krsmith17 7,191 Report post Posted January 13, 2020 19 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said: You seem to be under the false impression that I want to trade Larkin? The analogy was purely to demonstrate why under-performing employees in bad companies absolutely do and should get high levels of scrutiny. And that increases directly with role responsibility. That was the impression I got from your analogy. Firing top guys for underperforming = trading top guys for underperforming... I'll repeat myself ONCE AGAIN... Larkin deserves to be scrutinized, to a certain degree. However, he doesn't "suck".. Far from it. 22 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said: Larkin is not an inexperienced youth anymore. He's played 4+ full seasons and scored at high levels. He's giving indicators to Yzerman that he needs to be demoted to 2C. But my best guess is Yzerman won't be able to stick another high level center on top of him for some time, so he will definitely have his chance to bounce back yet here. Or, maybe he's doing exactly what Yzerman asked of him, and playing responsible defensively... 12 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said: I mean but what changed between this year and last that Larkin is having such a dramatic decline in scoring? He still played great D last year too. He still played D last season, yes. But making more of a conscience effort to further improve his defensive game, one would think, his offensive numbers might suffer, at least in the beginning... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022 Report post Posted January 13, 2020 (edited) 4 minutes ago, krsmith17 said: That was the impression I got from your analogy. Firing top guys for underperforming = trading top guys for underperforming... I'll repeat myself ONCE AGAIN... Larkin deserves to be scrutinized, to a certain degree. However, he doesn't "suck".. Far from it. Well firing and trading are certainly not the same thing. What you gave you that impression? Firing would be more equivalent to a buyout or contract termination. 4 minutes ago, krsmith17 said: Or, maybe he's doing exactly what Yzerman asked of him, and playing responsible defensively... IDK I would say he's having a sucky season Edited January 13, 2020 by ChristopherReevesLegs Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
krsmith17 7,191 Report post Posted January 13, 2020 1 hour ago, toby91_ca said: Here's my basic logic...which is a cop out really, but it's true at the same time. Those suggesting Larkin has proven himself as a 1C.....I want to say are wrong, but at a minimum, would have a hard time supporting that. I'm not going to say he won't prove to be one over the course of his career, but he hasn't shown the consistency yet to suggest he's "proven". Did it look like he was well on his way last year after building and improving on 60+ points the year before? Absolutely. I'm guessing he'll bounce back at this year is just a stumbling block. Bad teams or not though, that can't be a big excuse. There are + and - in terms of being able to produce based on how good your team is. On the flip side, has this season proven anything regarding his ability to be a 1C going foward? Absolutely not, however, it's fair for people to be concerned. I more or less agree with this. Maybe saying that Larkin has solidified himself as a legitimate 1C is a bit premature. However, he did play like a 1C last season. He's having a down year this season, but I don't see him not bouncing back. Like has been mentioned, his defensive game has drastically improved this season, and I'm sure that's by design. Like I mentioned in a previous post, if Larkin plateaus as a 50-55 point producer, I'll gladly admit I was wrong, and Larkin is merely a 2C. However, I see him hovering around the 70-80 point pace (beyond this season), while also being responsible defensively. That is a 1C. Given the right linemates, and added depth down the lineup (not a one line team), I think he could be over a point per game center through his prime. We'll see how it all plays out over the next few years... 11 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said: Well firing and trading are certainly not the same thing. What you gave you that impression? Firing would be more equivalent to a buyout or contract termination. Yeah, I thought you meant we should buy Larkin out of his contract... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022 Report post Posted January 13, 2020 25 minutes ago, krsmith17 said: Yeah, I thought you meant we should buy Larkin out of his contract... No, you thought an analogy about me firing an employee meant we should trade Larkin, which is equally silly. 43 minutes ago, krsmith17 said: He still played D last season, yes. But making more of a conscience effort to further improve his defensive game, one would think, his offensive numbers might suffer, at least in the beginning... I see the same strong defensive game he had last year. He should probably focus on scoring. 1Cs do that. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
marcaractac 3,963 Report post Posted January 13, 2020 8 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said: No, you thought an analogy about me firing an employee meant we should trade Larkin, which is equally silly. I see the same strong defensive game he had last year. He should probably focus on scoring. 1Cs do that. Stevie clearly wants strong 2-way centers. Luckily for Larkin, he still has a couple of seasons to find out if his scoring as a two-way center will have him as a 1C or 2C. Luckily he isn't getting paid like a 1C. I'd hate to see the s*** show in these forums if he was. 1 krsmith17 reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
krsmith17 7,191 Report post Posted January 13, 2020 12 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said: No, you thought an analogy about me firing an employee meant we should trade Larkin, which is equally silly. An analogy about you firing an employee. One would thing in hockey that would mean either buying a player out, waiving a player, or trading a player. But you just meant the player sucks. Great analogy... 19 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said: I see the same strong defensive game he had last year. He should probably focus on scoring. 1Cs do that. His defensive game has improved this season. Maybe, just maybe, the general manager that knows all too well the importance of becoming a defensive responsible two-way center, told him to "concentrate on defense, and the offense will come". Maybe the offense is starting to come... Or maybe he just sucks.... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
marcaractac 3,963 Report post Posted January 13, 2020 (edited) Another aspect is the lack of secondary scoring this season. We have none. All teams have to do to keep the Wings off of the scoreboard is to zero in on Larkin. That's a lot of s*** for a 23 year old player to deal with. I think he has been handling it pretty well. This is another big change from last season, as we had AA tearing it up elsewhere in the lineup. Once we have secondary scoring on a regular basis, opponents have more to worry about. That opens up more opportunities for Larkin. This is one of many reasons why I think he'll be fine. Edited January 13, 2020 by marcaractac 2 krsmith17 and AtlantaHotWings reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022 Report post Posted January 13, 2020 11 minutes ago, krsmith17 said: An analogy about you firing an employee. One would thing in hockey that would mean either buying a player out, waiving a player, or trading a player. But you just meant the player sucks. Great analogy... Idk if you've noticed but sports contracts are not the same as regular employment. Demotion to 2C is what Larkin needs. Regardless you missed the entire spirit of the analogy *sigh* 13 minutes ago, krsmith17 said: His defensive game has improved this season. Maybe, just maybe, the general manager that knows all too well the importance of becoming a defensive responsible two-way center, told him to "concentrate on defense, and the offense will come". Maybe the offense is starting to come... Or maybe he just sucks.... Larkin was a defensively responsible two-way center last year already. I fail to see these leaps and bounds in defense you all seem convinced of. If he has made them the team isn't benefiting from it. We need him doing what he did last year scoring and shutingdown. You know like a 1C. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
krsmith17 7,191 Report post Posted January 13, 2020 11 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said: Idk if you've noticed but sports contracts are not the same as regular employment. Demotion to 2C is what Larkin needs. Regardless you missed the entire spirit of the analogy *sigh* You are aware that employees get *demoted* in other areas of business other than sport? Maybe that would have been a more apt analogy... 12 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said: Larkin was a defensively responsible two-way center last year already. I fail to see these leaps and bounds in defense you all seem convinced of. If he has made them the team isn't benefiting from it. We need him doing what he did last year scoring and shutingdown. You know like a 1C. He's 23 years old. He'll get there. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022 Report post Posted January 13, 2020 Just now, krsmith17 said: You are aware that employees get *demoted* in other areas of business other than sport? Maybe that would have been a more apt analogy... I guess you could. I've never done it. Typically I fire someone or put someone on top of them till they get the point that they need to quit. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
marcaractac 3,963 Report post Posted January 13, 2020 Bergeron was in a very similar place as Larkin at 23 years old. Coming off a couple almost point per game seasons, then came 39 points in 64 games. He continued to score at about the same rate as Larkin right now for a couple more seasons while transitioning into a 2-way beast. He topped out at about 0.75-0.8 points per game until he turned 31 years old, which is when he consistently hit 1.0 ppg or above. Of course, that lines up nicely with his beast mode Pastrnak years. He won a cup with Boston, as their #1 centre, I might add, scoring at 0.71 ppg that season. NOBODY argued that he was not a legit #1C. Larkin is scoring at 0.65 ppg right now, while refining his defensive game. No, this is not me saying Larkin is guaranteed gonna be the next Bergeron. But that's clearly the type of player he himself and the Red Wings organization want him to be, regardless opf if he hits those highs or not. But for those acting as if he'll never be more than a #2C based on this season, get over yourselves. He's 23. 1 1 krsmith17 and ChristopherReevesLegs reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
krsmith17 7,191 Report post Posted January 13, 2020 1 minute ago, marcaractac said: Bergeron was in a very similar place as Larkin at 23 years old. Coming off a couple almost point per game seasons, then came 39 points in 64 games. He continued to score at about the same rate as Larkin right now for a couple more seasons while transitioning into a 2-way beast. He topped out at about 0.75-0.8 points per game until he turned 31 years old, which is when he consistently hit 1.0 ppg or above. Of course, that lines up nicely with his beast mode Pastrnak years. He won a cup with Boston, as their #1 centre, I might add, scoring at 0.71 ppg that season. NOBODY argued that he was not a legit #1C. Larkin is scoring at 0.65 ppg right now, while refining his defensive game. No, this is not me saying Larkin is guaranteed gonna be the next Bergeron. But that's clearly the type of player he himself and the Red Wings organization want him to be, regardless opf if he hits those highs or not. But for those acting as if he'll never be more than a #2C based on this season, get over yourselves. He's 23. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
marcaractac 3,963 Report post Posted January 13, 2020 I'm not concerned about Larkin at all. I do cross my fingers and toes that Veleno can become a Larkin-calibre center himself some day. 1 krsmith17 reacted to this Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022 Report post Posted January 13, 2020 22 minutes ago, marcaractac said: Bergeron was in a very similar place as Larkin at 23 years old. Coming off a couple almost point per game seasons, then came 39 points in 64 games. He continued to score at about the same rate as Larkin right now for a couple more seasons while transitioning into a 2-way beast. He topped out at about 0.75-0.8 points per game until he turned 31 years old, which is when he consistently hit 1.0 ppg or above. Of course, that lines up nicely with his beast mode Pastrnak years. He won a cup with Boston, as their #1 centre, I might add, scoring at 0.71 ppg that season. NOBODY argued that he was not a legit #1C. Larkin is scoring at 0.65 ppg right now, while refining his defensive game. No, this is not me saying Larkin is guaranteed gonna be the next Bergeron. But that's clearly the type of player he himself and the Red Wings organization want him to be, regardless opf if he hits those highs or not. But for those acting as if he'll never be more than a #2C based on this season, get over yourselves. He's 23. Meh I see Larkin as more of a Jared Staal type Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
marcaractac 3,963 Report post Posted January 13, 2020 1 minute ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said: Meh I see Larkin as more of a Jared Staal type Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The 91 of Ryans 3,019 Report post Posted January 13, 2020 24 minutes ago, marcaractac said: I'm not concerned about Larkin at all. I do cross my fingers and toes that Veleno can become a Larkin-calibre center himself some day. LOL How many fingers and toes do you have? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
marcaractac 3,963 Report post Posted January 13, 2020 2 minutes ago, The 91 of Ryans said: LOL How many fingers and toes do you have? How constructive Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022 Report post Posted January 13, 2020 6 minutes ago, marcaractac said: Newfoundland squad really ganging up on me today. Sucha gorgeous island. Shame Newfie ppl live there. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The 91 of Ryans 3,019 Report post Posted January 13, 2020 Just now, marcaractac said: How constructive Sorry I'm not adding to the 5 page essay on redundancy Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022 Report post Posted January 13, 2020 1 minute ago, The 91 of Ryans said: Sorry I'm not adding to the 5 page essay on redundancy The entirety of it boils down to the use of the word "sucks" lol Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
marcaractac 3,963 Report post Posted January 13, 2020 1 minute ago, The 91 of Ryans said: Sorry I'm not adding to the 5 page essay on redundancy You already have 3 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said: Newfoundland squad really ganging up on me today. Sucha gorgeous island. Shame Newfie ppl live there. You've been brainwashed. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022 Report post Posted January 13, 2020 2 minutes ago, marcaractac said: You've been brainwashed. No, I know about PEI Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
marcaractac 3,963 Report post Posted January 13, 2020 Just now, ChristopherReevesLegs said: No, I know about PEI They have potatoes Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The 91 of Ryans 3,019 Report post Posted January 13, 2020 4 minutes ago, marcaractac said: They have potatoes Triggered by stereotypes PLZ Ban Mods Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
marcaractac 3,963 Report post Posted January 13, 2020 1 minute ago, The 91 of Ryans said: Triggered by stereotypes PLZ Ban Mods Triggered by potatoes Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
