2010-2011 Central Hockey League Champions

[SouthernWingsFan 854]

I know this is a Red Wings forum and most of you don't really care about Minor League Hockey especially a team all the way in Louisiana but this is another one of my teams. At one point between the Western Pro Hockey League and the East Coast Hockey League there were about 7 or 8 teams in Louisiana. Through the years the teams have vanished one by one. When the WPHL and the Central Hockey League Merged the Bossier-Shreveport MudBugs were the only team to survive the merger. I was born in Louisiana and lived there for 13 years. Now there is 2 teams in Louisiana the Bossier-Shreveport MudBugs and the Louisiana IceGators.

In the WPHL the MudBugs won 3 Championships in a Row and the last one they won was ten years ago. Last night in Game 7 of the CHL Ray Miron President's Cup Finals the Bossier-Shreveport MudBugs defeated the Colorado Eagles by the final score of 2-1 to win their first Championship in ten years. I really cannot express how I feel right now. The only thing that could make me feel any better than the way I do right now is if the Detroit Red Wings would have Won the Stanley Cup as well.

I know most of you don't care about this but I really had to post this becasue this means so much to me becasue at the time I lived in Louisiana there were no hockey teams and I've been following this team since Day 1. It is interesting to note that there are at least 3 or more players from Michigan on the team. So I guess if there is any way to associate this thread with what this forum is it would be that. But I just wanted to create this thread and say Congratulations to the Bossier-Shreveport MudBugs for winning the 2010-2011 Central Hockey League Ray Miron Presidnt's Cup Championship!!!!

Cool stuff.

I barely follow minor league hockey anymore but I remember when there was decent hockey presence in this state in the late 90s/early part of last decade. Every main metropolitan area had a minor league team at one point (New Orleans, Baton Rouge, Lafayette in South Central LA, Lake Charles in SW LA, Alexandria in central Louisiana, Shreveport area, and Monroe in Northeast Louisiana area)

I went to college in the Dallas-Fort Worth area, in Fort Worth, and Fort Worth at the time had a team in either the Central Hockey League (which is now back not in Fort Worth itself, but the Metroplex area). I was into them a good bit my first two years of college there but then school and money costs and the like slowly put it out of the picture. Bossier City/Shreveport was in the same league obviously.

Was good times seeing that much prescence in my home state a while back. Again while I'm not really into the minors anymore in-depth, I try to make a short drive to one minor league game a year, either in Lafayette to see the Ice Gators or to see the now Misssissippi Surge, both of the Southern Professional Hockey League now. Mississippi (they play in Biloxi) is actually closer to me, only about a 75 minute drive roughly. Lafayette is about two hour drive away from me.

And I don't really worry about wanting a bigger hockey prescence down here or whatever. It'd be nice obviously but I know where I'm at, it's home for me, and for the most part there's little/no attention to it in general for the average person if it's just your run-of-the-mill regular season game or whatever, which isn't going to change soon. Doesn't really bother me. I like watching it, I don't really try to force it down other people, so that's good enough for me.

Edited June 10, 2011 by SouthernWingsFan

[cusimano_brothers 1,655]

Until I did a Google/Wikipedia search, I had no idea what a mudbug is.

[PredsFanTheBayouState 263]

After Wiinning the CHL Chamionship this season the MudBugs have ceased Operations. I didn't realize how bad off they were financially until after the Finals were over. Needless to say I'm crushed. This really hurts. ALOT.

i was shocked when i read on the icegators facebook page that the mudbugs have ceased operations.

now we are down to one hockey team in louisiana

[PredsFanTheBayouState 263]

Until I did a Google/Wikipedia search, I had no idea what a mudbug is.

most people don't know what a mudbug is.

i will not eat those things

[Dimaline312000 51]

Cool stuff.

I barely follow minor league hockey anymore but I remember when there was decent hockey presence in this state in the late 90s/early part of last decade. Every main metropolitan area had a minor league team at one point (New Orleans, Baton Rouge, Lafayette in South Central LA, Lake Charles in SW LA, Alexandria in central Louisiana, Shreveport area, and Monroe in Northeast Louisiana area)

I went to college in the Dallas-Fort Worth area, in Fort Worth, and Fort Worth at the time had a team in either the Central Hockey League (which is now back not in Fort Worth itself, but the Metroplex area). I was into them a good bit my first two years of college there but then school and money costs and the like slowly put it out of the picture. Bossier City/Shreveport was in the same league obviously.

Was good times seeing that much prescence in my home state a while back. Again while I'm not really into the minors anymore in-depth, I try to make a short drive to one minor league game a year, either in Lafayette to see the Ice Gators or to see the now Misssissippi Surge, both of the Southern Professional Hockey League now. Mississippi (they play in Biloxi) is actually closer to me, only about a 75 minute drive roughly. Lafayette is about two hour drive away from me.

And I don't really worry about wanting a bigger hockey prescence down here or whatever. It'd be nice obviously but I know where I'm at, it's home for me, and for the most part there's little/no attention to it in general for the average person if it's just your run-of-the-mill regular season game or whatever, which isn't going to change soon. Doesn't really bother me. I like watching it, I don't really try to force it down other people, so that's good enough for me.

I'm a huge Minor League fan like I've said on this thread earlier I follow all the hockey I can that way when it gets to be this time of the year and hockey season is getting over I follow teams to stay involved in hockey and to try to keep up on all the Hockey I can. In the NHL during the off-season I only have about 3 days to look forward to. The Draft Weekend and July 1st when the Free Agent Market opens up. If I follow minor and junior league hockey I get to hear new news almost every week that that excites me a lot and gets me even more primed up for the coming season(s). I've never been to any Hockey games in Louisiana. I would have loved to be able to but now that I live in Michigan I haven't been back down to Louisiana since I moved and I ceartainly can't afford to go down just for a couple hockey games but being that Louisiana is my Birth State it still holds a special place in my heart and having my favorite sport down there means a lot to me. I know that a lot of the Southern States don't really get much hockey becasue of the Fan Base and the type of people that are down there are used to the heat and aren't really hockey oriented but I do encourage anyone and everyone who is interested to get to games and show your support especially for reasons like this you never know in Minor or Junior League Hockey when you team could shut down shop and you may or may not ever see them again. I'd never try to force hockey on anyone but it is a great sport and I hate seein any and all teams shut down becasue I believe it weakens the sport and to me that is a horrible thing. This sport really needs to grow in the US and it can't do that when teams shut down. I hope I do get to see the MudBugs play again one day even if it meant going into a lower league but if I don't it has been a great ride for the team and I wish the best to the entire organization whereever they go from here. I remember The Fort Worth Brahmas they were a great team in the CHL with the MudBugs it's just a shame teams have to shut down for whatever reason. Yep now we are back down to just one team in Louisiana. Major Bummer.

[Krystal 41]

Man that really bites! I know the CHL is doing their yearly meeting in Arizona right now, in regards to the league and any changes to be made (like last year, when the CHL merged together with the IHL) but I had no idea that Shreveport had actually closed up shop

What a way to go out though man.. if you're gonna bow out - do it on top!

[Dimaline312000 51]

Man that really bites! I know the CHL is doing their yearly meeting in Arizona right now, in regards to the league and any changes to be made (like last year, when the CHL merged together with the IHL) but I had no idea that Shreveport had actually closed up shop

What a way to go out though man.. if you're gonna bow out - do it on top!

Very true if you're going to go out it may as well be as the Champs. I just e-mailed the team to discuss the possibility of instead of ceasing operations maybe going into the USHL or another Junior League in which the players do not get payed therefore making all ticket or merchandise sales profitable to the team. The team I follow that was in the IHL last season the Muskegon Lumberjacks went to the USHL this season and I think the team is doing better now at least they haven't shut down shop so maybe it will be a possibility. I don't know If I'll get a response but well see.

[Krystal 41]

The real issue would stem from why they ceased operations to begin with. Moving leagues won't help if they're having an issue with reaching a deal with their venue or the city...

Someone else heard a rumor that the entire LEAGUE is ceasing operations this year, but I -really- don't think that's what's happening. Especially not after their 97 sellouts this season throughout the whole league. Granted, Colorado has up and left the entire league.. so maybe that has something to do with the speculation.

[Dimaline312000 51]

The real issue would stem from why they ceased operations to begin with. Moving leagues won't help if they're having an issue with reaching a deal with their venue or the city...

Someone else heard a rumor that the entire LEAGUE is ceasing operations this year, but I -really- don't think that's what's happening. Especially not after their 97 sellouts this season throughout the whole league. Granted, Colorado has up and left the entire league.. so maybe that has something to do with the speculation.

That's very true, I don't know what the problem is as to why they are ceasing operations my feeling was it was a financial thing becasue on their site they made it sould like they were in a frantic effort to sell a certain amount of Season Tickets and when they didn't sell enough they put on their site that they were shutting down shop so that is the only reason that thought it might be a financial issue. If it's a venue or city thing than no switching to the USHL won't really do a whole lot of good but if it were a financial thing they might be able to save money and still keep going as a team if they didn't have to pay their players. I certainly hope that the Central Hockey League isn't shutting down completley but I do see that Bossier is gone along with Colorado and Quad City and Odessa has gone to the North American Hockey League which is another American Based Junior League so I do feel something may be up but that would be horrible if that did happen and that would really weaken Minor-Pro Hockey here in the US, at least I think so. There needs to be a league that players can go to if they aren't good enough to play in the ECHL, AHL, or NHL and if they are too old for any Junior League. I know that once Muskegon went from Pro to Junior most of the players that still had some hockey left in them went to Italy and a couple other European Countries but I don't think that would be good for Hockey here in America. Not much I can do about it either way but I certainly hope that the CHL isn't closing too.

[FireCaptain 563]

WHAT?? I hate the MudSlugs, but they were a great rivalry to the Riverkings.. Bummer.

OK, and after reading all the above and checking around, apparently the Riverkings are moving to the SPHL. Ugh.

After Wiinning the CHL Chamionship this season the MudBugs have ceased Operations. I didn't realize how bad off they were financially until after the Finals were over. Needless to say I'm crushed. This really hurts. ALOT.

Edited June 14, 2011 by FireCaptain

[Dimaline312000 51]

WHAT?? I hate the MudSlugs, but they were a great rivalry to the Riverkings.. Bummer.

OK, and after reading all the above and checking around, apparently the Riverkings are moving to the SPHL. Ugh.

I think that Memphis was the team that former Flint Genearls Coach Robbie Nicholls coached for a few seasons in the CHL but I'm not sure. Wow the RiverKings are leaving the CHL too. Perhaps someting is going to happen to the CHL. I hope not I thought years ago when the WPHL and the CHL merged it would help the league. Granted that was like 10 years ago and times can definetly change things but it would just be a shame to lose the CHL. Hopefully something can be done to keep Minor-Pro Hockey strong here in the States. All I know for sure is that the MudBugs will be missed ALOT.

[FireCaptain 563]

The rumors/gossip I read said that the Bugs will be back after next season but in the SPHL as well.

This article speculates that the CHL is the sinking ship in all of this.

http://www.oaoa.com/sports/hockey-64273-odessa-league.html

I think that Memphis was the team that former Flint Genearls Coach Robbie Nicholls coached for a few seasons in the CHL but I'm not sure. Wow the RiverKings are leaving the CHL too. Perhaps someting is going to happen to the CHL. I hope not I thought years ago when the WPHL and the CHL merged it would help the league. Granted that was like 10 years ago and times can definetly change things but it would just be a shame to lose the CHL. Hopefully something can be done to keep Minor-Pro Hockey strong here in the States. All I know for sure is that the MudBugs will be missed ALOT.

[Krystal 41]

According to that site, it looks like my Mavericks are considering moving to the ECHL too o.O I gotta wonder what this is going to do with the player signings and whatnot, if they switch leagues and they have different systems.

If I have to lose a third team here, I might cry ;_;

EDIT: Not happening!

http://centralhockeyleague.com/pressroom/news/?article_id=6619

CHL Operations Issues Determined for 2011-12 Season

Conference Alignment, Participating Teams and Schedule Details Finalized at Summer Conference

TEMPE, AZ (June 14, 2011) – In preparation for the Central Hockey League’s (CHL) historic 20th Anniversary Season, the league announced several operational issues that were determined by the CHL Board of Governors during meetings at the league’s annual Summer Conference that took place at the Talking Stick Resort in Scottsdale, Arizona on June 10 and 11.

The CHL announced that 14 teams will be participating during the 2011-12 season with two seven-team conferences. The Turner Conference will consist of the Dayton Gems, Evansville IceMen, Fort Wayne Komets, Missouri Mavericks, Quad City Mallards, Rapid City Rush and the new Bloomington club that has yet to determine their team name. The Berry Conference will be made-up by the Allen Americans, Arizona Sundogs, Laredo Bucks, Rio Grande Valley Killer Bees, Texas Brahmas, Tulsa Oilers and the Wichita Thunder. The Thunder are the lone CHL team that played during the 2010-11 season that will be shifting conferences, moving from the Turner to the Berry for the upcoming season.

Turner Conference

Bloomington (team name TBD)

Dayton Gems

Evansville IceMen

Fort Wayne Komets

Missouri Mavericks

Quad City Mallards

Rapid City Rush

Berry Conference

Allen Americans

Arizona Sundogs

Laredo Bucks

Rio Grande Valley Killer Bees

Texas Brahmas

Tulsa Oilers

Wichita Thunder

Teams that participated last season that are not on the CHL’s roster of teams are the Bossier-Shreveport Mudbugs, Colorado Eagles, Mississippi RiverKings and the Odessa Jackalopes.

“We were notified just prior to our meetings on Friday that the Mudbugs would not be able to defend their title,” said Duane Lewis, CHL Commissioner. “We thank Tommy and Leslie Scott for their efforts, dedications and leadership over the past two seasons and as the CHL family will miss them deeply. We do understand the numerous issues and challenges they faced to make the Mudbugs a financially viable franchise and do respect and understand their decision to cease operations.

“We would also like to express our sincere appreciate the RiverKings contributions to the CHL as one of the League’s original members,” Lewis continued. “We thank the RiverKings, Maddox Hockey and the Maddox Foundation for their commitment and tenure in the CHL.”

Players from the Mudbugs and RiverKings will join the players from the Colorado Eagles (announced in late May that they would not be participating in the CHL) as unrestricted free agents within the league. Additionally, the players from the Odessa Jackalopes are also free agents as the team failed to submit their summer player protection list by the June 10 deadline.

The league’s playing schedule for the 2011-12 season will be announced later this summer but it was determined that for the second straight season, that each team will play 66 games during the regular season.

Edited June 14, 2011 by Krystal

[Dimaline312000 51]

Well as far as the MudBugs go I hope they do come back even if they are in the SPHL at least they will be back so I really hope that happens. Mavericks switching to the ECHL migt be a good thing even if they have to change systems a big I imagine that player siginings will consist of a little bit better talent on the roster. I've heard great things about the ECHL but I've never been to a game. I can't see them going under or anything I think if the CHL is sinking than it would be best if as many teams as possible can jump ship now. Like I've said before I'd hate to lose a league like the CHL becasue it really does consist of a different level of players as far as skill goes and it would suck for those players to not have anywhere to play here in the US and forcing them to go overseas to play hockey. It would be a HUGE Jump from SPHL all the way to ECHL if there was no CHL in between for players to progress through their careers and develop the skills needed to maybe one day get to the NHL. For all those Junior Players that don't get drafted or even do get drafted that don't develop their skills that quick and have to come up the hard way. People underestimate the importance of Minor League Hockey, it's often over looked or not followed. However I do believe that Minor League Hockey is very important to the sport and the higer levels of the sport. I'd love nothing more than to go back to the days were there were the SPHL, UHL, WCHL, WPHL, CHL, ECHL, IHL, AHL and NHL. I know people may say that having more league doesn't necessarily mean more strength for the sport of Hockey but I believe it does and being able to have teams that you can go see when you can't afford to go to NHL Games makes for more enjoyment of the sport. In this Economy it would help to have more teams and leagues but it's this economy as to why so many teams and leagues are going under and it's a ******* Crying Shame.

My apologize for my language at the end.

[Krystal 41]

Well the player signings I was wondering more on the restriction level. In the CHL you can only sign four "veterans" per team (a vet being someone who's played 4+ years at the minor/NHL level). I don't know if the ECHL would have that sort of player cap.

It's not the economy that's doing bad things in the CHL... granted, I know that Bossier-Shreveport lost the MudBugs due to not having enough money - but I think that's an isolated scenario. On the MudBugs Facebook page there were a lot of local complaints that there wasn't enough support in general and that they had just voted to increase taxes/drop serious cash on a new casino instead. Once you factor in more attractions in the area (other pro sports teams, casinos, etc) then the market gets spread thin and everybody sees a little less money coming in.

As far as the teams leaving to the ECHL - they're moving out of a smaller league and into a bigger one because they're doing that well financially. Hell - Colorado sold out every single game this past season, including every playoff game. They're in that kind of a market though, they're in the mountains where hockey is a familiar sport, the Avs won the Cup in 2001 and obviously brought even more interest to the sport to that area... and that's not the luxury every location is going to have. When you combine how well they're doing, and some of the league restrictions the CHL has, then there's really no question as to what would serve the best interest of the franchise.

[Dimaline312000 51]

Well the player signings I was wondering more on the restriction level. In the CHL you can only sign four "veterans" per team (a vet being someone who's played 4+ years at the minor/NHL level). I don't know if the ECHL would have that sort of player cap.

It's not the economy that's doing bad things in the CHL... granted, I know that Bossier-Shreveport lost the MudBugs due to not having enough money - but I think that's an isolated scenario. On the MudBugs Facebook page there were a lot of local complaints that there wasn't enough support in general and that they had just voted to increase taxes/drop serious cash on a new casino instead. Once you factor in more attractions in the area (other pro sports teams, casinos, etc) then the market gets spread thin and everybody sees a little less money coming in.

As far as the teams leaving to the ECHL - they're moving out of a smaller league and into a bigger one because they're doing that well financially. Hell - Colorado sold out every single game this past season, including every playoff game. They're in that kind of a market though, they're in the mountains where hockey is a familiar sport, the Avs won the Cup in 2001 and obviously brought even more interest to the sport to that area... and that's not the luxury every location is going to have. When you combine how well they're doing, and some of the league restrictions the CHL has, then there's really no question as to what would serve the best interest of the franchise.

I get what you mean. I didn't hear about a new Casino but it doesn't suprise me. In Southern states like Louisiana a sport like Hockey will be one of the first sports to suffer any type of loss of team. You should go to the ECHL website and maybe that can tell you what type of restrictions that league has for players. I know that the CHL has done real well as far as teams selling out games and that's great but as you say it's that type of market. The way I see it is if teams are leaving the CHL where does that put the league?? It's great to see teams like Colorado and other teams move up to the ECHL but it really makes me wonder after all these seasons of being in the CHL why the change now? It makes me wonder if the CHL is in trouble. Let's look at it a minute. MudBugs are gone. Quad City Mallard were going to be gone as well but at the last minute got new ownership and stays. Colorado to the ECHL, I haven't heard anything officail on the Mavericks but they may be another team leaving for the ECHL. RiverKings I hear are going to the SPHL. Odessa to the NAHL next season so that's like 4 or 5 teams that the CHL has lost in one season. If the IHL wouldn't have been such a bust than the IHL and CHL would have never mergd and you could take away Bloomington, Fort Wayne, Quad City, and Dayton come next season that leaves maybe 8 or 10 teams after all is said and done. Now of course all the IHL teams aren't going anywhere as of right now but it does make me wonder if something is going to happen to the CHL and if it does what happens to those other teams? Sure I think some of them could go to ECHL becasue they are also in a Good Hockey Market but for some other teams it could mean going to the SPHL or becoming a Junior League team like Odessa is doing. The economy is not always to blame for teams going under but in certain markets the economy is a big factor in all of this. Remember there used to be 6 or 8 Minor Hockey Leagues here in the us now there's what 4 and if the CHL does go belly up 3, and where does that put a lot of players that have to come up the hard way? So while the Economy can't always be blamed it has a big factor on Minor League Hockey over the years. Ownership and a good fanbase can only go so far Market is everything now-a-days. I just don't want to see something like that happen. Having the CHL up and going I think is really important for Hockey here in the USA. I know I'm repeating a lof of what I've said but I'm just wondering what's going on and how it could affect Hockey here. I think it could have a huge negative impact if the CHL can't stay afloat.

[Dimaline312000 51]

Check this link out. Hopefully it will work it has some very interesting reading. If it doesn't work I'll just post the article on here so let me know if you can access it or not. Thanks.

http://www.news-sentinel.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20110616/SPORTS/106160315/1002

[Krystal 41]

I was reading a big 7-page discussion on the CHL's latest issues on HFBoards earlier. One of the posters goes into pretty good detail about which teams would be likely candidates to move based on their attendance/revenue/etc.

Also there's a rumor of a luxury tax being implemented into the CHL - so who knows right now.

[FireCaptain 563]

Link?

I was reading a big 7-page discussion on the CHL's latest issues on HFBoards earlier. One of the posters goes into pretty good detail about which teams would be likely candidates to move based on their attendance/revenue/etc.

Also there's a rumor of a luxury tax being implemented into the CHL - so who knows right now.

[Krystal 41]

HFBoards: http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=905896

Luxury Tax article: http://www.themonitor.com/sports/probably-50667-bees-bucks.html

Here's one that refuted the claim they're going to implement the luxury tax - which I know would make my team better off without: http://www.journalgazette.net/article/20110614/BLOGS11/110619750

[FireCaptain 563]

Lots of interesting stuff in that HF thread.. so much drama and intrigue.

Some folks were speculating the combination of a bunch of the little leagues to create an ECHL "Superleague". Does anyone know if that's an actually possibility or is it just an internet forum dream?

HFBoards: http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=905896

Luxury Tax article: http://www.themonitor.com/sports/probably-50667-bees-bucks.html

Here's one that refuted the claim they're going to implement the luxury tax - which I know would make my team better off without: http://www.journalgazette.net/article/20110614/BLOGS11/110619750

[Dimaline312000 51]

Well I'm really glad that the CHL isn't going down at least not right now. This keeps quite a bit of Minor League Hockey going strong. Not having a league in between the SPHL and the ECHL probably would have ment that a lot o players that play Minor Pro Hockey here in the US off to Europe to get more money while developing skills to be able to come to the ECHL or AHL. A Luxury Tax could be a good thing or a bad thing, I think it's more important to keep all teams in the league on a level playing feild. Because one team is doing better financially than another team shouldn't mean that they could spend more for any type or reason; the one reason that comes to mind is to get better players attracted to that team instead of a team not doing so well. I think the most important thing is like the articl I post said is that the Minor League Hockey Model be fixed. That may or may not happen and if it does it may be a while. It's a shame that the Economy has such an effect on Hockey but I think that's the biggest reason why all Hockey and Sports are in trouble.

I look to the Muskegon team that I've supported for past 12 - 14 Seasons. The Muskegon Fury they were the best team in the UHL. They won 4 League Championships in 7 seasons and by the time they had won their 2nd and was going for their 3rd and 4th in Back to Back Seasons they were already named Best Minor League Hockey Team. If you look in old Issues of the Hockey News and other Hockey Magazines and Articles you can see that. Than after the 06/07 the UHL Ceased Operations and the New IHL came to be the 3 Seasons that the League was alive saw the Fort Wayne Komets win all 3 League Championships each season; They may as well have called it the Fort Wayne Hockey League but the Komets were in a good market with a good fan-base and good ownership. After the IHL went away in the 09/10 season we saw a good number of teams go to the CHL and In My Honest Opnion they were the teams in better financial shape. If you look at the Michigan teams from the UHL/IHL There was Kalamazoo which seems do be doing well in the ECHL and that's great Flint, Port Huron and Muskegon all either went to a Junior League or ceased operations.

I think that is a direct result of the Economy here in Michigan. Muskegon Lost it's 50 years of Pro Hockey as 09/10 was it's last season. Muskegon a team that was deemed the best in all Minor Pro Hockey stopped playing pro hockey and was forced to go to the USHL. Muskegon I do believe is one of if not the worst Counties in Muskegon as far as jobless people and economic decline over the years so that is certainly going to affect any type of sports no matter what league. The main point I'm trying to make is that Minor League Hockey is suffering dearly and it is a result of the Economy, now the Economy may not be the only result but I feel that it is one of the biggest ones. That is why I the Bossier-Shreveport MudBugs have ceased operatoins at least to my understanding. As I said previously as a fan with no job and limited potential in this economy I don't see much I can do to help Minor League Hockey but I definetly would if I could and that is why I encourage all of you no matter what type of Hockey is in your area support it the best you can becasue if you're an avid fan like me you'd rather see some hockey than none at all and be forced to go even farthe and spend more gas to see hockey. That is one of the biggest reasons I support Junior Hockey in Muskegon because if I didn't it would go away and I'd be forced to go to more Griffins games which wouldn't be a problem if gas wasn't so expensive. So in all that rambling my message is the Economy has done a number on our sport and if you want to save it support it in any way you can.