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Guest blueadams

I'd like to talk about this off-season/next season

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Girardi is a shutdown defenseman who can move the puck well. He can log silly-big minutes, play in all situations, block shots like a machine, and be a solid leader. In theory, he'd complement Kronwall or Smith very nicely. At the very least, he'd give us a good top four. Ouellet projects high, and he might actually end up being a lot like Girardi. But, as always, I'm thinking about a Cup, and within the next two seasons (our core is old; our window is closing). Ouellet might not even make the team next fall, and if he does, it's very likely he'd be on the third pairing. That's a far cry from what Girardi could give us in the here and now.

Same idea with the two Callahans. Except, I'm not sold on Mitchell being anything more than an NHL fourth-line agitator who pots a goal here and there. (Yes, I know, he's scoring in Grand Rapids. But that doesn't impress me a whole lot.) Callahan could play on the first line and give us some more speed and tenacity and all-around grit, kind of like Helm, but he can play in a scoring role. My only concern with him is that he's injury prone. He's not big, so his style of play means he's not going to be highly effective for much longer, unless he becomes a great two-way player or something. Still, anyone who wants the Cup and thinks Mitchell can help the cause about as much as Ryan would is being a Wings homer. I get not wanting to spend money, but come on.

Not that we're getting Girardi or Callahan, never mind both. But if you're gonna dream, might as well dream big.


They would be affordable, needed, and adequately used if these trades were made.

For the record, I'm not sure we should trade for either of them. But we should definitely pursue them in the summer, assuming they test the waters.

Edited by Dabura
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When people mention Heatley as a UFA target I honestly can't tell if they're serious or sarcastic or trolling or what....

Oh god, definitely being sarcastic! He's a shell of his former self. We had just exchanged some extended dialogue about other UFA options and this comment was meant more as sarcastic exasperation in the lack of options (Heatley epitomizing that reality).

Detroit could be big players. They will look in-house for a lot of their holes, which lowers their payroll. We can afford to massively overlay for a player, at least on a short-term contract. Trouble will be: will UFA's accept a 2 or 3 year contract?

I do agree that if many of Detroit's own UFAs are allowed to walk, they will be active to bring in some depth. Though it is a rebuild, they will want to be competitive.

I recently read comments from Vanek where he spoke about money and term being the biggest concerns for him. And so I wouldn't be surprised to see the Islanders throw big money and term at him.

It's hard to imagine that some team won't offer a longer term to guys like Moulson, Callahan, Girardi, etc., if these guys go to free agency. This is why I was suggesting earlier in this thread that more depth guys (e.g. Kulemin, Setoguchi) might be worth a look as they would be more likely to consider short-term deals, and if they don't work out, you aren't stuck with them for too long.

I watched a clip on sportsnet where they talked about Steve Ott possibly being a deadline acquisition for Detroit, among others. http://kuklaskorner.com/hockey/comments/video-will-steve-ott-be-moved-if-so-where

He's a guy I could imagine Detroit acquiring (if he could be had for a pick and/or lesser prospect) and trying to keep around.

Assuming they do let Bertuzzi walk, I think they will try to get someone with some size and, ideally, who play with a bit of an edge and who are capable of adding some scoring depth.

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Would Steve Ott Be A Fit In Detroit? (Abel to Yzerman, Sportsnet)

As I've said several times before, I'd be all for bringing Ott on board, for the right price. He's not big, and he's not a goal-scorer, but he plays kinda like a pissed off power forward. He'd give our bottom six some teeth, moxy, heart. And, with our injury "luck," we really can't have too many centers (though he can play any forward position, which is cool).

Generally, I'm a bit wary of deadline deals for expiring contracts, unless your team is a stacked contender and you're looking for one solid piece to put you over. But I don't think we'd have to give up much for Ott, and I kinda get the sense that he's a guy who likes wherever he is (i.e. if he becomes a Wing, he leans toward staying a Wing), so it might be worth getting him this season.

Of course, a Steve Ott wouldn't address our most glaring issue: our top four, or lack thereof.

Unrelated: I'm worried about Nyquist. It's occurred to me that he may not be the top-six scoring winger we think he is/will be, and not just because of this slump. I'm mentioning this because I, like kipwinger and some others here, think he could make a fairly attractive trade piece. That sounds incredibly cold and heartless, but it's the Cup.


EDIT: Ah, didn't see your post, larionov_8. Sorry!

Edited by Dabura

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If Holland were to cut loose all our (in)appropriate UFAs in the summer and go into next season with Ott, Moulson, and Girardi in our ranks...I think I would cry.

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Assuming they do let Bertuzzi walk, I think they will try to get someone with some size and, ideally, who play with a bit of an edge and who are capable of adding some scoring depth.

Dustin Penner will almost certainly stay in Anaheim, but he'd be great on a line with Z and D, or in a secondary role, or even as a checker. David Moss might also work.

Maybe this is the summer we add Jagr? Never been a fan of the idea, but he's doing pretty damn well for himself in NJ, and he'd bring some nice qualities (big and strong, plays RW, has been a reliable goal-scorer this season, can hold the puck very well, is hungry for that last Cup).

I guess none of those guys plays with a real "edge" like what you'd get from Ott, but I'm mostly just brainstorming out loud.

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Penner will stay in Cali. Bank on it. Would look good in Red though.

Moss kind of injury prone, in the same way that a lot of current roster is.

No to Jagr.

Don't get me wrong, Ott would be great. However, we already have Tootoo... and he's highly underutilized

So... why would Ott be targeted by Holland? Would Babcock use him?

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a lot of good things can happen if they let sammy, cleary, bert, quincey, monster go.

you can get gaborik moulson ott and garardi, while resigning tatar and dekeyser and bringing up mrazak

i think we really need a top defender or atleast a top shut down guy that can log big minutes give guys like kronwall and smith time to play offense.

then you can compliment z and dats with moulson or gabroik or both if the price is right. sure gabby is hurt a lot but id take him for the right price.

then i think we need a grit guy like ott/ callahan type. grit power forward PKer stand up for their team.

do i see any of this actually happening? no. id be shocked if he didnt resign cleary bert and quincey

Z dats gabby

mule weiss moulson

nyquist helm tatar

abs ott andy

kronwall E

garadi smith

dekeyser kindl

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Penner will stay in Cali. Bank on it. Would look good in Red though.

Moss kind of injury prone, in the same way that a lot of current roster is.

No to Jagr.

Don't get me wrong, Ott would be great. However, we already have Tootoo... and he's highly underutilized

So... why would Ott be targeted by Holland? Would Babcock use him?

I agree that Penner will likely stay in California. He's playing his best hockey again with the Ducks and he seems to love the life there. Agree also on Jagr.

As for Ott, I can't stand the guy but he and Tootoo aren't equivalent. Ott can play the PP, PK and handle a lot more minutes than Tootoo without being a defensive liability.

ugh. I feel nauseous saying nice things about Ott.

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Lol some of u guys r crazy ! This is the NHL. Not NHL 14. And if it was NHL 14 allot of you would make some bone head decisions lol!

As for mule he is here to stay. Maybe if he can't produce on the second line try playing him with z and d where he can get open and shoot. That's up to babs and co and the planning they do

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My wish list is Steve Ott Dan gurardi mdz Wayne Simmons

Girardi, Ott, Westgarth would be a great Ufa day

Buyout Mule or Weiss to create more capspace

Edited by frankgrimes
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Penner will stay in Cali. Bank on it. Would look good in Red though.

Moss kind of injury prone, in the same way that a lot of current roster is.

No to Jagr.

Don't get me wrong, Ott would be great. However, we already have Tootoo... and he's highly underutilized

So... why would Ott be targeted by Holland? Would Babcock use him?

Not necessarily saying I think we should or would even be able to add any of the first three, mind you. Just trying to pull something out of a very thin UFA class, as opposed to saying, "Let's stick with what we've got, bring up a couple of kids." Because that's boring, and I come here to shoot down boredom.

As for Ott - as haroldsnepsts said, he's more useful than Tootoo. And he's good for about 30 points, versus Tooto's 8 (granted, Tootoo might be good for 15+ if Babs would actually use him). He'd be targeted by Holland for those reasons, and the fact that we are, arguably, a bit shallow at center, and the fact that we are incredibly soft on the whole; virtually no one on our team plays with a true edge. I think Babcock would use him for all these reasons. He's a good, reliable bottom-sixer (on a pretty good club, as opposed to a team like Buffalo, where's he's a first-line center).

Also, the NHL 14 comment is played-out, IMHO. A far-out idea isn't necessarily an in(s)ane one - and even if it is, so what? No one saw Alfredsson coming. And I remember writing up this big, long, detail-oriented piece about how we could fit Hossa in, and why it would make a lot off sense - and I got a few "This is real life, not a video game" responses. But, as we all know, it happened, and almost exactly the way I said it might. Point being, I'm Darren Dreger. Furthermore, this is Ken Holland. He did sign Weiss and Alfie; and throw down a huge offer for Suter and Parise; and try for Carle, Salo, and Edler (coming very close with Edler); and trade for Robert Lang; and put together the '02 dream team; and acquire Chelios, Clark, Ranford, and Samuelsson; and bring in Shanahan. Granted, there's pre-Cap stuff mixed in there, and no one really cares about Robert Lang, and, generally, a lot has changed since most of those past accomplishments. But we have some big holes to fill, and Holland knows it. He also knows he screwed up. And, of course, we'll have a number of contracts coming off the books. So I don't think it's wrong to hope for a couple really big adds.

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i dont think we'll see any deals before this deadline. front office will just let the ufa's on our roster run out and let them all hit free agency. maybe they ask Alfie back and an outside possability they give monster another year but the rest will be let go.This would free up $12m. I think they will go after 2 Ufa's or trades to fill

Quincey and Bertuzzi spots. The other 3 spots will be filled from within.

Gustavsson resign or give Mrazek the back up job.

Quincey let go sign free agent or trade to upgrade.

Alfredsson resign if he wants to stay or sign replacement from fa or trade.

Bertuzzi let go sign free agent to replace.

Samuelsson let go Jurco to take spot.

Cleary let go Sheahan to take spot.

Eaves let go Glendening to take spot.

This scenario isnt my choice but its what i believe the front office will do.

This leaves Tootoo in limbo, they will try and trade him or use him in a package

but we have a few young players who are out of option's as well. Almqvist and

Ferraro the most notable. So we are going to see some movement one way or

another.

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again, all this UFA signing talk is fun, but what do you do with the kids that are out of waiver exemptions? Jurco and Glendening will NOT be on the roster opening day because they have exemptions left and will certainly start the season in GR because they can. Sheahan, Ferraro, Callahan and Almqvist all need to pass through waivers to be sent to GR to start the season. Unless there is a trade made moving some of these guys out of town, they will be on the roster come October or you will most certainly lose one if not all of them for nothing...Sheahan is a no brainer since he has been the one seeing all the NHL duty, Ferraro, for all intents and purposes, was a 1st round draft pick, Almqvist shows potential and Callahan is still in their top 25 prospects list. You don't want to waste draft talent like that, especially since you have been developing them since day 1. I say outside of a trade for a scorer and a top 2 defender, Holland goes all in house next season. You just cannot afford to lose these guys you have invested so much time in. It's not like any of them fell of the radar either. I could see if they were draft busts and just fell of the list of potential NHL players, but these four are all right there in their top pool. There are others out of exemptions but I am not sure how they factor into the Wings plans, since none of them are in the top 25 prospect pool; Coetzee, Aubry, Nestrasil, Parkes, Fournier and Emmerton...

You cannot just replace Sammy, Bertuzzi, Eaves and Cleary with UFA signings, you have 4 kids that are in your top prospect pool that need to be decided on. Be on the Wings, get traded or lose for nothing to waivers...

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I hope tootoo is on the wings next year actually playing or bought out or traded so he can actually play

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I guess if the players who are "out of options" must pass through waivers to start the season, that does cause some issues. I had been thinking of a situation like Nyquist's, where he stayed in the minors to start the season before he was called up, but I guess technically he wasn't out of options at that time.

A roster with all of those players included would look like:

Z - Dats - Mule
Abdelkader - Weiss - Tatar
Miller - Helm - Nyquist
Sheahan - Andersson - Tootoo
Ferraro - Callahan

Kronwall - Ericsson
Dekeyser - Smith
Lashoff - Kindl
Almquist

Howie
Mrazek


Based on recent history I would be suprised to see the Wings not spend that 16 million dollars in potential cap space, in favour of letting two kids (M Callahan, Ferraro) and/or Tootoo sit on the bench. Makes me think:
1. Tootoo buy out may be more likely than I thought before, given that roster space, not cap space, may be their biggest issue, and they hopefully would not put him in the AHL for another full season
2. Wouldn't be surprised to see one of Almquist, Ferraro or Callahan included, if the Wings actually make some kind of trade.
3. The Wings will retain/sign a backup with NHL experience rather than turning the roll over the Mrazek before needed

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Thing is Iggy, even though they will have around $16M give or take that they could use to acquire a UFA, there are roster limits to deal with. Right now you sit at 23, I am not sure if the limit is 23 or 24...

the thing is also, I really don't see Tootoo being on this roster next season either (unfortunately.) They have already shown they will waive him with no worry if they lose him, so they will probably do that again to make sure they have room for a UFA or even if Glendening or Jurco are to be on the opening roster. Those two have exemptions, so going with Holland's history, they will start the year in GR just because they can...

Edited by LeftWinger

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I saw a pretty interesting scenario over on HF and it was:

Adam Larsson for B. Smith, T. Tatar, 1st 2014

I think this is more than fair value if not overpayment from the Wings. Larsson is the RH top pairing guy for the future we need and we don't NEED the 1st or Tatar in coming years with the prospect pool we currently have.

If we could then sign one of Callahan, Vanek, Moulson to fill out the roster we could be very deep next year.

CAPGEEK.COM ARMCHAIR GM ROSTER
CapGeek Armchair GM Roster
FORWARDS
Henrik Zetterberg ($6.083m) / Pavel Datsyuk ($7.500m) / Daniel Alfredsson ($5.500m)
Gustav Nyquist ($0.950m) / Stephen Weiss ($4.900m) / Ryan Callahan ($5.500m)
Justin Abdelkader ($1.800m) / Darren Helm ($2.125m) / Johan Franzen ($3.955m)
Drew Miller ($1.350m) / Riley Sheahan ($0.900m) / Landon Ferraro ($0.800m)
Joakim Andersson ($0.733m) / Luke Glendening ($0.800m) /
DEFENSEMEN
Niklas Kronwall ($4.750m) / Adam Larsson ($2.000m)
Jonathan Ericsson ($4.250m) / Danny DeKeyser ($2.000m)
Jakub Kindl ($2.400m) / Brian Lashoff ($0.725m)
Adam Almquist ($0.800m) /
GOALTENDERS
Jimmy Howard ($5.292m)
Evgeni Nabokov ($1.000m)
BUYOUTS
Carlo Colaiacovo ($0.000m)
Jordin Tootoo ($0.000m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(estimations for 2014-15)
SALARY CAP: $71,100,000; CAP PAYROLL: $66,112,045; BONUSES: $0
CAP SPACE (23-man roster): $4,987,955

There is room to play with the cap hits a bit. I think Alfie plays one more year then we see Jurco in the top 6 full-time and after next season we see Ouellet + Sproul as our 3rd pairing replacing Kindl and Lashoff (giving us more RH balance on D).

What do you guys think of that trade? It hurts to lose Smith and Tatar cause I love them but I think the team has more balance overall for years to come.

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I wouldn't make that trade, personally. I feel like we could fill the defensive hole without giving up both one of our brightest young defensemen and one of our brightest young goal-scorers (who's currently on pace for a 20-goal rookie season, all with somewhat limited ice time and line mates and physical stature). And that's saying nothing of the way Tatar's been kinda jerked around (not Holland's style, generally. He'll probably want to make it up to him, or, at the very least, not show him the door and earn a lifelong enemy), and now with his father's passing...I don't think he gets moved for anything less than an all-star. Which is to say, I don't think he gets moved.

I love Tatar. He's got teeth. I'd be more willing to move Nyquist.

Edited by Dabura

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When all players are healthy we all of a sudden have a surplus of centers. Datsyuk, weiss, helm, andy, sheahan, ferraro, emmerton.... i wonder how it will play out. I still feel like this team needs wingers most importantly.

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