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wmubronco420

Does this year prove that hockey doesnt belong in phoenix?

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There were obviously other factors to the team leaving Winnipeg than whether or not it was a hockey city. They had their own financial troubles, but none more prominent than the fact that they didn't have as much people in the Winnipeg area therefore did not rake in enough cash to support star players who eventually left, nor support the team in competition with much larger areas in the US who were bringing in enough cash to support the inflated league-wide player salaries and thus costs to operate a team. With the salary cap and league player maximums this should theoretically be different now, but the cap is steadily rising again so perhaps not. If Winnipeg could manage, I'd surely have them there over Phoenix any day. There is no doubt Phoenix isn't a hockey city, but people aren't factoring in what really matters regarding whether or not the team could do well there and not go kaput. Why do you think Balsillie chose near Toronto to relocate them? They could bring enough cash in to support the team because their costs to operate the team could be returned easily and with a lot of additional profit. Substantially different than Winnipeg.

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See: '98 Wings road to the cup

I remember their arena was packed during that series and the fans were crazy. Of course, those were the days Tkachuk and Roenick were a force together and Khabibulin made a name for himself.

Anybody remember in that series when Fedorov shot the puck (to dump it in) and it hit perfectly off the back boards to Khabibulin's skate and in the net? It was insanely good luck.

That was Sean Casey, im 95% sure.

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So? The Phoenix metro area is larger than most existing Canadian markets and a number of American ones, does that mean that the Flames or the Sabres should be getting the axe? If it was just about raw population why not put teams in Europe? London has about seven million people to Phoenix's four, does that mean that London is a more viable market? After all, in your mind whether or not a given population is hockey-crazed or not is completely irrelevant.

Plus, a potential team in Winnipeg would almost certainly receive ownership support at least in part from David Thomson, the richest man in Canada. He owns the media group responsible for TSN *and* the arena a potential NHL team in Winnipeg would play - he would directly make money that would go towards the NHL not only from every Winnipeg game but also from every TSN broadcast and every event at the MTS Centre NHL-related or not. For all those people in Phoenix, they sure aren't climbing over themselves offering to take ownership of it there, let alone anybody with anything even close to the financial clout of someone like Thomson.

Why are people so insistent on a team in Winnipeg? Quebec City was far more supportive of the Nordiques than Winnipeg was of the Jets. The Nordiques were drawing very well when they moved to Colorado. The other problem with Winnipeg is that it is surrounded by wheat fields! There are no other feeder cities to draw from. There is a much larger population base in Quebec, and they have a track record of supporting an NHL team better than Winnipeg. Even Winnipeg didn't see itself with the NHL in its future, otherwise they would have built the MTS Centre 6 rows taller. And if we want to get silly about this and "hockey crazed" is your criteria, lets put six new expansion teams in Canada in the prarie provinces. How about Red Deer, Moose Jaw, Swift Current, Lethbridge, Brandon, and how about a big market team like Saskatoon?

Wings_Fan_In_Exile likes this

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Wait, why can't they just merge with the Penguins?

You know, kind of like the NorthStars merging with the Cleveland Barons once?

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give Warroad, MN a team too. they have some great mustard fields there. and fish flies!

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Note in that link I posted above that the Coyotes are up almost 2,000 fans since their early season numbers. Anyone think that might be because fans aren't so scared that the team isn't long for the city? The NHL's tried to make it crystal clear to their fanbase that they're committed to keeping the team in Phoenix.

It also helps that the Coyotes don't blow right now.

And for all the people who think the team should be selling out when they blow chunks-- go look at the past struggles of Ottawa, Chicago(!) and Pittsburgh. Sports franchises who can throw consistently garbage teams out there and consistently get attendance are few and far between.

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In that 11,000 is an inflated bunch due to a lot of fans picking the "Community Chest" card and getting to see either a free game or one in the single digits of dollars. I mean, they can't even give away tickets there and sell out. Even Predators fans managed to muster up a 14,000 and 15,000+ fan attendance rate, which would not allow the team to break their lease in Nashville. The Coyotes simply aren't savable in terms of profit as a hockey franchise in Phoenix, and it was known that's not a hockey market. I'm sure pressure on Doucheman will rise following this season to relocate them somewhere else.

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In that 11,000 is an inflated bunch due to a lot of fans picking the "Community Chest" card and getting to see either a free game or one in the single digits of dollars. I mean, they can't even give away tickets there and sell out. Even Predators fans managed to muster up a 14,000 and 15,000+ fan attendance rate, which would not allow the team to break their lease in Nashville. The Coyotes simply aren't savable in terms of profit as a hockey franchise in Phoenix, and it was known that's not a hockey market. I'm sure pressure on Doucheman will rise following this season to relocate them somewhere else.

You should know that logic will never defeat the will of the Doucheman!

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What was the attendance for Wings games in the 70s and early 80s?

Another very good point. He who casts the first stone!

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What was the attendance for Wings games in the 70s and early 80s?

apples and oranges

one team is an original six team, set in a hockey climate with a long history of success

the other has never been out of the first round and is playing hockey in the desert

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apples and oranges

one team is an original six team, set in a hockey climate with a long history of success

the other has never been out of the first round and is playing hockey in the desert

How does that change it?

Every American Market is going to have trouble filling seats if the team sucks. Notice how the attendance numbers are going UP now that the Yotes are doing well?

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Dubious figures. Says we have a 19000 attendance on average at home. Wouldnt have thought it was anywhere near that.

That's the difference between average paid attendance and what you can see from home. Lots of empty seats actually have owners.

But yeah, no doubt some numbers are iffy.

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See: '98 Wings road to the cup

I remember their arena was packed during that series and the fans were crazy. Of course, those were the days Tkachuk and Roenick were a force together and Khabibulin made a name for himself.

Anybody remember in that series when Fedorov shot the puck (to dump it in) and it hit perfectly off the back boards to Khabibulin's skate and in the net? It was insanely good luck.

Dude i remember that it was in game 6 and i think the kick plate came loose and it deflected it perfectly. I think its on youtube under game 6 wings vs yotes 98 or somethin

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Why are people so insistent on a team in Winnipeg? Quebec City was far more supportive of the Nordiques than Winnipeg was of the Jets. The Nordiques were drawing very well when they moved to Colorado. The other problem with Winnipeg is that it is surrounded by wheat fields! There are no other feeder cities to draw from. There is a much larger population base in Quebec, and they have a track record of supporting an NHL team better than Winnipeg. Even Winnipeg didn't see itself with the NHL in its future, otherwise they would have built the MTS Centre 6 rows taller. And if we want to get silly about this and "hockey crazed" is your criteria, lets put six new expansion teams in Canada in the prarie provinces. How about Red Deer, Moose Jaw, Swift Current, Lethbridge, Brandon, and how about a big market team like Saskatoon?

Quebec City is too francophone-centered to be a big draw, plus it dosen't have an adequate arena. Neither does Red Deer, Moose Jaw, Swift Current, Lethbridge, Brandon, or Saskatoon. MTS would need an expansion but it's far more NHL-ready than any kind of facility any of those locations you so sarcastically referred to. To say nothing of the kind of money that could be brought in by the pockets of someone like Thomson. Sorry, replying to a question that exploits a logical flaw in your argument with a snarky, sarcastic reply dosen't cut it. Especially when the snarky sarcastic reply is in and of itself easily refuted.

Edited by Kabrok

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Why no NHL franchise in Utah? Mormons don't like hockey?

nhl_30teams-map2008-09_.gif

They should love hockey... I mean Mormons are so white they're borderline albino.

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Hockey doesn't belong in San Jose either, right? What about Dallas?

Edited by adubs

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Q: What do Phoenix fans and NBC have in common?

A: Neither knows that the season schedule starts in October.

...and both are getting NHL calibre hockey on the cheap!

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