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thegerkin

Steve Yzerman wants Game Misconduct penalties for fighting

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It might take me a day or 2 to find this, but there was a 10 year long study in the minors from 95 through 2005 about what effects attendance more: fighting or winning. by a sizeable margin fighting had a bigger impact. teams that increased their fighting majors had a larger % of increase in attendance than teams that increased their winning %.

here is the study:

Paul, R. J., Weinbach, A. P., & Robbins, D. (2013). American hockey league attendance: A study of fan preferences for fighting, team performance, and promotions. International Journal of Sport Finance, 8(1), 21-38. Retrieved from http://search.proquest.com.ezproxy.gvsu.edu/docview/1315183876?accountid=39473

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Holland himself said the Joe isnsold out in most nights not every night anymore.

It's been that way for some time...I recall going to a game 4, or 5 seasons ago...Got seats from StubHub; paid $65 each, and we were 9 rows up from the ice...Many empty seats that night, but it was on a Tuesday.

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here is the study:

Paul, R. J., Weinbach, A. P., & Robbins, D. (2013). American hockey league attendance: A study of fan preferences for fighting, team performance, and promotions. International Journal of Sport Finance, 8(1), 21-38. Retrieved from http://search.proquest.com.ezproxy.gvsu.edu/docview/1315183876?accountid=39473

Ok, I'll read that when I've got a minute. But just for the record, based on the links I've provided do we at least now agree that more people attended Wings games (on average) last year than in 97-98 when they had their tough guy enforcers?

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Ok, I'll read that when I've got a minute. But just for the record, based on the links I've provided do we at least now agree that more people attended Wings games (on average) last year than in 97-98 when they had their tough guy enforcers?

That's because the Joe has a larger capacity today than what it did back in the late 90's.

19,983 (1996–2000) vs 20,066 (2003–present)

Edited by F.Michael

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That's because the Joe has a larger capacity today than what it did back in the late 90's.

19,983 (1996–2000) vs 20,066 (2003–present)

But you'd agree that based on the numbers, Frank's assertion that "the Joe isn't as packed as it used to be" is probably not accurate, or even remotely true? Which was the whole point I was making to begin with.

Edit: I'd also like to make sure you and I both understanding that yielding this point does not mean that somehow one or the other of us is right about the place of fighting in hockey, but simply that one of us is right when discussing the overall popularity of the NHL, and the Red Wings in general. Conceding that point simply means you see the evidence and believe it, not that you've somehow changed your tune with regard to fighting.

Edited by kipwinger

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But you'd agree that based on the numbers, Frank's assertion that "the Joe isn't as packed as it used to be" is probably not accurate, or even remotely true? Which was the whole point I was making to begin with.

Edit: I'd also like to make sure you and I both understanding that yielding this point does not mean that somehow one or the other of us is right about the place of fighting in hockey, but simply that one of us is right when discussing the overall popularity of the NHL, and the Red Wings in general. Conceding that point simply means you see the evidence and believe it, not that you've somehow changed your tune with regard to fighting.

The Detroit Red Wings in recent times have had a solid fan base since Stevie Y was a young man.

Even though I personally feel a large % of the Wings fan base enjoys a few scraps here, and there (more than what we're seeing now) - the lack of fights apparently has had little to no effect on their overall popularity.

I think having a successful team, multiple Cups, a wonderful owner, smart head office/coaching staff, and a good group of very likeable young men (read no douchebags) who are the heart, and soul of the team bring about the popularity...An exact opposite of the Wings would be the NY Islanders; yeah they've had some tough teams these past 10 years, but haven't done squat.

I enjoy the rougher aspects of NHL hockey as do many other Detroit Red Wing fans; just because we don't have a duplicate of our 97/98 Cup teams doesn't mean I'm less of a fan - just that I have an itch that I'd like scratched.

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There are several things being discussed here.

1. Stevie wants tougher penalties for fighting. never happen.

2. The RW were a much tougher team from 97-2005 than they are now.

3. In general more fans attend games for tough teams, at all levels.

4. RW attendance is hard to track over the last 10 years. The state of Michigan went into a recession in 2002 and has yet to come out of it. Detroit is broke and broken. Hockey tickets are very expensive. heck even in GR were we weathered the economic storms fairly well, the griffins have trouble filling the place, and they won the CC last year. The only time they sell out is on Fridays fro $ beer/dog night. yes watching the griffs play hockey is boring as hell. Muskegon has always been a better place to watch a game.

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Stevie Y can still not sign enforcers and build a soft boring to watch team, so can Rutherford and the other soccer on ice supporting coaches GMs but who the heck they think they are in order to decide how others should be building their teams? I hate to admit it but the Leafs with guys like Orr Mclaren and Frazer are a damn exciting team to watch, even if they lose. Someone already mentioned it, I'd rather watch Leafs versus Habs compared to Detroitredwings against some boring to watch team such as the Rutherford built Hurricanes. When this team was the class of the NHL guys like Koccur, Downie and McCarty also were part of the great hype about this team and now? Skill is diminishing, hits are barely seen and young players have to go through hell in order to get the jobs from long over the hill veterans and yet the anti fighting crowd is still questioning why the interest of fans is going down and the Joe isn't as packed as it used to be? A guy like Downie would have smashed Weber's ugly face through the glass after the Zetterberg incident instead of just getting fined 2,5...

How about because Detroit financially is in dire straits, and fans don't have the money to spend on tickets, parking, and food. Did that ever cross your mind? The fact Joe Louis isn't packed to the rafters has little to do with the "anti-fighting" crowd, or because we don't have a bunch of players on the ice whose sole purpose is braining other players.

This isn't an us vs. them argument.

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How about because Detroit financially is in dire straits, and fans don't have the money to spend on tickets, parking, and food. Did that ever cross your mind? The fact Joe Louis isn't packed to the rafters has little to do with the "anti-fighting" crowd, or because we don't have a bunch of players on the ice whose sole purpose is braining other players.

This isn't an us vs. them argument.

That's an argument I agree with but why are ticket prices, food and parking rising? Because this organization has to pay 20 million alongside with other 9 clubs annually to keep some failed franchises alive and helping them to sign their stud players, although the DetroitRedWings coud need them! These owners are all smart business men so for sure their expenses are just floating into the ticket pricing, without revenue sharing prices would go down.

I think overall it's a combination of a lot of things and personally I'd love to see the Joe packed to the rafters again.

btw. I know understand why Stevo Y is against fighting so this useless idiot Gudas can do a better job of being a rat and not having to answer to the tough guys, I hope he is pulling that stuff against the Mapleleafs, Bruins or Canadiens. If you reduce fighting or ban it that's exactly what will happen and rather see less rats than less great locker room guys that take pride in protecting star players, rookies and guys who can't defend themselves.

Edited by frankgrimes

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Hey, 1975 called, they want their game back. Fighting has been on the decline and the trend will continue. Yzerman, Bowman, Babcock, etc, aren't soft soccer moms, they're well respected hockey icons who know the game and can see the direction it's going in. There's no way the league can continue to say they are serious about concussions and head injuries and continue to allow fighting. So pop in your VHS of Slapshot and reminisce about the good old days because they aren't coming back.

kipwinger likes this

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The avs vs wings was imo the best rivalry in sports, my thoughts are.

The sport is changing to finesse, and the wings were physical last time finesse got popular.

Which is why I believe Eric lindros was in the finals with us.

We had a beautiful mix of skill and grit.

But we transitioned well to finesse from physicality.

and i will never watch another hockey game over the wings,

But were fans of a team looking for an identity right now tohave in the next generation, after pav leaves.

And i have no preference on which game I'm watching, physical or not.

But god I'd love to see the passion the wings showed against the avalanche especially from franzen.

That big body, should be physical.

Which is why I'm most excited about the east.

Once he gets acclimated.

It may make him try.

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A tragic yet relevant news story from yesterday. Maria De Villota, a former reserve driver for Formula 1 team Marussia died aged just 33 yesterday. She suffered severe head injuries during a crash in testing last summer, went to bed on Thursday night complaining of severe headaches and died in the early hours of Friday.

The cause of death has not been officially confirmed beyond "natural causes" - different sources say a stroke or a heart attack - but her family have confirmed that her death is "a consequence of the neurological injuries she suffered"

Food for thought.

Maria-de-Villota-2360149.jpg

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/24505702

Edited by Nev

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A tragic yet relevant news story from yesterday. Maria De Villota, a former reserve driver for Formula 1 team Marussia died aged just 33 yesterday. She suffered severe head injuries during a crash in testing last summer, went to bed on Thursday night complaining of severe headaches and died in the early hours of Friday.

The cause of death has not been officially confirmed beyond "natural causes" - different sources say a stroke or a heart attack - but her family have confirmed that her death is "a consequence of the neurological injuries she suffered"

Food for thought.

Maria-de-Villota-2360149.jpg

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/24505702

I'm just about as much against fighting in hockey as anybody on this forum, but that said I'm not sure that the slow accumulation of head trauma has the same effect as the type of brain trauma suffered in an auto accident. From what I understand it's more of a degenerative effect in the case of hockey, leading to depression, mood swings, substance abuse, etc. I don't think hockey players are likely to die in their sleep after a hard hit or particularly gruesome fight. Then again, I'm no doctor so I could be totally off base here.

Edited by kipwinger

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The accident was 15 months ago though.

Yeah I understand that, I guess I'm not explaining my line of thought clearly. It sounds like this lady had a one time, very heavy, trauma to the head, and as a result of the injury abruptly died in her sleep a year later. Conversely, with hockey players (or boxers) it is the accumulation of years and years of less serious trauma that causes the degenerative conditions I spoke of before. You don't hear of hockey players dying in their sleep, they die of substance abuse, or suicide, because they're battling serious psychological impairments which are no doubt caused by the repeated hits to the head over the course of their careers.

I'm not trying to suggest that they aren't both the result of head trauma, but simply that the severity of the hit was noticeably different in each case. But again, I'm not a doctor so maybe this lady died as a result of complications similar to those of recently deceased hockey players (and nobody is saying it). Also, maybe hockey players would abruptly die in their sleep too if they were getting hit with the same impact that a racecar driver hits a wall. Certainly, Scott Stevens tried.

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