10/22 Drinking Game: Every Time the Wings Don't Score, Take a Shot GDT - Canucks @ Red Wings - 7:30 PM EST

[krsmith17 7,191]

9 minutes ago, Mckinley25 said:

If Zadina was playing against the Wings he may have gotten two points as well.  

Yup, and if the Red Wings drafted Hughes and the Canucks drafted Zadina, Hughes would still be in Grand Rapids and Zadina likely full time in Vancouver...

[F.Michael 4,590]

2 hours ago, Dabura said:

Lafreniere - Veleno - Mantha. The Baguette Line.

 

[F.Michael 4,590]

2 hours ago, Dabura said:

I think he'll own it. We had a bad team and he added Filppula and Nemeth. Didn't exactly do Blashill any favors.

Besides, who replaces Blashill? If it's internal, that's Bylsma, and that's a big nope from me. Externally? I feel like there's basically nothing out there right now.

Yeah...But...Disco Dan won the Cup...WTF has Blashill ever done??!!

[The 91 of Ryans 3,019]

I know he scored last night but is Cholowski going to really be any good?

Is Svechnikov?

Zadina? 

Veleno? 

Rasmussen? 

Maybe all we've gotten from the last 4 drafts will only add up to be Hronek and Seider. 

Am I crazy for feeling this way? 

 

[Dabura 12,232]

15 minutes ago, F.Michael said:

 

Not sure if blessed or cursed.

4 minutes ago, The 91 of Ryans said:

I know he scored last night but is Cholowski going to really be any good?

Is Svechnikov?

Zadina? 

Veleno? 

Rasmussen? 

Maybe all we've gotten from the last 4 drafts will only add up to be Hronek and Seider. 

Am I crazy for feeling this way?

Not crazy at all. It's a legit concern.

Time will tell...

[F.Michael 4,590]

2 minutes ago, The 91 of Ryans said:

I know he scored last night but is Cholowski going to really be any good?

Is Svechnikov?

Zadina? 

Veleno? 

Rasmussen? 

Maybe all we've gotten from the last 4 drafts will only add up to be Hronek and Seider. 

Am I crazy for feeling this way? 

 

To be honest - there's so many variables - hard to say.

Coaching - some are better than others - look at what Berube accomplished last season.

Players - drafted at 18 yrs of age - who knows what they'll be at 23 to 30?

GMs - like coaching - some have a knack for finding talent - sometimes it's luck - sometimes they make dumb moves (Chiarelli) - sometimes they're sharp (Yzerman).

For me it can be a crapshoot.

[The 91 of Ryans 3,019]

10 minutes ago, Dabura said:

Not sure if blessed or cursed.

Not crazy at all. It's a legit concern.

Time will tell...

 

6 minutes ago, F.Michael said:

To be honest - there's so many variables - hard to say.

Coaching - some are better than others - look at what Berube accomplished last season.

Players - drafted at 18 yrs of age - who knows what they'll be at 23 to 30?

GMs - like coaching - some have a knack for finding talent - sometimes it's luck - sometimes they make dumb moves (Chiarelli) - sometimes they're sharp (Yzerman).

For me it can be a crapshoot.

Other than the 2013 and 14 drafts the Canucks and Wings have been on similar rebuild paths. With similar draft positions. 

Even in 2013 and 2014 the Wings got Mantha + Larkin which compares well with Horvat + Virtanen

But the two teams were night and day last night and last week. It's actually depressing. 

Edited October 23, 2019 by The 91 of Ryans

[Dabura 12,232]

18 minutes ago, The 91 of Ryans said:

Other than the 2013 and 14 drafts the Canucks and Wings have been on similar rebuild paths. With similar draft positions. 

Even in 2013 and 2014 the Wings got Mantha + Larkin which compares well with Horvat + Virtanen

But the two teams were night and day last night and last week. It's actually depressing. 

I think the worst (or maybe best, I dunno) part about these losses is it doesn't necessarily feel like we're getting crushed in the talent department. Our team just seems soft and bumbling and not all that into getting details right. They've spent the past five years trying to figure out how to string simple passes together and move through neutral ice with pace and momentum.

Edited October 23, 2019 by Dabura

[F.Michael 4,590]

7 minutes ago, The 91 of Ryans said:

 

Other than the 2013 and 14 drafts the Canucks and Wings have been on similar rebuild paths. With similar draft positions. 

Even in 2013 and 2014 the Wings got Mantha + Larkin which compares well with Horvat + Virtanen

But the two teams were night and day last night and last week. It's actually depressing. 

With it being a game vs game such as what we saw last night...Does that then come down to who's behind the bench? Are the guys out there in optimal conditions - as in are the lines appropriate - is there an approach in which the coaching staff has a vision that just isn't realistic?

I got flak on HF Boards - complaining about Helm/Abby/Glendog a week ago - Blash like Babs seems to have this idea concerning how there needs to be an element on each line, and there seems to be some stuborness with how to go about things.

We hear great things about Blashill - and I hate to rag on him when ya consider what he has to work with - but is there some truth to his coaching style, or how he goes about his business?

1 minute ago, Dabura said:

I thinkt he worst (or maybe best, I dunno) part about these losses is it doesn't necessarily feel like we're getting crushed in the talent department. Our team just seems soft and bumbling and not all that into getting details right. They've spent the past five years trying to figure out how to string simple passes together and move through neutral ice with pace and momentum.

This.

Gonna jump in my time machine - when Bowman ran the ship (and Babs as well)  - guys could make tape to tape passes, and looked like a legit NHL club.

Today it looks as though these guys couldn't find their own a$$es$ with both hands...Many would say that this falls on coaching...

[The 91 of Ryans 3,019]

8 minutes ago, Dabura said:

I think the worst (or maybe best, I dunno) part about these losses is it doesn't necessarily feel like we're getting crushed in the talent department. Our team just seems soft and bumbling and not all that into getting details right. They've spent the past five years trying to figure out how to string simple passes together and move through neutral ice with pace and momentum.

 

7 minutes ago, F.Michael said:

With it being a game vs game such as what we saw last night...Does that then come down to who's behind the bench? Are the guys out there in optimal conditions - as in are the lines appropriate - is there an approach in which the coaching staff has a vision that just isn't realistic?

I got flak on HF Boards - complaining about Helm/Abby/Glendog a week ago - Blash like Babs seems to have this idea concerning how there needs to be an element on each line, and there seems to be some stuborness with how to go about things.

We hear great things about Blashill - and I hate to rag on him when ya consider what he has to work with - but is there some truth to his coaching style, or how he goes about his business?

This.

Gonna jump in my time machine - when Bowman ran the ship (and Babs as well)  - guys could make tape to tape passes, and looked like a legit NHL club.

Today it looks as though these guys couldn't find their own a$$es$ with both hands...Many would say that this falls on coaching...

See I think it has more to do with the fact that the Canucks came out of the post 2014 draft with Boeser, Petterson, and Hughes vs Svechnikov, Rasmussen, and Zadina

Those three Canucks players are very much moving the needle for them . 

[Dabura 12,232]

8 minutes ago, F.Michael said:

Gonna jump in my time machine - when Bowman ran the ship (and Babs as well)  - guys could make tape to tape passes, and looked like a legit NHL club.

Today it looks as though these guys couldn't find their own a$$es$ with both hands...Many would say that this falls on coaching...

I mean, to be fair, some of it definitely is talent. And I distinctly remember the last few Babcock teams struggling with some of this stuff.

Does it reflect poorly on Blashill? I dunno. I go back and forth on this all the time. Like I said, I do think the "smart" decision is to just stick with Blashill at least a little while longer. But I definitely hear ya. If the players continue to play with their heads up their asses, you kinda have to do something.

=/

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

What does Blashill have in common with Vanek, Filppula, Nielsen, Daley, Nemeth, and Bernier besides being completely mediocre?

They're all stop-gaps

Blash is Bryan Murray/Dave Lewis. When the moment is right, the blood is in the water, and a tier1 NHL coach is available he will be replaced

He a gud daddy to muh keedz, is basically his only value right now

The faster we gain XP and level up Seider/Veleno/Zadina/etcetc the faster Blash will be gone

[Dabura 12,232]

3 minutes ago, The 91 of Ryans said:

See I think it has more to do with the fact that the Canucks came out of the post 2014 draft with Boeser, Petterson, and Hughes vs Svechnikov, Rasmussen, and Zadina

Those three Canucks players are very much moving the needle for them . 

I would agree that they seem to have outdrafted us in recent years and that that puts them in better shape at the present moment. But at the same time I do think our team has been infected with the poo brain virus.

1 minute ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

What does Blashill have in common with Vanek, Filppula, Nielsen, Daley, Nemeth, and Bernier besides being completely mediocre?

They're all stop-gaps

Blash is Bryan Murray/Dave Lewis. When the moment is right, the blood is in the water, and a tier1 NHL coach is available he will be replaced

He a gud daddy to muh keedz, is basically his only value right now

The faster we gain XP and level up Seider/Veleno/Zadina/etcetc the faster Blash will be gone

Purdy much.

Edited October 23, 2019 by Dabura

[F.Michael 4,590]

5 minutes ago, The 91 of Ryans said:

 

See I think it has more to do with the fact that the Canucks came out of the post 2014 draft with Boeser, Petterson, and Hughes vs Svechnikov, Rasmussen, and Zadina

Those three Canucks players are very much moving the needle for them . 

I guess this goes back to the notion - are the Wings 'sitting' on our young guys too long, and holding therm back from the NHL?

6 minutes ago, Dabura said:

I mean, to be fair, some of it definitely is talent. And I distinctly remember the last few Babcock teams struggling with some of this stuff.

Does it reflect poorly on Blashill? I dunno. I go back and forth on this all the time. Like I said, I do think the "smart" decision is to just stick with Blashill at least a little while longer. But I definitely hear ya. If the players continue to play with their heads up their asses, you kinda have to do something.

=/

Some nights I feel an AHL team can beat them...I flip over to another channel, and watch the Leafs/Bruins - there's a poop-ton of players who appear capable of playing at the NHL level (especially their respective 3rd/4th lines).

5 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

What does Blashill have in common with Vanek, Filppula, Nielsen, Daley, Nemeth, and Bernier besides being completely mediocre?

They're all stop-gaps

Blash is Bryan Murray/Dave Lewis. When the moment is right, the blood is in the water, and a tier1 NHL coach is available he will be replaced

He a gud daddy to muh keedz, is basically his only value right now

The faster we gain XP and level up Seider/Veleno/Zadina/etcetc the faster Blash will be gone

Any idea who might be on Grand Master Ys radar?

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

1 minute ago, Dabura said:

I would agree that they seem to have outdrafted us in recent years and that that puts them in better shape at the present moment. But at the same time I do think our team has been infected with the poo brain virus.

Purdy much.

Poo brain virus was inevitable really *sigh* even though for years I liked to think the Wings were better than that...

Too many scouts were here for too long riding the coattails of past success in the 90s. The game has changed a lot since then. I remember reading about one of the scouts who got fired this summer and how his entire scouting strategy was pretty much "is he big? Yup, ok does he have an average amount of talent to with that? Yup, ok I recommend him!" I think that scout alone might explain a few of the wasted draft picks from 2012-2017

Yzerman was necessary to breakup the outdated brain trust and start anew.

Just now, F.Michael said:

Any idea who might be on Grand Master Ys radar?

Tim Stutzle

[Dabura 12,232]

2 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

Poo brain virus was inevitable really *sigh* even though for years I liked to think the Wings were better than that...

Too many scouts were here for too long riding the coattails of past success in the 90s. The game has changed a lot since then. I remember reading about one of the scouts who got fired this summer and how his entire scouting strategy was pretty much "is he big? Yup, ok does he have an average amount of talent to with that? Yup, ok I recommend him!" I think that scout alone might explain a few of the wasted draft picks from 2012-2017

Yzerman was necessary to breakup the outdated brain trust and start anew.

Fair point. I guess "OK but we have the poo brain" isn't much of a counter to the "VAN has more talent and is better" argument.

[F.Michael 4,590]

4 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

Poo brain virus was inevitable really *sigh* even though for years I liked to think the Wings were better than that...

Too many scouts were here for too long riding the coattails of past success in the 90s. The game has changed a lot since then. I remember reading about one of the scouts who got fired this summer and how his entire scouting strategy was pretty much "is he big? Yup, ok does he have an average amount of talent to with that? Yup, ok I recommend him!" I think that scout alone might explain a few of the wasted draft picks from 2012-2017

Yzerman was necessary to breakup the outdated brain trust and start anew.

Tim Stutzle

This guy?

[The 91 of Ryans 3,019]

1 minute ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

Poo brain virus was inevitable really *sigh* even though for years I liked to think the Wings were better than that...

Too many scouts were here for too long riding the coattails of past success in the 90s. The game has changed a lot since then. I remember reading about one of the scouts who got fired this summer and how his entire scouting strategy was pretty much "is he big? Yup, ok does he have an average amount of talent to with that? Yup, ok I recommend him!" I think that scout alone might explain a few of the wasted draft picks from 2012-2017

Yzerman was necessary to breakup the outdated brain trust and start anew.

Tim Stutzle

I think he meant coach?

I'm starting to form a revisionist opinion of Holland's later years of drafting now. Which will get supernova harsh if several of Zadina, Svech, Veleno, Cholowski, Rasmussen are flops and no true gems (other than Hronek) emerge from rounds 2-7. 

[F.Michael 4,590]

9 minutes ago, The 91 of Ryans said:

I think he meant coach?

I'm starting to form a revisionist opinion of Holland's later years of drafting now. Which will get supernova harsh if several of Zadina, Svech, Veleno, Cholowski, Rasmussen are flops and no true gems (other than Hronek) emerge from rounds 2-7. 

It's been years since I can remember of being excited for a guy in GR to make his grand appearance in Detroit...That was Kronwall who won the Eddie Shore Award as the top defenceman in the AHL during the NHL lockout season 2004/2005.

Since then...I don't know of any Red Wing prospect that's been 'tearing it up' at the AHL level.

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

24 minutes ago, The 91 of Ryans said:

I think he meant coach?

Uwe Krupp

[The 91 of Ryans 3,019]

1 minute ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

Uwe Krupp

Rather Stiglitz. 

[krsmith17 7,191]

1 hour ago, The 91 of Ryans said:

I know he scored last night but is Cholowski going to really be any good?

Is Svechnikov?

Zadina? 

Veleno? 

Rasmussen? 

Maybe all we've gotten from the last 4 drafts will only add up to be Hronek and Seider. 

Am I crazy for feeling this way? 

Yes. Yes you are.

What do you mean, "will they be any good?"... I don't think any of them will truly be elite, but I do think all of them will be very good players. About what you can expect for where they were all drafted...

Svechnikov - middle six winger - 19th overall in 2015 - should have picked Boeser, but so should about 15 other teams... if he can remain healthy, I think he will prove to have been a good pick.

Cholowski - top 4 defenseman - 20th overall in 2016 - should have taken DeBrincat, but hindsight is 20/20... overall, looks like a great pick.

Rasmussen - middle six center/winger - picked 9th overall in 2017 - I was very critical of the pick at the time, but still think he will be a quality NHLer (should have taken Necas)... jury is still out.

Zadina - top six winger - picked 6th overall in 2018 - a lot of people think we should have taken Hughes, but it's still early days, and I still believe Zadina will prove to have been a good pick.

Veleno - middle six center - picked 30th overall in 2018 - he was the steal of the draft, and continues to show why teams shouldn't have passed on him... great pick.

Seider - top two defenseman - picked 6th overall in 2019 - Yzerman took a lot of heat with his first pick as GM of the Red Wings, but Seider has silenced the critics... still early, but looks like a very good pick.

There's no question in my mind that all of these players will be quality NHLers.

[The 91 of Ryans 3,019]

10 minutes ago, F.Michael said:

It's been years since I can remember of being excited for a guy in GR to make his grand appearance in Detroit...That was Kronwall who won the Eddie Shore Award as the top defenceman in the AHL during the NHL lockout season 2004/2005.

Since then...I don't know of any Red Wing prospect that's been 'tearing it up' at the AHL level.

Tatar and Bertuzzi had Calder Cup MVP performances. 

But yeah, I mostly agree. 

[The 91 of Ryans 3,019]

6 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

Yes. Yes you are.

What do you mean, "will they be any good?"... I don't think any of them will truly be elite, but I do think all of them will be very good players. About what you can expect for where they were all drafted...

Svechnikov - middle six winger - 19th overall in 2015 - should have picked Boeser, but so should about 15 other teams... if he can remain healthy, I think he will prove to have been a good pick.

Cholowski - top 4 defenseman - 20th overall in 2016 - should have taken DeBrincat, but hindsight is 20/20... overall, looks like a great pick.

Rasmussen - middle six center/winger - picked 9th overall in 2017 - I was very critical of the pick at the time, but still think he will be a quality NHLer (should have taken Necas)... jury is still out.

Zadina - top six winger - picked 6th overall in 2018 - a lot of people think we should have taken Hughes, but it's still early days, and I still believe Zadina will prove to have been a good pick.

Veleno - middle six center - picked 30th overall in 2018 - he was the steal of the draft, and continues to show why teams shouldn't have passed on him... great pick.

Seider - top two defenseman - picked 6th overall in 2019 - Yzerman took a lot of heat with his first pick as GM of the Red Wings, but Seider has silenced the critics... still early, but looks like a very good pick.

There's no question in my mind that all of these players will be quality NHLers.

The chances of you being wrong greatly outweigh the chances of you being right. 

Svechnikov might end up a 10 goal third line grinder

I think Cholowski is eventually going to the Jakub Kindl Hall of Fame

Rasmussen will be OK

Zadina. I'm starting to pee myself (not in a good way)

Veleno might be a third line center just through sheer telekenisis from you

Seider will be OK

Hronek is ******* awesome

I'm in dire need of a real needle-moving star. No more of this pablum. 

While we're on the subject, AA can go f*** himself too. 

 

Edited October 23, 2019 by The 91 of Ryans

[krsmith17 7,191]

32 minutes ago, The 91 of Ryans said:

I'm starting to form a revisionist opinion of Holland's later years of drafting now. Which will get supernova harsh if several of Zadina, Svech, Veleno, Cholowski, Rasmussen are flops and no true gems (other than Hronek) emerge from rounds 2-7. 

None of those guys will be flops and I think you can count the number of "gems" pulled beyond the 2nd round on one hand. I don't think you can fault a GM for not finding those gems, and it's still possible that we have already found one in one of the past couple drafts...

3 minutes ago, The 91 of Ryans said:

The chances of you being wrong greatly outweigh the chances of you being right. 

Svechnikov might end up a 10 goal third line grinder

I think Cholowski is eventually going to the Jakub Kindl Hall of Fame

Rasmussen will be OK

Zadina. I'm starting to pee myself (not in a good way)

Veleno might be a third line center just through sheer telekenisis from you

Seider will be OK

Hronek is ******* awesome

I'm in dire need of a real needle-moving star. No more of this pablum. 

While we're on the subject, AA can go f*** himself too. 

I may be overly optimistic, but you're most certainly being overly pessimistic...

We'll have to wait and see how it pans out, but I disagree wholeheartedly with your opinion of where these prospects end up.