Positives from todays practice

[Guest mindfly]

- Howard and Ericsson are ready and will play Wednesday at Calgary

- Osgood injured his groin ( ), McDonald set to back up Howard.

- Rafalski skated for 15mins and babcock hope he can play november 8th versus phoenix

- Janik sent back down to Grand Rapids

*

http://www.mlive.com/redwings/index.ssf/2010/11/red_wings_chris_osgood_injures.html

[titanium2 867]

Ericsson (is) ready and will play Wednesday at Calgary.

Please play well. Please play well. Please play well. Please play well.

- Osgood injured his groin ( ), McDonald set to back up Howard.

Babcock thinks he's out for three weeks... Ugh!... And he just had a good game where he didn't let in 3 or more goals. Poor Ozzie.

Janik sent back down to Grand Rapids

Poor esteef. Although some stats out there suggest he's been the worst dman on the ice for the Wings.

[Din758 371]

We need raffy back like its nobodys business.

[esteef 2,679]

Poor esteef. Although some stats out there suggest he's been the worst dman on the ice for the Wings.

Funny, cause I could say the same thing about Salei and Kindl.

esteef

[puckloo39 5,686]

Yay for Howard and Raffi (especially!) coming back. Big E, hope you are up to speed, we could realy benefit if you play well.

Ozzie... so sorry to hear that. He doesn't need this right now, as I felt like he was putting his game together. Once he got past the first, he played very well last game.

[Vladifan 680]

- Howard and Ericsson are ready and will play Wednesday at Calgary

- Osgood injured his groin ( ), McDonald set to back up Howard.

- Rafalski skated for 15mins and babcock hope he can play november 8th versus phoenix

- Janik sent back down to Grand Rapids

*

http://www.mlive.com/redwings/index.ssf/2010/11/red_wings_chris_osgood_injures.html

Yes indeedy, that is hilarious. :nonono:

[Guest mindfly]

It isn't hilarious but it's for the best if the wings are gonna have the best chance of getting 2pts from every game..

[titanium2 867]

Funny, cause I could say the same thing about Salei and Kindl.

esteef

Not sure how valid it is but their analysis is fairly decent:

http://www.wingingitinmotown.com/2010/10/6/1732907/cssi-tracking-post

[esteef 2,679]

Not sure how valid it is but their analysis is fairly decent:

http://www.wingingitinmotown.com/2010/10/6/1732907/cssi-tracking-post

Well the official stats look about right, but what are the CSSI Adjusted stats? Keep in mind Salei got 2 assists last game so his +/- just went up along with Kindl who was standing on the ice when 2 goals were scored as well.

esteef

Edited November 1, 2010 by esteef

[titanium2 867]

Well the official stats look about right, but what are the CSSI Adjusted stats? Keep in mind Salei got 2 assists last game so his +/- just went up along with Kindl who was standing on the ice when 2 goals were scored as well.

esteef

It's where they try to account for everything. Like that one Cleary turnover at the blue line that led to Selanne's goal. Why should Modano and Hudler get a minus? I don't remember exactly what they did for that one but they would do something along the lines of only giving Cleary the minus and Kronwall a half minus.

Note: I have no special interest in Janik and so I don't remember why they think he deserved those extra minuses. I don't have the time right now to dig through all the post game CSSI reports but the details of why he got those extra minuses are all in there.

[esteef 2,679]

It's where they try to account for everything. Like that one Cleary turnover at the blue line that led to Selanne's goal. Why should Modano and Hudler get a minus? I don't remember exactly what they did for that one but they would do something along the lines of only giving Cleary the minus and Kronwall a half minus.

Note: I have no special interest in Janik and so I don't remember why they think he deserved those extra minuses. I don't have the time right now to dig through all the post game CSSI reports but the details of why he got those extra minuses are all in there.

I'm not a huge Janik flag waiver either, just thought the negativity thrown at him by a few here was unwarranted when he's done exactly what he was brought up to do, and quite frankly, he did it better than a few others in the regular lineup. All in all, I like our D.

And Hudler and Modano SHOULD get the minus too cause they're so damned lazy!

esteef

[St. Michael (the Red Wing) 422]

- Howard and Ericsson are ready and will play Wednesday at Calgary

- Osgood injured his groin ( ), McDonald set to back up Howard.

- Rafalski skated for 15mins and babcock hope he can play november 8th versus phoenix

- Janik sent back down to Grand Rapids

*

http://www.mlive.com/redwings/index.ssf/2010/11/red_wings_chris_osgood_injures.html

All good news. Unfortunately I was hoping to read that the third line thing got figured out. On how they are a collective -16 or something. Boo...

[JJfromKansas 4]

Hey guys, J.J. from Kansas from Winging It In Motown here. I do the CSSI tracking for each game. First off, thanks for taking an interest.

titanium2 has a pretty good explanation for what the CSSI tracking is all about; I'm trying to correct the stats for context in a way that will meaningfully show which Red Wings are really doing the best out there. For instance, Drew Miller's official stats have him at a -4 rating, but he's been doing his job as a fourth-line grinder very well this season and I don't think that rating accurately reflects Miller's contributions to the team.

For the case of Janik, I don't hate the guy and he's the best solution out of Grand Rapids we had while Ericsson and Rafalski were both out, but he's proven this season why the scouts say he's a career AHLer. I've adjusted his stats a few times here and there, but I can remember the two main instances that have his rating 2.5 points worse than official.

1. He was awarded a minus for the first period fight in the Dallas game. The decision was a very poor one and the timing of the fight killed an odd-man rush for Detroit.

2. I gave him an extra 1.5 minus for the turnover to Danny Syvret in the 2nd Anaheim game. The cardinal rule of defensemen (especially defensive defensemen) is to never turn the puck over in your zone up the middle. Despite much better options on that play, Janik tried going up the middle to a covered Darren Helm and had his pass intercepted and turned into a goal.

At any rate, thanks again for the interest. I'm enjoying doing the analyses so far and I think we've got a pretty good system in place. It's still a work in progress though. If anybody has any questions, feel free to email me at jjfromkansas [at] gmail [dot] com

[Spongewingredpants 75]

Not sure how valid it is but their analysis is fairly decent:

http://www.wingingitinmotown.com/2010/10/6/1732907/cssi-tracking-post

these are stats and not analysis

[esteef 2,679]

Hey guys, J.J. from Kansas from Winging It In Motown here. I do the CSSI tracking for each game. First off, thanks for taking an interest.

titanium2 has a pretty good explanation for what the CSSI tracking is all about; I'm trying to correct the stats for context in a way that will meaningfully show which Red Wings are really doing the best out there. For instance, Drew Miller's official stats have him at a -4 rating, but he's been doing his job as a fourth-line grinder very well this season and I don't think that rating accurately reflects Miller's contributions to the team.

For the case of Janik, I don't hate the guy and he's the best solution out of Grand Rapids we had while Ericsson and Rafalski were both out, but he's proven this season why the scouts say he's a career AHLer. I've adjusted his stats a few times here and there, but I can remember the two main instances that have his rating 2.5 points worse than official.

1. He was awarded a minus for the first period fight in the Dallas game. The decision was a very poor one and the timing of the fight killed an odd-man rush for Detroit.

2. I gave him an extra 1.5 minus for the turnover to Danny Syvret in the 2nd Anaheim game. The cardinal rule of defensemen (especially defensive defensemen) is to never turn the puck over in your zone up the middle. Despite much better options on that play, Janik tried going up the middle to a covered Darren Helm and had his pass intercepted and turned into a goal.

At any rate, thanks again for the interest. I'm enjoying doing the analyses so far and I think we've got a pretty good system in place. It's still a work in progress though. If anybody has any questions, feel free to email me at jjfromkansas [at] gmail [dot] com

So these "stats" are all subjective based on what you feel is a good play or not. I'll stick with official stats thank you.

esteef

[JJfromKansas 4]

So these "stats" are all subjective based on what you feel is a good play or not. I'll stick with official stats thank you.

esteef

Yes, there is subjectivity to the adjusted scoring index. I welcome individual feedback on any plays people think I've judged either too harshly or not harshly enough.

If you're going to dismiss the entire project because of the somehow-overblown nature of the word "subjective', then I won't try to stop you. The fact remains that I'm not the only fan who believes Doug Janik was the worst Red Wings defenseman on the team during his stint with the club. I would say that Mike Babcock and Ken Holland agree with me, since he's been sent back to Grand Rapids. I just have a scoring index that backs up my claim with statistics that aren't skewed by the concept of forwards making blueline turnovers or goals scored as power plays expire.

[esteef 2,679]

Yes, there is subjectivity to the adjusted scoring index. I welcome individual feedback on any plays people think I've judged either too harshly or not harshly enough.

If you're going to dismiss the entire project because of the somehow-overblown nature of the word "subjective', then I won't try to stop you. The fact remains that I'm not the only fan who believes Doug Janik was the worst Red Wings defenseman on the team during his stint with the club. I would say that Mike Babcock and Ken Holland agree with me, since he's been sent back to Grand Rapids. I just have a scoring index that backs up my claim with statistics that aren't skewed by the concept of forwards making blueline turnovers or goals scored as power plays expire.

Feel free to continue, I just disagree with the method. Your opinion of Janik is your opinion and nothing more. Janik was sent down because he's an older bottom pairing d-man that will clear waivers easier than a young Wings prospect who are traditionally scooped up quickly off the wire, regardless of performance. Don't need "stats" to figure that out. Babcock has actually commended Janik on his play to the media, something that can't be said for Salei or Kindl.

As far as your scoring index pertaining to Janik, your first reason for docking him a +/-, the ill-timed fight in your opinion, is the most retarded thing I've ever heard. The second, the turnover that led to the goal against was already covered in the official stats. You adding another -1 because you didn't like the pass is ridiculous. Should Salei get another -1 because he didn't cover his man in front of the net that also led to a goal in that game? Because I thought that was pretty s***ty coverage. Worthy of an extra -1 though? By that logic Modano, Hudler, Salei and Kindl would all be -30's by now.

The official stats, especially with regard to +/- aren't the greatest but they are a lot more fair than your assumptive scoring of stats.

esteef

[JJfromKansas 4]

Because I thought that was pretty s***ty coverage. Worthy of an extra -1 though? By that logic Modano, Hudler, Salei and Kindl would all be -30's by now.

Yet somehow they're not. Weird how it defeats an argument for reducing to the ridiculous when you look at what I've actually done.

As far as your scoring index pertaining to Janik, your first reason for docking him a +/-, the ill-timed fight in your opinion, is the most retarded thing I've ever heard. The second, the turnover that led to the goal against was already covered in the official stats. You adding another -1 because you didn't like the pass is ridiculous.

Ah, superlatives and hyperbole, how strong they remain when used so often...

Janik got a minus rating for the fight exactly because it was ill-timed. There was no good reason for it, and it broke up an odd-man rush at a time the Wings had an opportunity to build momentum when they were only down 0-1. There's no way to say that it would have made any difference in the way that game turned out, but lots of players got minuses on that game.

The pass was worth -2.5. Turning the puck over across the middle while your team is trying to transition up ice is a cardinal sin. Even worse, it was an unforced error. It makes a lot more sense to give Janik extra minuses on the play than it does to allow both Helm and Miller to have kept their minuses when they did absolutely nothing wrong. I mean, as long as we're talking about ridiculous things...

Should Salei get another -1 because he didn't cover his man in front of the net that also led to a goal in that game? Because I thought that was pretty s***ty coverage.

Funny you should mention that because Salei DID get an extra minus for failing to cover Carter in front of the net, leading to a goal.

http://www.wingingitinmotown.com/2010/10/24/1770212/cssi-analysis-red-wings-5-ducks-4

2nd period - 6:34

Salei got an extra minus. Cleary and Hudler both did their jobs on that play and did not receive any minuses.

So you're either a big fan of Janik or just love taking the contrarian approach. Have fun with that. Janik has consistently been outplayed by both Kindl and Salei. As far as Babcock commending Janik, but not Salei or Kindl, I would let the fact that both of them averaged more ice time than Janik speak for itself. The guy's an AHLer; I appreciate that he's a serviceable NHL defenseman when he's up with the big club, but when it comes to organizational depth, he's the #8 guy. I'm sure he appreciates having a white knight out there, but if you're looking at the official stats to tell you that Janik has not been the worst defenseman the Red Wings have dressed in more than five games this season, you're wrong. I don't know what more I can tell you.

[Konnan511 1,736]

Sounds logical, I did the same sort of thing when i coached College hockey the first season and then had someone else do it for me the second years i coached. It's logical and sensible.

[titanium2 867]

Sounds logical, I did the same sort of thing when i coached College hockey the first season and then had someone else do it for me the second years i coached. It's logical and sensible.

[Konnan511 1,736]

[funny picture of Spock]

[esteef 2,679]

Blah blah blah.

So are ill-timed penalties a minus? How about crappy shift changes? Failure to finish checks? How about mishandling a pass that could've been a scoring chance? Not skating fast enough?

Have fun with your system dude.

esteef

[JJfromKansas 4]

There are plenty of ways to get pluses and minuses; I won't bore you with details. You're welcome over any time to argue the merits of individual scores. Until then, keep fighting the good fight, man.

[titanium2 867]

So are ill-timed penalties a minus? How about crappy shift changes? Failure to finish checks? How about mishandling a pass that could've been a scoring chance? Not skating fast enough?

Actually yes. I'm fairly sure they consider all that.

[titanium2 867]

There are plenty of ways to get pluses and minuses; I won't bore you with details. You're welcome over any time to argue the merits of individual scores. Until then, keep fighting the good fight, man.

You've probably demonstrated the best way I've ever seen anyone handle an argument here on LGW.