Canucks Hordichuk on waivers

[Doc Holliday 1,888]

I think we should sign him and pay him Boogaard money.

[Guest Crymson]

As the 13th forward? Sure why not, it would be ahell of a lot better then Downey being here

Why not? Because we'll already be so full that we'll need to waive a player. We don't have the space for another player on the roster.

[Jesusberg 1,256]

As the 13th forward? Sure why not, it would be ahell of a lot better then Downey being here

But he's not a hell of a lot better than Miller, Ritola or even Draper being here, which is the point.

[newfy 695]

But he's not a hell of a lot better than Miller, Ritola or even Draper being here, which is the point.

Meh I think the few games he would be in he could provide something Draper can't. I know we won't get rid of Drapes but Hordi could add an element to this team, I don't reaslly want him but if he were to somehow get signed here as the 13th I wouldn't care

[Datsyerberger 279]

You can't really make an argument about the Nucks being softer then Detroit, lets get real here.

Their top line hass Burrows who is an agitator but will still throw his weight around and fight occasionally, second line is anchored by Kesler who is a physical guy and will fight a bit, 3rd line has Malhotra and Torres who are both physical guys and the 4th line has some combo of Glass, Rypien, Bolduc maybe etc.

Their defense is pretty tough too with Bieksa and company.

The wings aren't as tough as the canucks, far from it

I can and will make the argument, actually.

The Canucks do have a small handful of scrappy guys, that is true. I'll go through those players:

Burrows -- Lays some hits, agitates a bit, but he's not cleaning anyone's clock or throwing haymakers. He'll fight if it greatly favors him but avoids fights like Franzen otherwise.

Bieksa -- Yea, he plays with a mean streak and throws hits. The problem is for almost every hit he throws you get a minute of penalties. He's a terrible decision maker and commits downright brutal mistakes at (usually very bad) times. There's the reason a lot of Nucks fans want him gone despite his grit and good offense.

Kesler -- Is physical in a different manner (one which I prefer and will address more later). He's willing to commit the body with or without the puck to get the job done.

Malhotra -- Basically Cleary with less offense.

Torres -- Cleary with more penalties.

Glass -- Injury pronee, and just enough talent to hold down a #12/13 spot. Will scrum a bit but he's nothing we (or any other team) don't have in a 4th liner like Miller.

Rypien -- Probably the best pound-for-pound fighter in the league, feisty guy. Can play a few minutes without being too much of a detriment, but he's mostly there to punch people.

So there are a few gritty guys on the team. If you stack them up against the Wings on the basis of mean streak and hit totals, they probably win out handily. However, that's not all of what makes a physical team. The problem with the Nucks is that they're terrible at dealing with physical play and pressure against them. This is where Detroit gets continually underrated (and other teams pay for it)... they shrug off and play through physical play well (sorta have to in the Central). They give back what they get or simply ignored the other team's hitting. They avoid drawing penalties and frustrate the other team. They outwork opponents along the boards in spite of small size.

The Canucks, on the other hand, deal with physical play extremely poorly. Except the Sedin line and Kesler, they get outworked on the boards (especially their defense). They retaliate against hits with stupid penalties (especially Bieksa). They have more difficulties clearing the front of the net than even the Wings do and crumble under consistent physical pressure. This is why they keep folding in the playoffs and have lost to Chicago. They're much more soft than hit totals and some videos of a few dudes throwing punches implies.

And despite that, they still can't use Hordichuk. And neither can we.

Edited October 3, 2010 by Datsyerberger

[nosyt612 103]

you forgot how injury prone Rypien is.

[WorkingOvertime 536]

The only waiver player I want the Wings to pick up is Rosehill (if he gets sent down). Hopefully he gets sent down soon and the Wings can grab him (with Ritola and Miller leaving).

[newfy 695]

I can and will make the argument, actually.

The Canucks do have a small handful of scrappy guys, that is true. I'll go through those players:

Burrows -- Lays some hits, agitates a bit, but he's not cleaning anyone's clock or throwing haymakers. He'll fight if it greatly favors him but avoids fights like Franzen otherwise.

Bieksa -- Yea, he plays with a mean streak and throws hits. The problem is for almost every hit he throws you get a minute of penalties. He's a terrible decision maker and commits downright brutal mistakes at (usually very bad) times. There's the reason a lot of Nucks fans want him gone despite his grit and good offense.

Kesler -- Is physical in a different manner (one which I prefer and will address more later). He's willing to commit the body with or without the puck to get the job done.

Malhotra -- Basically Cleary with less offense.

Torres -- Cleary with more penalties.

Glass -- Injury pronee, and just enough talent to hold down a #12/13 spot. Will scrum a bit but he's nothing we (or any other team) don't have in a 4th liner like Miller.

Rypien -- Probably the best pound-for-pound fighter in the league, feisty guy. Can play a few minutes without being too much of a detriment, but he's mostly there to punch people.

So there are a few gritty guys on the team. If you stack them up against the Wings on the basis of mean streak and hit totals, they probably win out handily. However, that's not all of what makes a physical team. The problem with the Nucks is that they're terrible at dealing with physical play and pressure against them. This is where Detroit gets continually underrated (and other teams pay for it)... they shrug off and play through physical play well (sorta have to in the Central). They give back what they get or simply ignored the other team's hitting. They avoid drawing penalties and frustrate the other team. They outwork opponents along the boards in spite of small size.

The Canucks, on the other hand, deal with physical play extremely poorly. Except the Sedin line and Kesler, they get outworked on the boards (especially their defense). They retaliate against hits with stupid penalties (especially Bieksa). They have more difficulties clearing the front of the net than even the Wings do and crumble under consistent physical pressure. This is why they keep folding in the playoffs and have lost to Chicago. They're much more soft than hit totals and some videos of a few dudes throwing punches implies.

And despite that, they still can't use Hordichuk. And neither can we.

So because when the nucks get hit they take penalties makes them a less physical team then Detroit? Tanner Glass alone is tougher then anyone on Detroit, Torres is a much more physical player then Cleary, Rypien despite his size beats up guys who are almost a foot taller, Bieksa takes dumb penalties (i think youre exaggerating the amount he takes), but that doesn,t change the fact that he hits like Stuart but fights on top of that.

Then you talk about how injury prone they are like the wings aren't. Cleary, Franzen, Kronwall are extremely injury prone and some of the wings more physical guys.

Its one thing to say the wings can take a lot which they can, but they are not a tougher team (in hockey tougher teammeans more physical, tougher to play aganist, will wear you down) then pretty much every team in the league. We have alot of skilled guys and we win but people need to stop coming up with these ridiculous statements about the wings being tough because theyre just plain and simple not built that way. If we had 2 or Abdelkaders in the line up maybe, because he is pretty much our only physical forwards consistently.

And I would trade Miller for Glass straight up anyday, Glass can fill a role on a team and provide some toughness, Miller really does nothing special out there, Miller doesn't provide what Glass does at all.

The only waiver player I want the Wings to pick up is Rosehill (if he gets sent down). Hopefully he gets sent down soon and the Wings can grab him (with Ritola and Miller leaving).

Agreed 100%, he can play hockey, is fast and would fight 30 times a season

Edited October 3, 2010 by newfy

[Datsyerberger 279]

Yea, the Wings are injury prone to, but that was worth pointing out about some of the Nucks players.

Anyhow, the point of a lot of that is physicality isn't just size of hits + quantity of hits + fighting. Ability to absorb and play through physical play is as well, and it's something the Nucks do much more poorly than the Wings and several other teams.

Also, your Stuart / Bieksa comparison really isn't accurate. Stuart hits a hell of a lot more than Bieksa, hits harder on clean hits, takes less penalties, and in general uses his body a lot better. Bieksa is more offensive, and fights when his team really needs a top 4 offensive d-man on the ice. Most of Bieksa's fights just aren't good fights, they're very poorly timed for the role he plays. He's an extremely frustrating player for Canucks fans. And despite his eagerness to use the body, he just doesn't use it well a lot of the time. His hits are often shoddy, resulting in penalties or injuries to himself. And I'm not really exaggerating about his penalties; he does average about a minute of penalties for every recorded hit. His ratio was something like 112 hits:97 PIM last year. Compare that to Stuart's ~200:22

As far as fighters go, Rosehill is more the kinda guy I like. I prefer a guy that can play decent hockey and fight average to a guy that throws haymakers but plays like crap.

Edited October 3, 2010 by Datsyerberger

[newfy 695]

Yeah but then you should subtract the pims Bieksa had for fighting which is 25 and he had what 72 pims total. Plus you know a few of those are roughings sticking up for the goalie and scrumming it up. I'm not saying Bieksa is a better player by any means, just saying that while he may take dumb penatlies, it doesn't change the fact that he is physical and gets in fights etc.

Personally I say physically him and Stuart are pretty much a wash.

I would really like to see Rosehill get outta TO because he could make an NHL team, he's only 25 if Detroit could get him off the waiver wire I would be more then glad to trade Miller and waive Ritola. He can skate just as good if not better then Miller, throws big hits and is a solid heavyeight fighter. He doesn't have a scoring touch but you dont need that from him, he can skate and throw the body around well and create tonnes of energy. I think he is a fighter these boards could finally agree on playing on this team

[WorkingOvertime 536]

Yeah but then you should subtract the pims Bieksa had for fighting which is 25 and he had what 72 pims total. Plus you know a few of those are roughings sticking up for the goalie and scrumming it up. I'm not saying Bieksa is a better player by any means, just saying that while he may take dumb penatlies, it doesn't change the fact that he is physical and gets in fights etc.

Personally I say physically him and Stuart are pretty much a wash.

I would really like to see Rosehill get outta TO because he could make an NHL team, he's only 25 if Detroit could get him off the waiver wire I would be more then glad to trade Miller and waive Ritola. He can skate just as good if not better then Miller, throws big hits and is a solid heavyeight fighter. He doesn't have a scoring touch but you dont need that from him, he can skate and throw the body around well and create tonnes of energy. I think he is a fighter these boards could finally agree on playing on this team

He seems to have more of an offensive ability than a lot of the current pure enforcers in the league- this probably stems from his skating ability. He isn't a super-heavyweight, but he is tough enough to be the Wings' enforcer.

[GMRwings1983 8,804]

Hordichuk = Stanley Cup for sure

[Guest Crymson]

Newfy: With all your talk of trades, waivers and whatnot, I'm starting to think that you know very little about the intangibles of management.

Meh I think the few games he would be in he could provide something Draper can't. I know we won't get rid of Drapes but Hordi could add an element to this team, I don't reaslly want him but if he were to somehow get signed here as the 13th I wouldn't care

We don't even have room for Draper. One of he, Ritola and Miller will need to be put on waivers.

Also, Hordichuk would be the 15th forward, not the 13th.

Edited October 3, 2010 by Crymson

[WorkingOvertime 536]

Rosehill on waivers now.

[newfy 695]

Newfy: With all your talk of trades, waivers and whatnot, I'm starting to think that you know very little about the intangibles of management.

We don't even have room for Draper. One of he, Ritola and Miller will need to be put on waivers.

Also, Hordichuk would be the 15th forward, not the 13th.

What are you talking about? I said picking up a guy like Rosehill of waivers would be nice and wouldn't hurt this team... Wheres this trade talk youre referring too? And to say picking up a guy off waivers would be nice, I don't really think you need to know a bunch about management but I'm sure you've got all those intangible figured out right crymson

[Bring Back The Bruise Bros 1,029]

Get Rosehill!!! Drop Ritola and Miller.

[puckbags 863]

Get Rosehill!!! Drop Ritola and Miller.

Haha, its funny, we talk about waiving decent players like Ritola and Miller because we are too deep and don't have enough roster space. Hordichuk and Rosehill get waived because quite frankly they are terrible. Maybe we can get Rosehill and Hordichuk both signed and then we can get Downey back and the 3 of them can sit on the bench all night and try to figure out how they are going to put all 3 of their brains together and come up with one decent working brain.

[Jesusberg 1,256]

Rosehill's actually not a terrible player. There's no room for him, but if there was he'd be the kind of "enforcer" I'd want. Younger guy too.

[newfy 695]

Haha, its funny, we talk about waiving decent players like Ritola and Miller because we are too deep and don't have enough roster space. Hordichuk and Rosehill get waived because quite frankly they are terrible. Maybe we can get Rosehill and Hordichuk both signed and then we can get Downey back and the 3 of them can sit on the bench all night and try to figure out how they are going to put all 3 of their brains together and come up with one decent working brain.

Rosehill isn't playing because he's got the toughest fighter in the league enforcing the team he is with and they already have tonnes of secondary toughness. If Downey could play 60 games with our 08 team then Rosehill could definitely be used on our 4th line this season.

People assume because a guy fights a lot he's a useless goon. The guy is only 2 years older then Abddelkader who is really just breaking into the league now for us.

I would take Rosehill over Miller on this team anyday. For what Miller provides on the PK it can be made up with Abdelkader getting in there as well as Eaves, Helm and Flip all being a year older. Rosehill can get in on the forecheck, hammer guys and is pretty intimidating at 6'3 and 200+ pounds. He can skate just as well as Miller and Miller did disappear in the playoffs

[Mr. Elbows 0]

Yep..I'd find a spot for this dude. Sticking up for his skill guys...eye for an eye. He can lay the wood.

[RedOrDead 5]

Hordichuk traded to FLA http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=336487