StormJH1

If you're an impending UFA and look around at the type of money paid to other guys that you know you're better than, I don't know how you can consider it greed. Players around Flip's age have to lock down that one big deal to make the bulk of the money they'll make in their lifetime. Logic and reason tell you that with the cap going down, players like Filppula can't be paid $5.5 mil per year, but experience tells you that somebody will pay that, or close to it. Crap, teams like Phoenix, Columbus, etc. need to hand out a bad contract or two just to stay over the salary floor!
Have you ever left a job voluntarily that you weren't fired from? I suspect most people have (or have considered it), and some people consider doing it on almost an annual basis. Did you feel like a greedy traitor knowing that somebody else had to take over your work and clean your mess up so you could go earn a little more money somewhere else?

Good God, they really offered him that much? Letang has "Brian Campbell" written all over him (remember that Blackhawk's contract?). Or maybe "Sergei Gonchar", for a more familiar, Pens-centric reference.
Top-level offensive performance from defenseman really is a fleeting thing in the NHL. It's as much a product of your system as it is the skill of the defenseman, and it can be gone in a heartbeat. Just look at Jay Bouwmeester, or any number of Florida or Nashville defensemen (Andy Delmore?) that were 20 goal scorers once and never again. True shut down defenders are rare, but that is a commodity that carries over from year to year.
Yes, Letang is a skilled powerplay weapon, but he also plays with Crosby and Malkin. Even more than the money, I really wouldn't want Letang on my team if you had to pay him and play him as a #1 defenseman. He's been involved in way too many 5-4 games where the defense was a complete mess, and that could never have happened as consistently as it did if he were an elite defender along the likes of Chara, Keith, Weber, etc.

As big of an opponent as I was against backdiving deals and other 2005 CBA "cheats" and "workarounds", I still think this is massively unfair to teams that signed these deals, all of which were within the rules of the existing CBA and were approved by the league (except for Kovalchuk's first deal).
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the effect of the recapture penalty to punish NHL front offices for taking advantage of the way cap hits are determined in the first place? Duncan Keith and Marian Hossa will both make just shy of $8 million next year, but the salary cap treats them as if they were making $5 million. To retroactively put into place a rule that punishes previously legal conduct makes no sense to me. I have no problem with recapture penalties going forward (or other rules limiting year-to-year variance on salaries), but that's because teams are now under notice of the rules going forward.
Yes, I understand that the two compliance buyouts were granted to give teams an "out" for that, but that isn't a real solution either, since it forces you to release that player off your team (you can't re-sign a compliance buyout for one year afterwards). If Zetterberg has kids in Sweden and wants to play there, or just decides that he wants to retire from the NHL for health or personal reasons, it just seems wrong to me that HE should be the one put in the position of tanking the Red Wings' salary cap situation by walking away from the team.
For the reasons stated by the OP, I kind of thought that Franzen was a borderline candidate for a buyout. He isn't a player like a Datsyuk or Z that I feel could be productive into his late, late 30's. His knee problems, physical style, and frame suggest a guy that will have a career arc more like Holmstrom, which means we'll be penalized when he hangs it up.

Good God, they really offered him that much? Letang has "Brian Campbell" written all over him (remember that Blackhawk's contract?). Or maybe "Sergei Gonchar", for a more familiar, Pens-centric reference.
Top-level offensive performance from defenseman really is a fleeting thing in the NHL. It's as much a product of your system as it is the skill of the defenseman, and it can be gone in a heartbeat. Just look at Jay Bouwmeester, or any number of Florida or Nashville defensemen (Andy Delmore?) that were 20 goal scorers once and never again. True shut down defenders are rare, but that is a commodity that carries over from year to year.
Yes, Letang is a skilled powerplay weapon, but he also plays with Crosby and Malkin. Even more than the money, I really wouldn't want Letang on my team if you had to pay him and play him as a #1 defenseman. He's been involved in way too many 5-4 games where the defense was a complete mess, and that could never have happened as consistently as it did if he were an elite defender along the likes of Chara, Keith, Weber, etc.

Chicago's players and (much of) their fanbase may be classless individuals, but that is different than the front office. This was an excellent gesture by them at a time when they didn't have to do anything at all. I doubt the Arizona Diamondbacks did anything like this when they delivered an analogous kick to the stomach to the Yankees in 2001.
The Hawks organization is leaps and bounds from where they were 10 years ago, and that's good for the game. For all the damage of the lockout(s), terrible TV contracts, etc., don't you look at the health of the teams and fanbases in MAJOR U.S. cities (LA, Chicago, NY, Philadelphia) that weren't always in a great position, and feel pretty good about the league?

If you're an impending UFA and look around at the type of money paid to other guys that you know you're better than, I don't know how you can consider it greed. Players around Flip's age have to lock down that one big deal to make the bulk of the money they'll make in their lifetime. Logic and reason tell you that with the cap going down, players like Filppula can't be paid $5.5 mil per year, but experience tells you that somebody will pay that, or close to it. Crap, teams like Phoenix, Columbus, etc. need to hand out a bad contract or two just to stay over the salary floor!
Have you ever left a job voluntarily that you weren't fired from? I suspect most people have (or have considered it), and some people consider doing it on almost an annual basis. Did you feel like a greedy traitor knowing that somebody else had to take over your work and clean your mess up so you could go earn a little more money somewhere else?

As big of an opponent as I was against backdiving deals and other 2005 CBA "cheats" and "workarounds", I still think this is massively unfair to teams that signed these deals, all of which were within the rules of the existing CBA and were approved by the league (except for Kovalchuk's first deal).
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the effect of the recapture penalty to punish NHL front offices for taking advantage of the way cap hits are determined in the first place? Duncan Keith and Marian Hossa will both make just shy of $8 million next year, but the salary cap treats them as if they were making $5 million. To retroactively put into place a rule that punishes previously legal conduct makes no sense to me. I have no problem with recapture penalties going forward (or other rules limiting year-to-year variance on salaries), but that's because teams are now under notice of the rules going forward.
Yes, I understand that the two compliance buyouts were granted to give teams an "out" for that, but that isn't a real solution either, since it forces you to release that player off your team (you can't re-sign a compliance buyout for one year afterwards). If Zetterberg has kids in Sweden and wants to play there, or just decides that he wants to retire from the NHL for health or personal reasons, it just seems wrong to me that HE should be the one put in the position of tanking the Red Wings' salary cap situation by walking away from the team.
For the reasons stated by the OP, I kind of thought that Franzen was a borderline candidate for a buyout. He isn't a player like a Datsyuk or Z that I feel could be productive into his late, late 30's. His knee problems, physical style, and frame suggest a guy that will have a career arc more like Holmstrom, which means we'll be penalized when he hangs it up.

If you're an impending UFA and look around at the type of money paid to other guys that you know you're better than, I don't know how you can consider it greed. Players around Flip's age have to lock down that one big deal to make the bulk of the money they'll make in their lifetime. Logic and reason tell you that with the cap going down, players like Filppula can't be paid $5.5 mil per year, but experience tells you that somebody will pay that, or close to it. Crap, teams like Phoenix, Columbus, etc. need to hand out a bad contract or two just to stay over the salary floor!
Have you ever left a job voluntarily that you weren't fired from? I suspect most people have (or have considered it), and some people consider doing it on almost an annual basis. Did you feel like a greedy traitor knowing that somebody else had to take over your work and clean your mess up so you could go earn a little more money somewhere else?

Disagree with the "Sad" part, but that's not why I'm posting. I keep hearing this "we're going to the Eastern Conference and need to get more physical talk" and I don't get it. Most of the time people cite that argument, they're talking about adding a fourth line banger, a heavyweight goon, or (in the case of Tootoo) retaining a 13th forward.
I don't get the Eastern Conference thing at all. There is ONE team in the East (Boston) that is head and shoulders more physically imposing than the rest, and that is Boston. Really, when you say Boston, you mean Chara and Lucic. The skill guys on that team are mostly regular-sized dudes. And Chicago just beat them in 6, and we damn near beat Chicago. You could look teams like LA and find as many (or more) skilled large body forwards, and they're a Western team.
But even if it is true that the East is this totally different style of hockey and we're likely to get bounced all over the rink, you aren't going to change that fact about the Red Wings by adding and subtracting a few role players in free agency. You'd literally have to re-make the entire core of the team, plus throw out all of the elements of Detroit's discipline and emphasis on skill and puck possession that frustrate other physical teams into dumb penalties.
I'm a fan of physical players with skill. For example, if you added David Clarkson (or maybe even Bryan Bickell) to a forward corps that also has Franzen and Abdelkader, that's actually a decent number of skilled big bodies. But this Red Wings team is pretty darn good the way it is, and you can't just reinvent it into something else overnight. Nor would I want to.

Disagree with the "Sad" part, but that's not why I'm posting. I keep hearing this "we're going to the Eastern Conference and need to get more physical talk" and I don't get it. Most of the time people cite that argument, they're talking about adding a fourth line banger, a heavyweight goon, or (in the case of Tootoo) retaining a 13th forward.
I don't get the Eastern Conference thing at all. There is ONE team in the East (Boston) that is head and shoulders more physically imposing than the rest, and that is Boston. Really, when you say Boston, you mean Chara and Lucic. The skill guys on that team are mostly regular-sized dudes. And Chicago just beat them in 6, and we damn near beat Chicago. You could look teams like LA and find as many (or more) skilled large body forwards, and they're a Western team.
But even if it is true that the East is this totally different style of hockey and we're likely to get bounced all over the rink, you aren't going to change that fact about the Red Wings by adding and subtracting a few role players in free agency. You'd literally have to re-make the entire core of the team, plus throw out all of the elements of Detroit's discipline and emphasis on skill and puck possession that frustrate other physical teams into dumb penalties.
I'm a fan of physical players with skill. For example, if you added David Clarkson (or maybe even Bryan Bickell) to a forward corps that also has Franzen and Abdelkader, that's actually a decent number of skilled big bodies. But this Red Wings team is pretty darn good the way it is, and you can't just reinvent it into something else overnight. Nor would I want to.

Disagree with the "Sad" part, but that's not why I'm posting. I keep hearing this "we're going to the Eastern Conference and need to get more physical talk" and I don't get it. Most of the time people cite that argument, they're talking about adding a fourth line banger, a heavyweight goon, or (in the case of Tootoo) retaining a 13th forward.
I don't get the Eastern Conference thing at all. There is ONE team in the East (Boston) that is head and shoulders more physically imposing than the rest, and that is Boston. Really, when you say Boston, you mean Chara and Lucic. The skill guys on that team are mostly regular-sized dudes. And Chicago just beat them in 6, and we damn near beat Chicago. You could look teams like LA and find as many (or more) skilled large body forwards, and they're a Western team.
But even if it is true that the East is this totally different style of hockey and we're likely to get bounced all over the rink, you aren't going to change that fact about the Red Wings by adding and subtracting a few role players in free agency. You'd literally have to re-make the entire core of the team, plus throw out all of the elements of Detroit's discipline and emphasis on skill and puck possession that frustrate other physical teams into dumb penalties.
I'm a fan of physical players with skill. For example, if you added David Clarkson (or maybe even Bryan Bickell) to a forward corps that also has Franzen and Abdelkader, that's actually a decent number of skilled big bodies. But this Red Wings team is pretty darn good the way it is, and you can't just reinvent it into something else overnight. Nor would I want to.

Disagree with the "Sad" part, but that's not why I'm posting. I keep hearing this "we're going to the Eastern Conference and need to get more physical talk" and I don't get it. Most of the time people cite that argument, they're talking about adding a fourth line banger, a heavyweight goon, or (in the case of Tootoo) retaining a 13th forward.
I don't get the Eastern Conference thing at all. There is ONE team in the East (Boston) that is head and shoulders more physically imposing than the rest, and that is Boston. Really, when you say Boston, you mean Chara and Lucic. The skill guys on that team are mostly regular-sized dudes. And Chicago just beat them in 6, and we damn near beat Chicago. You could look teams like LA and find as many (or more) skilled large body forwards, and they're a Western team.
But even if it is true that the East is this totally different style of hockey and we're likely to get bounced all over the rink, you aren't going to change that fact about the Red Wings by adding and subtracting a few role players in free agency. You'd literally have to re-make the entire core of the team, plus throw out all of the elements of Detroit's discipline and emphasis on skill and puck possession that frustrate other physical teams into dumb penalties.
I'm a fan of physical players with skill. For example, if you added David Clarkson (or maybe even Bryan Bickell) to a forward corps that also has Franzen and Abdelkader, that's actually a decent number of skilled big bodies. But this Red Wings team is pretty darn good the way it is, and you can't just reinvent it into something else overnight. Nor would I want to.

Disagree with the "Sad" part, but that's not why I'm posting. I keep hearing this "we're going to the Eastern Conference and need to get more physical talk" and I don't get it. Most of the time people cite that argument, they're talking about adding a fourth line banger, a heavyweight goon, or (in the case of Tootoo) retaining a 13th forward.
I don't get the Eastern Conference thing at all. There is ONE team in the East (Boston) that is head and shoulders more physically imposing than the rest, and that is Boston. Really, when you say Boston, you mean Chara and Lucic. The skill guys on that team are mostly regular-sized dudes. And Chicago just beat them in 6, and we damn near beat Chicago. You could look teams like LA and find as many (or more) skilled large body forwards, and they're a Western team.
But even if it is true that the East is this totally different style of hockey and we're likely to get bounced all over the rink, you aren't going to change that fact about the Red Wings by adding and subtracting a few role players in free agency. You'd literally have to re-make the entire core of the team, plus throw out all of the elements of Detroit's discipline and emphasis on skill and puck possession that frustrate other physical teams into dumb penalties.
I'm a fan of physical players with skill. For example, if you added David Clarkson (or maybe even Bryan Bickell) to a forward corps that also has Franzen and Abdelkader, that's actually a decent number of skilled big bodies. But this Red Wings team is pretty darn good the way it is, and you can't just reinvent it into something else overnight. Nor would I want to.

Disagree with the "Sad" part, but that's not why I'm posting. I keep hearing this "we're going to the Eastern Conference and need to get more physical talk" and I don't get it. Most of the time people cite that argument, they're talking about adding a fourth line banger, a heavyweight goon, or (in the case of Tootoo) retaining a 13th forward.
I don't get the Eastern Conference thing at all. There is ONE team in the East (Boston) that is head and shoulders more physically imposing than the rest, and that is Boston. Really, when you say Boston, you mean Chara and Lucic. The skill guys on that team are mostly regular-sized dudes. And Chicago just beat them in 6, and we damn near beat Chicago. You could look teams like LA and find as many (or more) skilled large body forwards, and they're a Western team.
But even if it is true that the East is this totally different style of hockey and we're likely to get bounced all over the rink, you aren't going to change that fact about the Red Wings by adding and subtracting a few role players in free agency. You'd literally have to re-make the entire core of the team, plus throw out all of the elements of Detroit's discipline and emphasis on skill and puck possession that frustrate other physical teams into dumb penalties.
I'm a fan of physical players with skill. For example, if you added David Clarkson (or maybe even Bryan Bickell) to a forward corps that also has Franzen and Abdelkader, that's actually a decent number of skilled big bodies. But this Red Wings team is pretty darn good the way it is, and you can't just reinvent it into something else overnight. Nor would I want to.

Disagree with the "Sad" part, but that's not why I'm posting. I keep hearing this "we're going to the Eastern Conference and need to get more physical talk" and I don't get it. Most of the time people cite that argument, they're talking about adding a fourth line banger, a heavyweight goon, or (in the case of Tootoo) retaining a 13th forward.
I don't get the Eastern Conference thing at all. There is ONE team in the East (Boston) that is head and shoulders more physically imposing than the rest, and that is Boston. Really, when you say Boston, you mean Chara and Lucic. The skill guys on that team are mostly regular-sized dudes. And Chicago just beat them in 6, and we damn near beat Chicago. You could look teams like LA and find as many (or more) skilled large body forwards, and they're a Western team.
But even if it is true that the East is this totally different style of hockey and we're likely to get bounced all over the rink, you aren't going to change that fact about the Red Wings by adding and subtracting a few role players in free agency. You'd literally have to re-make the entire core of the team, plus throw out all of the elements of Detroit's discipline and emphasis on skill and puck possession that frustrate other physical teams into dumb penalties.
I'm a fan of physical players with skill. For example, if you added David Clarkson (or maybe even Bryan Bickell) to a forward corps that also has Franzen and Abdelkader, that's actually a decent number of skilled big bodies. But this Red Wings team is pretty darn good the way it is, and you can't just reinvent it into something else overnight. Nor would I want to.

Players who sign multi-year contracts when they are age 35 or older (calculated on June 30 of the season the contract begins) count toward the cap under all circumstances, regardless of where (or if) the player is playing. The only cap relief is $100,000 from the player's cap hit if he is assigned to the minors after the first year of the contract. A buyout — either ordinary-course or compliance — can also reduce the cap hit.

I have such mixed feelings about this. I think that any rational citizen looking at this objectively would agree you shouldn't have publicly funded stadiums for billionaires, and a city as economically depressed as Detroit shouldn't have built THREE new stadiums in the span of 15 years. There is no appreciable economic benefit to building a stadium, particularly where there was already a stadium in that area. Studies have been done, and there just isn't any evidence to back it up.
All that being said, people who like the Red Wings (myself included) convince ourselves that we don't care. Or, to look at another way, we DO care about the Red Wings more than we care about a museum renovation, lowering a budget deficit, or the $12 million diverted from education funds (my number/sources may be inaccurate, but you get the point).
And as an out-of-state Red Wings fan, I actually felt guilty that I was happy about the new arena because it benefits me as a fan (though not one that gets back to many live games) without having having to pay the bill in the city I grew up around.
I guess here's the thing with Detroit that keeps coming up: If not now, when? If your argument against any new development or construction is always "wait till things get better?", has that wish ever really come true since, what, the '67 Riots? You could argue there are certain way the city has gotten better since the 90's, but what they really mean is that city has done a better job becoming a Chuck E' Cheese's for adult suburbanites (casinos, Comerica, Ford Field, etc.). JLA is old and would need to be replaced sooner or later, even if there wasn't an immediate threat (like an owner thinking about selling the team or moving it somewhere else).
Sorry, just rambling out loud. I get frustrated when I go back home, see the busted out windows and 28% unemployment, and then have my family tell me how nice downtown is because there's a skating rink at Campus Martius now. Most of my family has never moved more than 10 miles in their lifetime, and they don't know that it doesn't have to be like that. Go Red Wings.

We would agree that $5.5 mil AAV is too much for Filppula, but in terms of Filppula's right to be a free agent or demand whatever he wants, I think you're off-base.
You're saying Filppula owes it to the Wings to accept whatever low-ball offer we throw his way? That a player in the prime of his career needs to "prove" himself by taking one-year deals until he either (a) Has an outlier season where he blows up and then gets overpaid; or (b) Gets his head run into the boards and sees a serious diminution in his value and future earning potential?
Um, no. If I'm Filppula and another team offers me $10 million more (over the life of a multi-year deal) AND a higher profile role on the top lines and PP unit...and all I have to do is live somewhere else and wear a different color sweater? Yeah, I would at least consider that. Filppula is no longer the "property" of the Detroit Red Wings come July 5th - there was nothing stopping his from extending him previously if Holland wanted to lock him up on a multi-year deal.

We would agree that $5.5 mil AAV is too much for Filppula, but in terms of Filppula's right to be a free agent or demand whatever he wants, I think you're off-base.
You're saying Filppula owes it to the Wings to accept whatever low-ball offer we throw his way? That a player in the prime of his career needs to "prove" himself by taking one-year deals until he either (a) Has an outlier season where he blows up and then gets overpaid; or (b) Gets his head run into the boards and sees a serious diminution in his value and future earning potential?
Um, no. If I'm Filppula and another team offers me $10 million more (over the life of a multi-year deal) AND a higher profile role on the top lines and PP unit...and all I have to do is live somewhere else and wear a different color sweater? Yeah, I would at least consider that. Filppula is no longer the "property" of the Detroit Red Wings come July 5th - there was nothing stopping his from extending him previously if Holland wanted to lock him up on a multi-year deal.

This is GREAT! Such a unique talent and great all-around player. It hasn't even sunk in that I could get to watch him for longer than just next year.
Igor Larionov was traded to Detroit in 1995 at Age 35. Think about that! I remember the radio stations blasting them for picking up "just another old guy" at the time - and think about how much he contributed to Detroit through 2003. No offense to The Professor, but Datsyuk is almost twice the NHL player that Igor ever got the chance to be. Such a cerebral player and in excellent physical condition. I've always gotten the sense that he could be productive in the NHL long after he "lost a step".

This is GREAT! Such a unique talent and great all-around player. It hasn't even sunk in that I could get to watch him for longer than just next year.
Igor Larionov was traded to Detroit in 1995 at Age 35. Think about that! I remember the radio stations blasting them for picking up "just another old guy" at the time - and think about how much he contributed to Detroit through 2003. No offense to The Professor, but Datsyuk is almost twice the NHL player that Igor ever got the chance to be. Such a cerebral player and in excellent physical condition. I've always gotten the sense that he could be productive in the NHL long after he "lost a step".

This is GREAT! Such a unique talent and great all-around player. It hasn't even sunk in that I could get to watch him for longer than just next year.
Igor Larionov was traded to Detroit in 1995 at Age 35. Think about that! I remember the radio stations blasting them for picking up "just another old guy" at the time - and think about how much he contributed to Detroit through 2003. No offense to The Professor, but Datsyuk is almost twice the NHL player that Igor ever got the chance to be. Such a cerebral player and in excellent physical condition. I've always gotten the sense that he could be productive in the NHL long after he "lost a step".

I dunno guys. He's only signed through age 32, but I'm concerned by how early his hair is turning gray that he might lose a step earlier due to premature aging.

All this talk of $1.5-2M, its no wonder people slag off KH so much when they have such unrealistic expectations. He is an UNRESTRICTED free agent. Y'know, those guys that desperate GMs give huge contracts to?
If we can get him for $2.5M that would be amazeballs.

You know, I was a goalie when I played (extremely non-professional) hockey, and I always loved everything about goaltending, so I've always been resistant to messing with the equipment. I was okay with 12" to 11" pads (didn't really make an appreciable difference), and some of the things going on in the 90's (like Garth Snow's shoulder pads, or Patrick Roy's mumu-sized jersey) were getting a bit absurd.
But after watching PIT/BOS go to 2OT last night, despite what was really a ton of quality chances by both teams, I am starting to get to the point where it seems like more quality hockey plays should result in goals, and that would be good for the product.
The thing is, I'm not exactly sure how you do that with equipment. Most goaltending equipment, while bulkier in appearance, really does have a functional purpose in protecting the netminder. This was once a very dangerous job, and it was only really into the early 90's that it truly became "the safest position in hockey" because of Kevlar helmets, chest protection, etc. Yes, there were helmets in 70's and better padding available in the 80's. But guys like Cheveldae, Fuhr, Barasso, etc. were still playing primarily a stand-up style in the 80's and early 90's, and a lot of that was just residual from safety concerns when they were growing up.
As ghastly as it is to traditionalists, I'd almost rather make the nets slightly larger than shrink the equipment any more. It's funny to me that people complain about how unfair it is to require visors of position players, yet the league can just mandate radical offseason changes to the actual tools that goaltenders use to perform their jobs (trappers, blockers, chest protector, etc.), and nobody finds that concerning.