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thegerkin

Steve Yzerman wants Game Misconduct penalties for fighting

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I prefer to be called a 'knuckle dragger' - thank you very much!

Haha, I think I got it right the first time. Knuckle draggers are the guys you're advocating keeping on hockey teams.

Sorry for wanting the young guys and star players to be safe and comfortable outthere. I'd rather be a knuckle dragger, past romanizer than someone who is okay, with watering down the game even more so it becomes soccer or dancing on ice someday.

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Sorry for wanting the young guys and star players to be safe and comfortable outthere. I'd rather be a knuckle dragger, past romanizer than someone who is okay, with watering down the game even more so it becomes soccer or dancing on ice someday.

Haha, nice try. Tell me again about how you'd rather be a past "romanizer".

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Sorry for wanting the young guys and star players to be safe and comfortable outthere. I'd rather be a knuckle dragger, past romanizer than someone who is okay, with watering down the game even more so it becomes soccer or dancing on ice someday.

Do you really not see the inconsistency in your logic? You flip flop back and forth between saying that reducing fights would make hockey more dangerous and that it dilute hockey to the point that it is dancing on ice. Your position is so untenable you need to do these mental backflips in order to justify it in your mind. When someone says that removing or reducing fighting would make the game safer you respond that it waters the game down. When it's argued that the integrity of the game will be preserved even without fighting you just come back and say it would be dangerous. The problem is, your scenarios are incompatible. What the "anti-fighting crowd" (soccer moms as you also call them) wants is to reduce unnecessary injuries while preserving the other, necessary physical aspects that are actually part of the game.

Edited by The Greek

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It is just a matter of time before Bettman and company has ruined the game of hockey completely. They will not stop until hockey looks like figureskating.

Oh, knock it off with the useless hyperbole, would you? If fighting ever disappeared from the game entirely, hockey would not look like figure skating, not even close. The only thing the two activities have in common is they take place on skates. That's it.

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Oh, knock it off with the useless hyperbole, would you? If fighting ever disappeared from the game entirely, hockey would not look like figure skating, not even close. The only thing the two activities have in common is they take place on skates. That's it.

Fighting has been practically extinct from the Wings' game for years. I wonder how many people on these forums find watching them similar to figure skating.

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Fighting has been practically extinct from the Wings' game for years. I wonder how many people on these forums find watching them similar to figure skating.

Haha, what are you talking about? The Wings team has been populated by such monumental bad*sses as Brad May, Dallas Drake, and Aaron Downey. And as you well know, those men are collectively responsible for keeping Dats, Z, and Lidstrom safe during those years. Nowadays, Tootoo, Ericsson, and Bertuzzi can't hold and candle to those great gladiators of the past.

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Fighting has been practically extinct from the Wings' game for years. I wonder how many people on these forums find watching them similar to figure skating.

Ok...The brutally honest neanderthal inside me has gotta reply...

Wings vs Blue Jackets - OR - Habs vs Bruins...Guess what I'll watch?

Wings vs Yotes - OR - Flyers vs Bruins...Take a guess?

Wings vs Panthers - OR - Leafs vs Habs...Seeing what I'm getting at?

I love me some physical tough hockey, and if things get heated, and a few scraps between willing combatants breaks out - even better!

Again - it's why I'll take our 97/98 Cup teams anyday over our 08 team...Maybe we'll see some of the intensity renewed now that we're with our old rivals from the east.

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Ok...The brutally honest neanderthal inside me has gotta reply...

Wings vs Blue Jackets - OR - Habs vs Bruins...Guess what I'll watch?

Wings vs Yotes - OR - Flyers vs Bruins...Take a guess?

Wings vs Panthers - OR - Leafs vs Habs...Seeing what I'm getting at?

I love me some physical tough hockey, and if things get heated, and a few scraps between willing combatants breaks out - even better!

Again - it's why I'll take our 97/98 Cup teams anyday over our 08 team...Maybe we'll see some of the intensity renewed now that we're with our old rivals from the east.

Honestly I agree. Physical hockey is exciting to watch, and even though I support the game-misconduct for a fight, I get a bit more excited when I see a fight happen (although if its a pointless fight right off the face-off with no real hatred as the cause of the fight, I do roll my eyes a bit). But I also think that there is a lot of other exciting stuff in hockey without the fights occurring, and that was the essence of my previous post. Datsyuk's puck mastery, team puck movement, solid body-checks, power-play and penalty kill tactics, acrobatic goaltending, etc etc etc are all reasons why I'm a fan of the game, and taking steps to reduce the frequency of fighting will not affect any of these things. On the contrary, I think it will enhance the above, because the goons with no purpose but to fight will be eliminated from the game, and more time will be spent playing hockey instead of kicking up dirt. I also think the truly passionate fights will still be in the game, because if your blood is that boiled, you're not thinking about a game-misconduct or any sort of consequence of your action. I believe the brawls with the Avs would still have occurred with a game misconduct penalty. Those teams absolutely hated each other.

Edited by Echolalia

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Honestly I agree. Physical hockey is exciting to watch, and even though I support the game-misconduct for a fight, I get a bit more excited when I see a fight happen (although if its a pointless fight right off the face-off with no real hatred as the cause of the fight, I do roll my eyes a bit). But I also think that there is a lot of other exciting stuff in hockey without the fights occurring, and that was the essence of my previous post. Datsyuk's puck mastery, team puck movement, solid body-checks, power-play and penalty kill tactics, acrobatic goaltending, etc etc etc are all reasons why I'm a fan of the game, and taking steps to reduce the frequency of fighting will not affect any of these things. On the contrary, I think it will enhance the above, because the goons with no purpose but to fight will be eliminated from the game, and more time will be spent playing hockey instead of kicking up dirt. I also think the truly passionate fights will still be in the game, because if your blood is that boiled, you're not thinking about a game-misconduct or any sort of consequence of your action. I believe the brawls with the Avs would still have occurred with a game misconduct penalty. Those teams absolutely hated each other.

"Staged" face-off fights that I recall from years ago...

Probert/Domi - classic - never knew a bowling ball could take so many punches.

Probert/Clark - another smaller player with a ton of heart in 'Wendy' :lol:

There has been hundreds of others, and many of those staged fights to me are rather 'umm - ok', and truth be told - the staged fights these past few years are really something I can live without...

The heat of the battle type of scraps between heated opponents (or old rivalries) is what I enjoy.

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Ok...The brutally honest neanderthal inside me has gotta reply...

Wings vs Blue Jackets - OR - Habs vs Bruins...Guess what I'll watch?

Wings vs Yotes - OR - Flyers vs Bruins...Take a guess?

Wings vs Panthers - OR - Leafs vs Habs...Seeing what I'm getting at?

I love me some physical tough hockey, and if things get heated, and a few scraps between willing combatants breaks out - even better!

Again - it's why I'll take our 97/98 Cup teams anyday over our 08 team...Maybe we'll see some of the intensity renewed now that we're with our old rivals from the east.

I guess this is where we differ. You'd apparently rather watch two teams, neither of whom you're a fan of, just because they're more likely to punch each other. I'd rather watch the Red Wings win. I'd rather watch Datsyuk dangle, Kronwall hit, and Jimmy stand on his head. I'd rather see the game where our powerplay finally comes alive, or Alfie get his first goal as a Wing, or a four goal night from Mule, or Mrazek come off the bench because of a (non-serious) injury to Jimmy and play out of this world.

There's no need to invent drama in sports, there's always something there. Even against the Panthers. I always thought that's what makes a diehard fan. When you don't miss a game, regardless of the opponent. When you don't leave early, even during a loss. When you always find something to be excited about. When you'd rather watch the Detroit Red Wings play the Phoenix Coyotes than the Bruins and the Habs, not because it'll be the best game ever, but because they're the Detroit F*cking Red Wings and they're the best team ever. And for games like against Carolina. A nobody.

But apparently, when you're being honest, you'd rather see one guy punch another guy.

Edited by kipwinger

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Sorry Stevie but I disagree. fact is you spent a good portion of your career-nearly all being protected by guys like Probert, Kocur, McCarty, Shanny, etc....... You had 1 career fight, lost badly, and were smart enough to never do it again, which counters your argument. no one has to fight. But most star players are glad there are guys that do.

Some of us remember that wonderful evening back in 1997 when the RW finally became a champion. No it wasn't a 5 goal night from federov or stevie, it wasn't the night we finally lifted the cup over our heads, it was a couple of months earlier than that, at the Joe vs the Avs in March. Every RW fan under 30 knows that night. But most can't tell you who won the game, or what the final score was. But everyone remembers the night of the turtle. Everyone remembers Mccarty redeeming his best friends honor. Everyone remembers Shanny clocking Roy, and then letting Vernon pummel Roy. BTW the final score was 6-5 RW's, with McCarty scoring the game winner-something he wouldn't be allowed to do if Stevie had his way. Same guy scored the Cup winning goal a few months later.

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When Yzerman was being protected by these players did he know then what he knows now?

Maybe the new revelations about concussions in sport have changed his mind.

Maybe now that he is a dad his mind has changed.

None of you changed your mind after thinking one way for 20+ years, then discovered/learned something you previously were unaware of?

Do you think maybe the research and studies down on CTE and concussions have changed his mind?

For instance players used to smoke butts in the locker room before and after periods, should they still be doing it?

No because they realized the impact it has on their breathing and abilities, so players for the most part stopped smoking, and all of them (due to laws) no longer smoke in the locker room.

Also can we stop using the Blood feud as evidence we need to keep fighting, when was the last time a rivalry was that strong and had that much bad blood.

No fight in the past 15 years has as much reason to be had as those fights.

IF every fight in the NHL was in the same vein as the ones between the Wings and Avs, I for one would have no issue with them.

But most of the fights are over clean hits, scrums at the net, or because a couple of goons are on the ice.

Even when Matt Cooke ended Marc Savard's career, how many of the big bad bruins kicked his arse?

Edited by Opie

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Sorry Stevie but I disagree. fact is you spent a good portion of your career-nearly all being protected by guys like Probert, Kocur, McCarty, Shanny, etc....... You had 1 career fight, lost badly, and were smart enough to never do it again, which counters your argument. no one has to fight. But most star players are glad there are guys that do.

Some of us remember that wonderful evening back in 1997 when the RW finally became a champion. No it wasn't a 5 goal night from federov or stevie, it wasn't the night we finally lifted the cup over our heads, it was a couple of months earlier than that, at the Joe vs the Avs in March. Every RW fan under 30 knows that night. But most can't tell you who won the game, or what the final score was. But everyone remembers the night of the turtle. Everyone remembers Mccarty redeeming his best friends honor. Everyone remembers Shanny clocking Roy, and then letting Vernon pummel Roy. BTW the final score was 6-5 RW's, with McCarty scoring the game winner-something he wouldn't be allowed to do if Stevie had his way. Same guy scored the Cup winning goal a few months later.

If nobody were allowed to change their minds I'd still think Sesame Street was the greatest show in the world, and I'd still want to be a transformer when I grew up.

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BTW someone brought up bare knuckle boxing. fact: bare knuckle boxing is much safer for the brain than boxing with gloves. You can hit much harder with gloves on than without. BK boxing was very bloody-turned off fans. It was also much slower because the number 1 injury was broken hands. Without gloves there were cuts and blood. Now there is concussions. same is true in rugby vs football. rugby has 1/10th the number of concussions that football has. Without head protection, players stop using their heads as weapons. if the goal in all of this is to make the games safer, call/enforce the rules: charging and boarding in hockey and spearing in football. helmets do not prevent concussions, nor are those designed to. those are designed to prevent skull fractures. Concussions are caused by the brain moving inside of the skull and crashing into the skull wall. There is no piece of equipment that can be made that will prevent that from happening.

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Stevie Y can still not sign enforcers and build a soft boring to watch team, so can Rutherford and the other soccer on ice supporting coaches GMs but who the heck they think they are in order to decide how others should be building their teams? I hate to admit it but the Leafs with guys like Orr Mclaren and Frazer are a damn exciting team to watch, even if they lose. Someone already mentioned it, I'd rather watch Leafs versus Habs compared to Detroitredwings against some boring to watch team such as the Rutherford built Hurricanes.

When this team was the class of the NHL guys like Koccur, Downie and McCarty also were part of the great hype about this team and now? Skill is diminishing, hits are barely seen and young players have to go through hell in order to get the jobs from long over the hill veterans and yet the anti fighting crowd is still questioning why the interest of fans is going down and the Joe isn't as packed as it used to be?

A guy like Downie would have smashed Weber's ugly face through the glass after the Zetterberg incident instead of just getting fined 2,5...

Edited by frankgrimes

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Stevie Y can still not sign enforcers and build a soft boring to watch team, so can Rutherford and the other soccer on ice supporting coaches GMs but who the heck they think they are in order to decide how others should be building their teams? I hate to admit it but the Leafs with guys like Orr Mclaren and Frazer are a damn exciting team to watch, even if they lose. Someone already mentioned it, I'd rather watch Leafs versus Habs compared to Detroitredwings against some boring to watch team such as the Rutherford built Hurricanes. When this team was the class of the NHL guys like Koccur, Downie and McCarty also were part of the great hype about this team and now? Skill is diminishing, hits are barely seen and young players have to go through hell in order to get the jobs from long over the hill veterans and yet the anti fighting crowd is still questioning why the interest of fans is going down and the Joe isn't as packed as it used to be? A guy like Downie would have smashed Weber's ugly face through the glass after the Zetterberg incident instead of just getting fined 2,5...

Haha, cute. Except none of the "anti-fighting" crowd is questioning anything like this, mostly because it's not true. It's just another thing you've completely made up to legitimize your personal preference. Here in the real world, dominated by facts, league revenue and television viewership is still steadily increasing, despite the diminishing number of fights.

Edit: Also, Detroit was third in the league in attendance last season. We actually had higher average attendance last year than we did during the 97-98 Cup season. So it really is just as full as it ever was. Here's proof...

http://www.hockeyattendance.com/league/nhl/2012/?sort=avg_att

Maybe don't make stuff up if you want to have intelligent discussions here on the discussion forum. Just a thought.

Edited by kipwinger

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I guess this is where we differ. You'd apparently rather watch two teams, neither of whom you're a fan of, just because they're more likely to punch each other. I'd rather watch the Red Wings win. I'd rather watch Datsyuk dangle, Kronwall hit, and Jimmy stand on his head. I'd rather see the game where our powerplay finally comes alive, or Alfie get his first goal as a Wing, or a four goal night from Mule, or Mrazek come off the bench because of a (non-serious) injury to Jimmy and play out of this world.

There's no need to invent drama in sports, there's always something there. Even against the Panthers. I always thought that's what makes a diehard fan. When you don't miss a game, regardless of the opponent. When you don't leave early, even during a loss. When you always find something to be excited about. When you'd rather watch the Detroit Red Wings play the Phoenix Coyotes than the Bruins and the Habs, not because it'll be the best game ever, but because they're the Detroit F*cking Red Wings and they're the best team ever. And for games like against Carolina. A nobody.

But apparently, when you're being honest, you'd rather see one guy punch another guy.

Been a die-hard Detroit Red Wings fan since 1984.

I've always enjoyed physical/tough hockey.

Just because I choose to watch a different game a few times a year when the Wings are on at the same time doesn't take away the fact that the Wings have been, and always be my #1 team.

Once again boys, and girls...Physical/tough hockey against a long time rival is much more fun to watch than hockey with little to no contact, and against an opponent that has little to no history of competing against one another.

Am I one of the few here that yearn for a Red Wings vs "opponent's name here" rivalry that harkens back to what we had against the Avs?

Haha, cute. Except none of the "anti-fighting" crowd is questioning anything like this, mostly because it's not true. It's just another thing you've completely made up to legitimize your personal preference. Here in the real world, dominated by facts, league revenue and television viewership is still steadily increasing, despite the diminishing number of fights.

Edit: Also, Detroit was third in the league in attendance last season. We actually had higher average attendance last year than we did during the 97-98 Cup season. So it really is just as full as it ever was. Here's proof...

http://www.hockeyattendance.com/league/nhl/2012/?sort=avg_att

Maybe don't make stuff up if you want to have intelligent discussions here on the discussion forum. Just a thought.

Can't find the attendance numbers from the 97/98 Cup seasons on the link you provided...

You making stuff up ;)

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None of you changed your mind after thinking one way for 20+ years, then discovered/learned something you previously were unaware of?

When I was about 5 years old - I snuck a sip from my mom's scotch & soda on a Easter Sunday...Had to immediately down a few Peeps, and I don't even like Peeps.

Man - you should see my single malt collection I have today...Whodah thought?

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Been a die-hard Detroit Red Wings fan since 1984.

I've always enjoyed physical/tough hockey.

Just because I choose to watch a different game a few times a year when the Wings are on at the same time doesn't take away the fact that the Wings have been, and always be my #1 team.

Once again boys, and girls...Physical/tough hockey against a long time rival is much more fun to watch than hockey with little to no contact, and against an opponent that has little to no history of competing against one another.

Am I one of the few here that yearn for a Red Wings vs "opponent's name here" rivalry that harkens back to what we had against the Avs?

Can't find the attendance numbers from the 97/98 Cup seasons on the link you provided...

You making stuff up ;)

http://espn.go.com/nhl/attendance/_/year/2013

This link will give you the attendance for any year you want, including the two I mentioned.

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http://espn.go.com/nhl/attendance/_/year/2013

This link will give you the attendance for any year you want, including the two I mentioned.

It only goes down to 2000/2001...Your credibility is venturing onto thin ice...

EDIT - for what it's worth - I recall the Joe adding seats (kinda inflates your claim)...JLA capacity from Wikipedia...http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Louis_Arena

ce hockey:

19,275 (1979–1996)

19,983 (1996–2000)

19,995 (2000–2001)

20,058 (2001–2003)

20,066 (2003–present)

Basketball: 20,153

Professional wrestling: 18,735

Concerts: 21,666[4]

Edited by F.Michael

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It only goes down to 2000/2001...Your credibility is venturing onto thin ice...

EDIT - for what it's worth - I recall the Joe adding seats (kinda inflates your claim)...JLA capacity from Wikipedia...http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Louis_Arena

ce hockey:

19,275 (1979–1996)

19,983 (1996–2000)

19,995 (2000–2001)

20,058 (2001–2003)

20,066 (2003–present)

Basketball: 20,153

Professional wrestling: 18,735

Concerts: 21,666[4]

http://espn.go.com/nhl/attendance/_/year/1998

Ok, this is it...finally. I'm watching this Tigers game and hardly paying attention to anything else. It's an amazing freaking game!

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It might take me a day or 2 to find this, but there was a 10 year long study in the minors from 95 through 2005 about what effects attendance more: fighting or winning. by a sizeable margin fighting had a bigger impact. teams that increased their fighting majors had a larger % of increase in attendance than teams that increased their winning %.

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