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MrBest7

Message to Ken Holland...

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Lol. Suter and Parise are going to get more than $6 mill.

I would give 3 firsts for Suter and 8.5 he is probably the d-man in the league (and he is mean and nasty and would be on the ice for almost half the game) exactly what the Wings need.

He would instantly put our PP back near or on top

I never said they would be getting 6 million, I know they will be getting more then that. MrBest7 stated that on page one that we can sign them for that. I also assume you mean you would give 3 firsts for Weber, not Suter.

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So you WANT to sign a defenseman to an EXPENSIVE contract AND give up 3 extremely valuable assets in the process? In the business world we call that... stupid lol.

I collect ceramic figurines of unicorns.

Our last first rounders were Sheahan, McCollum and Smith and that would be steep but worth it.

Prior to Smith because the jury's still out on those guys our previous first rounders were Kindl, Kronwall and Fischer again steep but worth it.

It is absolutely amazing how ell we draft considering how low we pick and that we trade so many of our firsts.

Weber is arguably the best d-man in hockey, he is mean and nasty (something the Wings desperately need) and a right-handed shot (also something the Wings desperately need)

Zetterberg would love to have him on the team and to not have to play against him, Babcock would love him on the team and Howard would love it probably more than anybody else

I never said they would be getting 6 million, I know they will be getting more then that. MrBest7 stated that on page one that we can sign them for that. I also assume you mean you would give 3 firsts for Weber, not Suter.

Yes I did mean Weber not Suter, I was agreeing with what you said about assuming that Suter and Parise are guaranteed Wings at $6 mill

Our last first rounders were Sheahan, McCollum and Smith and that would be steep but worth it.

Prior to Smith because the jury's still out on those guys our previous first rounders were Kindl, Kronwall and Fischer again steep but worth it.

It is absolutely amazing how ell we draft considering how low we pick and that we trade so many of our firsts.

Weber is arguably the best d-man in hockey, he is mean and nasty (something the Wings desperately need) and a right-handed shot (also something the Wings desperately need)

Zetterberg would love to have him on the team and to not have to play against him, Babcock would love him on the team and Howard would love it probably more than anybody else

Yes I did mean Weber not Suter, I was agreeing with what you said about assuming that Suter and Parise are guaranteed Wings at $6 mill and I meant to say that Weber is arguably the best d-man in hockey. I really should read my comments before I post them. lol

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To be fair, our next 3 first round picks (more than likely pick 20+) likely will never be as good as Shea Weber. He's a top 3 defenseman in the league.

With that being said, I don't think I agree with above comments on signing him to an offer sheet. Draft picks are so unbelievably overrated it isn't even funny. There's absolutely NO guarentee those players will turn out to be anything, let alone a Norris Trophy calibre defenseman.

But again, with that being said, I understand teams not trading their first round picks like they're a bag of pucks lol.

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To be fair, our next 3 first round picks (more than likely pick 20+) likely will never be as good as Shea Weber. He's a top 3 defenseman in the league.

With that being said, I don't think I agree with above comments on signing him to an offer sheet. Draft picks are so unbelievably overrated it isn't even funny. There's absolutely NO guarentee those players will turn out to be anything, let alone a Norris Trophy calibre defenseman.

But again, with that being said, I understand teams not trading their first round picks like they're a bag of pucks lol.

The next 3 first picks overall most likely will never be as good as Weber, he is arguably the best d-man in the league

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I generally agree with you Fourth Line Grinder but for Weber it would be worth it, he is exactly what we need on our defense (he suits our needs much more than Suter does because he is mean , a right handed shot and a better hockey player than Suter). A dominant Norris Trophy defenseman is easily worth 3 lesser players which the drat choices will certainly be, Nashville would probably match the offer though

Say you have 3 average apples, each worth 25 cents....Then you see a really kick ass tasty apple valued at 50 cents (whoa that's double the value of just one of my average apples!!! it must be a helluva good apple!!!) So you trade your three average apples for that 1 awesome apple that you just had to have....You now have a great apple but you paid 75 cents for something that is worth 50 cents....That's a bad business decision and Holland doesn't make bad business decisions.

Having a Norris caliber D-man on your roster does not equal a championship

Offer sheets are dooshy.... We are classy

Weber will be UFA after next season, so why waste picks?

Also, they will match any offer....and if they didn't the contract would be inflated (another bad thing for business)

Edited by number9
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Say you have 3 average apples, each worth 25 cents....Then you see a really kick ass tasty apple valued at 50 cents (whoa that's double the value of just one of my average apples!!! it must be a helluva good apple!!!) So you trade your three average apples for that 1 awesome apple that you just had to have....You now have a great apple but you paid 75 cents for something that is worth 50 cents....That's a bad business decision and Holland doesn't make bad business decisions.

Having a Norris caliber D-man on your roster does not equal a championship

Offer sheets are dooshy.... We are classy

Weber will be UFA after next season, so why waste picks?

Also, they will match any offer....and if they didn't the contract would be inflated (another bad thing for business)

I agree with you about offer sheets but sometimes you have to make exceptions. They might not match

We need him now.

Weber probably won't be a UFA next year. i f we spend the money neccesary to get Suter and Parise (which will take a lot more than $12 mill that everyone seems to be suggesting), we won't have cap space to get Weber. I think Weber would be more of a benefit to this team than Parise AND Suter

Average apples are a dime a dozen on the free agent market so 3 of them are only 2.5 cents compared to Weber at fitty cent

Edited by Johnz96

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We need him now.

Average apples are a dime a dozen on the free agent market so 3 of them are only 2.5 cents compared to Weber at fitty cent

Now? don't turn into a maple leaf fan on me lol patience and smart decisions wins cups. Would you rather win the cup next year, or 3 times over the next 10 years?

a draft pick is an asset, not a person, average apple does not mean average player...as soon as you think of it that way you've missed the point.

Edit: Forgot to reiterate one of my previous points: Having a Norris caliber D-man on your roster does not equal a championship

Edited by number9

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Now? don't turn into a maple leaf fan on me lol patience and smart decisions wins cups. Would you rather win the cup next year, or 3 times over the next 10 years?

a draft pick is an asset, not a person, average apple does not mean average player...as soon as you think of it that way you've missed the point.

It would be great to replace the best d-man in the world with the best d-man in the world and he woud provide the right-handed shot on d we desperately need and the toughness that we also so desperately need.

We have given up a lot firsts over the years and we have still been the best team in the league over the last 2 decades (never missed the playoffs, most reg season wins, most playoff wins and most Cups). We have had only 6 first rounders in the last 15 years

It would be great to replace the best d-man in the world with the best d-man in the world and he woud provide the right-handed shot on d we desperately need and the toughness that we also so desperately need.

We have given up a lot firsts over the years and we have still been the best team in the league over the last 2 decades (never missed the playoffs, most reg season wins, most playoff wins and most Cups). We have had only 6 first rounders in the last 15 years

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Now? don't turn into a maple leaf fan on me lol patience and smart decisions wins cups. Would you rather win the cup next year, or 3 times over the next 10 years?

a draft pick is an asset, not a person, average apple does not mean average player...as soon as you think of it that way you've missed the point.

Edit: Forgot to reiterate one of my previous points: Having a Norris caliber D-man on your roster does not equal a championship

It equaled 4 for us.

All this is moot I just found out that it would take 5 first rounders on an 8.5 offer sheet and that is too steep even for Weber, but I don't think getting Suter and Parise will make us much better than last year and we will still be pushed around and easy to play against and our PP won't be any better, Sure Parise will help but Suter isn't as good as Nick was and we still don't have a right-handed shot from the point for the PP.

In which case I would hold off on spending big bucks on UFAs try to get Schultz and give the youngsters a lot of time evaluate our needs from there and try to make a deadline deal and hopefully be a player in next years UFA market where there should be some players that suit our specific needs

Edited by Johnz96

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It would be great to replace the best d-man in the world with the best d-man in the world and he woud provide the right-handed shot on d we desperately need and the toughness that we also so desperately need.

We have given up a lot firsts over the years and we have still been the best team in the league over the last 2 decades (never missed the playoffs, most reg season wins, most playoff wins and most Cups). We have had only 6 first rounders in the last 15 years

First, do not compare Weber to Lidstrom, Weber is not and never will be a Lidstrom.

Second, Weber is a great D-man but I'm far from convinced he is the best in the world. Suter actually plays better D than Weber does....and his defense partner is Suter...if Lebda's defense partner was Suter he would look pretty good too lol. Don't get me wrong Weber is great, but he's benefited a lot from having one of the most underrated D-men next to him for his whole career. He's not the best in the world.

Third, we gave up those picks in sensible transactions. We never threw 8.5 mill and 3 first rounders at anyone. Smart transactions is one of the reasons we have been able to dominate over the last 2 decades. Not just drafting.

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It equaled 4 for us.

All this is mute I just found out that it would take 5 first rounders on an 8.5 offer sheet and that is too steep even for Weber, but I don't think getting Suter and Parise will make us much better than last year and we will still be pushed around and easy to play against and our PP won't be any better, Sure Parise will help but Suter isn't as good as Nick was and we still don't have a right-handed shot from the point for the PP.

In which case I would hold off on spending big bucks on UFAs try to get Schultz and give the youngsters a lot of time evaluate our needs from there and try to make a deadline deal and hopefully be a player in next years UFA market where there should be some players that suit our specific needs

No, having a great TEAM equaled 4 for us.

Are we talking about a different team? We did fantastic last year (most consecutive home wins and all that jazz) just had an early playoff exit....it happens man....yes even to the best of us. And guess what? Yeah we don't have a Lidstrom anymore....but no other team has one either!!! lol Suter and Parise would be HUGEEEE for this already great team.

Edited by number9

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First, do not compare Weber to Lidstrom, Weber is not and never will be a Lidstrom.

Second, Weber is a great D-man but I'm far from convinced he is the best in the world. Suter actually plays better D than Weber does....and his defense partner is Suter...if Lebda's defense partner was Suter he would look pretty good too lol. Don't get me wrong Weber is great, but he's benefited a lot from having one of the most underrated D-men next to him for his whole career. He's not the best in the world.

Third, we gave up those picks in sensible transactions. We never threw 8.5 mill and 3 first rounders at anyone. Smart transactions is one of the reasons we have been able to dominate over the last 2 decades. Not just drafting.

We gave up a first, Fleischman and a fourth for Lang.

I think Suter benefited more from Weber than the other way around.

I know Weber will never be a Lidstrom but he is arguably the best there is now

agree, I do think we have a great team, if Howard payed as good as he did in the first half of the season and/or Rinne wasn't as hot as he was against us and with a little puck luck the Wings could still be playing hockey right now

Edited by Johnz96

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The criteria for RFA draft pick compensation in 2011-12 is as follows:

•$1,034,249 annual cap hit or less: No compensation

•$1,034,249 — $1,567,043: Third-round pick

•$1,567,043 — $3,134,088: Second-round pick

•$3,134,088 — $4,701,131: First and third-round pick

•$4,701,131 — $6,268,175: First, second and third-round pick

•$6,268,175 — $7,835,219: Two first-round picks, a second and third

•$7,835,219 and higher: Four first-round picks

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We gave up a first, Fleischman and a fourth for Lang.

I think Suter benefited more from Weber than the other way around.

I know Weber will never be a Lidstrom but he is arguably the best there is now

At that time Lang was the leading scorer in the NHL LOL. F-man was young then, a projected low quality 2nd line guy, and we knew he had chronic health issues. Giving up him, a first, and a fourth is more than reasonable for a more than point per game player. 3 firsts for Lang....now that would have been unreasonable.

Weber is better than Suter in the O zone and Suter is better than Weber in the D zone....they both benefit

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:rotflmao:

in all seriousness though, Weber will sign with Nashville cause no team in the cap era not named the Leafs wants to deal away 3 years of 1st rounders. Suter however already stated he will be going on the FA market. Nashville will return to obscurity next year, but hey, they still have Fisher and Underwood...

where have you heard that suter said he will be going on the FA market

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Weber isn't worth it this offseason

I strongly disagree... Weber is Nick Lidstrom/Scott Stevens/Stu Grimson in one player.

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I strongly disagree... Weber is Nick Lidstrom/Scott Stevens/Stu Grimson in one player.

You're either trolling or you think things of Weber that even the most ardent Predators homer would not agree with.

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I strongly disagree... Weber is Nick Lidstrom/Scott Stevens/Stu Grimson in one player.

Even comparing Weber to Lidstrom (let alone saying he is a Lidstrom/Lidstrom plus) should deeply offend you as not only a wings fan, but hockey fan in general. That's like saying Getzlaf is the next Gordie Howe. It's so stupid it's offensive. For crying out loud, the guy plays one all-star game with Lidstrom as his partner and all of the sudden people wanna throw the bank at him....Doughty has more sense and skill then Weber does and nobodies talkin about tradin the farm for him....and Doughty can't hold a flame to Lidstrom either....the only players that should ever be in the same conversation as Nick are Orr and Bourque, That's it.

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Even comparing Weber to Lidstrom (let alone saying he is a Lidstrom/Lidstrom plus) should deeply offend you as not only a wings fan, but hockey fan in general. That's like saying Getzlaf is the next Gordie Howe. It's so stupid it's offensive. For crying out loud, the guy plays one all-star game with Lidstrom as his partner and all of the sudden people wanna throw the bank at him....Doughty has more sense and skill then Weber does and nobodies talkin about tradin the farm for him....and Doughty can't hold a flame to Lidstrom either....the only players that should ever be in the same conversation as Nick are Orr and Bourque, That's it.

He didn't say the best of Lidstrom, Stevens and Grimson. I think it's a fair analogy if you mix those 3 players DNA you would get someone like Weber. Grimson had pugilistic abilities and a hard shot but not much skill or hockey sense detracting from the skill and hockey sense Lidstrom's and Stevens' DNA brings to the mix.

Doughty unfortunately is signed till 2019 and I would also much rather have him than Suter as he is more physical and shoots right but Weber would be ideal for the Wings because he can also protect our stars and our crease

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Now? don't turn into a maple leaf fan on me lol patience and smart decisions wins cups. Would you rather win the cup next year, or 3 times over the next 10 years?

a draft pick is an asset, not a person, average apple does not mean average player...as soon as you think of it that way you've missed the point.

Edit: Forgot to reiterate one of my previous points: Having a Norris caliber D-man on your roster does not equal a championship

I think we all know Holland won't do the offer sheet. That being said is Weber worth 4 first round picks? We can look at what the Wings drafted in the past for an idea on how much it would cost the Wings but even that would not be exact as nobody knows what young players will be available in the next 4 drafts in that draft position. Plus would Nashville pick the same players the Wings would pick?...not likely. Then those players would likely take 3 to 5 years to make it to the NHL (if they even make it). 4 players that are unknown for 1 that you know is not only an NHL player but arguably the best d-man in the world.. Here are some stats on NHL drafting in the 1st round:

Success rate of first-round draft picks

To define whether a player "makes it," let's set the threshold at 200 NHL games. We'll call them "career players."

•Of the 494 career players drafted in the 1990s, 160 were selected in the first round.

•Of those 160 career players, over half have played more than 500 NHL games.

•Among the older players (those drafted from 1990 to 1994), six first-round picks have made it to 1,000 games. Another couple of dozen are still active and within reach of 1,000.

•Based on the 1990s sample, a first-round draft pick has a 63 percent chance of being a career player.

Results can vary widely from year to year:

•The 1993 NHL Draft produced 22 career players from 26 first-round picks.

•In 1999, less than half of the first-round selections went on to become career players (12 out of 28).

So 63% chance of being an NHL player but a lot less of being a star or super star player and those stats are for all first round picks (including top 10's) and not just late first rounders which is where the Wings would likely pick.

With all that being said, i think it would be worth the picks if the Wings got him long term. A bird in hand is worth 4 in the bush

If we were to get Weber this year and with Smith a tough customer himself whose goal is to add some muscle over the summer), add Iginla either at the trade deadline or next year as a UFA and add Svitov (considered one of the best defensive forwards in the KHL who is great on faceoffs and even meaner and nastier than Weber) we would go from being THE smallest, least physical team in the league to being one of the biggest, THE toughest and hardest to play against while adding to our already impressive skill level.

(Beauchemin is the guy that knocked out Kopecky for the rest of the season with one punch) Edited by Johnz96

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why would there be a stupid limit on how much media we add to a post WTF!

Edited by Johnz96

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He didn't say the best of Lidstrom, Stevens and Grimson. I think it's a fair analogy if you mix those 3 players DNA you would get someone like Weber. Grimson had pugilistic abilities and a hard shot but not much skill or hockey sense detracting from the skill and hockey sense Lidstrom's and Stevens' DNA brings to the mix.

Doughty unfortunately is signed till 2019 and I would also much rather have him than Suter as he is more physical and shoots right but Weber would be ideal for the Wings because he can also protect our stars and our crease

....Come on guy, do I really need to tell you to go back and read the comment again?We all know what he was saying.... A fair analogy would have been Souray/Stuart/Boyle/Carkner. By your logic we should be calling Smith a Konstantinov/Lidstrom/Chelios combo cause he can hit, has offensive sense, and a little mean streak....Even though we all know Smith is not comparable to either of those 3 players or the skills they possessed.

I think we all know Holland won't do the offer sheet. That being said is Weber worth 4 first round picks? We can look at what the Wings drafted in the past for an idea on how much it would cost the Wings but even that would not be exact as nobody knows what young players will be available in the next 4 drafts in that draft position. Plus would Nashville pick the same players the Wings would pick?...not likely. Then those players would likely take 3 to 5 years to make it to the NHL (if they even make it). 4 players that are unknown for 1 that you know is not only an NHL player but arguably the best d-man in the world.. Here are some stats on NHL drafting in the 1st round:

Success rate of first-round draft picks

To define whether a player "makes it," let's set the threshold at 200 NHL games. We'll call them "career players."

•Of the 494 career players drafted in the 1990s, 160 were selected in the first round.

•Of those 160 career players, over half have played more than 500 NHL games.

•Among the older players (those drafted from 1990 to 1994), six first-round picks have made it to 1,000 games. Another couple of dozen are still active and within reach of 1,000.

•Based on the 1990s sample, a first-round draft pick has a 63 percent chance of being a career player.

Results can vary widely from year to year:

•The 1993 NHL Draft produced 22 career players from 26 first-round picks.

•In 1999, less than half of the first-round selections went on to become career players (12 out of 28).

So 63% chance of being an NHL player but a lot less of being a star or super star player and those stats are for all first round picks (including top 10's) and not just late first rounders which is where the Wings would likely pick.

With all that being said, i think it would be worth the picks if the Wings got him long term. A bird in hand is worth 4 in the bush

If we were to get Weber this year and with Smith a tough customer himself whose goal is to add some muscle over the summer), add Iginla either at the trade deadline or next year as a UFA and add Svitov (considered one of the best defensive forwards in the KHL who is great on faceoffs and even meaner and nastier than Weber) we would go from being THE smallest, least physical team in the league to being one of the biggest, THE toughest and hardest to play against while adding to our already impressive skill level.

"a draft pick is an asset, not a person, average apple does not mean average player...as soon as you think of it that way you've missed the point."

...Did you not read before responding? In one ear and out the other? lol

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....Come on guy, do I really need to tell you to go back and read the comment again?We all know what he was saying.... A fair analogy would have been Souray/Stuart/Boyle/Carkner. By your logic we should be calling Smith a Konstantinov/Lidstrom/Chelios combo cause he can hit, has offensive sense, and a little mean streak....Even though we all know Smith is not comparable to either of those 3 players or the skills they possessed.

"a draft pick is an asset, not a person, average apple does not mean average player...as soon as you think of it that way you've missed the point."

...Did you not read before responding? In one ear and out the other? lol

I disagree with you there, it's the stars that are the difference makers average players are a dime a dozen readily available every year as free agents.

I am hoping (and believe he has the skills) that Smith develops into a Norris trophy candidate d-man

I know that obviously Holland won't do what I suggested and I know that if I was the GM and it was my goal to bring in Weber, Iginla and Svitov that the likelihood of accomplishing specifically that would be next to impossible, but if we could and did, I think we would have the best team in the league for the next 4 or 5 years which still wouldn't guarantee a Cup in that time, but there are going to be so many other UFAs next year that meet our needs for size and toughness while also providing skill that I woudn't blow our wad on Suter AND Parise and especially not Semin although I think he would be a 40+ goal scorer on the Wings but he woud also piss Babcock , Howard and our fan base off a lot but that didn't stop him from playing Bert a lot, or an obviously ineffective and injured Hossa in the SCF in 09.

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I disagree with you there, it's the stars that are the difference makers average players are a dime a dozen readily available every year as free agents.

I am hoping (and believe he has the skills) that Smith develops into a Norris trophy candidate d-man

I know that obviously Holland won't do what I suggested and I know that if I was the GM and it was my goal to bring in Weber, Iginla and Svitov that the likelihood of accomplishing specifically that would be next to impossible, but if we could and did, I think we would have the best team in the league for the next 4 or 5 years which still wouldn't guarantee a Cup in that time, but there are going to be so many other UFAs next year that meet our needs for size and toughness while also providing skill that I woudn't blow our wad on Suter AND Parise and especially not Semin although I think he would be a 40+ goal scorer on the Wings but he woud also piss Babcock , Howard and our fan base off a lot but that didn't stop him from playing Bert a lot, or an obviously ineffective and injured Hossa in the SCF in 09.

UH OH somebody never watched miracle lol players don't win cups dude, teams do.....dime a dozen eh? Helms? Kronwalls? Holmstroms? Filppulas? Fischers? Drapers? Howards? Franzens? (the list goes on and on and on) Why didn't you tell anyone we can just get one of those guys anywhere??? Somebody go tell Holland we've been doing it wrong the whole time lol.

I don't think you understood my point about business assets though.....I really don't wanna explain the fundamentals of business, so long story short: you don't pay a lot for a little. If you were a GM and you were to sign Weber for 8.5 million AND give up 3 first round picks, you would probably be fired on the spot....and your talking about four picks sir! Four!

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