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redwingfan19

Mitch Callahan

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you obviously didn't get the point of my post which was trade redundancy for need. Franzen, cleary, and abby playing a full season has nothing to do with it. are you saying franzen is tough? lol instead you choose to nit pick one liitle part of my post. cleary and abby are both play gritty game but lets not kid ourselves.

So you admit that statement was ludicrous? Wings are not going to "get destroyed". Wings won't be at tough as Flyers or Rangers, but at least Wings are a contender. Is Franzen "tough"? He's not a fighter if that's what you mean, but he's as strong as an ox. Fighting isn't as important in today's hockey than it was in the 90s. Lets not kid ourselves. Having a fighter is fun and dandy, but at the end of the day, its not what wins primo factor that wins Stanely cups. Did Dallas Drake fight in the finals in 2008? Heck, Drake wasn't even an enforcer, but the important type of player in the playoffs. That's what I like Callahan, he's got skills and is gritty.

But to day this team will "get destroyed" this season is just dumb. Especially when the 2011 Wings will be a bit tougher and stronger than the 2010 team.

in 2009/10:

- How did an enforcer stop Ohlund from separating Zetterberg's shoulder?

- How did an enforcer stop Doan from taking out Ericsson?

- How did an enforcer stop Laraque from taking out Kronwall?

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Seriously? Did Brad May and his 7 minutes per night through 40 games really keep this team from getting destroyed? If anything Red Wings are bigger and stronger than last year. Franzen will be back, Cleary should be the healthiest he's been in probably 2 years, Abby should get a full season.

5'9" Bett Lebda is gone.

I don't know, but to me this year's Red Wings look stronger than last year. And who's to say Holland doesn't pick up a gritty scrub at camp. You know, someone who actually works for his chance.

I doubt one guy who plays 7 minutes through 40 games is going to put this team over the edge in terms of "toughness" and "grit".

I think what he was trying to say is that it's not fair for Abby and E to be expected to pick up the enforcing that May had last year. They are not enforcers (or close to being heavyweights), and they shouldn't be the toughest players (fighting wise) on the team. Hopefully the Wings will invite a couple players to camp and have them fight (no pun intended) for the 13th forward.

Heaten, have you thought about that friendly wager I mentioned in the Chicago trade thread?

Back on topic- Callahan is shaping up to be a good prospect. Hopefully next year he can continue to develop his offensive game and get 30+ goals. As much as I hate Tootoo, I think Callahan can develop a game very similar to his.

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So you admit that statement was ludicrous? Wings are not going to "get destroyed". Wings won't be at tough as Flyers or Rangers, but at least Wings are a contender. Is Franzen "tough"? He's not a fighter if that's what you mean, but he's as strong as an ox. Fighting isn't as important in today's hockey than it was in the 90s. Lets not kid ourselves. Having a fighter is fun and dandy, but at the end of the day, its not what wins primo factor that wins Stanely cups. Did Dallas Drake fight in the finals in 2008? Heck, Drake wasn't even an enforcer, but the important type of player in the playoffs. That's what I like Callahan, he's got skills and is gritty.

But to day this team will "get destroyed" this season is just dumb. Especially when the 2011 Wings will be a bit tougher and stronger than the 2010 team.

in 2009/10:

- How did an enforcer stop Ohlund from separating Zetterberg's shoulder?

- How did an enforcer stop Doan from taking out Ericsson?

- How did an enforcer stop Laraque from taking out Kronwall?

lol you still don't get it. even our front office knows this team needs to get tougher and by tough i dont mean a guy who just fights, a guy who can play and at least stick up for himself and teammates. but luckily our front office see's this and has started to draft accordingly, but it doesn't help the situation now. but go ahead and reply, you wont get a response from me, im done with you.

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So you admit that statement was ludicrous? Wings are not going to "get destroyed". Wings won't be at tough as Flyers or Rangers, but at least Wings are a contender. Is Franzen "tough"? He's not a fighter if that's what you mean, but he's as strong as an ox. Fighting isn't as important in today's hockey than it was in the 90s. Lets not kid ourselves. Having a fighter is fun and dandy, but at the end of the day, its not what wins primo factor that wins Stanely cups. Did Dallas Drake fight in the finals in 2008? Heck, Drake wasn't even an enforcer, but the important type of player in the playoffs. That's what I like Callahan, he's got skills and is gritty.

But to day this team will "get destroyed" this season is just dumb. Especially when the 2011 Wings will be a bit tougher and stronger than the 2010 team.

in 2009/10:

- How did an enforcer stop Ohlund from separating Zetterberg's shoulder?

- How did an enforcer stop Doan from taking out Ericsson?

- How did an enforcer stop Laraque from taking out Kronwall?

People always bring up Franzen when saying the wings are not that weak. He's strong on the puck yes but he doesn't take the body hardly at all for his size and when he does they aren't usually big hits. As for the playoffs in 2008, Mac did fight but thats not the point. Playoffs are different then the regular season and to compare them is dumb.

Having Drake smashing players left and right in the playoffs did help us win. And usually players who can hit that hard are also capable fighters, just like Drake was. Noone is saying we need an enforcer in this thread in the first place lol but more guys like Drake would be better for this team then having guys like Miller.

By the way... does anyone think Callahan will make the American world junior team next year? It would be a great chance to see what kind of hitting that kid can do

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I think what he was trying to say is that it's not fair for Abby and E to be expected to pick up the enforcing that May had last year. They are not enforcers (or close to being heavyweights), and they shouldn't be the toughest players (fighting wise) on the team. Hopefully the Wings will invite a couple players to camp and have them fight (no pun intended) for the 13th forward.

Heaten, have you thought about that friendly wager I mentioned in the Chicago trade thread?

Back on topic- Callahan is shaping up to be a good prospect. Hopefully next year he can continue to develop his offensive game and get 30+ goals. As much as I hate Tootoo, I think Callahan can develop a game very similar to his.

Well what he said was Wings are going to get destroyed. Brad May didn't play that much and I wouldn't really consider him a heavy weight, and he certainly didn't protect this team from getting "destroyed" last year (see my points in my last post). Of course Abby, Ericsson and even Eaves aren't afraid to drop the mits. In addition to that, they put up points are are actually useful to the team. Brad May only scored one goal and it didn't even count.

Yes I thought about the wager, but how many games will each player play? Will they get the same amount of minutes and ice time? Will they dress one more than the other? Hard to wager on those variables.

On topic, I am excited about Callahan, he seems to be the type of guy Wings could really use. Not only because he fights, but because he's gritty, determined, speedy and will actually chip in now and then.

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lol you still don't get it. even our front office knows this team needs to get tougher and by tough i dont mean a guy who just fights, a guy who can play and at least stick up for himself and teammates. but luckily our front office see's this and has started to draft accordingly, but it doesn't help the situation now. but go ahead and reply, you wont get a response from me, im done with you.

Yet Ken Holland is relentlessly pursuing Mike Modano. It must not be THAT important to the front office.

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Well what he said was Wings are going to get destroyed. Brad May didn't play that much and I wouldn't really consider him a heavy weight, and he certainly didn't protect this team from getting "destroyed" last year (see my points in my last post). Of course Abby, Ericsson and even Eaves aren't afraid to drop the mits. In addition to that, they put up points are are actually useful to the team. Brad May only scored one goal and it didn't even count.

Yes I thought about the wager, but how many games will each player play? Will they get the same amount of minutes and ice time? Will they dress one more than the other? Hard to wager on those variables.

On topic, I am excited about Callahan, he seems to be the type of guy Wings could really use. Not only because he fights, but because he's gritty, determined, speedy and will actually chip in now and then.

Whenever someone like you brings up how useless enforcers are they use the crappy guys the wings have had in the past as an example. May fought and did good and all but he was old, past his fighting prime and slowing down. A Brad May in his prime would've been sweet.

I for one would rather have our team next year then have May or Downey or Norton on it lol. The ppl who want tough players want more Dallas Drake type players or an actual good enforcer. May is not what ppl on here want but for some reason anti tough guy ppl always bring him up. A legit tough guy like Boll who is young and can still skate or Dallas Drake type players is what this team needs. Not the old washed up fighters Holland always brings in after camp.

Yet Ken Holland is relentlessly pursuing Mike Modano. It must not be THAT important to the front office.

Yeah hes going after the all time leading scoring american to be our third line center. Yeah I think him as our 3rd line center is better then having a grinder but that doesn't mean grinders aren't important.

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People always bring up Franzen when saying the wings are not that weak. He's strong on the puck yes but he doesn't take the body hardly at all for his size and when he does they aren't usually big hits. As for the playoffs in 2008, Mac did fight but thats not the point. Playoffs are different then the regular season and to compare them is dumb.

Having Drake smashing players left and right in the playoffs did help us win. And usually players who can hit that hard are also capable fighters, just like Drake was. Noone is saying we need an enforcer in this thread in the first place lol but more guys like Drake would be better for this team then having guys like Miller.

By the way... does anyone think Callahan will make the American world junior team next year? It would be a great chance to see what kind of hitting that kid can do

He does in big games. See SCF 2008/09 when he took out Crosby. Franzen is by no means Dallas Drake, but he is strong as an ox and will chip in for some physical play. It may look harmless on HD TV, but imagine a 220 ibs 6'3" brick bumping into you along the boards. Bone crushing? Probably not. Stingers? You bet.

I agree about your comment in regards to Drake type player.

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Whenever someone like you brings up how useless enforcers are they use the crappy guys the wings have had in the past as an example. May fought and did good and all but he was old, past his fighting prime and slowing down. A Brad May in his prime would've been sweet.

I for one would rather have our team next year then have May or Downey or Norton on it lol. The ppl who want tough players want more Dallas Drake type players or an actual good enforcer. May is not what ppl on here want but for some reason anti tough guy ppl always bring him up. A legit tough guy like Boll who is young and can still skate or Dallas Drake type players is what this team needs. Not the old washed up fighters Holland always brings in after camp.

Yeah hes going after the all time leading scoring american to be our third line center. Yeah I think him as our 3rd line center is better then having a grinder but that doesn't mean grinders aren't important.

this is my point. it's not about tough guys. it's about getting rid of redundant players to bring in guys who can counter the other teams physical play. it's not going to stop the wings from getting hit but it be nice if they had more guys who could hit back.

leave it for someone to turn it into an enforcing thread...

Edited by redwingfan19

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Well what he said was Wings are going to get destroyed. Brad May didn't play that much and I wouldn't really consider him a heavy weight, and he certainly didn't protect this team from getting "destroyed" last year (see my points in my last post). Of course Abby, Ericsson and even Eaves aren't afraid to drop the mits. In addition to that, they put up points are are actually useful to the team. Brad May only scored one goal and it didn't even count.

Yes I thought about the wager, but how many games will each player play? Will they get the same amount of minutes and ice time? Will they dress one more than the other? Hard to wager on those variables.

On topic, I am excited about Callahan, he seems to be the type of guy Wings could really use. Not only because he fights, but because he's gritty, determined, speedy and will actually chip in now and then.

I was upset about that called-off goal for a long time- May deserved that one. One specific time I can remember May protecting us from 'getting destroyed' is the game against Columbus around Christmas (I was there). Boll was taking runs at all of our skilled players. May asked him to off the faceoff and Boll refused. Boll then ran Raffy, and May forced him to go. I think most of us will agree that Philly is a tough team; however, Colton Orr took runs at every player on their team over multiple games with no retribution (Asham and he eventually fought). This doesn't happen to the Wings often, but the chances of it occurring only increase without a tough-guy. I'm probably derailing this thread too much.

I agree that the variables are large. However, I believe that most of them are determined by who is the better player- ie the better player will get more ice time, play more games, etc. It's not a big deal though- I'd be happy if either one (or both) did well enough to have a player shirt made of them. :beerbuddy:

Was Callahan playing on the first line and PP last year? I remember reading that he was going to see increased ice time last year, but I didn't see where he ended up.

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He does in big games. See SCF 2008/09 when he took out Crosby. Franzen is by no means Dallas Drake, but he is strong as an ox and will chip in for some physical play. It may look harmless on HD TV, but imagine a 220 ibs 6'3" brick bumping into you along the boards. Bone crushing? Probably not. Stingers? You bet.

I agree about your comment in regards to Drake type player.

Everyone else gets physical in the playoffs on the team as well. Its basically your duty as a hockey player. As for that hit, yeah it hurt Crosby but he also just rubbed him out and it awkwardly twisted Sid up. For every hit Mule lays there is a time he lets up where I'm yelling at the TV about how his 6'3 220lb body could've crushed someone.

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Yeah hes going after the all time leading scoring american to be our third line center. Yeah I think him as our 3rd line center is better then having a grinder but that doesn't mean grinders aren't important.

You and I agree on that. Skill over enforcers/grit for this 2010 - We have enough grit to be contenders. But if getting tougher is that important as redwingsfan19 stated, I'd think Holland would be more concerned about getting someone tough who can chip in a few goals (and play in the playoffs) for the Modano money.

This conversation stemmed from a poster saying the 2010/11 Red Wings will "get destroyed". I couldn't disagree more. I'd be happy with Modano centering our 3rd line for a year.

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errrr...

ok what i should have said instead of "getting destroyed" is that our guys always seem to get hit hard and often. it would be nice if kenny could go out and possiblly trade one of miller/meech/rittola to bring in a guy who can not be a liability and hit back. none of the above does that.

ok you win, the wings will not get "destroyed". can we get back on topic please?

Edited by redwingfan19

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Seriously? Did Brad May and his 7 minutes per night through 40 games really keep this team from getting destroyed? If anything Red Wings are bigger and stronger than last year. Franzen will be back, Cleary should be the healthiest he's been in probably 2 years, Abby should get a full season.

5'9" Bett Lebda is gone.

I don't know, but to me this year's Red Wings look stronger than last year. And who's to say Holland doesn't pick up a gritty scrub at camp. You know, someone who actually works for his chance.

I doubt one guy who plays 7 minutes through 40 games is going to put this team over the edge in terms of "toughness" and "grit".

Brad May and his 7 minutes per night did help this team to not get bullied. Mike Babcock noticed it durring May's tryout and that's why he was signed. The Brad May insurance policy was kept in the lineup until every game became critical (due to numerous losses when the team was injured) and it became worth the risk to sit him out. October and November games are not worth that risk.

Mr Nill also seems to disagree with you and believe that individual players do make a difference in toughness. He seems to identify toughness as a weakness on the current squad (rightfully so, I think) and states that a guy willing to crash, bang and fight will help address that.

Edited by Lee Norwegianwood

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Yeah Nill is saying that is our weakness so the front office must realize we need some more grit in the lineup. Holland said it after the season was over as well. They have tonnes of buzz about Callahan and how muc better he has gotten. There was so many people on this site saying he would probably never make it but now it looks very likely that he will. Not to mention he is a very good fighter pound for pound. He will most likely be able to go against everyone and do well in the league except the big heavyweights. He also seems that he won't be just a 7 minute a night enforcer, he's a Drake type that fights more and better.

This article also kinda points out my biggest concern for this guy. I was worried about his skating but it says hes a speedy player so that concern is out the door.

Looks like we have a solid 4th liner at least on the way up who can hit, fight and play. I'm excited

I agree, he seems like he will be great for the team, someone that will really help with that weakness. One thing I found interesting about Nill's statement though is he said every team has a weakness because of the cap. I wonder if the Wings management realize that "not being too tough" is the Wings weakness but realizing that the cap forces all teams to be weak in some area they are willing to let that be the Wings weakness. Not saying he does, just curious.

This kid plus Abdelkader on a line would be a beautiful thing to see. Smashing everything left and right and fighting. Or Abby on the third line so we have a really physical presence plus Cally and a bigger enforcer type on the 4th line with Cally. That would be a sick one two punch

Throw in Helm and that would be a non-stop hit fest.

You're kidding yourself if you think that fighting is not important in the sport of hockey.That's like saying tall players aren't important in basketball.

I agree fighting is a very very important part of the game but that is perhaps the worst analogy ever. :lol:

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this is my point. it's not about tough guys. it's about getting rid of redundant players to bring in guys who can counter the other teams physical play. it's not going to stop the wings from getting hit but it be nice if they had more guys who could hit back.

leave it for someone to turn it into an enforcing thread...

I thought what you meant by your "Red Wings will get destroyed" statement was by fighting? Because that would probably be the only hole some would thing this team has. Despite the fact that we have Abdelkader, Eaves, Ericsson who are all willing to drop the gloves.

If you meant Detroit will "get destroyed" physically, then wow! This team, as it stands right now, is quiet physical. The addition of Abdelkader makes them so much tougher. He's like a wrecking crew out there. Kronwall is arguably the most feared htting defenceman in the game (per some article I read a few weeks ago). Stuart, as we all know, is a nasty hitter. Players always saying how underrated Datsyuk is physically and he can sting ya. Miller / Eaves do their job. Helm is like a bullet, though not sure how much he can hurt ya. Cleary is grit and heart...

Of course Draper and Maltby have taken a step back, but Abby is replacing Maltby and this Drapers last year.

I fail to see how this team is struggling in the hitting department. Clearly they can hold their own, then some.

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You and I agree on that. Skill over enforcers/grit for this 2010 - We have enough grit to be contenders. But if getting tougher is that important as redwingsfan19 stated, I'd think Holland would be more concerned about getting someone tough who can chip in a few goals (and play in the playoffs) for the Modano money.

This conversation stemmed from a poster saying the 2010/11 Red Wings will "get destroyed". I couldn't disagree more. I'd be happy with Modano centering our 3rd line for a year.

Skill when we're talking about a 500+ goal scorer yeah. But I take a tough Drake player over most of our bottom 6 anyday. Guys like Miller aren't really needed or in the past guys like Kopecky. Sure they score a bit but I would rather on the 4th line a guy who scores 5, hits and will fight, then a guy who will score 10 because he is a bit more skilled but won't hit or fight.

No one is saying trade Dats to make cap space for Boogard here, its getting rid of players hwo don't provide a whole lot for guys who have a role and play it well like Drake did in the past.

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errrr...

ok what i should have said instead of "getting destroyed" is that our guys always seem to get hit hard and often. it would be nice if kenny could go out and possiblly trade one of miller/meech/rittola to bring in a guy who can not be a liability and hit back. none of the above does that.

ok you win, the wings will not get "destroyed". can we get back on topic please?

Puck possession teams usually get hit more because, well.. because they have the puck. If a Wings player attempts to hit players who are out of play and don't have the puck, it's a 2 minute penalty for interference or roughing.

Personally, I like the fact that DRWs are a puck possession team. Would you rather the Red Wings pass the puck to opposition players so Abdelkader or Kronwall or Stuart or Helm or Miller or Eaves could knock him through the boards?

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So you admit that statement was ludicrous? Wings are not going to "get destroyed". Wings won't be at tough as Flyers or Rangers, but at least Wings are a contender. Is Franzen "tough"? He's not a fighter if that's what you mean, but he's as strong as an ox. Fighting isn't as important in today's hockey than it was in the 90s. Lets not kid ourselves. Having a fighter is fun and dandy, but at the end of the day, its not what wins primo factor that wins Stanely cups. Did Dallas Drake fight in the finals in 2008? Heck, Drake wasn't even an enforcer, but the important type of player in the playoffs. That's what I like Callahan, he's got skills and is gritty.

But to day this team will "get destroyed" this season is just dumb. Especially when the 2011 Wings will be a bit tougher and stronger than the 2010 team.

in 2009/10:

- How did an enforcer stop Ohlund from separating Zetterberg's shoulder?

- How did an enforcer stop Doan from taking out Ericsson?

- How did an enforcer stop Laraque from taking out Kronwall?

The hits on Z and Ericsson were relatively clean, iirc. May was sadly scratched durring the game in which Laraque creamed Kronwall.

And Franzen is not tough. Tough men do not cower away in sheer terror when other, smaller men come after them on the ice. See Franzen v. Getslaf in the playoffs when Franzen made an embarassment out of the sweater - when the linesman is laughing at you, it means you're not tough. Watch Franzen when he's forced to fight - he just looks away and makes it clear that all he cares about is making sure that his precious face doesn't get touched. He's gutless, except when it comes to taking mouthguards from midgets, then he's Billy Badass.

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