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Hockeytown0001

Osgood may retire following this season

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The #30 will not grace the back of a Red Wing Jersey again. Book it.

Get oz to 400 at least. If he takes over again should Howard falter, then i say roll with it Wiz! DETROIT STYLE!

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The #30 will not grace the back of a Red Wing Jersey again. Book it.

Get oz to 400 at least. If he takes over again should Howard falter, then i say roll with it Wiz! DETROIT STYLE!

I like it.

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Osgood made his bed last season. What happens next season is up to him... again. I almost didn't respond because I really didn't feel like being assaulted with a ton of stats and scenarios that supposedly show different. Anyone that is honest with themselves will admit that Osgood played poorly when he was in. Despite what stats say, he was constantly out of position, fought the puck on most nights and routinely made poor decisions. He looked lost most nights and I don't buy the rust theory. He wasn't squashed by Babcock. He squashed himself.

<sits back and waits for the Osgood faithful to pile on the negs> heh

Edited by Broken 16
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Osgood made his bed last season. What happens next season is up to him... again. I almost didn't respond because I really didn't feel like being assaulted with a ton of stats and scenarios that supposedly show different. Anyone that is honest with themselves will admit that Osgood played poorly when he was in. Despite what stats say, he was constantly out of position, fought the puck on most nights and routinely made poor decisions. He looked lost most nights and I don't buy the rust theory. He wasn't squashed by Babcock. He squashed himself.

<sits back and waits for the Osgood faithful to pile on the negs> heh

Osgood was the Wings' best player until he went out with the flu in like November. After that, he played like 5 games. Howard was playing great, but one major reason the Wings lost in the playoffs is because Howie was so tired. If Babs had played Ozzie more, Howie wouldn't have been as tired, so if he DID falter, Babs would have been more comfortable going to Ozzie, who would have been in game shape. Babs is a good coach, but he mismanaged his goalies last year.

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Osgood was the Wings' best player until he went out with the flu in like November. After that, he played like 5 games. Howard was playing great, but one major reason the Wings lost in the playoffs is because Howie was so tired. If Babs had played Ozzie more, Howie wouldn't have been as tired, so if he DID falter, Babs would have been more comfortable going to Ozzie, who would have been in game shape. Babs is a good coach, but he mismanaged his goalies last year.

Starting Howard 20+ games in a row was for sure a mistake.

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Osgood was the Wings' best player until he went out with the flu in like November. After that, he played like 5 games. Howard was playing great, but one major reason the Wings lost in the playoffs is because Howie was so tired. If Babs had played Ozzie more, Howie wouldn't have been as tired, so if he DID falter, Babs would have been more comfortable going to Ozzie, who would have been in game shape. Babs is a good coach, but he mismanaged his goalies last year.

I'm not sure I disagree, but you are leaving things out. Ozzie s*** the bed multiple times, and by the time he looked like he may be competent enough to warrant a shot to play more games, the Wings needed to go with the better chance to win, which was Howie. We couldn't afford to roll the dice and hope Ozzie turned the corner last year. Up until the last week, every game mattered, and we needed to bring the A team.

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Starting Howard 20+ games in a row was for sure a mistake.

I totally agree that Babcock probably went too far in riding Howard, but I honestly think he was just s***ting his pants hoping to make the playoffs.

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I totally agree that Babcock probably went too far in riding Howard, but I honestly think he was just s***ting his pants hoping to make the playoffs.

I like that Howard got so much playing time this year and we went the distance in the playoffs with him in goal. Realistically with all things considered we had a rough year and now Howard is a lot more prepared to take it another notch up next year. With the endless injuries and two straight seasons ending in June, I felt all along it wasn't our year. Between Howard, the late season rally, continuing our 100 point streak and going to the second round I think it ended up being salvaged as a decent year. And I love that even though we lost to the Sharks in 5, we outscored them in the series. Now this year we go back for another Cup!

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I totally agree that Babcock probably went too far in riding Howard, but I honestly think he was just s***ting his pants hoping to make the playoffs.

Osgood sat in December.

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Osgood sat in December.

Are you implying that this team wasn't battling in December? Because you would be wrong.

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Are you implying that this team wasn't battling in December? Because you would be wrong.

Osgood was the Wings' best player until he went down with the flu. He had started twelve games at this point to Howard's three, and it was November 7th. Osgood would start nine more games over the remaining 67, while Howard would see 58.

By December 31st, 2009, Howard had already started more games than Osgood would all season.

As for "Battling in December" I would say the team was playing better hockey in December than it was in October or November. The reason Osgood didn't play is the same reason Boucher wasn't Philadelphia's goalie in the Cup finals; Osgood was out sick (Boucher was injured partway into the playoffs for Philly) the replacement played very well, so even after the starter returned, the replacement held on to the job. Babcock went a little overboard with Howard, but it's the same thought process.

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Are you seriously still second guessing a decision that could not have worked out any better than it did?

Babcock in all of his delusions got this team to 5th place, 4th was completely out of the realm of possibility, there was no realistic way the Wings were catching the Yotes unless they lost all of their games after the Olympic break.

The way Babcock coached this team took them from 9th to 5th in a flash.

Say what you want about the situation and your personal feelings towards who you wanted to see in net, but his decision worked!

Plain and simple it worked, and all of you saying Osgood could have done the same as Howie are doing the same as those who say he couldn't, GUESSING!

None of us know if Ozzie would have been better or worse than Howard in that situation because he was not put in it. All we can go on is what happened.

Babcock had to weigh Ozzie's last two regular seasons vs what he was currently getting from Howard.

Now Howard COULD have collapsed and the team would have been stuck with a rusty goaltender but that is not what happened, and any other thoughts about the situation are conjecture.

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Are you seriously still second guessing a decision that could not have worked out any better than it did?

Babcock in all of his delusions got this team to 5th place, 4th was completely out of the realm of possibility, there was no realistic way the Wings were catching the Yotes unless they lost all of their games after the Olympic break.

The way Babcock coached this team took them from 9th to 5th in a flash.

Say what you want about the situation and your personal feelings towards who you wanted to see in net, but his decision worked!

Plain and simple it worked, and all of you saying Osgood could have done the same as Howie are doing the same as those who say he couldn't, GUESSING!

None of us know if Ozzie would have been better or worse than Howard in that situation because he was not put in it. All we can go on is what happened.

Babcock had to weigh Ozzie's last two regular seasons vs what he was currently getting from Howard.

Now Howard COULD have collapsed and the team would have been stuck with a rusty goaltender but that is not what happened, and any other thoughts about the situation are conjecture.

Well put. Also, giving Howard the experience he had last year for the future was priceless and giving Ozzie that would have been irrelevant unless we won Cup. Winning the Cup would have been the ONLY scenario that would have better then what happened. With the injuries and last two Junes I'd rather lose when we did then go to late May or June again in a row without a cup. This way Howie got the season and two playoff rounds of experience and the team still got an extra month of summer. I just didn't see it as a Cup year. But sure, if Ozzie would have won the Cup I'd have preferred that. But that just seems like a stretch given where we were last year and to your point we'll never know.

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Now Howard COULD have collapsed and the team would have been stuck with a rusty goaltender but that is not what happened, and any other thoughts about the situation are conjecture.

This logic I don't like. Just because it worked it can't be looked at as a high risk situation? Just because it worked means that there was no better alternative (not speaking in hindsight of course)?

It is the same thing as saying you can't second guess Dale Tallon's contract management simply because the roster he created won the cup.

Howard shined, yes. But left zero room for error. What if Howard lost it? What if he became injured? What if Howard began to noticeably decline due to fatigue?

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Dave Tallon won a cup, I would consider it a success, was it a potentially dangerous way to do so yes, but he won Chicago a cup something that hadn't happened in a very long time! Many die hard fans probably appreciate that. I mean it is not like the are the leafs right now.

If he had not won a Cup it would have been worse, but look at the fan base he built for that team, bandwagon or not, die hard or not, Jersey sales are up, ticket sales are up, and they hoisted the cup.

Perfect example of the ends justifying the means!

What if I win the lottery tomorrow, what if after Howard sucks/gets hurt and Ozzie tears a groin, what if Howard went on to be a Calder candidate and help the team go from 9th to 5th, what if Howard gained valuable experience, what if Aliens landed on the planet tomorrow and had the best goaltender in the Universe who wanted to play for the Wings.

What if Babcock put in Ozzie for a 3 game stretch after the Olympics and he was as good as he was last regular season, the team loses 2 of the 3, Howard's confidence goes in the s***ter and the Wings finish 9th, how would you feel then?

What if, what if, what if, what if.

All I know is none of what you were/are worried about happened and like in almost all sports, a coaches decisions are almost always going to be seen as great or horrible, there is no middle ground any more, you appear to be offended or bothered whichever term you like the most, by Ozzie being sent to the pine.

Howard helped take this team to the playoffs and you are complaining about could have beens.

And even in the Sharks series I would have a hard time complaining about Howard's play, did he have a bad game, meh yeah but the special teams let the Wings down far more than Howard.

Look at the box scores from the playoffs and see how many teams needed to score 4 goals to win, so yeah he gave up three a game, he still had a better GAA then the cup winning goaltender.

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Howard shined, yes. But left zero room for error. What if Howard lost it? What if he became injured? What if Howard began to noticeably decline due to fatigue?

What if Ozzie lost it? What if Ozzie became injured? What if Ozzie began to noticeably decline do to age? I know you're saying your not Monday morning quarterbacking, but you really are and in a case that it was the judgment of our head coach as the best option and worked out. Howard is clearly not the reason we didn't go past the second round and we have no reason to believe Ozzie would have done any better.

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Oh wow this is like those NHL commercials from the playoffs.

Edited by titanium2

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More time to bounce back than in February.

Assuming that they would even be in any sort of striking distance come Feb. You assume a lot when it comes to the subject of Osgood.

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Assuming that they would even be in any sort of striking distance come Feb. You assume a lot when it comes to the subject of Osgood.

Even though I'm arguing Howard was the right call, I have to admit there's a voice in the back of my head that Ozzie's done it before and his best playoffs typically came in years he wasn't the clear #1 goalie. It's certainly possible that Ozzie getting hot could have happened and carried us to a Cup. But the odds seemed so long and if it doesn't happen then we still have our #1 up and coming goalie with no playoff experience. The price to find out if Ozzie could turn it on again at the age he's at was just too high. But one does have to wonder, just a bit...

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Even though I'm arguing Howard was the right call, I have to admit there's a voice in the back of my head that Ozzie's done it before and his best playoffs typically came in years he wasn't the clear #1 goalie. It's certainly possible that Ozzie getting hot could have happened and carried us to a Cup. But the odds seemed so long and if it doesn't happen then we still have our #1 up and coming goalie with no playoff experience. The price to find out if Ozzie could turn it on again at the age he's at was just too high. But one does have to wonder, just a bit...

That's not really the point though. We can all speculate on 'what if' all day long regarding Osgood. He's the king of mustering 'what if's' about himself. The point is, the Wings had absolutely zero wiggle room last season to allow Osgood to find his form. There was never any breathing room for the Wings. They started battling in November and didn't stop until April.

Everyone seems to conveniently disregard the jacked up point structure the NHL utilizes these days. With most teams getting at least one point every single game, it's extremely difficult to A) Catch up when you are behind and B) Put any kind of space between you and the teams behind you.

But of course we can wonder 'what if' just a bit. But to deny that we were in a dogfight in November to make the playoffs, like a few on here have already half-heartedly done, is pure Osgood homerism.

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That's not really the point though. We can all speculate on 'what if' all day long regarding Osgood. He's the king of mustering 'what if's' about himself. The point is, the Wings had absolutely zero wiggle room last season to allow Osgood to find his form. There was never any breathing room for the Wings. They started battling in November and didn't stop until April.

Everyone seems to conveniently disregard the jacked up point structure the NHL utilizes these days. With most teams getting at least one point every single game, it's extremely difficult to A) Catch up when you are behind and B) Put any kind of space between you and the teams behind you.

But of course we can wonder 'what if' just a bit. But to deny that we were in a dogfight in November to make the playoffs, like a few on here have already half-heartedly done, is pure Osgood homerism.

So you found my saying I wonder just a it what would have happened and if Ozzie could have done it again "pure Osgood homerism" even though I said...we did the right thing by starting Howard? Wow, I'm glad I didn't say we should have started Ozzie...

Edited by NomadFromKazoo
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So you found my saying I wonder just a it what would have happened and if Ozzie could have done it again "pure Osgood homerism" even though I said...we did the right thing by starting Howard? Wow, I'm glad I didn't say we should have started Ozzie...

Chill. I wasn't talking about you. I was responding to your post. Lets not start putting words into my mouth, k?

But of course we can wonder 'what if' just a bit. But to deny that we were in a dogfight in November to make the playoffs' date=' like a few on here have already half-heartedly done, is pure Osgood homerism.[/quote']

Reading comp is tech too... unless you are denying that we were in a dogfight in November, in which case the above line applies to you as well.

Edited by Broken 16

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Ozzy's expected retirement after this season is so obviously the fault of Babcock's rotation last season. He totally screwed him. It has absolutely nothing to do with the salary cap or players in the minors deserving a chance. </sarcasm>

ranting.gifranting.gifranting.gif

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Dave Tallon won a cup, I would consider it a success, was it a potentially dangerous way to do so yes, but he won Chicago a cup something that hadn't happened in a very long time! Many die hard fans probably appreciate that. I mean it is not like the are the leafs right now.

If he had not won a Cup it would have been worse, but look at the fan base he built for that team, bandwagon or not, die hard or not, Jersey sales are up, ticket sales are up, and they hoisted the cup.

Perfect example of the ends justifying the means!

If Tallon doesn't overpay Campbell and doesn't severely overpay Huet they are in a much better position already.

The ends do not justify the means.

What if I win the lottery tomorrow, what if after Howard sucks/gets hurt and Ozzie tears a groin, what if Howard went on to be a Calder candidate and help the team go from 9th to 5th, what if Howard gained valuable experience, what if Aliens landed on the planet tomorrow and had the best goaltender in the Universe who wanted to play for the Wings.

My scenarios were perfectly plausible. You are simply adding more scenarios in to belittle my point, which you haven't addressed. As a coach you have to look at all possibilities and I find it odd that he would back himself into a corner like this when he hasn't done so much in his career.

What if Babcock put in Ozzie for a 3 game stretch after the Olympics and he was as good as he was last regular season, the team loses 2 of the 3, Howard's confidence goes in the s***ter and the Wings finish 9th, how would you feel then?

What if, what if, what if, what if.

All I know is none of what you were/are worried about happened and like in almost all sports, a coaches decisions are almost always going to be seen as great or horrible, there is no middle ground any more, you appear to be offended or bothered whichever term you like the most, by Ozzie being sent to the pine.

This has nothing to do with the point I'm making. I did not like his decision and while it paid dividends, it was a very risky move and you can't honestly tell me otherwise.

Howard helped take this team to the playoffs and you are complaining about could have beens.

And even in the Sharks series I would have a hard time complaining about Howard's play, did he have a bad game, meh yeah but the special teams let the Wings down far more than Howard.

Yeah, I guess potentially evening the series up 2-2 and potentially getting swept aren't that different. Don't worry Howard, you can relax. The special teams let you down when you let in that backbreaking goal.

The special teams were not good at all, but neither was Howard. He was uncharacteristically bad.

Look at the box scores from the playoffs and see how many teams needed to score 4 goals to win, so yeah he gave up three a game, he still had a better GAA then the cup winning goaltender.

Niemi sucks, and everyone knows that.

Just because Osgood's terrible games in the second half of the season were better than one or two goaltenders' other games doesn't mean he didn't play absofriggen horrible in his few starts.

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