Jakub Kindl

[Guest Crymson]

The more important the situation, the more likely Ericsson is to mess up. It's beyond me how he went from solid in the first half of the season back to frighteningly stupid and careless in the second.

[Guest Heaten]

Kindl needs to be benched NOW! What an awful game.

And that Howard contract isn't looking very good right now. They guy can't stop a beach ball.

[Aussie_Wing 354]

The more important the situation, the more likely Ericsson is to mess up. It's beyond me how he went from solid in the first half of the season back to frighteningly stupid and careless in the second.

Does Ericsson actually realise he's 6'5? Needs to use his size!!

[haroldsnepsts 4,826]

Does Ericsson actually realise he's 6'5? Needs to use his size!!

That's my biggest beef with him. He's 6'5" 220 lbs, but doesn't use it to his advantage nearly enough. He needs to watch game tape of Pronger to model himself afer.

Yes, I'm serious.

[Konnan511 1,736]

Actually, it already is. The sections you made up or are completely unsupported are highlighted in bold.

Lol, how is it unsupported or made up? Look at defense pairings and the percentage they are together ES.

62% Lidstrom - Stuart

68% Ericsson - Rafalski

83% Salei - Kindl

Let's pick a random team, the Coyotes, since we played them tonight:

73% Yandle - Morris

Schlemko:

23% - Yandle

18% - Aucoin

17% - Yonkman

12% - Lepisto

Rozsival:

26% - O.E-L.

21% - Lepisto

52% Aucoin - Jovo (With Jovo out he is equally rotating with Klesla, Sclem, and Yandle)

I can do this with all the other teams and find roughly the same data set, but i just don't have the need or want to. I didn't make anything up. Everytime I present an argument it is with data and statistics and observation. Yours is "nu uh". And by the way, Babcock HAS said he likes to keep his DPairings constant.

I acknowledge the TOI and gave my observation why it was the way it is...and now I backed it up with numbers. You may think my hypothesis is absurd, but for me, and witht he numbers, it seems a damn good hypothesis. Not to mention, there are plenty rookie NHL defensmen around the league playing 10-15 minutes a night, while players who have been playing longer are player more minutes. It's not because they are better, it's because they know the system better and are veterans.

You got guys like McQuaid on Boston who is a rookie but clearly better than a some guys who are playing more minutes than him, you got Martinez in LA who has the same situation, you have all these other rookies in the same situation where they are better than guys ahead of them on the depth chart, but because they are rookies and the guys ahead of them are veterans, they are stuck playing these minutes. Same situation with Kindl.

Observation and numbers tell me Ericsson was severely outplayed...again...by Kindl. Kindl +1, Ericsson -2 while s***ting the bed on the last goal. Kindl would have been a +2 but Helm and he couldn't connect on a pass. Helm was staring straight at him and the pass was slow and between his skates and hands... Helm just took his eye off the pass.

Kindl > Ericsson.

Edited March 6, 2011 by Konnan511

[Mabuhay Red Wings 177]

That's my biggest beef with him. He's 6'5" 220 lbs, but doesn't use it to his advantage nearly enough. He needs to watch game tape of Pronger to model himself afer.

Yes, I'm serious.

Most of us on here would absolutely love that. It's never gonna happen though.

He's always going to be a player who primarily prefers to use whatever skill and hockey sense he thinks he has as opposed to his size, imo.

We should probably redirect our hopes in the ideal characteristics we wanted to see in Ericsson's development towards Brendan Smith's potential.

[Drake_Marcus 890]

Observation and numbers tell me Ericsson was severely outplayed...again...by Kindl. Kindl +1, Ericsson -2 while s***ting the bed on the last goal. Kindl would have been a +2 but Helm and he couldn't connect on a pass. Helm was staring straight at him and the pass was slow and between his skates and hands... Helm just took his eye off the pass.

Ericsson was terrible tonight-- no doubt there.

But that pass by Kindl to Helm was ******* retarded. Stupid play in that situation. There was no reason to make a risky pass in front of his own net.

[Guest Heaten]

Ericsson was terrible tonight-- no doubt there.

But that pass by Kindl to Helm was ******* retarded. Stupid play in that situation. There was no reason to make a risky pass in front of his own net.

Yup, that fckup is what lost Detroit the game. Coyotes came alive after that goal.

Kindl needs to be benched NOW!

[VM1138 1,921]

God I hope Smith doesn't turn out to be a waste like Ericsson and Kindl have.

And, I just have to say, Howard has looked great lately. This was the first game in a long time that the team actually screwed him over instead of the other way around.

[haroldsnepsts 4,826]

Lol, how is it unsupported or made up? Look at defense pairings and the percentage they are together ES.

62% Lidstrom - Stuart

68% Ericsson - Rafalski

83% Salei - Kindl

Let's pick a random team, the Coyotes, since we played them tonight:

73% Yandle - Morris

Schlemko:

23% - Yandle

18% - Aucoin

17% - Yonkman

12% - Lepisto

Rozsival:

26% - O.E-L.

21% - Lepisto

52% Aucoin - Jovo (With Jovo out he is equally rotating with Klesla, Sclem, and Yandle)

I can do this with all the other teams and find roughly the same data set, but i just don't have the need or want to. I didn't make anything up. Everytime I present an argument it is with data and statistics and observation. Yours is "nu uh". And by the way, Babcock HAS said he likes to keep his DPairings constant.

I acknowledge the TOI and gave my observation why it was the way it is...and now I backed it up with numbers. You may think my hypothesis is absurd, but for me, and witht he numbers, it seems a damn good hypothesis. Not to mention, there are plenty rookie NHL defensmen around the league playing 10-15 minutes a night, while players who have been playing longer are player more minutes. It's not because they are better, it's because they know the system better and are veterans.

You got guys like McQuaid on Boston who is a rookie but clearly better than a some guys who are playing more minutes than him, you got Martinez in LA who has the same situation, you have all these other rookies in the same situation where they are better than guys ahead of them on the depth chart, but because they are rookies and the guys ahead of them are veterans, they are stuck playing these minutes. Same situation with Kindl.

Observation and numbers tell me Ericsson was severely outplayed...again...by Kindl. Kindl +1, Ericsson -2 while s***ting the bed on the last goal. Kindl would have been a +2 but Helm and he couldn't connect on a pass. Helm was staring straight at him and the pass was slow and between his skates and hands... Helm just took his eye off the pass.

Kindl > Ericsson.

Way to ignore my point. I wasn't arguing that he doesn't usually play with Rafalski, or that defensive pairings don't tend to stay together. Of course they do. That's a pretty widely known concept. Keep a Dman with a regular partner. But the fact that defensive pairing usually stay together is not the same as saying Babcock is putting an inferior defenseman on the ice for 5 more minutes per game because he doesn't like to change pairings.

You argued that Ericsson plays more than Kindl because Babcock doesn't like to change pairings. But Rafalski, Ericsson's usual partner, is out of the lineup. Babs already doesn't have his usual pairings. So since Kindl is better than Ericsson, why wouldn't he play Kindl for more minutes since he has to change pairings anyway? At the very least, Kindl's minutes should come up, since they're missing one of the Dmen who plays 20+ minutes a night.

Yet last night Kindl took 15 shifts and played 9 minutes. Ericsson took 30 shifts and played over 21. Why?

If Kindl was clearly as superior to Ericsson as you're arguing he is, Babcock would be an idiot to play Ericsson so much more per game. Are you really going to stick with "he doesn't like to change pairings" to explain away the substantial difference in TOI per game?

Your hypothesis is absurd, because it requires that Babcock is an idiot.

You say Ericsson was severely outplayed by Kindl again last night. Aside from the major flaw in why Babcock would utilize them the way he does when Kindl is clearly better, my other point is that difference in ice time means you're not really comparing apples to apples. Kindl was out there for 15 shifts. Ericsson was out for 30. Looking good on D for 9 minutes isn't nearly as hard as doing it for 21+ minutes.

And resorting to +/- only shows the desperation of your argument (I'm not the only one who's pointed this out). Against San Jose Kindl was even, Ericsson was a -1, while Lidstrom was -2.

I guess Kindl > Ericsson > Lidstrom.

Edited March 6, 2011 by haroldsnepsts

[HankthaTank 1,100]

1 stupid pass by Kindl allows people to point the finger and say "LOOK! He is worse than Ericsson"!!!!!

Come on people, you all know that lately "Big" E has been just about the most replaceable player out there. I can't tell ya what has happened to him this year but what I do know is that he really needs some press box time to figure it the hell out. He has been glaringly bad.

[VM1138 1,921]

1 stupid pass by Kindl allows people to point the finger and say "LOOK! He is worse than Ericsson"!!!!!

Come on people, you all know that lately "Big" E has been just about the most replaceable player out there. I can't tell ya what has happened to him this year but what I do know is that he really needs some press box time to figure it the hell out. He has been glaringly bad.

The point is that neither Ericsson or Kindl, even in their best games, gives us any reason to think they'll be anything more than roster fillers in their careers. They provide nothing that makes them integral to the team's success. I don't think either one truly sucks, but that both have been a disappointment for what people were expecting of them.

[HankthaTank 1,100]

The point is that neither Ericsson or Kindl, even in their best games, gives us any reason to think they'll be anything more than roster fillers in their careers. They provide nothing that makes them integral to the team's success. I don't think either one truly sucks, but that both have been a disappointment for what people were expecting of them.

Right, but given the ice time, Kindl has looked better to me with the puck, without, and more physical even. I realize neither are going to be top 4 elite defenseman but my point was that Ericsson has been much worse. That's all.

On top of having quite a bit more experience than Kindl as well. We all know that Kindl is just getting his NHL legs while Ericsson's issues should not still be happening and at this point, getting more prevalent.

[Echolalia 2,961]

Hmm. I've been under the impression that Ericsson has been playing well as of late. The two defensmen I'm most bummed about are Lidstrom and Kronwall. Neither of them seem to be playing like themselves lately.

[Guest Heaten]

1 stupid pass by Kindl allows people to point the finger and say "LOOK! He is worse than Ericsson"!!!!!

Come on people, you all know that lately "Big" E has been just about the most replaceable player out there. I can't tell ya what has happened to him this year but what I do know is that he really needs some press box time to figure it the hell out. He has been glaringly bad.

Kronwall and Salei (and Kindl) all have been worse than Ericsson. At times, Lidstrom has looked like an average NHL defenseman. I really don't like Salei, I cringe whenever he's out on the ice.

Kindl, though has been bad, is still a rookie and will improve. Ericsson has been our 3 or 4th best defenseman this year.

[HankthaTank 1,100]

Kindl, though has been bad, is still a rookie and will improve. Ericsson has been our 3 or 4th best defenseman this year.

Over the course of this entire season, I feel that Lidstrom, Stuart, Rafalski, Kronwall, and Kindl at times has been better than Ericsson. His play just gets outright sloppy, his passes are shameful, and for being 6'5" 220 lbs. he uses none of that size whatsoever. It's too bad considering the potential he had/has. I wanted him to develop in that top 4 guy and really start scaring guys when they come to the net and in the corners but it is just not happening. Ericsson started out the season very impressively but has rapidly declined since. The last few games were awful on his part. Kindl has a higher ceiling than Ericsson and I just think for most that's a difficult thing to accept.