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thegerkin

Steve Yzerman wants Game Misconduct penalties for fighting

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TSN's OTR with Michael Landsberg is always right on top of the latest topics. Today, he had a a spirited debate between two former players all too familiar with the subject: Lyndon Byers and Jim Thompson.

Byers is my man I love his reference to soccer mums and dads. The guy is one of the toughest to ever lace them up so he should know and Byers *like most players* is fully aware of the danger. Stevo Y can not tellme that he was not happy, when guys like McCarty, Koccur or Downey had his back, otherwise the Lidstrom incident against the Avalanche would have happened a lot more often with way worse outcomes.

If the soccermums and dads of the world are deciding against hockey, because it is dangerious an violent so be it, these are also the type of parents who will scream bloody murder after a foul in soccer. Stuff like this sadly happens but banning the on ice policy and watering down the game even more is just pure nuts. It is too funnz that a guy lke Rutherford has also joined the discussion, maybe he just wants a rat like Ruutu being free to do his stuff. I am also not surprised that Shero is in favor of banning fighting, because the Penguins would never sign an enforcer right...oh the irony

The players have already spoken they feel safer with an enforcer in the lineup, the enforcers are well aware of the danger so I really don>t think this debate will amount to anything, thankfully.

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I'm puzzled by people mentioning the Draper/Lemiuex and Lidstrom/Laperrierre hits. On both occasions we had fighters on the team., on both occasions they did nothing to prevent the hit occuring. No point circle jerking over Downey dropping the gloves when Lidstrom is already out injured. Clearly Downey failed as an enforcer.

Lemiuex was a dirty SOB his entire career and enforcers did nothing to stop his cheap-shotting.

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Cooke and Torres have a long history of cheapshotting players. All while fighting is still a part of the game. It's apparently not an effective enough deterrent for either one of them to stop cheapshotting. What finally got to Cooke's attention was a 17 game suspension from the league. The league's suspensions clearly haven't gotten Torres' attention yet, but neither has any enforcer.

I agree. Lost income is much better deterrent against cheap shots than fighting. That black eye will go away soon enough but losing nearly quarter of your annual paycheck got to hurt.

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I'm puzzled by people mentioning the Draper/Lemiuex and Lidstrom/Laperrierre hits. On both occasions we had fighters on the team., on both occasions they did nothing to prevent the hit occuring. No point circle jerking over Downey dropping the gloves when Lidstrom is already out injured. Clearly Downey failed as an enforcer.

Lemiuex was a dirty SOB his entire career and enforcers did nothing to stop his cheap-shotting.

Not true at all, it was a bounding moment for the whole team. Downeys job was to take care off business after the incident and he did a damn got job, that is wy enforcers are needed. Rats should have to answer for their crap ON THE ice if suspensions are coming on top of that fine.

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Not true at all, it was a bounding moment for the whole team. Downeys job was to take care off business after the incident and he did a damn got job, that is wy enforcers are needed. Rats should have to answer for their crap ON THE ice if suspensions are coming on top of that fine.

I really would not care all that much if a guy who just put Dats or Z out of commission for few week had to fight after the fact. A player I love to watch play hockey would be gone for a while and instead I got to see a fight between couple of guys who probably should not even be in the league anyway. Does not sound like a good deal at all.

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What concerns me most about a ban on fighting in the NHL is - what might take place if fighting is indeed "eliminated"...

I take it that most here are pretty media savy - as in most probably saw the pic of Sam Gagne.....

1297470737744_ORIGINAL.jpg?quality=80&si

Most of us have watched hockey for quite a few years; I'm up there with Harold (30 plus years)...Can't tell ya how many scaps I've seen in my lifetime, and how many 5 on 5 tussles where everyone on the ice is tied up with someone else...Now...What if fighting were removed/banned, and tempers on the ice flared up?

Anyone seeing where I'm going with this?

The above broken jaw suffered by Sam Gagne was an 'accidental high stick'.....Just think of what might happen if there was a purposeful swing of a stick at an opponents head?.....Now just think of the nightmare if there were several plus individuals on the ice partaking in a 'stick swinging competition'?

IMHO - fighting is the lesser of the evils...If fighting needs to be banned - let the NHLPA do it.

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It's a good thing that Parros lost his balance as it makes this topic discussable.

AND that concussions occur OUTSIDE of fighting...

Heck - they even take place in high school sports, and in everyday life...

Oh - btw - technically speaking - it was Orr who lost his balance - thus pulling Parros over, and striking his head onto the ice...

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When was the last time you saw a sanctioned bare knuckle boxing match?

Er, as minor point here, boxing gloves and MMA gloves don't reduce brain trauma or damage to the head. In fact, they likely increase it. Gloves protect a fighter's hands, and let them punch much, much harder. I've never understood why hockey players drop their gloves to fight, other than that they may simply be too unwieldy to be useful in a fight.

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Again, hockey will still be hockey once fighting is inevitably banned.

The growth of MMA in the past few decades and the widespread intereest in watching guys like Mayweather fight suggests that combat sports are doing fine in N. America. I don't think there is anything inevitable about fighting being banned in hockey.

I'm in the middle on this issue. Fights are an entertaining part of the sport and growing up they've seemed integral to the game of hockey. However, plenty of tempers flair in other sports, such as basketball, and although fighting is heavily penalized, cheap shots don't seem more prevalent than in the NHL.

I like the suggestion that if players want it banned they work with the NHLPA to get it done.

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I'm puzzled by people mentioning the Draper/Lemiuex and Lidstrom/Laperrierre hits. On both occasions we had fighters on the team., on both occasions they did nothing to prevent the hit occuring. No point circle jerking over Downey dropping the gloves when Lidstrom is already out injured. Clearly Downey failed as an enforcer.

Lemiuex was a dirty SOB his entire career and enforcers did nothing to stop his cheap-shotting.

The argument of cheap shot prevention can't be proven either way. That is, we can't say there are more or less cheap shots with fighting because we don't know what would happen in the NHL if fighting were removed.

Paul Maurice, who has experience in both the NHL and KHL, had an interesting take on this yesterday.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PzArIIv_N6I

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You'd think that if fighting were to equal getting kicked out of the game that goons would become more prevalent than they are now.

If you want to get rid of a Pavel or Z, why send someone after them who could actually play? Why not send out the guy that plays four minutes and throws five punches?

Oh, heavens! That's it! Sammy can be our new enforcer! He plays games against players like Crosby- you know, guys with talent- if it looks like we're going to lose, we send him in gloves ablaze. He gets kicked out, and so does the guy with talent. He doesn't have to win fights; he just has to stay standing long enough to get the other guy kicked out! From Whipping Boy to Whooping Boy! I'm a genius!

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You'd think that if fighting were to equal getting kicked out of the game that goons would become more prevalent than they are now.

If you want to get rid of a Pavel or Z, why send someone after them who could actually play? Why not send out the guy that plays four minutes and throws five punches?

Oh, heavens! That's it! Sammy can be our new enforcer! He plays games against players like Crosby- you know, guys with talent- if it looks like we're going to lose, we send him in gloves ablaze. He gets kicked out, and so does the guy with talent. He doesn't have to win fights; he just has to stay standing long enough to get the other guy kicked out! From Whipping Boy to Whooping Boy! I'm a genius!

Agreed.

WorkingOvertime has a video up with Paul Maurice echoing the same sentiments.

BTW - how can we post videos up by not having to link them?

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Agreed.

WorkingOvertime has a video up with Paul Maurice echoing the same sentiments.

BTW - how can we post videos up by not having to link them?

Yep- I watched the video and that made me think of having Sammy be our enforcer. Quite valid points he made.

As for posting, I'm not sure. Sometimes I get lucky and the video appears.

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If you take out fighting because it's dangerous soon you remove hitting, soon you make the puck lighter and soon you make the blades blunter and on it goes...Ice hockey is not a safe sport. It's played on ice for f***s sake. It'll never be safe. The topic of getting rid of fighting is boring and pointless. There are many far more dangerous aspects of the sport.

The players want it. Most of the fans want it. People who don't watch the sport and the media make a fuss because they're bored. f*** them all.

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To me this clip somewhat represents both sides of the argument.

Getting knocked out cold in no way deterred Matt Cooke from cheapshotting guys. On the flipside, it is satisfying watching him get a beatdown like that. But it was no deterrent.

Also, I'll pretty much use any excuse to post this clip because Cooke is such a dirtbag who shouldn't be in this league, even if he's "reformed."

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TSN's OTR with Michael Landsberg is always right on top of the latest topics. Today, he had a a spirited debate between two former players all too familiar with the subject: Lyndon Byers and Jim Thompson.

Lyndon Byers cracks me up...Last time I saw him on NESN - he was scruffy looking, and wearing a Hawaiian shirt :lol:

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While what you're saying is true - I agree with everything you've posted so far...

Concussions also take place with clean hits, hits from behind, players losing an edge, and strike the boards etc etc...............

To be honest - as long as hockey remains a contact sport - a sport in which a player carries a weapon (stick) - there'll always be a significant risk for injury...There's just no way of getting around that.

So are you arguing that unless we can get rid of ALL risk in the game, we shouldn't try to remove ANY risks at all?

I don't normally log in and post, just read, but people, listen. Remember when Drapes got his face ran into the boards? You think McCarty WANTED to fight Lemieux before that? Nope. Fighting in hockey is the equalizer. You make a dirty play on the ice, you're going to have to answer the bell.

If you want to get rid of fighting, get rid of all the cheap dirty plays and the players who commit them. That's how you'll get rid of fighting,

Hockey is a sport where team mates look out for each other, that should never change, it's what makes hockey different from every other sport. You know when Lidstorm got ran into the boards, SOMEONE was going to come running to politely object.

No one fighting in hockey is out to injure another person. Evidence the other night in the Habs Leafs game. Parros was hurt, you could tell Colton wanted to immediately HELP his fellow hockey player, not punch him anymore.

Keep hockey hockey.

/rant

In those instances a fight would still happen, just when it was over McCarty would get a game misconduct. The fights that most people use to justify keeping it in the game would still happen. The game misconducts would get rid of enforcers though, who don't play more than 5 minutes a night and only fight other enforcers.

With the settlement that just happened in the NFL its inevitable that fighting will eventually be banned in Hockey. It doesn't matter how the players feel about it, if its going to cost the league hundreds of millions or even billions of dollars in settlements/legal judgements, the league will just make the decision for them.

As many have tried to explain earlier, fighting is NOT part of the game, that would be like arguing slashing, cross checking or hitting from behind is part of the game.

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Repeated trauma to the head, even when no concussion is sustained, can lead to CTE.

When was the last time you saw a sanctioned bare knuckle boxing match?

And there's quite a bit of research going on that substantiates that. Here's one in particular that focused on high school football & hockey players: http://breakingmuscle.com/health-medicine/repeated-small-blows-not-concussion-could-be-the-real-danger-in-high-impact-sports

Edited by ogreslayer

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I'm with him, and I can accept that 95% of fans (or more) think that view is blasphemy and fighting is an essential part of the game. I disagree. I think the vast majority of fights in today's league do nothing to influence the game one way or another, have little/no motive behind them, and are entirely unnecessary. In short I think its a waste of time. Granted, there are fights that mean something; the battles the Wings had against the Avs meant something, and if the bad blood is there in high enough concentrations, I don't think even a game misconduct will prevent two players or teams from fighting. I do think game misconducts will remove the fluff from the ice, and likely remove goons who can't actually play hockey from the game as well, and I am for that. I realize this is a radical view and one that is drastically different from the philosophy that this league developed within over the past 50 years. I just think it is loony to place an event in a game that contributes very little to the overall team goal and has very little actual value over the well-being of an individual.

Sorry LGW for letting you down :(

I totally and wholeheartedly agree with you. Like you said, I understand that other people like it and enjoy it, but if it were removed from the game entirely.....wouldn't bother me none. Being able to land punches while standing on skates isn't a skill one needs to be successful at hockey, and is better suited to a new hybrid sport called "ice boxing." I'd rather watch some Datsyukian dekes than see two grown men pummel the sh*t out of each other at center ice.

I don't really care if that opinion sets me apart from other fans here; I'm not a Red Wings/general hockey fan in order to run with the herd. Sometimes I agree with the consensus, but this time I don't. Whether fighting stays or is legislated out completely, I'm still going to watch and root for the Wings, so it won't matter much to that end.

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