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AtomicPunk

Member Since 29 Sep 2008
Offline Last Active Jul 01 2015 04:17 PM
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#2425558 The Overreaction Thread

Posted by joshy207 on 03 July 2013 - 05:46 PM

I thought I would start a thread tonight for those fans who take the time to look at the big picture - rather than broadcast any anger towards one of the best GM's in the NHL just because it didn't go our way today. So before you elect Paul Holmgren as our next GM, consider that since 2007 he has signed 6 contracts to a combined 61 years and $374.5 Millon to players who are NOT currently playing for Philadelphia. (Shea Weber, Mike Richards, Jeff Carter, Danny Briere, Ilya Bryzalov, and Chris Pronger) you can also add James Van Riemsdyk to that list.

Here are 5 overreaction's I have been exposed to since 10 AM this morning.

1. Vincent Lecavalier - I"ll admit I was intrigued by the possibility of him centering our second line next year...but that's about it. He is 33 years old, is already too slow, and now playing with house money for the duration of this ridiculous 5 year contract. My question is: How motivated is this Stanley Cup champ, who hasn't played more than 65 games or scored more than 25 goals since 09-10, and hasn't been a + player since 06-07 going to be for the next 5 years? Sadly enough, at the same age, Johan Franzen has actually put up better all around numbers since then and who on this site hasn't posted in a "trade Franzen" thread.

2. David Clarkson - Thank God. Why does anyone want this guy signed to a long term contract at 6+ Million per season. Those figures are entering Datsyuk range, and are already in Zetterberg range. Congratulatons on your one 30 goal season Dave, but considering that Hakan Loob, Stephane Richer, Jonathon Cheechoo, Wayne Babych and Dino Cicarelli all scored 50 once... No Thanks.

3. Buyouts - There are like 1 or 2 good centres left in this years free agent crop that 29 other teams have interest in, meaning we probably aren't going to get who we want (Stephen Weiss) because someone will overspend when it's the wrong thing to do (Philadelphia). Collatarally, this means that with 10+ million in the bank and very few targets to spend it on right now, why would we burn our last compliance buyout on either Sammy or Bert who both have 1 year remaining on their contracts, when we still have 4 players signed until at least 2019. The point is, we aren't spending 10 Mill this summer on free agents meaning there is no point in getting rid of any assets simply for cap relief.

4. Lack of Team Talent? - We played Chicago harder than anyone they met en route to winning the cup, and had 3 chances to eliminate them. As of right now, the team will be adding Helm, Bertuzzi, Dekeyser, and Tatar to next years full time roster and losing Filpulla and White for sure. Brunner and Cleary remain to be seen, but can someone tell me how next years team isn't better than last years based on injuries alone, and before you take into account the development of all of our rookies?

5. The Time Is Now - Has anyone seen next years free agent class? Before you erase Vincent Lecavalier from your CapGeek thread team, and visit nhltraderumours.com to pencil someone else into our top 6 while maintaining about $14,000 in Cap Space, consider the future.

 

I also agree with you on Lecavalier (length of contract) and Clarkson (value of contract), but disagree on the rest.

 

The buyouts are all about roster space for younger players and (hopefully) an incoming free agent or two.  Tatar, Nyquist, Andersson, Smith, DeKeyser, and Lashoff need to have regular roles on this team.  Tatar and Nyquist should probably start the season on the top 2 lines, see how they do with Datsyuk, Zetterberg, and Franzen.  If it isn't working, then make a change.  DeKeyser, if he plays the way he did in his short stint last year, will be the #2 defenseman by Thanksgiving.  Lashoff is a capable, defense-first guy, something this team lacks.  He should rotate in and out of the 3rd pairing.

 

Talent and hard work are two completely different things.  Some players have talent, some work hard, and some do both.  Same with teams.  Detroit got a 3-1 lead over Chicago by playing hard and getting under Chicago's skin.  Toews was completely neutralized for the first half of that series, and was actually a detriment to his team because of the way the Wings played against him.  That was hard work, not talent, on the Wings' part.  Based on talent, this team has 3 top-6 forwards and 1 top-3 defenseman right now.  The rest are bottom-6 and bottom-3 guys.

 

The same thing was said last year about this year's FA class.  And the year before about last year's class.  And so on and so on.  Most of the good ones will re-sign with their current teams.

 

Holland has exposed himself over the last few years.  This team has not gotten better.  Some of its draft picks and undrafted free agents are working out, some will be very good in the near future.  But he has not added significant pieces in forever.  He also has not gotten rid of enough "dead weight" either.  He hangs on to guys for too long.  He overvalues his own players and undervalues everyone else's.  He seems reluctant, if not downright afraid, to make a move.  One thing he does very well is work with the guys on his staff, listens to them and trusts their opinions.  But how much of Holland's "magic" really was Scotty Bowman, Jim Nill, his scouts, and Mike Ilitch's wallet?  The more time goes on, I think it's becoming evident that it's at least a big part of it.




#2425482 Wings buy out Colaiacovo, will keep Bertuzzi

Posted by haroldsnepsts on 03 July 2013 - 02:24 PM

That's the problem, he plays on the top lines and the PP and he's a utility player that's paid like a top 6 player. He needs to be replaced with a younger, healthier, legitimate top 6 forward.

 

I agree.  I think Cleary is a symptom, not the problem.  He plays on the top lines because Holland hasn't supplied that younger, healthier, legit top 6 forward.  And I don't know that any of the young guys are there yet. 

 

That's why Cleary being re-signed or not isn't a big deal to me in and of itself.  It's about what Holland does with that top 6.  If he re-signs Cleary thinking he should be a regular in the top 6 and on the PP, then I have a problem. 




#2425263 The Overreaction Thread

Posted by LeftWinger on 03 July 2013 - 08:22 AM

If Holland doesn't buyout Sammy and if he re-signs Cleary for even .30 cents, then this will no longer be an overreaction thread....it will be a legit gripe thread...

 

first, the OP mentioned that Holland held on to Maltby and Draper too long, well I do agree, but Cleary is nowhere near Maltby or Draper, so holding on to him for 3 more years would be committing genocide on this team....




#2425376 The Overreaction Thread

Posted by MileHighWingsGuy on 03 July 2013 - 11:40 AM

The idea of the thread was also to look at the bigger picture. Living in Toronto, I can understand the frustration from fans who haven't seen there team in the playoffs in 9 years, or who sign Mike Komisarek, Jeff Finger, and Mikhail Grabovski to long term big money contracts. Or trade Tukka Rask for Andrew Raycroft, or how about Tyler Seguin and Dougie Hamilton for Phil Kessel. These are moves that make it legitimate for a fan base to rally for a new GM.

In Detroit, we have been to the playoffs 22 years in a row. Won Cups and Presidents Trophies in both the non cap and salary cap eras and adapted from being a very good high spending team, to a very good cap strickened team. This year, in a "transition year" after losing Lidstrom, Stuart, Hudler and not cashing in last summer - we weren't supposed to make the playoffs. What happened? We took the Cup Champs to the brink and ran out of gas after two seven game series. Oh, and our farm team won the Calder Cup.

Not bad for a rebuild, I'm sure the Leafs fans would take that season after 9 of missing the playoffs and stockpiling draft picks every year. Which is another thing, how on earth have we been to the playoffs every year... Usually finishing with home ice advantage, while trading most of our 1st round picks, and somehow manage to draft a Calder Cup champion in the process? Probably our terrible GM....

Imagine if our GM had leveraged some of the talent at the junior level to actually secure a player that would have pushed us over the edge in the Chicago series. If winning a Calder Cup is the goal Kenny succeeded. I could care less about it personally or about the successes we have at lower levels if it doesn't translate on the level that matters. We have too much talent and too many players that will never see the ice. I'd rather leverage some of that talent to secure something that would help us now.




#2425330 The Overreaction Thread

Posted by gcom007 on 03 July 2013 - 10:21 AM

I don't think anyone's arguing (well, at least...) that Holland wasn't a great GM at one point. What a lot of people are noting is that as we have moved far enough into the new era where we really started feeling the weight of the cap, Holland's struggled to show that he can maneuver well in free agency or with other teams via trade. That is a real problem, right now. It doesn't matter that once upon a time he did this or that; "this or that" from "way back when" have no bearing on "hear and now." Hear and now, he can't figure out how to sign or trade for difference makers, and he's tried plenty.

 

Holland's let people slip away that he shouldn't. He continues to cling to players he shouldn't. He overpays for mid-level talent based largely it seems on familiarity. He tries to underpay for high-level talent, which ultimately has failed every time. And when he fails, he's the king of revisionists, make no mistake. That guy finds a way to reshape everything that happened as part of some master plan, and it must be working, because there's plenty of non-critical thinkers who keep falling for it and praising Holland because of what he did in another era now long past us.

 

Oh, I guess it's easy forgetting in an instant that Holland was desperate to throw $9 million plus at both Suter and Parise last summer.

 

Oh, that's right, I remember now, Holland is so smart for not overpaying for free agents!

 

Now that we didn't sign them...

 

"We like our team."

 

I'm not trying to take anything away from what Holland has done, but if he was as great of a GM as people want to paint him to be in this cap era, he would not be struggling so much in the free agency and trade markets. You can say all you want about what he did in the past, but no one willing to be objective can say that Holland has shown that he has a strong handle, let alone any handle, on helping this team via trade or free agency lately. And like it or not (for the sake of some of ever-shifting argument), trade and free agency are still very important parts of this game.




#2424713 Dreger: Filppula looking for $5.5m/season over at least 7 years

Posted by Guest on 02 July 2013 - 01:25 PM

Let them ALL go. If they dont want to be here, fine.

We have a great core.

Filppula, Brunner, Cleary, Samuelsson, Bertuzzi, White = BYE.


#2421081 Dreger: Filppula looking for $5.5m/season over at least 7 years

Posted by VM1138 on 20 June 2013 - 05:03 PM

Flip wasn't failing because he didn't have a 40 goal scorer, Flip failed because he's timid and is literally scared of shooting the puck. A change of scenery won't help him.


#2417289 Holland on The Huge Show.

Posted by RyanBarnes! on 03 June 2013 - 06:41 AM

Filppula at $5, 4 or 3 M per season - who cares? After this playoff I'm thinking we are better off without him. Spend the money on someone that can actually help the team. Clarkson for example.


#2416551 Standing pat according to Malik

Posted by Shaman on 31 May 2013 - 01:04 PM

A team that scored 5 goals in 3 games that they could have eliminated a team is NOT good enough. Once Chicago figured out the Wing's system they pretty much neutralized the Wing's top two lines, and became only the 25th team in the history of the NHL to battle back from 1-3 and win in game 7. Next season the Wings will find themselves in the East, were they will find themselves playing much tougher teams for 82 games, and doing so without a true #1 goal scorer, a true #1 D-man, and no back up goaltender. If you think that will end well, I have a bridge to sell you in Brooklyn. 




#2415797 WCSF Game 7 GDT: Red Wings 1 at Blackhawks 2 OT (CHI wins series, 4-3)

Posted by RedLightGoesOn on 29 May 2013 - 10:40 PM

Wasn't Cleary the leader in points this series?

What's sad about this statement is how shocked we are about this. If he played better everyone would have been chanting Cleary's name. He was GOD AWFUL and would always find a way to choke on HUGE moments. He could have easily tipped this series in our favor if he capitalized on the truck tons of chances and not make as many terrible mistakes/plays with/without the puck. The fact that he is point leader shows us how bad our offense is/was.




#2415707 WCSF Game 7 GDT: Red Wings 1 at Blackhawks 2 OT (CHI wins series, 4-3)

Posted by Wings10 on 29 May 2013 - 10:21 PM

Hopefully Helm will be healthy and ready to go next season.




#2410573 WCSF Game 4 GDT- Blackhawks 0 @ Red Wings 2 - (DET leads series 3-1)

Posted by anthonyn66 on 23 May 2013 - 09:46 PM

Growing up near Toronto I've watched HNIC almost my entire life and grew up listening to Bob Cole. Although he gets names wrong his calls right now are giving me the chills, great stuff on CBC.




#2409237 97.1 The Ticket: Hocketown "Dead"?

Posted by MulesWillFly93 on 22 May 2013 - 01:23 PM

Radio is dead, not Hockeytown.




#2406484 WCSF Game 2 GDT : Red Wings 4 at Blackhawks 1 - (Series Tied at 1)

Posted by Guest on 18 May 2013 - 12:34 PM

Cleary, too. He decided to double-team Sharp instead of watching the trailing man, so Kane was left wide open.

 

I'm really, REALLY tired of Cleary. He provides nothing to the team that the average grinder cannot. His defensive acumen now seems to be totally absent.




#2400189 WCQF Game 5 GDT: Red Wings 2 @ Ducks 3 (OT) - (ANA leads series 3-2)

Posted by GMRwings1983 on 08 May 2013 - 10:50 PM

WHERE IS OUR CAPTAIN???

 

In the rafters.