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Rebuilding Thoughts..

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I can't tell if you're trolling me or being serious...

Jurco is one of our top 5 forward prospects...Nestrasil....well he can't seem to stick in the AHL.

Jarnkrok is currently 6'0 176lbs. As listed on the Griffins site who would have been the most recent to take those measurements.

Alright, I will take your word for it.

Jurco is a SET.

Nestrasil was getting a lot of hype a year ago. What happened?

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...

That's our core to build around. If I'm Holland, the guys I left out should all be considered when talking trades.

No it isn't. Other than Howard, we don't yet have anyone to build around. We're not yet at the "build" stage. We're still at Home Depot shopping for material. We can hope that some of the lumber we have already will develop into a foundation, but more likely we'll still have to buy one.

When talking rebuild, we need to consider who we'll be drafting in the next few years. Consider that whomever we draft this year (assuming we end up picking in the 14-17 range) will likely instantly be one of our (if not the) top prospects. Big difference between a 15th overall and 31-33 (which is where we've averaged in recent years). Bigger difference if we decline further and get a top-10.

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Howard - SET

Mrazek - SET

Dekeyser - SET

Kind - SET

Smith - SET

Ericsson - SET

Lashoff - SET

Sproul - SET

Ouelette - SET

Almquist - SET

Tatar - SET

Emmerton - SET

Nyquist - SET

Andersson - SET

Sheahan - SET

Frk - SET

Nestrosil - SET

That's our core to build around. If I'm Holland, the guys I left out should all be considered when talking trades.

I'd like to see what Frk and Nestrasil can do in full AHL seasons before labeling them as future core players. Frk is still a question mark. His production this season is decieving because he played on a good team on Nathan MacKinnon's line. Nestasil can put up points in the ECHL, but hasn't been able to translate it to the AHL. He'll have an even tougher time next season as the Griffins already have a pretty well established bottom 6, and he'll have to compete with Jurco, Sheahan, Ferraro and whatever established veteran AHL guy(s) that Griffins have along with Jarnkrok and Pulkkinen for top 6 minutes. Plus, the clock is ticking. Nestrasil has already burned 2 years of his 3 year entry level deal and hasn't even spent half a season at the AHL level yet. If he doesn't make a drastic turn-around next season, he won't be resigned. At this point, Ferraro, Parkes, Callahan and Aubry should be considered future core material WAY before Nestrasil.

As far as Jurco goes, he needs to produce much better at the AHL level before being considered core material. Considering all of the hype around him going into this season, 28pts at the AHL level is a bit of a let down.

If you have Emmerton in your core list (which I am most certainly not against), you should probably also include Ferraro. Ferraro already looks like he will end up being a slightly better and more physical version of Emmerton, while having the same versatility. He's also scored one less goal (33) in 128 AHL games, than Emmerton did (34) in 217 AHL games.

As far as "players being considered when talking trades" goes, I doubt Holland will be discussing many trades this summer, if any. It now appears that the Wings will most likely be starting next season with 11 players between the ages of 22 and 27 on their 23 man roster: Abdelkader, Andersson, Brunner, DeKeyser, Emmerton, Helm, Kindl, Lashoff, Nyquist, Smith and Tatar. All of these players showed improved play this season (except Helm for reasons out of his control) and still have varying degrees of untapped upside to reach. If three or four of these guys show further improvement next season, it will be a more beneficial and affordable addition than dumping off assets to overpay for a trade. Besides, none of the players that you didn't list will bring Holland any decent return without him including a player (or players) from your list of "core" guys or good draft picks.

Edited by DSM

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Alright, I will take your word for it.

Jurco is a SET.

Nestrasil was getting a lot of hype a year ago. What happened?

How can you write a post about prospects that should NOT be discussed for trades and have someone mention Jurco...one of our top guys and you add him to the list? If you dont know who Jurco is, I'm not sure your list will be credible. Nestrasil is not a SET....wanna take my word for it?

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How can you write a post about prospects that should NOT be discussed for trades and have someone mention Jurco...one of our top guys and you add him to the list? If you dont know who Jurco is, I'm not sure your list will be credible. Nestrasil is not a SET....wanna take my word for it?

Nestrasil is going to have to pull a Tomas Kopecky next season to get any sort of consideration for a spot on the big club.

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Nestrasil is going to have to pull a Tomas Kopecky next season to get any sort of consideration for a spot on the big club.

You mean he has to cozy up to & become best buds with a much more talented player?

haroldsnepsts likes this

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No it isn't. Other than Howard, we don't yet have anyone to build around. We're not yet at the "build" stage. We're still at Home Depot shopping for material. We can hope that some of the lumber we have already will develop into a foundation, but more likely we'll still have to buy one.

When talking rebuild, we need to consider who we'll be drafting in the next few years. Consider that whomever we draft this year (assuming we end up picking in the 14-17 range) will likely instantly be one of our (if not the) top prospects. Big difference between a 15th overall and 31-33 (which is where we've averaged in recent years). Bigger difference if we decline further and get a top-10.

What? Howard's the only one to build around? Is this forced pessimism? Zetterberg, Kronwall..both here for a long time. We saw some great young talent this year. A young defense that forced white and colaiacovo out of the line up. Nyquist, andersson and Tatar all demanding full time slots. Yes, we need pieces, but I'm constantly surprised that people look at this year and see such a dark future. Are we watching the same games? A year like this is the price you pay for transition, but there has been a steady changing of the guard throughout the season.

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What? Howard's the only one to build around? Is this forced pessimism? Zetterberg, Kronwall..both here for a long time. We saw some great young talent this year. A young defense that forced white and colaiacovo out of the line up. Nyquist, andersson and Tatar all demanding full time slots. Yes, we need pieces, but I'm constantly surprised that people look at this year and see such a dark future. Are we watching the same games? A year like this is the price you pay for transition, but there has been a steady changing of the guard throughout the season.

I can understand how you came to that conclusion, but it's not pessimism at all, nor do I think the future is particularly dark. I just don't think the real building is going to start for a few years yet. I figure we'll likely stay around our current level for another 1-3 years (depending on Datsyuk), adding a few more pieces along the way.

By that time, Datsyuk will probably be gone, Hank, Kronwall, and Franzen will be mid-30s. The kids so far look like good pieces to build with, but as yet no one has emerged as someone to build around. It's possible some may do so. Also possible that enough of them will turn out "good" that we'll be able to compete will depth instead of star power. Much more likely though is that we will need some to become real stars, and we probably haven't drafted them yet.

I'm hopeful that we can find our future stars without dropping all the way to the basement, perhaps without even missing the playoffs, but historically speaking it's not very likely. The good news, though, is that once we find those stars, all the other pieces we have should have some experience or be ready to step in to the lineup. Plus we should still have plenty of veteran leadership to help the kids grow. The rise, once it starts, should be quick. Realistically I think 5-6 years is about the minimum we should expect before we're getting back to the top. If anything, I'm probably being optimistic in thinking Howie will have that kind of longevity.

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I just...MUST we start a new thread every week with a player by player breakdown of who we should keep? I am getting this constant déjà vu every time I read these.

Jimmy Howard steals games for us on a regular basis. If we had a better team in front of him he would be a Vezina contender in my opinion.

The only other point that bugs me a lot is Eaves. Is he our best player? No, but he's been out for a long time and if these last few games are any indication of what he's capable of then I think he could have a long term place with the Wings.

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I'd like to see what Frk and Nestrasil can do in full AHL seasons before labeling them as future core players. Frk is still a question mark. His production this season is decieving because he played on a good team on Nathan MacKinnon's line. Nestasil can put up points in the ECHL, but hasn't been able to translate it to the AHL. He'll have an even tougher time next season as the Griffins already have a pretty well established bottom 6, and he'll have to compete with Jurco, Sheahan, Ferraro and whatever established veteran AHL guy(s) that Griffins have along with Jarnkrok and Pulkkinen for top 6 minutes. Plus, the clock is ticking. Nestrasil has already burned 2 years of his 3 year entry level deal and hasn't even spent half a season at the AHL level yet. If he doesn't make a drastic turn-around next season, he won't be resigned. At this point, Ferraro, Parkes, Callahan and Aubry should be considered future core material WAY before Nestrasil.

As far as Jurco goes, he needs to produce much better at the AHL level before being considered core material. Considering all of the hype around him going into this season, 28pts at the AHL level is a bit of a let down.

If you have Emmerton in your core list (which I am most certainly not against), you should probably also include Ferraro. Ferraro already looks like he will end up being a slightly better and more physical version of Emmerton, while having the same versatility. He's also scored one less goal (33) in 128 AHL games, than Emmerton did (34) in 217 AHL games.

As far as "players being considered when talking trades" goes, I doubt Holland will be discussing many trades this summer, if any. It now appears that the Wings will most likely be starting next season with 11 players between the ages of 22 and 27 on their 23 man roster: Abdelkader, Andersson, Brunner, DeKeyser, Emmerton, Helm, Kindl, Lashoff, Nyquist, Smith and Tatar. All of these players showed improved play this season (except Helm for reasons out of his control) and still have varying degrees of untapped upside to reach. If three or four of these guys show further improvement next season, it will be a more beneficial and affordable addition than dumping off assets to overpay for a trade. Besides, none of the players that you didn't list will bring Holland any decent return without him including a player (or players) from your list of "core" guys or good draft picks.

That's a good point. Ferraro should be in there. I'm going to add him as a SET.

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I think there are some gaps to fill, but the number one concern is a natural goal scorer that is worth 30+ goals / season. I look forward to tartar and nyquist getting some solid work in over the off season and getting to play a full season next year being centered by Zetterberg or Datsyuk. Also i think with some more work and experience Brunner could be worth 25+ goals. I like the team we have now and i wouldnt want to see a huge change unless it is for a keith Yandle type defencemen or a Bobby Ryan type forward. Both of those players with the chance to let our young players grow will be a promising year.

Edited by zcon

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I can understand how you came to that conclusion, but it's not pessimism at all, nor do I think the future is particularly dark. I just don't think the real building is going to start for a few years yet. I figure we'll likely stay around our current level for another 1-3 years (depending on Datsyuk), adding a few more pieces along the way.

By that time, Datsyuk will probably be gone, Hank, Kronwall, and Franzen will be mid-30s. The kids so far look like good pieces to build with, but as yet no one has emerged as someone to build around. It's possible some may do so. Also possible that enough of them will turn out "good" that we'll be able to compete will depth instead of star power. Much more likely though is that we will need some to become real stars, and we probably haven't drafted them yet.

I'm hopeful that we can find our future stars without dropping all the way to the basement, perhaps without even missing the playoffs, but historically speaking it's not very likely. The good news, though, is that once we find those stars, all the other pieces we have should have some experience or be ready to step in to the lineup. Plus we should still have plenty of veteran leadership to help the kids grow. The rise, once it starts, should be quick. Realistically I think 5-6 years is about the minimum we should expect before we're getting back to the top. If anything, I'm probably being optimistic in thinking Howie will have that kind of longevity.

Okay, I understand your point of view and think, at base, I agree. A return to the top does depend on a couple of our prospects emerging as higher impact players or stars. That does mean outplaying projections for most of them, but I've seen very good signs this year. The other ways of obtaining such a player, of course, is free agency and trades and we can still lay hope in that.

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