Best passers of the past 30 years

[eva unit zero 271]

Credibility just walked out the door. Good luck in the playoffs.

I actually like eva's list. I'd probably replace Coffey with Lidstrom though. Saw him cough the puck up way too many times in a Wings uniform. Maybe ship Janney for Francis.

Lidstrom is good, but Coffey was a magical passer in his prime. Without his speed and passing from the back end in Edmonton, those teams would have been seriously crippled. He was IMHO the second most important player to that dynasty.

Janney was average at best for a first line center in his best years, but he was an absolutely amazing passer for most of his career. I love Ronnie Franchise, but Janney was able to fill Oates' slot in St. Louis as only a minor downgrade. He was about as good at putting the puck in the net as Ruslan Salei, he was s***ty defensively, and he was weak physically, but he kept a top-six job most of his career just on his passing alone.

[Chairman Maouth 97]

Credibility just walked out the door.

It just walked back in.

[Broken 16 381]

It just walked back in.

Right, because nobody else in the history of the NHL has had a great game. Another insecure Canucks fan trying to prove the unprovable for some bizarre reason.

You guys are, without a doubt, the weirdest fan base I have ever encountered.

Your team is my second choice to win the Cup so that maybe you guys can appreciate the NHL like most other fans and ditch this highly odd group psychosis. Watching you guys function on the internet is like watching thousands of 40yr Old Virgins stumbling aimlessly into eachother spewing gibberish. It's kinda hilarious, but not fully healthy. Lol.

Edited April 2, 2011 by Broken 16

[Uncle Danny 155]

Holy crow, I can't believe I missed Sakic on my list. I'll knock Leetch out of the top, um, 11, and put Joe there. Also good to see some Francis love here. He might take Nick's place for me.

The Sedins are good...very, very good... but I think it's a wee bit of a stretch to call them all-time good. Were I Canucks fan I wouldn't take it as a slight that they're not on this list, as they're amazingly fun to watch regardless. Only three people on my original list are still active, and the only one of them could I make a serious case for being knocked off would be Lidstrom. Thornton is a no brainer for one-of-the-all-time-best, and Datsyuk is a magician.

So, I guess that gives us (trying to force rank now, but this is less science than art):

1) #99

2) #66

3) Oates

4) Thornton

5) Larionov

6) Sakic

7) Fedorov

8) Francis

9) Datsyuk

10) Weight

11) Forsberg

HM: Janney, Coffey, Lidstrom, Leetch...H Sedin

EDIT: You could take #5-8 and jumble them however you like. That was the roughest part of the ranking for me.

Edited April 2, 2011 by Uncle Danny

[Chairman Maouth 97]

The Sedins are good...very, very good... but I think it's a wee bit of a stretch to call them all-time good. Were I Canucks fan I wouldn't take it as a slight that they're not on this list, as they're amazingly fun to watch regardless.

Yeah yeah I know.

After reading a couple of my posts from yesterday I realize I shouldn't post when I've been drinking. I pretty-much zoned on the "30 years" thing. In addition, I didn't notice who was on the lists - I only noticed who wasn't.

But I'm not totally backing down.

Henrik won the Hart Trophy last year mainly on the strength of his passing/playmaking, but it's hard not to pick Gretzky over anyone when it comes to anything. His stats are ridiculous. Lemieux too. However, the sheer creativity of the Sedins in my opinion trumps even Gretzky when it comes to playmaking. Their no-look tip passes, no-look backhands behind them or between the legs - I just don't recall Gretzky going there the way the Sedins do. It's also difficult to compare different players from different eras. The talent level in professional sports is an ever-improving thing. What I'm saying is that Henrik (and Daniel) in my opinion should be on anyone's short list if they continue their current play for a a couple more years. If they're not, then said person or persons probably haven't seen them play very much.

Broken 16 -- I don't see one hockey argument in your last post at all. All I see are a bunch of insults towards me and other Canucks fans. Are you a ****** in real life or do you just play one on the internet?

[Broken 16 381]

Broken 16 -- I don't see one hockey argument in your last post at all. All I see are a bunch of insults towards me and other Canucks fans. Are you a ****** in real life or do you just play one on the internet?

No, I just get sick of every hockey message board being spammed by the weirdness. The way you guys project and use future tense as present tense is astounding.

[Chairman Maouth 97]

No, I just get sick of every hockey message board being spammed by the weirdness. The way you guys project and use future tense as present tense is astounding.

First time in nearly 6 years I've been accused of spamming. Typical noob over-reaction.

[Broken 16 381]

First time in nearly 6 years I've been accused of spamming. Typical noob over-reaction.

Didn't accuse you personally, although claiming that Sedin is the best passer in the history of the NHL qualifies as some kind of internet stupidity. You can go ahead and give it a name.

[Chairman Maouth 97]

Didn't accuse you personally, although claiming that Sedin is the best passer in the history of the NHL qualifies as some kind of internet stupidity. You can go ahead and give it a name.

There's a method to my madness. I've seen him make some of the most incredible passes and plays I've ever seen. Is the best passer one who racks up the most assists? Or one who consistently makes highlight reel plays and passes that have never been seen before? I don't know the answer and I'm too hungover to search for it in my brain.

[Broken 16 381]

There's a method to my madness. I've seen him make some of the most incredible passes and plays I've ever seen. Is the best passer one who racks up the most assists? Or one who consistently makes highlight reel plays and passes that have never been seen before? I don't know the answer and I'm too hungover to search for it in my brain.

I could easily say the same, EXACT s*** about Datsyuk. But I would never make a claim that he is the best passer ever because there is really no way to quantify it. You may as well claim that Sedin has the sharpest skates in the NHL.

Edited April 2, 2011 by Broken 16

[Heroes of Hockeytown 694]

However, the sheer creativity of the Sedins in my opinion trumps even Gretzky when it comes to playmaking. Their no-look tip passes, no-look backhands behind them or between the legs - I just don't recall Gretzky going there the way the Sedins do.

I can't really comment on Gretzky, especially in his prime, but even if that's the case, flashiness isn't a good measure of effectiveness.

It's also difficult to compare different players from different eras. The talent level in professional sports is an ever-improving thing.

I agree, however Gretzky seems to have graded out pretty well in the transition from high scoring 80's hockey to dead-puck era 90's hockey. Consider: in 1997, near the end of his career, with a bad back, with clutch and grab defensive hockey taking center stage, Gretzky led the NHL in assists with 72 -- which is as many as Henrik has right now.

I find ranking a player against his peers is a good way of determining "best players" across eras. And in that Gretzky is unrivaled: he led the NHL in assists in all but four years of his career, including one that was mostly lost to injury.

[Chairman Maouth 97]

I can't really comment on Gretzky, especially in his prime, but even if that's the case, flashiness isn't a good measure of effectiveness.

I think the fact that Henrik won the Art Ross and Hart mainly on assists indicates there's more to him than failed attempts at flashy passes.

I find ranking a player against his peers is a good way of determining "best players" across eras. And in that Gretzky is unrivaled: he led the NHL in assists in all but four years of his career, including one that was mostly lost to injury.

If that's true, (and I'm not saying it isn't) then Gretzky could stand as the best at everything for a very long time. However there is still the reality to do deal with; that being that every year conditioning improves, skating improves, shots improve, etc., etc. I think what you suggested may be the best way to gauge things though.

[eva unit zero 271]

I find ranking a player against his peers is a good way of determining "best players" across eras. And in that Gretzky is unrivaled: he led the NHL in assists in all but four years of his career, including one that was mostly lost to injury.

I don't agree with this. What if we take Yzerman, Fedorov, Lidstrom, Datsyuk, Crosby, Sedin, Jagr, Lindros, Roenick or anyone else of that kind of level or greater and send them back 50 or 75 years with the same ability? They would be a dominant player. Brad Stuart would be a top defenseman. Jiri Fischer? He would have been legendary. Chris Osgood would have been a star goaltender.

The overall level of players has improved; the league has a much deeper level of talent than previously existed and there are still dominant players; by extension this means that the dominant players are also better than what dominated the league at a similar level previously.

Chris Osgood is a good example of this depth. He was a Vezina contender several times, and a consistent winner even on bad teams, but never actually won a Vezina. In previous eras, even as recently as the 80s, a goalie as good as Osgood would have been considered a dominant netminder, the kind teams just wouldn't want to play.

[Heroes of Hockeytown 694]

I think the fact that Henrik won the Art Ross and Hart mainly on assists indicates there's more to him than failed attempts at flashy passes.

I would hardly say that's the case either. However, if the goal is to set up your teammates to score, than a relatively boring pass is as good as a fancy one, so long as the puck ends up in the net.

I don't agree with this. What if we take Yzerman, Fedorov, Lidstrom, Datsyuk, Crosby, Sedin, Jagr, Lindros, Roenick or anyone else of that kind of level or greater and send them back 50 or 75 years with the same ability? They would be a dominant player. Brad Stuart would be a top defenseman. Jiri Fischer? He would have been legendary. Chris Osgood would have been a star goaltender.

Yes, I know, but I still prefer a relative comparison to the absolute one. I don't think that a mediocre player from one era should be considered greater than a star player from a previous era.

[eva unit zero 271]

I would hardly say that's the case either. However, if the goal is to set up your teammates to score, than a relatively boring pass is as good as a fancy one, so long as the puck ends up in the net.

That's only the result of a number of factors. The other day Modano set Abdelkader up for a gimme tip in on the backdoor on a rush, and Abby whiffed in the crease trying to one-time it instead of just redirect.

There's more to an assist than just being a good passer. The goal has to be scored. The passing play is equally if not more important (Abby, had he redirected, would have been far less important to the play than Modano's pass) but you can't just rate a passer on their assist count.

Especially with guys who are like Janney who are great passers but don't get top line time because that's their only asset. Imagine Janney as the second line center on a team that doesn't have many scoring forwards? He'd have nobody to pass to. Maybe he gets power play time, and is labeled as a PP specialist. But he could be much more useful with even a moderately talented finisher.

What makes a great passer is the ability to get the puck to its destination, even through or around obstacles. What makes a great playmaker is the ability to use passing skill, which is basically required to be a great playmaker, to create scoring chances or improve already existing chances. A great passer can make a breakout pass to start a rush going in the other direction which can change the momentum of the game, or find a weak spot in the opposition defense and get the puck there across the ice through multiple defenders to the recipient for a one-timer or scoring chance. A great passer certainly will pass normally quite often, but the difference between a great passer and a 'normal' passer is the ability to execute these tasks.

Great passes do not always result in goals. Great passers do not always end up among the league leaders in assists. They are still great passers. I will again bring up Scott Gomez. He has always been an excellent passer, yet he has not been leading the league in assists. He's still a damn good passer. Better than almost anyone on the Wings.

[Guest Shoreline]

I think Henrik is top three and possibly the number one passer ever -- and Daniel isn't far behind. For me, my opinion trumps yours. For you, yours trumps mine.

In all fairness the exposure to Henrik and Daniel outside of Vancouver is somewhat minimal, especially lacking playoff dominance. It took Lids an awful long time to get the attention he deserved too. I wouldn't worry much about a crappy list.

Edited April 2, 2011 by Shoreline

[Chairman Maouth 97]

In all fairness the exposure to Henrik and Daniel outside of Vancouver is somewhat minimal, especially lacking playoff dominance. It took Lids an awful long time to get the attention he deserved too. I wouldn't worry much about a crappy list.

Yeah that was the beer talking and me not properly comprehending what I was replying to. I still think they should probably be on anyone's short list though -- if not now, then after another couple seasons.

[HankthaTank 1,100]

Yeah that was the beer talking and me not properly comprehending what I was replying to. I still think they should probably be on anyone's short list though -- if not now, then after another couple seasons.

As long as it was Molson

Either way, you took what I said a tad out of context. I was just stating in the past 30 years, there have been some better passers in the top 10. Sedins are truly amazingly skilled though and will make this list soon enough.

[Chairman Maouth 97]

As long as it was Molson

Either way, you took what I said a tad out of context. I was just stating in the past 30 years, there have been some better passers in the top 10. Sedins are truly amazingly skilled though and will make this list soon enough.

Through the haze I saw one thing but didn't see another.

In the title I saw "Best passers". In the OP I didn't see Henrik Sedin. Then I started writing. From there it was all downhill and here I am today; a posterchild for abstinence.