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Guest blueadams

I'd like to talk about this off-season/next season

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Sounds like he is getting frustrated with all the players sitting out. Wonder if he thinks some are mailing it in ?

ie...Helm.

if its a choice between Tatar or Nyquist....keeping Tatar. I'd like to keep both, but if one has to go...

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Here's where I'm at right now. It's a major pipe dream, but it's my major pipe dream.

We need at least two big acquisitions, IMHO. Currently my heart is set on Blake Wheeler, Matt Moulson, and Dan Girardi. Wheeler will have to be a trade, of course. I think Cheveldayoff might take a package built around Franzen and Nyquist. Actually, Franzen and Nyquist might/should be enough to get it done. If not, then maybe Franzen and Nyquist and Andersson. If not, maybe make Andersson a first-round pick. I dunno. Point is, I want Wheeler on this team. I've wanted him on this team for a long time. Get it done.

I guess Moulson and Girardi are, ideally, UFA signings. If we trade for one of them this season, Girardi makes more sense, given our needs on the blue line. Smith would probably have to go the other way, and we'd need to clear some cap space, so Quincey is pretty much a must. If we save the first-round pick from the Wheeler deal (so...Franzen + Nyquist + Andersson, or somewhere thereabouts), that could give us something like Smith + Quincey + a first-round pick, which is fairly solid, if not an overpayment. I'd be really reluctant to move Smith for an expiring contract, though. I'd want some kind of gentleman's agreement that Girardi would re-sign. Not that that would mean anything, but this is all fantasy anyway, so whatever.

That leaves Moulson. Holland could swing one big UFA signing, right? Especially with our whole "We believe in guys who other people don't necessarily believe in" thing, and our "We believe in family and loyalty" thing. Moulson would be all like, "Hot damn! It's about time someone tried to sell me on those lines!"

So, boom. We now have Wheeler, Moulson, Girardi. (Stop laughing.)

Alfredsson returns. Ideally, he takes a hometown discount. Gustavsson also returns. Tootoo gets bought out. Jurco and Sheahan make the team out of training camp. I kinda wanna keep Bert, if only because of his size (we'd be a very smallish team even with him in the ranks), but I think it's about time we parted ways. He'd have to play in the bottom six (we're adding Wheeler and Moulson and keeping Alfredsson), and I just don't know if he's gonna be all that effective in a checking/energy role.

Speaking of roles, what to do with the aforementioned Jurco? One juicy option: stick him right on the first line with Datsyuk and Zetterberg.

Henrik Zetterberg Pavel Datsyuk Tomas Jurco

Matt Moulson Stephen Weiss Blake Wheeler

Tomas Tatar Darren Helm Daniel Alfredsson

Drew Miller Riley Sheahan Justin Abdelkader

I really like those lines, and also these:

Henrik Zetterberg Pavel Datsyuk Blake Wheeler

Matt Moulson Stephen Weiss Daniel Alfredsson

Tomas Tatar Darren Helm Tomas Jurco

Drew Miller Riley Sheahan Justin Abdelkader

I think I ever so slightly prefer the first look, because it gives us three solid scoring lines. And, come on, Jurco with Z and D? Euro Twins Triplets! Also, I kinda like that we'd have an all-European scoring line and an all-North American one. So let's go with that.

YOUR 2014-2015 DETROIT RED WINGS

Henrik Zetterberg Pavel Datsyuk Tomas Jurco

Matt Moulson Stephen Weiss Blake Wheeler

Tomas Tatar Darren Helm Daniel Alfredsson

Drew Miller Riley Sheahan Justin Abdelkader

Ferraro, Glendening, Callahan

Niklas Kronwall Jonathan Ericsson

Danny DeKeyser Dan Girardi

Jakub Kindl Brian Lashoff

Almqvist

Jimmy Howard

Gustavsson

So that's where I am right now. I guess it's essentially swapping Franzen, Nyquist, and Smith with Wheeler, Moulson, and Girardi. Sound stupid and unrealistic? It is. And I love it.

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YOUR 2014-2015 DETROIT RED WINGS

Henrik Zetterberg Pavel Datsyuk Tomas Jurco

Matt Moulson Stephen Weiss Blake Wheeler

Tomas Tatar Darren Helm Daniel Alfredsson

Drew Miller Riley Sheahan Justin Abdelkader

Ferraro, Glendening, Callahan

Niklas Kronwall Jonathan Ericsson
Danny DeKeyser Dan Girardi
Jakub Kindl Brian Lashoff
Almqvist
Jimmy Howard
Gustavsson

This would be over the cap limit for sure. With Moulson, Girardi coming as expensive UFA's and Wheeler coming in at a 5.6mill cap hit. Alfie wouldn't be any less than 5. Deke, Tatar get raises. Trading Smith for an aging UFA on the decline is not a good idea - Smith should be moved for someone of similar age that plays RHD if anything - Girardi plays the kind of game that doesn't age well and he is already showing it this season.

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This would be over the cap limit for sure. With Moulson, Girardi coming as expensive UFA's and Wheeler coming in at a 5.6mill cap hit. Alfie wouldn't be any less than 5. Deke, Tatar get raises. Trading Smith for an aging UFA on the decline is not a good idea - Smith should be moved for someone of similar age that plays RHD if anything - Girardi plays the kind of game that doesn't age well and he is already showing it this season.

I'll be working out the cap issues on CapGeek then I'll be posting what I come up with. That's the next phase. At the moment, though, I don't feel like what I've put together would be way over the cap, if over it at all. Franzen, Quincey, Bertuzzi, Cleary, Samuelsson, Tootoo, Eaves would all be coming off the books, and the cap should be going up. Alfie won't play for peanuts, but he might accept 4 or 4.5. Not that I feel it'd be necessary for him to take a discount.

As for Smith/Girardi...

Girardi is 29, right-handed, a top-pairing talent, can log insane minutes, can play in every situation, can move the puck well, plays through injuries, etc. But you'll notice I have him on the second pairing. That basically mean he has to be better than Quincey. Point being, a not-quite-what-he-was-a-couple-seasons-ago Girardi is fine by me. You make it sound like he's a 35-year-old with little left in the tank. True, he's had a rough go of it over the past year or so, but players have rough stretches, and often it doesn't just boil down to "Well, he sucks now. It's too bad cuz he used to be good" (e.g. maybe the new coach's system doesn't suit him, maybe he's unhappy in NY, maybe he's just having an off season, maybe he needs a change of scenery). But even if he's not quite what he once was (again, though, he's 29, not 43), I'm not counting on him being a Norris candidate. I just want a solid top four.

Smith - like I said, I'm not keen on losing him. But for Girardi, and with the youth we have in the pipeline (Ouellet, Sproul, Marchenko, et al.)? I'd do it. Because it's the Cup.

Edited by Dabura

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Guest Playmaker   
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Tootoo still has another year on his contract, unless he's bought out.

No one is going to take Franzen with his contract and concussion/mental health issues.

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That youth in the pipeline needs to be incorporated for good next season..would rather have Sproul and Ouelette as the third pairing next year and can use the extra players as trade bait such as Kindl and Lashoff

So you're just changing our third pairing? Does that really help our blue line woes? Lashoff is one of our steadier defensemen, is a pretty solid #6. Basically, he's our stay-at-home depth guy. (Every team needs a stay-at-home depth guy.) Packaging Kindl and Lashoff might fetch us a decent draft pick, but I don't really see what the motivation would be. Getting the kids up ahead of schedule? I guess I can understand that, given the extremely short window of opportunity we have left with our aging core. But I feel like it'd make a lot more sense to try to give ourselves an actual top four in the here and now and give Ouellet and Sproul and all the kids the time they need to develop properly.

Tootoo still has another year on his contract, unless he's bought out.

No one is going to take Franzen with his contract and concussion/mental health issues.

I dunno if the first part was directed at me. I think Tootoo should be bought out. As for Franzen: probably not, but you never know. He's still a big-bodied top-six winger who's good for around 20 goals. Before he went out with these most recent troubles, he was playing almost like the Mule of old. Clutch, dominant. I think there are teams that would take him.

Edited by Dabura

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Sproul and Ouelette are ready

Top 4 is set for the next few years unless they trade Smith

Our top four is not set. We barely even have a top four. Even Holland agrees. (He's in the market for a top-four defenseman.) Kronwall, Ericsson, DeKeyser, Smith is not going to win a Cup. Maybe several years from now, but by that point our core will be ancient. And maybe if we could score at will, but we can't. So we'd have a very iffy top four, and our third pairing would be Ouellet (who may or may not be read) and Sproul (who may or may not be ready). I like your faith in our youth, but I want a Stanely Cup next season.

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I'm not saying my roster is perfect. But I feel it could go toe-to-toe with any team in the league, in a best-of-seven. That's what I think we need to go for while we still have Datsyuk and before Zetterberg's back crumbles and before Kronwall really slows down and softens up. A team that is ruthlessly good, as good as Holland can possibly make it. A team that's much better than what we think would be acceptable, because that's what it's going to take to knock off a powerhouse like the Penguins or Blackhawks or Blues or Sharks.

Say we go with Kronwall-Ericsson-DeKeyser-Smith-Ouellet-Sproul. What happens if we get hit with injuries? What if we lose Kronwall? What if we lose Ericsson and DeKeyser? It's not gonna cut it.

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I could see a lot of teams interested in Abby at the deadline

Sounds like he is getting frustrated with all the players sitting out. Wonder if he thinks some are mailing it in ?

I'm getting that impression. Guarantee you Franzen plays a couple games to get ready for the Olympics then lights it up. Helm has had a tweaked groin for four weeks

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Guest mjtm77   
Guest mjtm77

Sproul and Ouelette are ready

Top 4 is set for the next few years unless they trade Smith

I'm sorry but do u even watch? Sproul is the furthest thing from ready

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I'm sorry but do u even watch? Sproul is the furthest thing from ready

do you? He's already better than Quincey and by next season he'll be better than Lashoff

Our top four is not set. We barely even have a top four. Even Holland agrees. (He's in the market for a top-four defenseman.) Kronwall, Ericsson, DeKeyser, Smith is not going to win a Cup. Maybe several years from now, but by that point our core will be ancient. And maybe if we could score at will, but we can't. So we'd have a very iffy top four, and our third pairing would be Ouellet (who may or may not be read) and Sproul (who may or may not be ready). I like your faith in our youth, but I want a Stanely Cup next season.

good luck to him finding someone who is top 4 with no cap room

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do you? He's already better than Quincey and by next season he'll be better than Lashoff

good luck to him finding someone who is top 4 with no cap room

First of all, Lashoff and Sproul are different kinds of defenseman. Sproul is an offensive defenseman, a PP quarterback. Lashoff is a defensive defenseman, a stay-at-home crease-clearer. You need a guy like Lashoff on your blue line. Often he'll be your #5, #6, or #7. That's what Lashoff is for us now. He's been doing what he's asked to do. He's also become a pretty solid PKer. So now we're going to replace him with a not-quite-ready, still-rough-around-the-edges, offensive-minded defenseman? Why not just keep Lashoff and let Sproul continue to develop? Then, when he's truly ready, he can step in and be one of those high-scoring defensemen who seem to come out of nowhere and take the league by storm, e.g. Karlsson.

As for finding a top-four defenseman who fits in cap-wise, I already did: Dan Girardi. His current cap hit is 3.325. Quincey's is 3.775. Like I said, we'd be moving Quincey for Girardi. In the summer, he'll command something around 5. Like I said, a lot of money will be coming off our books, and the cap should be going up. And if not Girardi, then someone else. Maybe Alex Edler. Either one would give us a solid top-four.

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First of all, Lashoff and Sproul are different kinds of defenseman. Sproul is an offensive defenseman, a PP quarterback. Lashoff is a defensive defenseman, a stay-at-home crease-clearer. You need a guy like Lashoff on your blue line. Often he'll be your #5, #6, or #7. That's what Lashoff is for us now. He's been doing what he's asked to do. He's also become a pretty solid PKer. So now we're going to replace him with a not-quite-ready, still-rough-around-the-edges, offensive-minded defenseman? Why not just keep Lashoff and let Sproul continue to develop? Then, when he's truly ready, he can step in and be one of those high-scoring defensemen who seem to come out of nowhere and take the league by storm, e.g. Karlsson.

As for finding a top-four defenseman who fits in cap-wise, I already did: Dan Girardi. His current cap hit is 3.325. Quincey's is 3.775. Like I said, we'd be moving Quincey for Girardi. In the summer, he'll command something around 5. Like I said, a lot of money will be coming off our books, and the cap should be going up. And if not Girardi, then someone else. Maybe Alex Edler. Either one would give us a solid top-four.

that's fine for the offseason but how are you gonna fit him in the lineup NOW? You're not

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First of all, Lashoff and Sproul are different kinds of defenseman. Sproul is an offensive defenseman, a PP quarterback. Lashoff is a defensive defenseman, a stay-at-home crease-clearer. You need a guy like Lashoff on your blue line. Often he'll be your #5, #6, or #7. That's what Lashoff is for us now. He's been doing what he's asked to do. He's also become a pretty solid PKer. So now we're going to replace him with a not-quite-ready, still-rough-around-the-edges, offensive-minded defenseman? Why not just keep Lashoff and let Sproul continue to develop? Then, when he's truly ready, he can step in and be one of those high-scoring defensemen who seem to come out of nowhere and take the league by storm, e.g. Karlsson.

As for finding a top-four defenseman who fits in cap-wise, I already did: Dan Girardi. His current cap hit is 3.325. Quincey's is 3.775. Like I said, we'd be moving Quincey for Girardi. In the summer, he'll command something around 5. Like I said, a lot of money will be coming off our books, and the cap should be going up. And if not Girardi, then someone else. Maybe Alex Edler. Either one would give us a solid top-four.

Come on, man. The NYR Rangers are going to trade Girardi for Quincey? Maybe they'll trade King Henrik for Thomas McCollum? Or Samuelsson for Rick Nash?

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Come on, man. The NYR Rangers are going to trade Girardi for Quincey? Maybe they'll trade King Henrik for Thomas McCollum? Or Samuelsson for Rick Nash?

Quincey + Smith + a first-round pick. Or something along those lines. I laid this out in my long post on the previous page.

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Given the cap situation minus a minor move this is gonna be the team at the end of the season. I don't see how Holland is gonna trade for anyone of significance...offseason will be a different story once the deadweight is gone

Quincey + Smith + a first-round pick. Or something along those lines. I laid this out in my long post on the previous page.

never happen

Come on, man. The NYR Rangers are going to trade Girardi for Quincey? Maybe they'll trade King Henrik for Thomas McCollum? Or Samuelsson for Rick Nash?

Franzen...Quincey...Smith plus a 1st for Girardi and Calahan might get it done Edited by PumpkinEscobar

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Given the cap situation minus a minor move this is gonna be the team at the end of the season. I don't see how Holland is gonna trade for anyone of significance...offseason will be a different story once the deadweight is gone

never happen

Franzen...Quincey...Smith plus a 1st for Girardi and Calahan might get it done

Okay, so the Rangers are going to take on a contract of a 34 year old guy with a history of concussions and possible mental health issues with a contract for another 6 seasons at 4 million because??? Why would the Wings take 2 rentals for a season that's pretty much lost for the only semi decent young defenseman in Smith and a pick the Wings need. The Rangers are on fire right now. Unless they think they have zero chance to do anything in the playoffs, which doesn't make sense, I can't see them in a big hurry to trade Girardi.

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I'm not saying I think this will happen. I've even said my ideas are unrealistic.

I realize that we're having the sort of conversation where pretty much anything I say is going to be shot down, because, like, totally never gonna happen, man, because, like, they would totally never do that. But let's try to have an open mind about it (and I'll do the same about your ideas). Is it so ridiculous to think that we might be able to acquire Girardi this season? It really isn't. Maybe Quincey + Smith + a first-round pick wouldn't get it done - but I never said it had to be those three pieces. If Holland were to make up his mind that Girardi was the one and only guy he wanted to target and he really wanted to make it happen, I think he could get it done. We have prospects. We have draft pics. We have some attractive roster players. It could be done. Disagreeing with that is disagreeing for the sake of disagreeing. I mean, no, we're not going to be able to land Wheeler and Girardi, but I already conceded that in my proposal. I'm not going for hyper-realism, things that I think will happen. I'm mostly throwing ideas against the wall and seeing what sticks.

Going back to your idea, Pumpkin, I actually like the thought of Smith and Ouellet and Sproul all sharing a blue line. I just don't think that's gonna cut it next season, if the Cup is the goal. Sproul is doing pretty well for himself in the AHL, but I don't think he's ready for full-time NHL duty (if the Cup is the goal). And Smith will be really good in a few seasons, but I don't think I want him in our top four next season (if the Cup is the goal), unless we're adding a solid top-four defenseman to our top four and maybe pairing him with Smith. I realize that would seem to go against my pitch for Girardi. If I don't want him in my top four, why would Sather want him as a return for one of his better defensemen? Mainly, I think the depth of the Rangers' blue line is why he might do it. They have a very strong D corps. They can afford to wait for Smith to become a top-pairing defenseman. Us? Not so much, IMHO.

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Okay, so the Rangers are going to take on a contract of a 34 year old guy with a history of concussions and possible mental health issues with a contract for another 6 seasons at 4 million because??? Why would the Wings take 2 rentals for a season that's pretty much lost for the only semi decent young defenseman in Smith and a pick the Wings need. The Rangers are on fire right now. Unless they think they have zero chance to do anything in the playoffs, which doesn't make sense, I can't see them in a big hurry to trade Girardi.

it was sarcasm

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