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wmubronco420

Does this year prove that hockey doesnt belong in phoenix?

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That's kind of what I am saying. Putting it all on tsn and so in Canada with everyone in the country watching still somehow comes up short in revenue dollars when comparing the two countries.

But what I don't understand, is I know these are proud Canadians wanting a hockey team back in the country. And out of all the possibilities, Winnipeg is probably the best choice if Hamilton wasn't to come to fruition. But people are thinking that moving a team to Winnipeg isn't going to cost millions. Millions are still going to be lost there, for years to come. And why does an intelligent business man, family, or company, full knowingly accept that as a good deal to have a dream of a hockey team there?

Why do you expect them to continue to lose millions though? The TV deals may not be as much but with the corporate sponsorship and the fact that Winnipeg has barely been effected by the economic downturn they are sure to sell out. If they become the Jet's again their merchandise sales will be through the roof. I would buy a Jet's jersey in a second if they came back.

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well for those who live in canada or get CBC...you can watch the Coyotes take on the Oilers tonight at 10pm est. :D

Why do you expect them to continue to lose millions though? The TV deals may not be as much but with the corporate sponsorship and the fact that Winnipeg has barely been effected by the economic downturn they are sure to sell out. If they become the Jet's again their merchandise sales will be through the roof. I would buy a Jet's jersey in a second if they came back.

i boughtt one a couple years ago in toronto. was a neat store that sold classic jerseys/uniforms from all teams in the four major sports (NBA, MLB, NFL, NHL). still have it today !

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I will say this though. Bettman probably wants to find a buyer for Phoenix and the get an expansion team in Winnipeg/Hamilton or wherever. The NHL would stand to make a s*** load of money if they did it that way.

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Why do you expect them to continue to lose millions though? The TV deals may not be as much but with the corporate sponsorship and the fact that Winnipeg has barely been effected by the economic downturn they are sure to sell out. If they become the Jet's again their merchandise sales will be through the roof. I would buy a Jet's jersey in a second if they came back.

I think up on the initial costs and dues to be paying everyone involved and so on is paid, they will be okay. I think if the team doesn't perform well say after the five years of being back, they may find themselves on the under side of that safety line. Remember Winnipegs population is only 671,000. I think its possible for the novelty to sort of wear off. Fans start watching from their living rooms instead of the arena. And how about attracting marquee players there.

I have little doubt that a team being put back in Winnipeg, could ever lose as much money as a team did in Phoenix. But I wonder if Winnipeg is thee answer.

btw, I love the Jets jersey. I have an old Selanne blue one.

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That may all be true and you do carry a valid argument. The corporate sponsorship is huge, but television revenues are where it's at. American television creates a gross amount of money compared to any television market in Canada. And being that Phoenix is turning into this metropolis of a city, Winnipeg can hardly compete on that end.

Where is this corporate, and television $$$ you talk of?...For what it's worth it doesn't appear to be doing much; that franchise has lost more $$$ these past few seasons than what they may have lost throughout their history in Winnipeg.

I'm tired of these welfare child franchises; with their losses they hamper the leagues ability to generate revenue which in turn limits the salary cap, and it hurts teams like Detroit who will spend up to the cap limit.

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I think up on the initial costs and dues to be paying everyone involved and so on is paid, they will be okay. I think if the team doesn't perform well say after the five years of being back, they may find themselves on the under side of that safety line. Remember Winnipegs population is only 671,000. I think its possible for the novelty to sort of wear off. Fans start watching from their living rooms instead of the arena. And how about attracting marquee players there.

I have little doubt that a team being put back in Winnipeg, could ever lose as much money as a team did in Phoenix. But I wonder if Winnipeg is thee answer.

btw, I love the Jets jersey. I have an old Selanne blue one.

My only fear of a team back in Winnipeg would be that the novelty wearing off in several years, and potentially seeing some empty seats here, and there if they're not a competitive team...That said I don't believe we'd see the wreck that the Coyotes have become these past several years taking place in Winnipeg.

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I will say this though. Bettman probably wants to find a buyer for Phoenix and the get an expansion team in Winnipeg/Hamilton or wherever. The NHL would stand to make a s*** load of money if they did it that way.

This.

Bettman would be King for the day as far as the BOG is concerned, and public enemy #1 by us fans.

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Where is this corporate, and television $$$ you talk of?...For what it's worth it doesn't appear to be doing much; that franchise has lost more $$$ these past few seasons than what they may have lost throughout their history in Winnipeg.

I'm tired of these welfare child franchises; with their losses they hamper the leagues ability to generate revenue which in turn limits the salary cap, and it hurts teams like Detroit who will spend up to the cap limit.

The losses have been more than 300 million since the team moved there. And I said before I doubt that there could be as much of a loss in Winnipeg. But the television and corporate sponsorship money is a small band-aid for the massive bleeding, caused by these morons that have been running this team. The city of Glendale has raped this organization of any type of revenue making avenues. Including massive rent, parking, police, and concessions.

I am not defending having a team in Phoenix. I think it's a joke, with the deal they are in with locally. I am just more saying, Winnipeg is still a gamble.

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If Winnipeg were to get an NHL team, be it the Coyotes, another team moving, or an expansion team, they would likely have to either build a new arena or expand the MTS centre, where the Manitoba Moose currently play.

Speaking of the Moose, did you know they only draw 53% of capacity and are second in attendance in the AHL, with Hershey ahead by a wide margin?

In comparison, Grand Rapids draws 64% of capacity. Yes, it's a much smaller arena, but in raw numbers it's 1,003 seats sold per game.

Can Winnipeg truly support an NHL team? Due to the deals Phoenix has been running for many of their seats, Manitoba's ticket prices are not much different than Phoenix's. Phoenix has averaged about 4,000 more fans per game, and has averaged 67% capacity.

Is Winnipeg truly that much better an NHL market than Phoenix? Past numbers and recent numbers seem to suggest it's questionable at best. Also, 2002-03 was the last season until this year that Phoenix averaged fewer than 14,800 fans per game in a season, a mark I don't believe the Jets ever actually cleared as a season average.

So no, this year doesn't prove that hockey doesn't belong in Phoenix any more than 1995-96 proved that Jim Carey was a HHOF-worthy goaltender.

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The Winnipeg Arena was quite small. It was also quite run down. The MTS Centre is a beautiful arena. Operating costs were a main reason the team left. Regardless if you sell out all the time if your costs are in American dollars and you only bring in Canadian dollars at a time when the dollars aren't close to parity you are going to have trouble, especially with out corporate sponsorship. They would have it this time. In great market conditions. Don't forget that every Canadian team outside of the Leafs were in a situation where they may have had to relocate at one point or another. The parity of the Canadian dollar has done so much for these teams.

They may not even have to expand the arena right away. Give it a couple years and see if attendance remains high. If the demand for tickets is still high add 2000 seats. I just really don't like the fact that the NHL still is pushing hockey on the southern states. Winnipeg is the only logical place to try NHL hockey out.

Edited by zettie85

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The Winnipeg Arena was quite small. It was also quite run down. The MTS Centre is a beautiful arena. Operating costs were a main reason the team left. Regardless if you sell out all the time if your costs are in American dollars and you only bring in Canadian dollars at a time when the dollars aren't close to parity you are going to have trouble, especially with out corporate sponsorship. They would have it this time. In great market conditions. Don't forget that every Canadian team outside of the Leafs were in a situation where they may have had to relocate at one point or another. The parity of the Canadian dollar has done so much for these teams.

They may not even have to expand the arena right away. Give it a couple years and see if attendance remains high. If the demand for tickets is still high add 2000 seats. I just really don't like the fact that the NHL still is pushing hockey on the southern states. Winnipeg is the only logical place to try NHL hockey out.

Winnipeg will sell out with no problems at all.Canadian markets are never a problem.they might as well expand the arena 2,000 seats already and get it over with becuase that city is gonna be hopping when the NHL returns.

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CAN WE PLEASE STOP SAYING "BRING BACK THE JETS!!"

Attendance was NEVER as issue for the Nordiques or the Jets, corporate dollars, and low income ticket buyers were the issues. Winnipeg has a relatively low average income per family compared to the other cities of comparable size, and fewer corporate dollars means seats would be more expensive.

Expensive seats combined with a low income, means that for most Winnipegonians, the prices would be out of reach.

The Jets were among the lowest priced tickets when they left, and even as they raised prices every year, their season ticket base dropped.

Based on the 2005 report, the average ticket price would be well over $100 in order for Winnipeg to be able to sustain a team, that would make the Jets the most expensive seat (The Wings average ticket is at $58).

To give you an example, Ottawa is slightly larger than Winnipeg according to StatsCanada. Ottawa's average income is 43% HIGHER than Winnipeg's. Ottawa's corporate tax base is 7x larger than Winnipeg, and Ottawa currently ranks 28th in the NHL in corporate sponsorship and will lose close to $20MM this year. The Senators just happen to have an owner who doesn't care if he loses money, otherwise this franchise would be mentioned in the same breath as the Thrashers, Coyotes, and Predators as on their way elsewhere. Again, Calgary and Edmonton already lose money, and Ottawa lost more money last year than any club except Phoenix. Ottawa is having to cut their ticket prices (even for premium games this year) and this is with a pretty good on-ice product that's winning games and is playing a good brand of hockey.

Every business person who has done an analysis of today's NHL and today's Winnipeg says Winnipeg wouldn't survive in the NHL. Wayne Gretzky told the Economic Club of Toronto that Winnipeg doesn't stand a chance (and as an owner, he knows what the numbers are). It's time for people in Winnipeg to realize that unless their city grows (it also has grown very little in the last 13 years according to StatsCan (regardless of what the city of Winnipeg tells people) it's not in the cards.

Winnipeg was generally near the low end of the NHL pay scale. Thois year, 20+ teams are within $2-3MM of the high end, and not surprisingly, the teams near the low end....were in the draft lottery.

Sources:

http://www.forbes.com/lists/2009/31/hockey-values-09_Ottawa-Senators_318444.html

http://www.forbes.com/lists/2009/31/hockey-values-09_Edmonton-Oilers_314229.html

http://www.forbes.com/lists/2009/31/hockey-values-09_Calgary-Flames_311479.html

Edited by Coolio Mendez
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CAN WE PLEASE STOP SAYING "BRING BACK THE JETS!!"

Attendance was NEVER as issue for the Nordiques or the Jets, corporate dollars, and low income ticket buyers were the issues. Winnipeg has a relatively low average income per family compared to the other cities of comparable size, and fewer corporate dollars means seats would be more expensive.

Expensive seats combined with a low income, means that for most Winnipegonians, the prices would be out of reach.

The Jets were among the lowest priced tickets when they left, and even as they raised prices every year, their season ticket base dropped.

Based on the 2005 report, the average ticket price would be well over $100 in order for Winnipeg to be able to sustain a team, that would make the Jets the most expensive seat.

To give you an example, Ottawa is slightly larger than Winnipeg according to StatsCanada. Ottawa's average income is 43% HIGHER than Winnipeg's. Ottawa's corporate tax base is 7x larger than Winnipeg, and Ottawa currently ranks 28th in the NHL in corporate sponsorship and will lose close to $20MM this year. The Senators just happen to have an owner who doesn't care if he loses money, otherwise this franchise would be mentioned in the same breath as the Thrashers, Coyotes, and Predators as on their way elsewhere.

Every business person who has done an analysis of today's NHL and today's Winnipeg says Winnipeg wouldn't survive in the NHL. Wayne Gretzky told the Economic Club of Toronto that Winnipeg doesn't stand a chance (and as an owner, he knows what the numbers are). It's time for people in Winnipeg to realize that unless their city grows (it also has grown very little in the last 13 years according to StatsCan (regardless of what the city of Winnipeg tells people) it's not in the cards.

Winnipeg was generally near the low end of the NHL pay scale. Thois year, 20+ teams are within $2-3MM of the high end, and not surprisingly, the teams near the low end....were in the draft lottery.

There are corporate dollars now and the operating costs of the franchise would be lower now due to the Canadian dollar being close to par with the American.

Consensus in the media and even hints from the NHL seems to put Winnipeg as the forerunners for a new franchise if it happens. Doesn't mean much but it is all the talk right now.

BRING BACK THE JETS!!!

Edited by zettie85

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There are corporate dollars now and the operating costs of the franchise would be lower now due to the Canadian dollar being close to par with the American.

Consensus in the media and even hints from the NHL seems to put Winnipeg as the forerunners for a new franchise if it happens. Doesn't mean much but it is all the talk right now.

BRING BACK THE JETS!!!

Thanks for only reading the first two lines.

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Thanks for only reading the first two lines.

I read the whole thing but that's Ottawa not Winnipeg. You don't know what will happen. Flames are in the 2nd smallest hockey market yet are in the top half in revenues. None of the major corporate sponsors are oil based except for the one that has the nameing rights to the building. How do they survive. Same goes for Edmonton.

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