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San Jose Sharks

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Guest Crymson

What's not true?

We've been among the league leaders the last several seasons in injuries to important players and man games lost.

Detroit was #12 last season and #26 in 2008-2009. In 2007-2008, the Wings were in the low twenties. Does it really please you to make such absurd claims?

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i also feel the sharks got worse not better.. they lost who i felt was their best player last post season in diving setoguchi....and havlat dont worry me, everytime hes on the ice with kronner hes gonna be scared so hes no threat..but come up playoff time if we meet i still think its gonna be the healthiest team wins..

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Detroit was #12 last season and #26 in 2008-2009. In 2007-2008, the Wings were in the low twenties. Does it really please you to make such absurd claims?

Thanks for citing stats from 4 seasons ago. :lol:

How about the stuff you left out? We had more injuries than anyone in the 2009 playoffs. You and others have cited that as an excuse for losing that season to the Pens. Likewise, we had tons of injuries in 2010, which you kindly omitted from your self-righteous post. At one point, we had a farm team playing every night. Also, last year we had injury troubles with Franzen and Rafalski, which plenty of people have used as an excuse for losing to SJ. Didn't help to have Datsyuk miss half the season either.

Instead you give me stats from 2008 and the 2009 regular seasons? And you call my post absurd?

I don't see how anyone here can refuse to admit that we have lots of injury riddled players and how those same posters can then use injuries as an excuse for why we lose in the playoffs.

We need some new blood at forward. Namely in secondary scoring, and not just 3rd and 4th liners.

Edited by GMRwings1983

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I really think our problems have very little to do with age, injuries, or the roster. The Wings just lack hunger. Can't blame them...it has only been 2 years since their run of 11 playoff series in 3 seasons.

They didn't show up for half of the series against the Sharks, and yet they took it to Game 7. They lost every game by a goal. If they had just worked a little harder here and there, shown up for one of the first two games, maybe they would have won. Having said that, it is hard to bring it every night against a team that's so much bigger and more aggresive. But we did it against the Ducks in 07 and 09. No reason it can't be done again.. Plus, with all their size and physicality, Thornton and Clowe both finished the playoffs with separated shoulders.

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We had more injuries than anyone in the 2009 playoffs. You and others have cited that as an excuse for losing that season to the Pens.

Who was injured and how often do they get injured?

Likewise, we had tons of injuries in 2010, which you kindly omitted from your self-righteous post. At one point, we had a farm team playing every night.

It was a freak year and the only year the Wings had such injury problems.

Also, last year we had injury troubles with Franzen and Rafalski, which plenty of people have used as an excuse for losing to SJ. Didn't help to have Datsyuk miss half the season either.

Point being? Datsyuk isn't exactly injury prone, and Franzen played 76 games.

Rafalski is gone, btw.

Instead you give me stats from 2008 and the 2009 regular seasons? And you call my post absurd?

He cited last year as well. Makes sense to give a broader scope of stats than pick at one or two seasons like you are doing.

I don't see how anyone here can refuse to admit that we have lots of injury riddled players and how those same posters can then use injuries as an excuse for why we lose in the playoffs.

Nobody used injuries as an excuse in 2010, and in 2009 Datsyuk and Lidstrom are hardly "injury ridden." Also I know you couldn't find any way to replace them with "new blood."

We need some new blood at forward. Namely in secondary scoring, and not just 3rd and 4th liners.

Based on one player's injuries from last season and two superstars' injuries from 09. Of course.

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Thanks for citing stats from 4 seasons ago. :lol:

How about the stuff you left out? We had more injuries than anyone in the 2009 playoffs. You and others have cited that as an excuse for losing that season to the Pens. Likewise, we had tons of injuries in 2010, which you kindly omitted from your self-righteous post. At one point, we had a farm team playing every night. Also, last year we had injury troubles with Franzen and Rafalski, which plenty of people have used as an excuse for losing to SJ. Didn't help to have Datsyuk miss half the season either.

Instead you give me stats from 2008 and the 2009 regular seasons? And you call my post absurd?

I don't see how anyone here can refuse to admit that we have lots of injury riddled players and how those same posters can then use injuries as an excuse for why we lose in the playoffs.

We need some new blood at forward. Namely in secondary scoring, and not just 3rd and 4th liners.

We had more injuries in the 09 playoffs because we PLAYED MORE GAMES THAN ANY OTHER TEAM besides Pittsburgh. Do you really think a team that gets knocked out in the first or second round will have more injuries than the teams that go the distance?

Using very basic and simple logic, it is quite reasonable to assume that the teams in the cup finals will be the most beat up.

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We had more injuries in the 09 playoffs because we PLAYED MORE GAMES THAN ANY OTHER TEAM besides Pittsburgh. Do you really think a team that gets knocked out in the first or second round will have more injuries than the teams that go the distance?

Using very basic and simple logic, it is quite reasonable to assume that the teams in the cup finals will be the most beat up.

We didn't have nearly as many people hurt in any of our other Cup runs. Also, the Pens weren't riddled with injuries that year in the playoffs, despite going the distance.

In any case, the players I originally singled out were guys like Cleary, Homer and Franzen.

Edited by GMRwings1983

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Who was injured and how often do they get injured?

Instead of responding to your individual comments, I'm just going to boil it down to this.

Do you not think that our team has too many injury prone players and has suffered from injuries throughout the playoffs which hurt our chances in recent years?

I'm guessing "no" is your answer to that question, but I'll let you answer it your own way.

Oh and Crymson's post wasn't broad. He left out the 2009 playoffs and the 2010 regular season. That's when our injury bug hit us at the worst times.

Edited by GMRwings1983

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Instead of responding to your individual comments, I'm just going to boil it down to this.

Do you not think that our team has too many injury prone players and has suffered from injuries throughout the playoffs which hurt our chances in recent years?

I'll let you back up your assertion about injury prone players with some numbers.

Oh and Crymson's post wasn't broad. He left out the 2009 playoffs and the 2010 regular season. That's when our injury bug hit us at the worst times.

He went to regular season, and once again you completely glossed over the fact the 09 injuries were to superstars who don't often get injured. The 2010 regular season is an anomaly like I stated already.

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Guest Crymson

Thanks for citing stats from 4 seasons ago. :lol:

How about the stuff you left out? We had more injuries than anyone in the 2009 playoffs. You and others have cited that as an excuse for losing that season to the Pens. Likewise, we had tons of injuries in 2010, which you kindly omitted from your self-righteous post. At one point, we had a farm team playing every night. Also, last year we had injury troubles with Franzen and Rafalski, which plenty of people have used as an excuse for losing to SJ. Didn't help to have Datsyuk miss half the season either.

Instead you give me stats from 2008 and the 2009 regular seasons? And you call my post absurd?

So, the injuries to players in 2009. Does Datsyuk often get injured? Lidstrom? Hossa? With whom would you replace those players?

Of course I didn't include 2009-2010. It is blatantly obvious that we had a tremendous amount of injuries in that season. I included the three other seasons out of the last four in order to note that your claim was nonsense.

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So, the injuries to players in 2009. Does Datsyuk often get injured? Lidstrom? Hossa? With whom would you replace those players?

Of course I didn't include 2009-2010. It is blatantly obvious that we had a tremendous amount of injuries in that season. I included the three other seasons out of the last four in order to note that your claim was nonsense.

I never said we should replace Datsyuk or Lidstrom. We have to ride those guys no matter what. Same with Zetterberg or Kronwall.

However, Franzen has had many concussions and injuries over the last few years. No one can deny that. If he can't stay healthy over the course of a season again (and playoffs), I wouldn't be against moving him. I think of him as an injury prone player. Likewise, Cleary has only played 70 games once in the last 4 seasons. Homer has also only played 70 games once in the last 4 seasons. These guys won't be around forever. Bertuzzi hasn't missed much time as a Wing, but he's not getting any younger either.

Now we have made some strides with Ozzie, Modano and Rafalski being gone and us getting a little younger. But our secondary scoring still comprises of certain players who I consider to be injury prone and wouldn't mind seeing a change.

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That's interesting discussion about the source of injuries. Indeed, two seasons in a row I felt like we never were healthy. I think it can be attributed to two factors (i) our core players getting older (ii) the style we play. The second factor is the most important. We can play on par with any team in this league including those which are bigger and tougher. However, it takes a lot of passive grit from our top players (taking hits, going to the corners). That's Babcock style, that's why we are successful and that's why we need some young blood on our two first lines.

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I never said we should replace Datsyuk or Lidstrom. We have to ride those guys no matter what. Same with Zetterberg or Kronwall.

However, Franzen has had many concussions and injuries over the last few years. No one can deny that. If he can't stay healthy over the course of a season again (and playoffs), I wouldn't be against moving him. I think of him as an injury prone player. Likewise, Cleary has only played 70 games once in the last 4 seasons. Homer has also only played 70 games once in the last 4 seasons. These guys won't be around forever. Bertuzzi hasn't missed much time as a Wing, but he's not getting any younger either.

Now we have made some strides with Ozzie, Modano and Rafalski being gone and us getting a little younger. But our secondary scoring still comprises of certain players who I consider to be injury prone and wouldn't mind seeing a change.

Franzen is one of the top playoff performers in the league and you want to move him? Because in your opinion he is injury prone? Really?

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Sharks vs Red Wings. It really comes down to one factor: The Sharks are built to beat the WIngs.

That's it.

Beating the WIngs is the Sharks Stanley Cup Finals. Literally nothing else matters to the team. If the Sharks play the Wings in the playoffs this coming season and if they beat the Wings again, they will fold up and lose the next series - they simply are not ready to move to the next level.

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Franzen is one of the top playoff performers in the league and you want to move him? Because in your opinion he is injury prone? Really?

I'm just saying they should think about it if he gets more concussions or untimely injuries. Of course, it depends on what kind of deal we can get in return.

He's not unmovable like Datsyuk or Zetterberg.

Edited by GMRwings1983

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That's interesting discussion about the source of injuries. Indeed, two seasons in a row I felt like we never were healthy. I think it can be attributed to two factors (i) our core players getting older (ii) the style we play. The second factor is the most important. We can play on par with any team in this league including those which are bigger and tougher. However, it takes a lot of passive grit from our top players (taking hits, going to the corners). That's Babcock style, that's why we are successful and that's why we need some young blood on our two first lines.

i hate to make this a discussion about enforcers and toughness, but here it goes. i feel like the style we play is all skill. even our front of the net play is based on skill and not size or toughness. other teams kno that they simply cant beat us playing a skills game, so what do they do? they go out and hit, and hit, and hit, and try to out muscle us everywhere. other teams see the winged wheel on our jersey as a giant red bullseye, everyone wants to beat us. this is gonna result in injuries for us.

thats why i think commodore was a good signing, bertuzzi was a good signing, and guys like abby need to play larger roles here in the future. intimidation and physical play is an important part of the game, especially in the playoffs. im not gonna argue that we need an enforcer, thou i wont argue against it either. we need to be able to play our skill style, but still make teams think twice about landing that big one on dats or z. frankly i miss the grind line

Edited by number9

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Guest Crymson

Sharks vs Red Wings. It really comes down to one factor: The Sharks are built to beat the WIngs.

They're built to get lucky bounces and help from the refs against the Wings? Cool story, bud.

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They're built to get lucky bounces and help from the refs against the Wings? Cool story, bud.

Stop making excuses. It makes us Wings fans sound like some pathetic losers.

Sharks beat us both times. Plain and simple. They won 4 games in both series and we didn't. We had our chances to win and didn't get it done.

This whining about bounces and refs is getting old.

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Stop making excuses. It makes us Wings fans sound like some pathetic losers.

Sharks beat us both times. Plain and simple. They won 4 games in both series and we didn't. We had our chances to win and didn't get it done.

This whining about bounces and refs is getting old.

i agree with u but u have to admit that those first 2 games were very close and sj seemed to get alot of luck while the wings got none. those first 2 games anyway.

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i hate to make this a discussion about enforcers and toughness, but here it goes. i feel like the style we play is all skill. even our front of the net play is based on skill and not size or toughness. other teams kno that they simply cant beat us playing a skills game, so what do they do? they go out and hit, and hit, and hit, and try to out muscle us everywhere. other teams see the winged wheel on our jersey as a giant red bullseye, everyone wants to beat us. this is gonna result in injuries for us.

thats why i think commodore was a good signing, bertuzzi was a good signing, and guys like abby need to play larger roles here in the future. intimidation and physical play is an important part of the game, especially in the playoffs. im not gonna argue that we need an enforcer, thou i wont argue against it either. we need to be able to play our skill style, but still make teams think twice about landing that big one on dats or z. frankly i miss the grind line

If that were true, how did we win the Cup in '08 and come within one goal of winning it in '09? There is no substance to your argument. San Jose didn't beat us because they out hit us. If fact, we outhit them in several of the games.

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Stop making excuses. It makes us Wings fans sound like some pathetic losers.

Sharks beat us both times. Plain and simple. They won 4 games in both series and we didn't. We had our chances to win and didn't get it done.

This whining about bounces and refs is getting old.

So you are saying that the better team always wins in hockey? I guess if you want to believe that, it's your prerogative. Sometimes, the better team loses and it is because of bounces that go one way or another. This is true in hockey more than almost all other major sports.

San Jose and Detroit were pretty much evenly matched last year and the series could have gone either way. We lost, but IMO they did not have a superior team. And with the loss of Heatly and Setoguchi, I think that they got worse.

I prefer to not play them in 2012 because even if we beat them, it will take to much out of us.

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If that were true, how did we win the Cup in '08 and come within one goal of winning it in '09? There is no substance to your argument. San Jose didn't beat us because they out hit us. If fact, we outhit them in several of the games.

did u watch the 08 or 09 season? i kno the '08 team had chelios, drake, maltby, mccarty, and sammy. sammys not too tough, but plays more physical than a lot of the wings. the '09 team had all those players except for drake i believe. also wasnt downey on both those teams? so yeah the '08 and '09 teams had more grit and those teams were not plagued by injury.

p.s. theres a lot more to the game then hitting buddy, even in the physical department.

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