Mayfield at number 24

[newfy 695]

Murphy or Mayfield is a crapshoot for me but I can understand your choice there.However, Musil is huge, smart, strong, and has way more offense than Mayfield. If he's the best available at the Wings pick I definitely want him ahead of Mayfield. Brodin.. Brodin is interesting. He's a 17 year old d-man that anchored a SEL championship team.. on the defensive side on the puck. Will need to bulk up, but Lidstrom-style D zone play? Hmmm.

I just can't see a scenario that leaves us with multiple options less desirable than Mayfield. Mayfield is either very late first (depending on which d-men are left at that point and team needs), or early-mid 2nd, just because of the looks of things.

Musil had high expectations this season that he didnt meet, hes fallen quickly in the rankings. He is a poor skater as well which scares me off of him. He projects to be a shut down type defender with enxt to no offense.

Mayfield is meaner than him, a MUCH better skater and while his offense is questioned.. He has played on an god awful team in the USHL the last few years. Guys who fall that far over the course of a draft year really frighten me, especially when he had no serious injury or something a la Pulkkinen.

They both project to be shut down guys with a bit of offense but Mayfield to me seems to have a better toolbox for it. Hes bigger and tougher as well as a better skater. He is also credited as being the hardest to beat one on one.

Yeah Brodin to me is an odd player and I dont really know what to think of him or Klefbom to be honest.

[Doc Holliday 1,888]

Well it certainly seems that there is a bias when this thread is full of people saying he is a mid second round pick and that we should take Khokhlachev over him.

There were multiple other players listed that Konnan wanted over him. You simply picked that one player to talk about.

[LeftWinger 5,153]

Interesting that both of those have Joseph Morrow falling to Detroit at 24. I'd like that. Good offense, and while he's not tall, 197 lbs at 6' at his age is ******* bulky as hell. He's gonna be one stocky dude when he's fully grown. Suppose he has another inch.. 6' or 6'1", 215-220 lbs? That kid is gonna be one strong dude. Also seems to be a guy that likes a good bit of the fisticuffs. Skill set could suggest a large (muscle mass), well-rounded two-way d-man with a taste for the occasional scrap.

Personally, I'd be fine with Mayfield at 24th if there's nothing else incredibly interesting still available. However, if Morrow is still available at 24th I'd take him ahead of Mayfield in a heartbeat.

If Morrow makes it to 24 and Holland actually drafts him, first I will be like then I will be like then I will be like then I will be like

[Datsyerberger 279]

If Morrow makes it to 24 and Holland actually drafts him, first I will be like then I will be like then I will be like then I will be like

Indeed. Though honestly I feel that way about almost every defender in the ISS top 30 as well.

[WorkingOvertime 536]

Don't forget about Lashoff, but your right.

The Wings have nothing remotely close to a defensive D man besides Lashoff, actually, the Wings only have 3 D men in the system that even really have a shot to even be a factor in the NHL.

Hope Kenny takes Mayfield if he is there when the Wings pick and he goes D heavy this draft.

Lashoff seems to have the tools to be a 5-6, but not much more. Just from looking at the Wings prospects, I think it is pretty obvious that the d prospects need to be strengthened through the draft this year. Personally, I'd prefer a shut-down dman but I'd be fine with someone with an offensive upside if they are available (and play d well).

[newfy 695]

There were multiple other players listed that Konnan wanted over him. You simply picked that one player to talk about.

Yeah and the only one that is ranked higher than Mayfield is Klefbom who is not very realistic at 24 I dont think. Every other one of those guys are skilled forwards who are pretty much all unanimously ranked below Mayyfield by most, if not all that have released a mock draft.

So why again are any of those guys not being questioned at 24 when theyre notranked higher than Mayfield? Oh because theyre flashy skilled guys and there is a bias against tough players and some perception that they cant play hockey

Lashoff seems to have the tools to be a 5-6, but not much more. Just from looking at the Wings prospects, I think it is pretty obvious that the d prospects need to be strengthened through the draft this year. Personally, I'd prefer a shut-down dman but I'd be fine with someone with an offensive upside if they are available (and play d well).

Nicastro seems to be a number 5 or 6 type as well who is physical but none of these guys are high end defensive defenseman. They are no Adam Foote, Rob Blake, Schenn, Hatcher etc. Taking a high end shut down guy would do wonders for this team. Instead of having Lidstrom being the only amazing defensive defenseman on the team, a top end, stay at home defenseman would work wonders for this defense.

Luke Schenn was one of the few bright spots for Toronto this year and he is looking like he was worth that 7th overall pick for sure. Just because these type of players arent flashy, they wont get recognition but they have huge impacts.

RobScuderi was a huge reason the pens won the cup in 09 against us, he doesnt score points at all

[Shaman 713]

Yeah and the only one that is ranked higher than Mayfield is Klefbom who is not very realistic at 24 I dont think. Every other one of those guys are skilled forwards who are pretty much all unanimously ranked below Mayyfield by most, if not all that have released a mock draft.

So why again are any of those guys not being questioned at 24 when theyre notranked higher than Mayfield? Oh because theyre flashy skilled guys and there is a bias against tough players and some perception that they cant play hockey

Nicastro seems to be a number 5 or 6 type as well who is physical but none of these guys are high end defensive defenseman. They are no Adam Foote, Rob Blake, Schenn, Hatcher etc. Taking a high end shut down guy would do wonders for this team. Instead of having Lidstrom being the only amazing defensive defenseman on the team, a top end, stay at home defenseman would work wonders for this defense.

Luke Schenn was one of the few bright spots for Toronto this year and he is looking like he was worth that 7th overall pick for sure. Just because these type of players arent flashy, they wont get recognition but they have huge impacts.

RobScuderi was a huge reason the pens won the cup in 09 against us, he doesnt score points at all

Again, his skill assessment is that hes ranked in the top 30 NA Skaters, once taken in light of EU skaters he falls into the second round. I believe why Alexander Khokhlachev falls in some mock drafts is the common Russian question: Will he go to the KHL or not. Talent for talent Alexander Khokhlachev is a much better player, at USHL level has .34 pt/g where as Khokhlachev has a 1.134 pt/g in the OHL (the better league). Again the telling stat on why you love this guy so much is his PIM, he has over 300 in 100 gp, so he fights a lot. If you weren't so blinded by your want for a player that fights you might see this kid is severely - in +/- and not very offensive. If the wings are going to go after this type of D man better for them to do it in the 2nd or 3rd round, if they are going to go for a Dman in the first round it should be a first pairing not a knuckle dragger.

Edited June 13, 2011 by Shaman464

[newfy 695]

Haha thanks for proving my point. You looked at his pims and decided he was a knuckledragger and that he can only fight. I have news for you, he had a whopping 3 fights all of last season, he's hardly a scrapper

You're really showing that bias I'm talking about buddy.

You use points to compare a forward on a pretty good team to a defensive defenseman on the worst team in the ushl, good stuff.

Mayfield isn't about putting up points, he is an adam foote type player who was huge for the avs in the late 90s.

But yeah of course there's a flashy small euro ranked BEHIND him, but since he scores a bit of course he's the better prospect. There you go doc, the bias I was talking about. A guy ranked in the first by pretty much everyone is a knuckledragger because he has pims. I rest my case

Hey shaman while we're at it maybe we can package callahan and sheahan and hopefully steal kabanov away from the isles eh?

[WorkingOvertime 536]

Again, his skill assessment is that hes ranked in the top 30 NA Skaters, once taken in light of EU skaters he falls into the second round. I believe why Alexander Khokhlachev falls in some mock drafts is the common Russian question: Will he go to the KHL or not. Talent for talent Alexander Khokhlachev is a much better player, at USHL level has .34 pt/g where as Khokhlachev has a 1.134 pt/g in the OHL (the better league). Again the telling stat on why you love this guy so much is his PIM, he has over 300 in 100 gp, so he fights a lot. If you weren't so blinded by your want for a player that fights you might see this kid is severely - in +/- and not very offensive. If the wings are going to go after this type of D man better for them to do it in the 2nd or 3rd round, if they are going to go for a Dman in the first round it should be a first pairing not a knuckle dragger.

Comparing ppg between a shut-down dman and a skilled forward? This discussion is officially ridiculous.

Mayfield's USHL team didn't have a good season, so his plus minus is expected to be low. The team needs to be taken in to account in using that statistic.

The Wings are lacking top-4 dmen in the system, especially shut down dmen. If you think these players are easy to come by in the later rounds, you are incorrect.

[Shaman 713]

Haha thanks for proving my point. You looked at his pims and decided he was a knuckledragger and that he can only fight. I have news for you, he had a whopping 3 fights all of last season, he's hardly a scrapper

You're really showing that bias I'm talking about buddy.

You use points to compare a forward on a pretty good team to a defensive defenseman on the worst team in the ushl, good stuff.

Mayfield isn't about putting up points, he is an adam foote type player who was huge for the avs in the late 90s.

But yeah of course there's a flashy small euro ranked BEHIND him, but since he scores a bit of course he's the better prospect. There you go doc, the bias I was talking about. A guy ranked in the first by pretty much everyone is a knuckledragger because he has pims. I rest my case

Hey shaman while we're at it maybe we can package callahan and sheahan and hopefully steal kabanov away from the isles eh?

Well if he only has 3 fights last season than hes a liability on the ice for taking penalties because he had 145 penalties minutes last season, more than all of the Wings' top four combined. A good shut down D man usually makes clean plays that stop opposing players from getting scoring chances, a big body takes penalties when hes beaten and cant make a play. Obviously I expect a shut down D man on the wings to be able to make smart plays and not get put into the box, especially if hes as good as you think he is and isnt just bottom pairing fodder. But wait in your OP you said:

2) A mean streak - Compares himself to Pronger, imagine the wings with a 6'4 defenseman who actually uses it all to punish his opposition. There are no real high end prospects in the wings system who are real bruisers. Smith an Sheahan could be but they look to be more complimentary physical guys, Mayfield is the real deal.

So it seems you expect him to be a fighter, or at least a guy whose going to go out of his way to make a hit. WAIT! Turns out its 2011 and not 1991, turns out the game has changed and that the D men with good vision and ability to play the puck are now king. Turns out there are new rules, and that the league is cracking down the the "real bruisers". Oh and any player that compares himself to Pronger has no place in the Wings system, but lets review why:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bb_fmWpcbag

(Attempted Kneeing of Yzerman)

(hit on Homer)

Do you really want someone who wants to be like him on our team? I hate to break it to you, but the Wings turns out are a classy organization and don't seem to like to have players who are jackasses and play to injury or destroy that classy image (See Avery, Sean).

Edited June 13, 2011 by Shaman464

[Konnan511 1,736]

Comparing ppg between a shut-down dman and a skilled forward? This discussion is officially ridiculous.

Mayfield's USHL team didn't have a good season, so his plus minus is expected to be low. The team needs to be taken in to account in using that statistic.

The Wings are lacking top-4 dmen in the system, especially shut down dmen. If you think these players are easy to come by in the later rounds, you are incorrect.

His plus minus did suck and you do have to take into consideration his team. So out of the regular 7 DMen, Mayfield finished 2nd to last in plus/minus of all defensemen. On the other hand, Wing's prospect Marshall finished first on his team in +/- (twice as much as the nearest DMan) and 4th among DMan in the entire league. Marshall is 5'9" and 170. I'd take Marshall over Mayfield, size be damned. Both are Americans so no one can use a nationality bias against me.

So I agree +/- is misleading, but it's useful when comparing it to players on the same team who play against the exact same teams. One player has the second lowest on their team and the other has the best on their team.

Also, the players are only a couple months apart, while Marshall was only in his first season in the USHL while Mayfield was in his 2nd season in the USHL.

[WorkingOvertime 536]

His plus minus did suck and you do have to take into consideration his team. So out of the regular 7 DMen, Mayfield finished 2nd to last in plus/minus of all defensemen. On the other hand, Wing's prospect Marshall finished first on his team in +/- (twice as much as the nearest DMan) and 4th among DMan in the entire league. Marshall is 5'9" and 170. I'd take Marshall over Mayfield, size be damned. Both are Americans so no one can use a nationality bias against me.

So I agree +/- is misleading, but it's useful when comparing it to players on the same team who play against the exact same teams. One player has the second lowest on their team and the other has the best on their team.

Also, the players are only a couple months apart, while Marshall was only in his first season in the USHL while Mayfield was in his 2nd season in the USHL.

I honestly can't speak to Mayfield's defense outside of the scouting reports. Assuming the reports are true, he is a great shut-down dman.

Bringing up Marshall does more to prove my point. The Wings don't have a shut-down dman in their system that projects to be top-4.

[WorkingOvertime 536]

Well if he only has 3 fights last season than hes a liability on the ice for taking penalties because he had 145 penalties minutes last season, more than all of the Wings' top four combined. A good shut down D man usually makes clean plays that stop opposing players from getting scoring chances, a big body takes penalties when hes beaten and cant make a play. Obviously I expect a shut down D man on the wings to be able to make smart plays and not get put into the box, especially if hes as good as you think he is and isnt just bottom pairing fodder. But wait in your OP you said:

So it seems you expect him to be a fighter, or at least a guy whose going to go out of his way to make a hit. WAIT! Turns out its 2011 and not 1991, turns out the game has changed and that the D men with good vision and ability to play the puck are now king. Turns out there are new rules, and that the league is cracking down the the "real bruisers". Oh and any player that compares himself to Pronger has no place in the Wings system, but lets review why:

Do you really want someone who wants to be like him on our team? I hate to break it to you, but the Wings turns out are a classy organization and don't seem to like to have players who are jackasses and play to injury or destroy that classy image (See Avery, Sean).

If you look at the box-scores for the games, you will see that a lot of the penalties weren't two minute penalties, as there are additional minutes for fighting in the last five minutes. Also, if you look at the box-scores for the games you will see that there are a lot of penalties in general. With that said, he does/did take some really bad penalties (kneeing, unsportsmanlike, etc.). However, he is committed to play college hockey next year, so I'm sure that problem will be addressed.

Defensemen who score a lot of points may get the majority of attention these days, but that doesn't mean shut-down defenders are irrelevant. You need a solid shut-down guy to cover for the high-scoring defensemen most of the time. These guys don't get all of the attention, but that doesn't make them less valuable.

If Mayfield becomes as good as Pronger in his prime, than we should pick him 11 out of 10 times. There is no evidence that Mayfield is disliked in the locker-room or has an attitude, even though he plays on the edge. Please don't speak to a player's character without doing the research. The kid wants to play great defense and be physical- who else would he choose to look up to while he was growing up? In the 'new NHL' Pronger would be suspended for those hits and I think Mayfield would want to play instead of being constantly suspended. In fact, I think this quote probably summarizes why he plays how he does in the USHL, and that he is liked by him teammates.

“For them to cheap shot Mayfield,” we had to step up,” Paulides said.

Carr wasn’t surprised.

“We preach to be physical, be a family, to stand up for one another,” Carr said.

Edited June 13, 2011 by WorkingOvertime

[newfy 695]

His plus minus did suck and you do have to take into consideration his team. So out of the regular 7 DMen, Mayfield finished 2nd to last in plus/minus of all defensemen. On the other hand, Wing's prospect Marshall finished first on his team in +/- (twice as much as the nearest DMan) and 4th among DMan in the entire league. Marshall is 5'9" and 170. I'd take Marshall over Mayfield, size be damned. Both are Americans so no one can use a nationality bias against me.

So I agree +/- is misleading, but it's useful when comparing it to players on the same team who play against the exact same teams. One player has the second lowest on their team and the other has the best on their team.

Also, the players are only a couple months apart, while Marshall was only in his first season in the USHL while Mayfield was in his 2nd season in the USHL.

Well than youre a complete Homer if you would take Marshall. Ever think that maybe Mayfield is always out there in tough minutes, againdst top players, while Marshall in his rookie year might be getting sheltered minutes on a much better team.

Rafalski had a better plus minus than Lidstrom, I'd take him over Lidstrom, size be damned. See how dumb that sounds?

[newfy 695]

Well if he only has 3 fights last season than hes a liability on the ice for taking penalties because he had 145 penalties minutes last season, more than all of the Wings' top four combined. A good shut down D man usually makes clean plays that stop opposing players from getting scoring chances, a big body takes penalties when hes beaten and cant make a play. Obviously I expect a shut down D man on the wings to be able to make smart plays and not get put into the box, especially if hes as good as you think he is and isnt just bottom pairing fodder. But wait in your OP you said:

So it seems you expect him to be a fighter, or at least a guy whose going to go out of his way to make a hit. WAIT! Turns out its 2011 and not 1991, turns out the game has changed and that the D men with good vision and ability to play the puck are now king. Turns out there are new rules, and that the league is cracking down the the "real bruisers". Oh and any player that compares himself to Pronger has no place in the Wings system, but lets review why:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bb_fmWpcbag

(Attempted Kneeing of Yzerman)

(hit on Homer)

Do you really want someone who wants to be like him on our team? I hate to break it to you, but the Wings turns out are a classy organization and don't seem to like to have players who are jackasses and play to injury or destroy that classy image (See Avery, Sean).

Well there you go again, assuming because he plays a physical that he has no ability to play the ouck. Yeah theres no bias at all.

Pronger is theonly defenseman to win the Hart trophy in the last 30 years, if you wouldn't take him on a team you are clueless.

And yeah the wings definitely wouldn't go after players who aren't classy You know this is only the team who recently drafted Callahan and compare him to Matt Cooke and Carcillo, employed Maltby, signed Hatcher, played Brad May, Chelios, Dallas Drake, traded for Ulf Samuellson etc. You really think they care about class on the ice? The only thing they care about is winning games and if a dirty player can help them do it they will sign them. Avery was a locker room cancer, thats why he left.

Just because a guy plays Prongers style doesn't mean hes a jackass like him off the ice. Yeah he is a guy who makes huge hits all over the ice, guess what.. hitting is allowed.

So basically what it boils down too is you dont like him because you think hes a knuckle dragger since he plays physical, and would rather have a 5'10 guy who is rated lower than him. Cool, give your self a pat on the back, you get a gold star for proving my point that there is a bias against tough players.

[Konnan511 1,736]

Well than youre a complete Homer if you would take Marshall. Ever think that maybe Mayfield is always out there in tough minutes, againdst top players, while Marshall in his rookie year might be getting sheltered minutes on a much better team.

Rafalski had a better plus minus than Lidstrom, I'd take him over Lidstrom, size be damned. See how dumb that sounds?

Except Lidstrom had more points and finished second in points on the team and was only like +10 away from the highest +/- on the team.

Marshall is the same age, played in every position (PP/PK) and finished with nearly double the points of Mayfield and nearly +40 higher than Mayfield. Mayfield was nearly +25 away from the highest DMan +/- on his team while Marshall had twice of high of a +/- as the nearest DMan on his team. How is that being a homer saying that I'd rather have Marshall when his numbers were so outstanding in only his first year and completely dwarfed the terrible numbers of Mayfiled?

I'm not opposed to Mayfield, I just think there are a handful of players I'd pick before him.

[Shaman 713]

Well there you go again, assuming because he plays a physical that he has no ability to play the ouck. Yeah theres no bias at all.

Pronger is theonly defenseman to win the Hart trophy in the last 30 years, if you wouldn't take him on a team you are clueless.

And yeah the wings definitely wouldn't go after players who aren't classy You know this is only the team who recently drafted Callahan and compare him to Matt Cooke and Carcillo, employed Maltby, signed Hatcher, played Brad May, Chelios, Dallas Drake, traded for Ulf Samuellson etc. You really think they care about class on the ice? The only thing they care about is winning games and if a dirty player can help them do it they will sign them. Avery was a locker room cancer, thats why he left.

Just because a guy plays Prongers style doesn't mean hes a jackass like him off the ice. Yeah he is a guy who makes huge hits all over the ice, guess what.. hitting is allowed.

So basically what it boils down too is you dont like him because you think hes a knuckle dragger since he plays physical, and would rather have a 5'10 guy who is rated lower than him. Cool, give your self a pat on the back, you get a gold star for proving my point that there is a bias against tough players.

Nice straw man

I have said I would love to have him, but there are better players to be had at 24th

[newfy 695]

Nice straw man

I have said I would love to have him, but there are better players to be had at 24th

Well your exact words were "do you really want a jackass like that on our team?", sure sounsd like you dont want him because of the style of game he plays.

You also made a bulls*** comment saying the wings only sign classy players, which is a strawman in itself.

Except Lidstrom had more points and finished second in points on the team and was only like +10 away from the highest +/- on the team.

Marshall is the same age, played in every position (PP/PK) and finished with nearly double the points of Mayfield and nearly +40 higher than Mayfield. Mayfield was nearly +25 away from the highest DMan +/- on his team while Marshall had twice of high of a +/- as the nearest DMan on his team. How is that being a homer saying that I'd rather have Marshall when his numbers were so outstanding in only his first year and completely dwarfed the terrible numbers of Mayfiled?

I'm not opposed to Mayfield, I just think there are a handful of players I'd pick before him.

Because stats in the USHL dont project to the NHL at all. You have to project players, and sayign you would rather have Marshall, the last pick we made in last years draft over a guy who is ranked to go in the 20s of this years first round is ridiculous.

I guess if you know nothing about scouting and projecting to the NHL than it would make sense to say you would rather have Marshall

[LeftWinger 5,153]

Do you really want someone who wants to be like him on our team? I hate to break it to you, but the Wings turns out are a classy organization and don't seem to like to have players who are jackasses and play to injury or destroy that classy image (See Avery, Sean).

Ya, they'd never have someone like that on this team!

....oops..... My point is, everyone makes boneheaded plays that sometimes result in injuries (even though some of them are pre-meditated and not just a momentary brain fart.) If Pronger's contract wasn't so idiotic, I am sure Holland would love to have him on this team, as would most of the Red Wings nation! And look how much we took a liking to Chelios...

I am sure when he said that he models his game after Chris Pronger, he didn't mean he likes to go around injuring players.

[newfy 695]

Ya, they'd never have someone like that on this team!

....oops..... My point is, everyone makes boneheaded plays that sometimes result in injuries (even though some of them are pre-meditated and not just a momentary brain fart.) If Pronger's contract wasn't so idiotic, I am sure Holland would love to have him on this team, as would most of the Red Wings nation! And look how much we took a liking to Chelios...

I am sure when he said that he models his game after Chris Pronger, he didn't mean he likes to go around injuring players.

Dont forget about when Fischer decided to cross check whoever that was on Carolina in the face in the finals.

Wings fans love to think that because the wings treat their players with class, that they only want classy players on the ice. Haha they need a wake up call

[Konnan511 1,736]

Well your exact words were "do you really want a jackass like that on our team?", sure sounsd like you dont want him because of the style of game he plays.

You also made a bulls*** comment saying the wings only sign classy players, which is a strawman in itself.

Because stats in the USHL dont project to the NHL at all. You have to project players, and sayign you would rather have Marshall, the last pick we made in last years draft over a guy who is ranked to go in the 20s of this years first round is ridiculous.

I guess if you know nothing about scouting and projecting to the NHL than it would make sense to say you would rather have Marshall

Well, besides the underlying condescending remarks, I'd still take Marshall. Who cares where a player is drafted? Pulu was drafted 4th round and I'd take him over some of the first round, a handful of the second round, and most of the third round picks from last year.

Zata, Datsyuk, Martin St. Louis were all suppose to be fringe or "bad" players and I'm sure 99% of the teams that didn't drafting them are kicking themselves for not drafting them in the first round. Look at 2009 pick Anton Klementyev, he was taken in the fifth round (played for Russia at the WC last year) and I'd take him over a handful of players in that years first round.

Scouting reports can say whatever they want, but watching players actually play is a lot more informative than a website or piece of paper. So keep being condescending and defensive over Mayfield, whom I said I'd gladly take in the second round because I think there are better players at the 24th spot than him, and I'll continue to proclaim who i would like the Wings to choose.

[LeftWinger 5,153]

I am not agreeing or disagreeing with either of you, but here is a little snipit from the Saskatoon Blades history concerning some...ahem, hot prospects....

1989: The Cup that almost was

by Tom Eremondi

of StarPhoenix Creative Services

After 40 years of solid, hard working hockey, Blades fan have many memories. One of the ones that probably stands out most in people's minds, though, is the time the Saskatoon Blades came close to winning it all.

That's right. In 1989, the Blades went all the way to the final game of the Memorial Cup, the pinnacle of top tier junior hockey in Canada. They lost in overtime to the Swift Current Broncos, a team laden with what were then some of junior hockey's brightest prospects - Sheldon Kennedy, Kimbi Daniels and Brian Sakic.

The Blades automatically qualified to be in the four-team tournament as host team in the just two-year old Saskatchewan Place. That didn't mean they didn't deserve to be there. With a 42-28-2 record, they were the WHL's second best team, behind the impressive 55-16-1 record of the Broncos.

"I think we had all the ingredients for a team to go that far," says Daryl Lubiniecki who served as GM at that time. "The two previous seasons we had lost out to Medicine Hat in the playoffs and they went on to win the Memorial Cup both times.

"We just about had everything that a guy would look for in a championship team, including strong goaltending," he adds, though noting that the team had lost Tim Cheveldae, Curtis Leschyshyn and Tony Twist to the NHL the previous year.

With emerging stars like Kory Kocur, Scott Scissons, Colin Bauer, Tracy Katelnikoff, Davis Struch and Jason Christie as well as the surprise goaltending of Mike Greenlay, the team played tough hockey, especially against Swift Current. It even stopped a Broncos early-season, 12-game winning streak.

Cheveldae? Sheldon Kennedy? junior hockey's brightest prospect? Emerging star Kory Kocur? Yep, all three draft picks of the Wings, Kocur was a first rounder...sheesh! OF course these aren't the only "busts" that got drafted, but it goes to show you, even when that ARE projected to be stars, sometimes they don't turn out to be!

Alexandre Daigle being a glaring example of that too!

Edited June 14, 2011 by LeftWinger

[Shaman 713]

Ya, they'd never have someone like that on this team!

....oops..... My point is, everyone makes boneheaded plays that sometimes result in injuries (even though some of them are pre-meditated and not just a momentary brain fart.) If Pronger's contract wasn't so idiotic, I am sure Holland would love to have him on this team, as would most of the Red Wings nation! And look how much we took a liking to Chelios...

I am sure when he said that he models his game after Chris Pronger, he didn't mean he likes to go around injuring players.

Difference is Pronger goes out his way to hurt people.

[LeftWinger 5,153]

Difference is Pronger goes out his way to hurt people.

Ok, and Bertuzzi didn't go out of his way? Nevermind, nobody can change your view of Pronger, much as noone can change mine of Hudler...

[Shaman 713]

Ok, and Bertuzzi didn't go out of his way? Nevermind, nobody can change your view of Pronger, much as noone can change mine of Hudler...

Look at the Moore incident, read articles about it, look at his track record, etc. Sure he wanted to hit him, and sure when he made that hit he wasn't looking to make him feel good, but it wasn't that hit that was the problem, it was the pile on after. Look at Pronger and what he did to Kessler, just as an example, he knew how sharp his skate was, and there is no way anyone can pretend that Pronger didn't know what he did would result in an injury and could easily end with a major injury. The other difference is Bert has shown remorse for hurting Moore, when was the last time Pronger apologized for anything, let alone meant it? Sure the Wings have had their fair share of players that weren't 100% clean in the past, but, never had they had someone who I really believe is so willingly reckless like Pronger is.