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Oh How I Hate the Capitals


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#61 cusimano_brothers

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Posted 30 March 2010 - 04:02 PM

For a brief moment you're paying respect to your country, you have the rest of the evening to root for your team. Not to get all Uncle Sam and Apple Pie on your ass, but that is a pet peeve of mine.

This might stir the return of "Pat Honda".

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#62 Wings Rule Crysby Drools

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Posted 30 March 2010 - 04:18 PM

I also think Joe Beninati has a horrdenous voice.


I agree.

#63 Frozen-Man

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Posted 30 March 2010 - 06:05 PM

If you are going to be a ****** and attempt to belittle his opinion based on specific players he watches, then do it in a thread involving the player in question.

If you really can't help it, then just ignore him. It makes your life much easier and everyone else doesn't have to watch you get all pissy because Carman the "Crosby troll" said something you don't like.


Wow, quite the attack, we have always had civil posts in the past, sorry whatever I did pissed you off so bad. I don't think there was a need to delve into name calling or state that everyone had to watch me get all pissy (which is pretty pissy itself and ignores the fact that my post was polite and that I even acknowledged that his favorite player was "exceedingly talented.") but whatever. I was not attempting to belittle his opinion at all I was honestly questioning how he "cannot stand the Capitals because of one person, and one person only." He cannot stand the Capitals solely because of Boudreau and partially because Boudreau whines. I acknowledged in my post Crosby was talented but was curious of how he could reconcile disliking a coach because he whines and yet think Crosby is the greatest thing going. He answered the question and had a reasonable explanation for his sentiments, Crosby gets a pass to some degree in his book because he is in his early 20s whereas Boudreau is 60. I was genuinely asking, partially because I wish I could like Crosby, I think he is amazingly talented but cannot stand that he always seems to be whining. It was a simple question based upon his post and previous posts, it received a legitimate answer from Carmen I don't see what your problem was, but again sorry it bothered you so much.

edit: grammar

Edited by Frozen-Man, 30 March 2010 - 06:07 PM.

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#64 HOCKEY MATTERS

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Posted 31 March 2010 - 07:20 AM

What's with all the "nice"? ^^^^ Drop the frickkin gloves, already! lol.
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#65 Carp

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Posted 31 March 2010 - 08:58 AM

Good thread.

Re:

So I guess if you wanna hate, hate the system, not the team. Obviously, nothing's proven until the playoffs are over, and it could wind up that Boudreau's system never sees success in the playoffs and never produces a Cup. But for now, it'd be a shame not to enjoy the most exciting team in the sport.


I don't believe the problem lies with the team. I to am trapped in the DC area watching more Caps games than RW is just a fact of life out here and while we'd all prefer to watch the Wings the Caps play a good game (for the most part).

The problem is with the 'fans' in the DC area. Many of the new Caps 'fans' are free agent Redskins fans and the have brought along their irritating and infantile behavior (if they win a game their destined to be 'world champs' for the next decade, but if the lose a game all is lost, trade everyone fire the coaches and start rebuilding tonight.) They lack any fundamental knowledge of the rules, customs and traditions, and they demonstrate no desire to gain a proper understanding. I actually had a 'conversation' with a couple of Caps fans claiming to be 'Hockey Buffs.' They didn't know the Caps had ever been to the Finals and then refused to believe that the Caps could have been swept by the Wings (they used this years standings as evidence!?)

I grant that all teams have regrettable fans, but since the switch to red sweaters and Ovie's arrival it has become increasingly the norm.
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#66 Nightfall

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Posted 31 March 2010 - 09:46 AM

Good thread.

Re:

I don't believe the problem lies with the team. I to am trapped in the DC area watching more Caps games than RW is just a fact of life out here and while we'd all prefer to watch the Wings the Caps play a good game (for the most part).

The problem is with the 'fans' in the DC area. Many of the new Caps 'fans' are free agent Redskins fans and the have brought along their irritating and infantile behavior (if they win a game their destined to be 'world champs' for the next decade, but if the lose a game all is lost, trade everyone fire the coaches and start rebuilding tonight.) They lack any fundamental knowledge of the rules, customs and traditions, and they demonstrate no desire to gain a proper understanding. I actually had a 'conversation' with a couple of Caps fans claiming to be 'Hockey Buffs.' They didn't know the Caps had ever been to the Finals and then refused to believe that the Caps could have been swept by the Wings (they used this years standings as evidence!?)

I grant that all teams have regrettable fans, but since the switch to red sweaters and Ovie's arrival it has become increasingly the norm.

I find it funny that some members of the LGW forum are calling out the Caps fans. Especially considering there are a good portion of LGW fans that were willing to throw the team under the bus when they faced adversity this season. IMHO, true fans don't do that to their team. There are some members in this forum that showed their true colors. There is a small part of me that wished the Wings would have tanked this season and missed playoffs just so the bandwagon fans would have left and not come back.

That being said, I will say this about the Caps fans. They are passionate and enjoy a good show. That is what the Caps bring every night. A lot of their fans are new, and I am not going to hold that against them. Heck, I was a new fan back in 1995 when I first started watching hockey. Everyone has to start somewhere.

I am not going to judge new fans of a team. Rather, I will see how the fans support the team years later. Look at the Tampa Bay Lightning. They make a cup run, the place fills up. Now, their attendance is starting to struggle again. People love a winner, but the bandwagon fans will leave once as the team starts to struggle. Then, when you go see a Caps game, you will meet the fans who know the team and players and love the sport.

Case in point on the Lightning, I have a friend who is 68 and retired. He never saw a hockey game before. I took him to a Tampa Bay Lightning game the year before they won the cup and he was a fan. Today, he goes to about 10 lightning games a year and watches them all on TV when he can't go. He is a hockey fan and a bolts fan today. He hated the bandwagon fans that supported the team and then left after the team sucked. He said that it is a lot of fun being a fan today because when he goes to see a game, a vast majority of the other people in the arena are true Bolts fans or hockey fans. Unlike a few years ago when there were people he would sit by that wouldn't know the rules or know anything about hockey.

In conclusion, give these fans a chance. Some of them will be great hockey fans and caps fans a few years from now. Just gotta give them time. :)
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#67 Travis

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Posted 31 March 2010 - 09:52 AM

Especially considering there are a good portion of LGW fans that were willing to throw the team under the bus when they faced adversity this season. IMHO, true fans don't do that to their team. There are some members in this forum that showed their true colors.


I agree with this, big time.

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#68 Frozen-Man

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Posted 31 March 2010 - 11:08 AM

What's with all the "nice"? ^^^^ Drop the frickkin gloves, already! lol.


:lol:

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#69 TheOctopusKid

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Posted 31 March 2010 - 11:24 AM

For the third segment, I had originally intended to script a handful of interactions that I've had with Capitals Fans and some actually with the players but I believe that the majority of the DC Metro residents on this board have accurately portrayed what we endure on a nigh-daily basis.

Instead I'll respond to smattering of the posts that have been appears throughout the coversation thus far -

hooon:

As I said in my earlier post... stop going to the games if you are this sensitive about fans being fans. Get over it, man.


The cries to ignore them or to avoid it - yes, that would be the most logical option however not really a possibility. Living directly in the heart of the city, it makes it almost impossible to not encounter a car covered in stickers and blasts the quinessential *BEEP* BEEP *BEEEEEEP* which is promptly followed by a "Let's Go Caps!" from everyone in earshot. When you turn on the morning news to see constant updates on the Capitals practice or last night's highlights. To open a newspaper and see the Flaming Bird logo on the front page.

When Washington says "Caps Fever", it is quite literal. This town (which is certainly a positive) is in the throes of mania. Any sports bar within two miles of this city is chalk full of Capitals jerseys, chanting fans, and the inevitable insanity of conversations like "Ovechkin is better than Gretzky" (Sigh), "Mike Green is the Best Defenseman in the League" (who doesn't play defense), "This team could score 5 goals a game if they wanted to" (then why are they losing), and my personal favorite, "How many goals the Capitals would win by against Team Canada if they played each other"(The answer was 2 if you're curious). All topics from last night when the played the Senators.

I went to dinner with my girlfriend and overheard the first two topics and then preceeded to the bar to meet some friends to watch the end of the Red Wings game and heard the last two conversations and without trying to hear anything but the Red Wings game. The only viable option to avoid Capitals is to sequester yourself in your own home. I would imagine that any person in the Baltimore, Virginia, or DC areas would most likely be able to add to this.


kook_10:

The truth is that in many or even most US markets a star player will get a lot of newbies to the game. Us vets may not want to suffer them, but thats the price of having an Ovechkin or a Crosby or a Gretzky. The upside is that many of those new (currently hockey dumb) fans will share their love for the game with their kids, who will play. California probably has 5-8x as many teams now as there were when I played, and can consistently put together national level youth teams. So long as Ovi is around and doing what he does, the DC area will without a doubt enjoy an expansion its hockey base too. That's a good thing. Does that mean you have to like the people? No.


I agree with this statement completely and fully. It is actually the same justification that I use to defend players like Crosby. They improve the overall visibility of the league and the sport and encourage participation and interest of new fans. Ovechkin is a galvanizing star and his freakish talents, flair for theatrics, and what appears to be an honest yearning to improve his play and become a champion is admirable. More so, my colleague whom I work with (and is a Capitals fan from the 80's) has a 6 year old son who plays hockey solely because he wants to be Mike Green. Not exactly the guy I would've chosen to emulate but Hey! The Capitals helped a kid find a great sport and hopefully lead to a long and rewarding relationship with the sport we all love. That can never be bad. But like you qualified, during this rapid expansion of interest it has a way of producing a lot of unfortunate and poorly intended "fans" - which appear to be the rule, not the exception.

Washington DC is a unique place, socially and culturally. This is a direct result of the amalgamation of so many unique backgrounds from all over the country. People move in and move out as quickly as anywhere. As a direct result, the fan base is also incredibly transcient. Fans come and they go in the city proper. You will find more consistency in the suburbs of Virginia and Maryland but the city is where much of the fan base resides - particularly 22-40 year old, urban professionals who can afford the games and have reasonable access. Since the period in which the crowds are here, the grab on to a hot franchise and move with it. The better the team, the more random fans it will collect and so forth. Actually not much different than what I did when I adopted the Caps a few years ago. So any level of consistency becomes difficult because they is absoluetly no loyalty to these franchises as there is very little loyalty to Washington DC. The Capitals fans of 1998 are several iterations of fan groups till they turned around in 2006. And when the Caps become "bad", the fans will leave and it will start all over again. Expansion of DC Sports is difficult because your fan base is always changing. It doesn't have the retention of a Buffalo, Pittsburgh, and Detroit till recently.

The fan base becomes a product of desperate sports fans looking for some outlet for the next 2-3 years that they live here and take it to an unnecessary extreme. The possibility that this could grow into a long standing fan base? Doubtful

Nightfall:

That being said, I will say this about the Caps fans. They are passionate and enjoy a good show. That is what the Caps bring every night. A lot of their fans are new, and I am not going to hold that against them. Heck, I was a new fan back in 1995 when I first started watching hockey. Everyone has to start somewhere.


Exactly the sentiment I shared two seasons ago. I am more than happy to give the benefit of the doubt. We were all new to this game at some point and it was attending a handful of games, watching them on TV, reading what we could that we began to familarize ourselves and really foster a true love for the sport. However, in all my years I don't remember ever going out of my way before I even knew the playoff format or the names on an opposing team and proclaim to all the world my never ending love for the Red Wings and how stupid and terrible every other franchise was. In fact, since you seem to be a magnanimous and reasonable fellow, that in 1995 you didn't randomly call out a Canadians fan as "f*gs" and rally a group around him chanting "Let's Go Caps" (poor kid). A Canadians fan? Really?

I forgot who said it earlier, but the Verizon center (and by proxy the related sports bar...Green Turtle I'm looking you general direction) are no longer hospitable places to be. Be cognizant on who votes for the Norris Trophy before you tell me Lidstrom is a joke and "Green was robbed by the other GMs because they are jealous they don't have him," or that "Yzerman doesn't know anything about hockey otherwise he would've picked Green for Team Canada," because he's "twice the player Yzerman ever was".

Like I said earlier - zeal, or passion not tempered by knowledge or respect leads down an ugly path. This has unfortunately gotten worse over time, not better. The fan base seems louder and more ignorant than they did only two seasons ago. The genuine air of excitment and eagerness to learn the game has been replaced with whining, entitlement, and arrogance and that is very unfortunate. Yes, I suspect that you're right when this all ebbs and the bandwagon is empty - new and knowledgable fans will remain and ready to support their team regardless. That sounds like a fan base and team that I would be happy to be a part of. However, it by no means makes it easier for those of us here now who want to enjoy hockey as the bandwagon appears to be fully stocked like a clown car on its way to a three week bender in Tijuana.

Look, I know that my repsonses have been a tad extreme, but purposefully so to clarify an overarching point: my personal capitals experience in Washington DC has been dissappointing.

I say "experience" because you are absolutely correct: the fan base and the team itself are exclusive to one another. It's not Mike Green's responsibility to ensure that no insults are spoken in his defense nor is it the fan who directs Green's approach to how he runs the powerplay. I chose to evaluate the fans from the organization. The organization moved towards a style of play that I am not particular interested in or actually convinced that it can result in a championship, and the fans are...well, the fans. The Capitals experience is not "malicious" or purposefully evil - it is an experience that I felt was special and exciting and has devolved to something ugly and unfortunate.

Edited by TheOctopusKid, 31 March 2010 - 11:26 AM.


#70 Hockeytown0001

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Posted 31 March 2010 - 11:43 AM

I forgot who said it earlier, but the Verizon center (and by proxy the related sports bar...Green Turtle I'm looking you general direction) are no longer hospitable places to be. Be cognizant on who votes for the Norris Trophy before you tell me Lidstrom is a joke and "Green was robbed by the other GMs because they are jealous they don't have him," or that "Yzerman doesn't know anything about hockey otherwise he would've picked Green for Team Canada," because he's "twice the player Yzerman ever was".


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Edited by Hockeytown0001, 31 March 2010 - 11:44 AM.

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#71 Nightfall

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Posted 01 April 2010 - 08:41 AM

Exactly the sentiment I shared two seasons ago. I am more than happy to give the benefit of the doubt. We were all new to this game at some point and it was attending a handful of games, watching them on TV, reading what we could that we began to familarize ourselves and really foster a true love for the sport. However, in all my years I don't remember ever going out of my way before I even knew the playoff format or the names on an opposing team and proclaim to all the world my never ending love for the Red Wings and how stupid and terrible every other franchise was. In fact, since you seem to be a magnanimous and reasonable fellow, that in 1995 you didn't randomly call out a Canadians fan as "f*gs" and rally a group around him chanting "Let's Go Caps" (poor kid). A Canadians fan? Really?


I agree 100%. I barely knew the game back in 1995. I was still trying to determine the difference between college hockey rules and NHL rules. That being said, I hated the Devils. It wasn't until the NHL came back from the lockout when I started enjoying just about all hockey I could watch. I became a fan of the game about as much as I became a fan of the Red Wings. I think you can call me a magnanimous and reasonable person just based on the fact that while I love the Wings, I can enjoy the sport for what it is. :)

I forgot who said it earlier, but the Verizon center (and by proxy the related sports bar...Green Turtle I'm looking you general direction) are no longer hospitable places to be. Be cognizant on who votes for the Norris Trophy before you tell me Lidstrom is a joke and "Green was robbed by the other GMs because they are jealous they don't have him," or that "Yzerman doesn't know anything about hockey otherwise he would've picked Green for Team Canada," because he's "twice the player Yzerman ever was".

Ignorance knows no bounds. I have to agree that these people who said these things are dumb. However, I hear the same damn quotes from Wings fans relating to players on the Wings roster. Look at the discussion about the Calder voting for instance. Some Wings fans already have a chip on their shoulder because Tyler Myers seems to be getting all the press. Some are already saying "Howard is getting robbed." I don't equate this to ignorant Caps fans, but ignorant fans overall. These are the same fans, when the chips are down and their team is struggling, will bandwagon jump to another team.

Like I said earlier - zeal, or passion not tempered by knowledge or respect leads down an ugly path. This has unfortunately gotten worse over time, not better. The fan base seems louder and more ignorant than they did only two seasons ago. The genuine air of excitment and eagerness to learn the game has been replaced with whining, entitlement, and arrogance and that is very unfortunate. Yes, I suspect that you're right when this all ebbs and the bandwagon is empty - new and knowledgable fans will remain and ready to support their team regardless. That sounds like a fan base and team that I would be happy to be a part of. However, it by no means makes it easier for those of us here now who want to enjoy hockey as the bandwagon appears to be fully stocked like a clown car on its way to a three week bender in Tijuana.

Look, I know that my repsonses have been a tad extreme, but purposefully so to clarify an overarching point: my personal capitals experience in Washington DC has been dissappointing.

I say "experience" because you are absolutely correct: the fan base and the team itself are exclusive to one another. It's not Mike Green's responsibility to ensure that no insults are spoken in his defense nor is it the fan who directs Green's approach to how he runs the powerplay. I chose to evaluate the fans from the organization. The organization moved towards a style of play that I am not particular interested in or actually convinced that it can result in a championship, and the fans are...well, the fans. The Capitals experience is not "malicious" or purposefully evil - it is an experience that I felt was special and exciting and has devolved to something ugly and unfortunate.

I completely agree with your assessment as a whole though. I just give the Caps fans a lot more leeway. I think you need to give these fans a little more than 2 years in order to get their attitude in order.

Let me give you another example here. I am a Ferris State Bulldogs hockey fan. Always have been. In fact, that was the first team I ever saw play live. Heck, my first game I ever saw was Ferris State vrs Lake Superior State. Anyway, Ferris State has never been a national powerhouse. They have always languished in the middle to bottom of the pack with a couple exceptional years thrown in. In 2002-2003, Chris Kunitz led the Bulldogs to a NCAA playoff birth and a CCHA regular season championship. The rink was full that season as well as the next season.

As a fan, I noticed that the rink went from true hockey fans to bandwagon fans in the span of a season. The second year, the fans move from excited to be part of a winning team to what I like to call "right to entitlement". That is the same area the Caps fans are in today. In short, the fans of a winning team want to see more success next season. If that success doesn't come, well, its the refs, league, coach, or player's fault. If the team has more success the next season, then it gets worse the next season.

The only way you get fans to calm down is to have a period of 5-10+ years of success like the Wings have done. The Devils would be another success story. Eventually, the fans become more educated about the game of hockey and since fans love a winner, they stick around.

It all ends though when the team starts to go downhill again. The fans will leave the game and go to other teams. The true fans will stick around (like my friend in Tampa Bay has figured out), but the mass amount of fans will leave. These are the people that you and I both like to talk to. These are the people that I got to know at Ferris State when the team sucked that stayed with the team and continue to stay with the team today. Its good to know these are true fans of the game and the team. Talking hockey with these people are a privilege.

In conclusion, I know you are sick of the Caps fans. I am just asking that you give them a bit more time. In a period of 10 years or so, the Caps will win a Stanley Cup and the team will be slipping back into mediocrity. The fans that stick around when all the bandwagon fans leave will be the ones you will enjoy talking too the most. You just don't know which fans will shake out until the team starts dropping in the overall standings which is going to be a while. Just know its all a vicious cycle. Its going to happen with the Wings eventually.

Personally, I watch the Caps on NHL Center Ice quite often. If the Wings don't win the cup this year, I would be a happy hockey fan if Washington lifted it (or any other team who hasn't won it in a while or ever).
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#72 Frozen-Man

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Posted 02 April 2010 - 03:41 PM

Interesting post, OP. I can't stand the Caps, but I come from a completely different perspective than most on here, as they were once a divisional rival of the Pens, and a lot of that still lingers. There's a lot of other things I could say about the subject but it would take up a lot of time. Hate also takes up energy and I've been on vacation....so I won't go there. :dozing:

I will say this: If****** hate it when people yell things like "RED" during the national anthem. They also yell "RED" in Carolina, and when they say "you see", they yell "JUSSI." I don't care what team it is, I can't stand it when people do that. For a brief moment you're paying respect to your country, you have the rest of the evening to root for your team. Not to get all Uncle Sam and Apple Pie on your ass, but that is a pet peeve of mine.


:clap: :clap: Couldn't agree more. The Stars do it too and it always annoys me.

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#73 SouthernWingsFan

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Posted 02 April 2010 - 09:35 PM

Honestly, I don't see what the big deal is. Every team in every city has bandwagoner fans. That's not good, that's not bad, it just is what it is. People are going to typically pay attention to a team when it wins more, whether they know the players or know what is going on or not. When they lose, they'll probably watch less. Natural. Just because we might be more knowledgable or smarter doesn't make us "better" than bandwagoners who might not know their stuff. Let them have fun and enjoy the games and seeing a winning product (if that is what they are seeing).

#74 Doc Holliday

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Posted 03 April 2010 - 12:47 AM

Octopus, you really need to calm down about it, because every fanbase has what you describe. I've heard Wings fans talk about the same bulls*** that you accuse the Caps fans of doing it, and it is even worse for us because of the sense of entitlement some Wings fans have. If they aren't winning they are either playing like crap or there is something going against them. That doesn't make Wings fans in general whining, entitled, snobs who only think the world revolves around them.

Seriously, your experience in Washington is the rule of fans across the country, for every team out there. They have new fans because they are a new powerhouse and as a Wings fan you should be able to sympathize considering the amount of bandwagoning for the Wings in the 90s.

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#75 HOCKEY MATTERS

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Posted 03 April 2010 - 09:42 AM

I find it incredibly entertaining that folks who post on forums think that their opinion is any more valid, or matter more than anyone else's. Some of the logic folks come up with to prop up their views, or tear differing opinions down is comical to me. Get mad. Post in anger. Free Willie. Go flamers.

Edited by HOCKEY MATTERS, 03 April 2010 - 09:42 AM.

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#76 SouthernWingsFan

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Posted 03 April 2010 - 01:45 PM

I find it incredibly entertaining that folks who post on forums think that their opinion is any more valid, or matter more than anyone else's. Some of the logic folks come up with to prop up their views, or tear differing opinions down is comical to me. Get mad. Post in anger. Free Willie. Go flamers.

Ok... :huh:

#77 Shoreline

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Posted 03 April 2010 - 03:21 PM

Seriously, your experience in Washington is the rule of fans across the country, for every team out there. They have new fans because they are a new powerhouse and as a Wings fan you should be able to sympathize considering the amount of bandwagoning for the Wings in the 90s.

Yep, this much is true. Sorry OP but maybe that area just isn't for you, given the vitriol you've spat not only about the team and it's recent years, but the fans and people. I run into fans as described in San Jose, but idiots are something to expect in society in general, not just in DC. Plus, the bandwagoning thing for the Wings is absolutely correct, particularly the late 90s. OP needs a bit of fresh air and to relax.

Edited by Shoreline, 03 April 2010 - 03:21 PM.


#78 RedWingAbner

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Posted 03 April 2010 - 04:26 PM

To me, it sounds like the crowd of tea partiers just head over to the Verizon Center.

#79 zettie85

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Posted 03 April 2010 - 05:48 PM

Octopus, you really need to calm down about it, because every fanbase has what you describe. I've heard Wings fans talk about the same bulls*** that you accuse the Caps fans of doing it, and it is even worse for us because of the sense of entitlement some Wings fans have. If they aren't winning they are either playing like crap or there is something going against them. That doesn't make Wings fans in general whining, entitled, snobs who only think the world revolves around them.

Seriously, your experience in Washington is the rule of fans across the country, for every team out there. They have new fans because they are a new powerhouse and as a Wings fan you should be able to sympathize considering the amount of bandwagoning for the Wings in the 90s.



Well where I am from everybody hated the Wings because of there success. Nobody jumped on the bandwagon unless it was the hate wagon.
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#80 Doc Holliday

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Posted 03 April 2010 - 09:51 PM

Well where I am from everybody hated the Wings because of there success. Nobody jumped on the bandwagon unless it was the hate wagon.


Where are you from?

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