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Hockeytown0001

2/1 GDT : Blues 3 at Red Wings 5 (Z with Hat Trick)

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A guy? That's Wyshynski (Puck Daddy). He's a well known and respected hockey writer. I would have thought you'd have known that. And that "guy" happens to also not think Backes is dirty, and actually stated he was the polar opposite of the type of player you think he is. Which is why I posted it. My opinion was apparently tossed aside because I am a Blues fan...but you guys will have to find another reason to toss out Wyshynski's opinion, since he is a Devil's fan. I'm sure you'll come up with something.

I can understand not liking Backes from a competitive standpoint. He plays hard, he hits hard, he's physical, he puts up decent offensive numbers and he is the captain of a division rival. I respect that completely. What I find ridiculous is the constant flow of comments saying that Backes is a prick, is dirty, or whatever...and using that misinformed opinion to try and justify the horrible call against him the other night.

I know who Wyshynski is. I wouldn't rank him quite as high and respected as you apparently do. He's basically a blogger who consolidates things he's read elsewhere and chimes in his two cents, but my apologies for referring to him as "a guy" and not "The Great and Respected Blogger..." He's also been a pretty clear fan of Backes for a while now. My point is you digging up some random article on yahoo where he mentions Backes isn't dirty as if that's some irrefutable evidence.

I've made no claims about Backes hit the other night. That was a terrible call. That doesn't change my opinion that Backes is a prick and often plays at and sometimes over the line. So like I said originally, when he gets a 5 minute major he didn't deserve for that hit, I certainly don't feel too bad for him. It's not the first time Backes has thrown that type of hit. This one was clean but he's had a few that are borderline late on a defenseman who's made a pass up ice. He comes east west and drills them after the puck is gone and they're looking up ice at the play.

That's not a misinformed opinion by the way, it's just one you don't agree with.

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I know who Wyshynski is. I wouldn't rank him quite as high and respected as you apparently do. He's basically a blogger who consolidates things he's read elsewhere and chimes in his two cents, but my apologies for referring to him as "a guy" and not "The Great and Respected Blogger..." He's also been a pretty clear fan of Backes for a while now. My point is you digging up some random article on yahoo where he mentions Backes isn't dirty as if that's some irrefutable evidence.

I've made no claims about Backes hit the other night. That was a terrible call. That doesn't change my opinion that Backes is a prick and often plays at and sometimes over the line. So like I said originally, when he gets a 5 minute major he didn't deserve for that hit, I certainly don't feel too bad for him. It's not the first time Backes has thrown that type of hit. This one was clean but he's had a few that are borderline late on a defenseman who's made a pass up ice. He comes east west and drills them after the puck is gone and they're looking up ice at the play.

That's not a misinformed opinion by the way, it's just one you don't agree with.

Well, I'm not the one ranking Wyshynski high. He's a respected hockey writer/blogger for Yahoo...I guess just not respected by you, which is convenient for you in this discussion.

I don't read the guy every day, but when I do, I usually enjoy his takes on things. It just came up right away when I did a quick search, and I thought it was funny how much it applied to this discussion, and how much he completely contradicted your (and some others here) opinion of Backes...so, like the thorough guy I am, I shared it.

You see Backes play a few games a year and form your opinion based on that. Understandable.

I see him play every game, every year and also spend time analyzing the Blues for my site and our podcast. So I'm going to defer to my own opinion of him over yours...or even Wyshynski for that matter, since I see Backes play a lot more than he does.

Maybe you just don't like Backes for various, understandable, divison rival-type reasons...but we're going to have to disagree on your idea that he is a dirty player. He has had some questionable hits in the past, like any player has who plays the game hard and plays a very physical game...that can't be avoided. But by saying he is dirty, you are saying he goes out looking to hurt other players, which just isn't the case at all. He doesn't have that type of reputation anywhere (except in here). With that said, I'm not going to pretend he is an angel out there either. He plays with an edge and it's not beyond him to give someone a shot, but to me, that falls under the "that's hockey" category, and is something you see everyone do from time to time...and it's never (at least not that I recall) an intent to injure.

Maybe we just disagree on the definition of "dirty player".

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Well, I'm not the one ranking Wyshynski high. He's a respected hockey writer/blogger for Yahoo...I guess just not respected by you, which is convenient for you in this discussion.

I don't read the guy every day, but when I do, I usually enjoy his takes on things. It just came up right away when I did a quick search, and I thought it was funny how much it applied to this discussion, and how much he completely contradicted your (and some others here) opinion of Backes...so, like the thorough guy I am, I shared it.

You see Backes play a few games a year and form your opinion based on that. Understandable.

I see him play every game, every year and also spend time analyzing the Blues for my site and our podcast. So I'm going to defer to my own opinion of him over yours...or even Wyshynski for that matter, since I see Backes play a lot more than he does.

Maybe you just don't like Backes for various, understandable, divison rival-type reasons...but we're going to have to disagree on your idea that he is a dirty player. He has had some questionable hits in the past, like any player has who plays the game hard and plays a very physical game...that can't be avoided. But by saying he is dirty, you are saying he goes out looking to hurt other players, which just isn't the case at all. He doesn't have that type of reputation anywhere (except in here). With that said, I'm not going to pretend he is an angel out there either. He plays with an edge and it's not beyond him to give someone a shot, but to me, that falls under the "that's hockey" category, and is something you see everyone do from time to time...and it's never (at least not that I recall) an intent to injure.

Maybe we just disagree on the definition of "dirty player".

I think when you break a guys neck with a questionable hit, then you taunt him next time you play him saying you'll do it again, you're pretty much a dirty player, and definitely a prick (Yes, I know he denied it, but he did admit to telling Sprunger to "keep his head up out there" which is basically the same thing, so spare me). There's a lot of stuff I chalk up to "that's hockey" but Backes still stands out from most players in those kinds of incidents. Like I said, he plays on and sometimes over the line. He's not Matt Cooke (or how cooke used to be) but he's a prick.

agree to disagree i guess. If you're so sound in your opinion I don't know why you keep going on about mine.

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If you're so sound in your opinion I don't know why you keep going on about mine.

Because I like to debate. Isn't that obvious? :cheesy:

Yeah, I dunno...the Sprunger hit isn't a great example to try and prove Backes is a dirty player. It was a fast, bang, bang play where the players went into the boards goofy, with the puck right there. That was just an unfortunate play for Sprunger. Hockey is a violent game. Players get hurt sometimes, especially if you have your head down. It doesn't automatically mean the guy who dished the hit out is dirty. A penalty for a hit to the head, sure...but I don't even think Backes had time to think about it as he was playing the puck a millisecond before he collided with Sprunger.

Edited by cprice12

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Because I like to debate. Isn't that obvious? :cheesy:

Yeah, I dunno...the Sprunger hit isn't a great example to try and prove Backes is a dirty player. It was a fast, bang, bang play where the players went into the boards goofy, with the puck right there. That was just an unfortunate play for Sprunger. Hockey is a violent game. Players get hurt sometimes, especially if you have your head down. It doesn't automatically mean the guy who dished the hit out is dirty. A penalty for a hit to the head, sure...but I don't even think Backes had time to think about it as he was playing the puck a millisecond before he collided with Sprunger.

Did you not read what I wrote, are you intentionally misrepresenting what I said?

I called it a questionable hit, not a dirty one. Though it certainly wasn't clean. It could've been boarding, roughing, elbowing. But regardless of whether it was dirty or not, he broke Sprunger's neck on the play. He never bothers to contact Sprunger after the incident. Then the next time they played one another he taunts him saying it could happen again. That's a prick move.

And Backes made no attempt to play the puck when he hit Sprunger, so I'm not sure what you're talking about there.

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Guest Johnz96   
Guest Johnz96

Did you not read what I wrote, are you intentionally misrepresenting what I said?

I called it a questionable hit, not a dirty one. Though it certainly wasn't clean. It could've been boarding, roughing, elbowing. But regardless of whether it was dirty or not, he broke Sprunger's neck on the play. He never bothers to contact Sprunger after the incident. Then the next time they played one another he taunts him saying it could happen again. That's a prick move.

And Backes made no attempt to play the puck when he hit Sprunger, so I'm not sure what you're talking about there.

If that's what he actually did, that is comparable to Lemieux. It's unfortunate the Swiss team didn't have a McCarty like player or a Mike McKee (kids a monster) (Here's his most recent youtube vid, he probably has more vids on youtube than any other Wings' prospects.I looked it up Lichtenwald 6'6" 210lbs and from Saskatoon)

) Edited by Johnz96

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Backes I wouldn't really call a dirty player, but he gets caught up sometimes with his adrenaline where he doesn't like to slow down at all before hits and charges at guys. He also has an issue sometimes where he hits guys in the numbers, but at the same time the player he hits puts himself in that position less than a second before the hit is delivered, which is a fault of a very high % of NHLers. But I will tell you this, If I could have Backes on the Wings, you bet your ass i'd take him. Teams know when he's on the ice cause they don't want to end up in the 5th row. He's tough as nails, he's a decent point producer and he's one intense MF. Imagine him on a line with Helm and Tootoo and tell me that doesn't make you salivate... Backes is like Brown on the Kings. And I'll go on record right now as a die hard 28 years and counting Wings fan, my pick for the Cup this year is the Blues and Backes is gonna be their driving force.

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Backes I wouldn't really call a dirty player, but he gets caught up sometimes with his adrenaline where he doesn't like to slow down at all before hits and charges at guys. He also has an issue sometimes where he hits guys in the numbers, but at the same time the player he hits puts himself in that position less than a second before the hit is delivered, which is a fault of a very high % of NHLers. But I will tell you this, If I could have Backes on the Wings, you bet your ass i'd take him. Teams know when he's on the ice cause they don't want to end up in the 5th row. He's tough as nails, he's a decent point producer and he's one intense MF. Imagine him on a line with Helm and Tootoo and tell me that doesn't make you salivate... Backes is like Brown on the Kings. And I'll go on record right now as a die hard 28 years and counting Wings fan, my pick for the Cup this year is the Blues and Backes is gonna be their driving force.

For the cup their goaltending has to be a lot better, they are deep at almost every position other than that. My picks are Rangers and Kings doubt NJ can repeat their magical run without Zach.

As much as I would love Backes wearing the winged wheel I'd rather have Pietrangelo and he is by far the more realistic option, he will be RFA in the upcoming summer :-) So lets hope SL is going to lowball him an he makes to the point where offersheets are allowed.

Edited by frankgrimes

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For the cup their goaltending has to be a lot better, they are deep at almost every position other than that. My picks are Rangers and Kings doubt NJ can repeat their magical run without Zach.

As much as I would love Backes wearing the winged wheel I'd rather have Pietrangelo and he is by far the more realistic option, he will be RFA in the upcoming summer :-) So lets hope SL is going to lowball him an he makes to the point where offersheets are allowed.

Pietrangelo is my favorite Dman outside of the Wings organization hands down. He was amazing for Canada at the WJC too. Shattenkirk is also an amazing Dman. If Pietrangelo somehow signed with the Wings this summer, I'd no doubt poop myself, but for some reason I don't think I'll be wiping s*** off my undies. But I'd definitely be ok with it if I had to bring in the clean up crew.

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I don't know what debate is going on, but the whole Puck Daddy thing isn't the most credible thing out there. Greg Whateverinski has never impressed me much, nor has the entire column. Their opinions to me are worth about as much as anyone else, only he can string together words decently. That doesn't give you insight.

Edited by shoobiedoobin

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Did you not read what I wrote, are you intentionally misrepresenting what I said?

I called it a questionable hit, not a dirty one. Though it certainly wasn't clean. It could've been boarding, roughing, elbowing. But regardless of whether it was dirty or not, he broke Sprunger's neck on the play. He never bothers to contact Sprunger after the incident. Then the next time they played one another he taunts him saying it could happen again. That's a prick move.

And Backes made no attempt to play the puck when he hit Sprunger, so I'm not sure what you're talking about there.

If I were Backes, I don't think I'd want to contact the guy either because he was constantly whining about the play to the press, calling me a dirty player, etc. I think I'd just leave it alone because he doesn't want to talk with me. But I honestly do not care. It's a hockey play that had an unfortunate outcome where someone got hurt. It happens. Hockey is a rough game.

Here is what Backes said concerning the aleged commment during the next game:

"I was pretty distraught that it happened the first time. You don't ever want to hurt anybody," Backes said. "It was a hard, finished check. He's a good player, and I'm glad he's back on the ice. We had a good battle today, we had a few run-ins, but I don't think I would stoop that low to dig my fingers and pour salt in the wound."

So it's just a question of who you believe on that. And you have made it clear who you believe.

And you are correct about Backes not playing the puck. The puck may hit off of Backes' stick, but he wasn't playing it. For some reason I thought I saw Backes take a swing at the puck, but that wasn't the case. With that said, the puck was in Sprunger's skates...so he was fair game to hit.

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I don't see what the debate is, why does it matter what we think and say about Backes if it's something that is based off of an opinion, it's not like a being a dirty player is like winning a Hart trophy, it's mostly based of personal views.

I go to many other team's boards and I wouldn't care if I saw another fanbase complaining about Kronwall, Stuart, Tootoo, or Bertuzzi etc. being dirty, even if they didn't perform a dirty play it would be so far down the list of concerns and issues for me to talk about.

St. Louis is looking really good this year, the mix of physical play, goaltending/defense, and young talented offensive players should be a really exciting time over in St. Louis, I'd figure it would be more interesting to see how we all think the future looks for both of our teams, what it looks like from another perspective etc. Rather than arguing over a meaningless opinion on a very physical hard to play against player being called dirty. Backes might or might not be dirty, it's not like there is one line of reasoning for determining if a player is dirty, each person can come to their own conclusions based on what they see.

Just my two cents, I personally don't think Backes is dirty, but he is damn tough to play against, plays on the line, sometimes crosses it, so I'm not surprised that fans of a rival team think he's dirty, it's not a huge stretch.

Edited by Carman

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I don't see what the debate is, why does it matter what we think and say about Backes if it's something that is based off of an opinion, it's not like a being a dirty player is like winning a Hart trophy, it's mostly based of personal views.

I go to many other team's boards and I wouldn't care if I saw another fanbase complaining about Kronwall, Stuart, Tootoo, or Bertuzzi etc. being dirty, even if they didn't perform a dirty play it would be so far down the list of concerns and issues for me to talk about.

St. Louis is looking really good this year, the mix of physical play, goaltending/defense, and young talented offensive players should be a really exciting time over in St. Louis, I'd figure it would be more interesting to see how we all think the future looks for both of our teams, what it looks like from another perspective etc. Rather than arguing over a meaningless opinion on a very physical hard to play against player being called dirty. Backes might or might not be dirty, it's not like there is one line of reasoning for determining if a player is dirty, each person can come to their own conclusions based on what they see.

Just my two cents, I personally don't think Backes is dirty, but he is damn tough to play against, plays on the line, sometimes crosses it, so I'm not surprised that fans of a rival team think he's dirty, it's not a huge stretch.

I totally agree...sure wish we had a Backes on this team....

I wonder what today's fans would think of Scott Stevens?

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I totally agree...sure wish we had a Backes on this team....

I wonder what today's fans would think of Scott Stevens?

I'd love Backes on the team. And i'd definitely take Stevens on this team too in his day.

I don't see what the debate is, why does it matter what we think and say about Backes if it's something that is based off of an opinion, it's not like a being a dirty player is like winning a Hart trophy, it's mostly based of personal views.

I go to many other team's boards and I wouldn't care if I saw another fanbase complaining about Kronwall, Stuart, Tootoo, or Bertuzzi etc. being dirty, even if they didn't perform a dirty play it would be so far down the list of concerns and issues for me to talk about.

St. Louis is looking really good this year, the mix of physical play, goaltending/defense, and young talented offensive players should be a really exciting time over in St. Louis, I'd figure it would be more interesting to see how we all think the future looks for both of our teams, what it looks like from another perspective etc. Rather than arguing over a meaningless opinion on a very physical hard to play against player being called dirty. Backes might or might not be dirty, it's not like there is one line of reasoning for determining if a player is dirty, each person can come to their own conclusions based on what they see.

Just my two cents, I personally don't think Backes is dirty, but he is damn tough to play against, plays on the line, sometimes crosses it, so I'm not surprised that fans of a rival team think he's dirty, it's not a huge stretch.

Once Holland lets some guys like Nyquist, Lashoff, Sproul, Oullet, etc come up and get the Wings younger, the future of our team is very bright, along with the acquisition of a nice talent like Brunner. This year though, too many injuries and the production from our 3rd and 4th lines is just disgraceful. Those 2 things are going to be our boys' downfall.

St. Louis I already stated that I believe will win the cup this year. Top to bottom they have the deepest, most talented team and they're healthy. It never hurts when you have a rookie like Tarasenko and a speedy 3rd liner in Schwartz topped off with a healthy McDonald. Pietrangelo for the Conn Smythe and a Blues Cup win is my only prediction for this year.

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