, and Samuelsson from last year's team and ADDING Todd Bertuzzi) are somehow not tough enough, and that has to be the reason they aren't as good. Except that doesn't make any sense.

May didn't play in the game Kronwall was cheapsotted, which was ironically the only injury all year to occur from a cheapshot.

In 2008 we had some tough guys on our 4th line like Downey, Drake and McCarty most notably. They didn't play many minutes, but no 4th liner does. Those guys did set a good example with their checking and intensity, and as a result the entire team played with more grit than they did in previous seasons, despite the rest of the roster being similar.

Oh and the point of dressing Boogaard without May would be to run Wings players and try to intimidate them. If you don't think intimidation can occur in hockey to pro athletes, then you give them too much credit and haven't been watching hockey for a long time.

Lastly, nobody is saying this team is struggling because it's not tough enough. This whole thread has flared up because people like yourself couldn't resist talking about how useless May and enforcers are in general. You rocked the boat, so now several posters are rocking it back. The pro-enforcer posters are just saying that we'll miss seeing May in the lineup as a guy that could drop the gloves from time to time.

[Frozen-Man 144]

I saw them. They didn't address what I said in the post you quoted. May - and by May, I really mean dedicated fighters - perform a service, they provide a certain level of insurance against cheapshots. If Babs and co didn't think so, guys May would never have played a game for us. They also tend to be substandard hockey players. Teams that are bottom dwellers can aford enforcers to protect their stars, they aren't going anywhere. Teams that are great can aford enforcers to protect their stars, they'll win games no matter who plays LW on the 4th line. Teams that are just below the middle of the pack in the standings cannot afiord the luxury of a dedicated enforcer - when you're struggling to even make the post season, you have to gamble a bit.

My "ee my comments above" statement was in reference to my comment above in the same post, sorry if that wasn't clear. The point I am making is that Babcock has said enforcers are important and helpful when we had one signed and planned on playing him a fair bit, however, the point you never talk about is that he said roughly the opposite in previous years when he was not dressing an enforcer. For you to act as if you and Babcock are simpatico because you chose to ignore some of his statements and only acknowledge other comments that happen to fit your predetermined stance is an intellectually dishonest argument.

[Bring Back The Bruise Bros 1,029]

Brad May's impact on "other teams" playing dirty against us is only marginally more significant than his impact on Detroit's struggling economy. And I never said that he was the reason the team played poorly, though I did say before we signed him that signing him would do nothing to make the team play better (and it hasn't).

So, you think that having Brad May in the lineup makes other teams less likely to dress their enforcers? Really? Answer me this: If the Wild are playing Detroit, and there's no Brad May in the lineup, is there a single guy on the Wings' roster that would fight a guy like Derek Boogaard, who is 6'8" 260 pounds? So the point of dressing Boogaard against the Wings would be....???

Go to YouTube and type in "Kronwall" and "Laraque", and then remind me how teams suddenly stopped cheap shotting the wings after good ole' Brad May suited up for us. It simply didn't happen.

And arguing this point with Brad May worshipers only serves to fan the fire because this is way more attention than any Wings player who is lucky to get 7 minutes of ice time deserves. The reason I argue the point anyway is that it feeds into this idea that you can just add toughness by throwing goons on the 4th line who barely play, yet supposedly "deter" everyone else on the ice from playing their normal game. This is patently false. The 07-08 Wings fought 11 times all year (IIRC) en route to a Stanley Cup. They did it with a finesse roster with predominantly European stars. Now we're supposed to believe that two years later, the Wings (having subtracted Hudler, Hossa, and Samuelsson from last year's team and ADDING Todd Bertuzzi) are somehow not tough enough, and that has to be the reason they aren't as good. Except that doesn't make any sense.

Before you go on your anti-enforcer bitching parade,get your facts straight.The 2007-2008 Wings fought 20 times en route to a Stanley Cup.And just because Detroit didn't fight 100 times in 2007-2008 doesn't mean they didnt have guys that took the other team's players off their game.Dallas Drake(not afraid to fight,but not a goon) was an effective grinder and an important piece to the lineup.So dont tell me that our Cup Championship was won simply by finesse.thats bulls***.And by the way,the whole Laraque cheapshot on Kronwall took place when Brad May was a healthy scratch.Get your s*** straight before you *****.