1/7 GDT : Red Wings 3 at Maple Leafs 4

[Red Wings Addict 787]

I'm surprised this thread got up to 16 pages with the Lions game on at the same time.

[WizardOfOz30 1,886]

I'm guessing the Wings are gonna be pissed about the loss tonight (and Babcock will certainly help that along) and they'll win tomorrow night.

Then again, is it true Conklin's going to be in net? I know Howie needs a rest but boy, Babcock's timing....

There's always a reason for the timing to not be right but Howard needs and deserves a break. I don't care what people say that he should and can play every game and then come out ready for the playoff run as well. It's not fair to him or the team to run him down because you have no faith in the back up goalie. Someone in management better get off their ass and find us a good back up if they don't trust the ones we do have!

[13dangledangle 965]

I would still like to know why Cleary was out there for the last two minutes instead of Flip, Bert or Hudler?

[chrisdetroit 189]

This is why I'm with you on the idea of moving Franzen as part of a package to land Perry...If Perry isn't scoring - you at least notice him out there creating havoc by getting under the skin of the oppsoing dmen, or netminder.

I hate to interrupt the bulls*** with an actual fact, but Fanzen has 8 game winning goals which leads the entire National Hockey League. Brad Richards is second with 6. 8 guys have 5. He has a +22 which is number 1 in the NHL among Right Wingers.

So explain to me again why you want to trade the most clutch player in the league.

[LeftWinger 4,962]

I hate to interrupt the bulls*** with an actual fact, but Fanzen has 8 game winning goals which leads the entire National Hockey League. Brad Richards is second with 6. 8 guys have 5. He has a +22 which is number 1 in the NHL among Right Wingers.

So explain to me again why you want to trade the most clutch player in the league.

...again, someone misinterprets the GWG stat by actually thinking the game was tied and he scored to untie it to win us the game. The GWG is nothing but the goal that you won by. Let's say the Wings were up 6-0 and Franzen scored the 7th goal. The Hawks come roaring back and score 6 goals only to fall short of the comeback, viola, that 7th goal is still considered the GWG, but it was hardly a "clutch" goal. Franzen is no more clutch than a break pedal. Most if not ALL of his 8 GWG's are of that exact variety, he scores when the Wings are already winning and the other team loses by one goal or more and Franzen's goal which was scored two periods ago, just happens to get the stat of GWG. The NHL should change the way the stat is defined. A GWG should only be a goal that a player scores to untie the game and end the end wins the game for you, not the way it is awarded now.

Again, if you or anyone can show me Franzen 8 ACTUAL GWG's that untie the game and win it for the Wings, then I will agree that he is the most clutch player in the league. But in all actuality he is not.

[haroldsnepsts 4,826]

I hate to interrupt the bulls*** with an actual fact, but Fanzen has 8 game winning goals which leads the entire National Hockey League. Brad Richards is second with 6. 8 guys have 5. He has a +22 which is number 1 in the NHL among Right Wingers.

So explain to me again why you want to trade the most clutch player in the league.

Leftwinger beat me to it.

OT goals is one thing, but gamewinners doesn't mean what it sounds like.

Edited January 8, 2012 by haroldsnepsts

[LeftWinger 4,962]

Just one last thing on GWG's. Last season Dan Cleary led the team with 8 GWG's and was only 3 behind the NHL leader with 11 for the season. Does that make Cleary one of the most 'clutch' players in the league? No. The GWG stat, the way it is tallied by the NHL right now is about as useless as the +/- stat. If not, more useless...

[Doc Holliday 1,888]

This is why I'm with you on the idea of moving Franzen as part of a package to land Perry...If Perry isn't scoring - you at least notice him out there creating havoc by getting under the skin of the oppsoing dmen, or netminder.

I think the Perry and Franzen comparisons are stupid considering we all know Perry is a much better player. And younger. And more entertaining.

[Vladifan 680]

There's always a reason for the timing to not be right but Howard needs and deserves a break. I don't care what people say that he should and can play every game and then come out ready for the playoff run as well. It's not fair to him or the team to run him down because you have no faith in the back up goalie. Someone in management better get off their ass and find us a good back up if they don't trust the ones we do have!

Agree to all of the above. I just wish Babcock had rested Howie and alternated the boyz earlier. Conklin has definitely got to get some playing time to show if he's valuable to this team or not. He has my full permission to knock my doubts and fears on their butts.

[dat's sick 1,002]

I can't believe the s*** Franzen gets on this board. Sure he can look lazy some games but he is having a ******* fantastic year and for the most part he has looked great out there.

It's like he gets all the blame whenever the Wings fail to score more goals than the other team.

Give the guy a break, he's on pace for 30+ goals and 70+ points.

And YES he is a clutch player. Goddammit you people are expecting 50+ goals, most of them being game-winners scored when the game is tied and the Wings most need a goal, from a guy earning 4 million?

We're all sad the Wings don't have a Stamkos or a .... I don't know, Kessel? Or whoever else can be relied upon to score a goal in most games, but we don't have a guy like that so just face the facts that we have to rely on depth-scoring with Franzen maybe putting up some more goals than others. Which he's doing.

[LeftWinger 4,962]

I can't believe the s*** Franzen gets on this board. Sure he can look lazy some games but he is having a ******* fantastic year and for the most part he has looked great out there.

It's like he gets all the blame whenever the Wings fail to score more goals than the other team.

Give the guy a break, he's on pace for 30+ goals and 70+ points.

And YES he is a clutch player. Goddammit you people are expecting 50+ goals, most of them being game-winners scored when the game is tied and the Wings most need a goal, from a guy earning 4 million?

We're all sad the Wings don't have a Stamkos or a .... I don't know, Kessel? Or whoever else can be relied upon to score a goal in most games, but we don't have a guy like that so just face the facts that we have to rely on depth-scoring with Franzen maybe putting up some more goals than others. Which he's doing.

and the whole point is we NEED a guy like that, Franzen is not a Sniper, if we are to acquire a Sniper, then Franzen is going to have to be in the deal. We aren't arguing if Franzen can score 30 goals, but, we want that sniper that we can rely on to score the ACTUAL game winning goal when we need it...

[dat's sick 1,002]

and the whole point is we NEED a guy like that, Franzen is not a Sniper, if we are to acquire a Sniper, then Franzen is going to have to be in the deal. We aren't arguing if Franzen can score 30 goals, but, we want that sniper that we can rely on to score the ACTUAL game winning goal when we need it...

And who do you propose we go after in this deal including Franzen?

There aren't a lot of true-snipers with clutch ability available out there. There are very, very few players that can be relied on to score 40+ goals every year in this league.

And every team wants those players. We're not getting Stamkos. We're not getting Ovechkin. We're most likely not getting Kessel.

Who? Gaborik maybe? Or Iginla? But he's getting old. Perry was mentioned, but last year might as well have been the best season he'll ever have. He's never been close to 40 goals before that.

A lot of teams would be like to have Franzen so if we traded him we could get something good, but the truth is it's ******* difficult to find reliable goalscorers.

I'd rather see us find some way of adding a 30-35 goal scoring guy without removing Franzen. 2 guys that score 30+ goals is better than 1 guy that might score 50+, imo.