Steve Moore interview

[Viperar 16]

If you read the Wingsfan31's post that I was replying to, you'll see that I was talking about Bertuzzi's behavior Re: Moore's civil suit. You were the one who brought the suspension and other players' acts into the conversation.

As to what I based my opinion of Bertuzzi's remorse on, re-read my post where I talk about how Bertuzzi has his lawyers block Moore's attempts to file the civil suit in various courts, and take into account the fact that it's been 3 years, and Moore still hasn't seen a dime from "repentant" Bertuzzi. Again, that doesn't spell "remorse" to me.

EDIT-typos

"The latest lawsuit was filed in Ontario Superior Court, four months after a similar case in Denver was thrown out when a U.S. judge determined the suit would be better handled in Canada where its key defendants - Bertuzzi and the Canucks - are based."

First of all the first law suit had nothing to do with Bertuzzi and was thrown out by an american judge, read above

As for bertuzzi's lawyer blocking the suit, i dont see anything and Moore's lawyer has said its in the courts now waiting to be taken, its jsut backed up

[sibiriak 84]

I guess we have a fundamental difference of opinion then. From where I sit, if you want to protect players and avoid ugly incidents like this that bring disfavor to the league as a whole, you punish the offense and try to get it out of the game. You don't punish based on the severity of the results because then you are still allowing the behavior to occur and potentially, the same results to happen again. The league out to punish players who strike opponents in the head when it isn't an actual fight (ie sucker punches) for 15 games or something and rid themselves of the potential harm instead of just letting players take their chances with it.

For instance, say Yzerman lost his cool and punched somebody out and broke their neck. Would you feel the same about Yzerman. Would you insist he's not sincere in his remorse? Would you agree with those who call him a scumbag and don't want him banned from the league?

Punish the behavior if you want it to stop. IMO, your opinion is poopy. J/K I just don't agree with your logic.

To be clear, I could care less how many games Bertuzzi was suspended for. 10 or 30, it matters very little.

I despise Bertuzzi for his behavior in the matter of damages due to Moore. From what little I know about Yzerman character, I absolutely refuse to believe that if he were in Bertuzzi's shoes, he would not meet Moore in any court of Moore's choice, and try to make all amends that he reasonably could as soon as he could, instead of dragging his feet for 3 years.

As to what penalties or suspensions the league should levy for the hits to the head, take it up with Colin Campbell, I don't have a reasoned opinion on that subject.

"The latest lawsuit was filed in Ontario Superior Court, four months after a similar case in Denver was thrown out when a U.S. judge determined the suit would be better handled in Canada where its key defendants - Bertuzzi and the Canucks - are based."

First of all the first law suit had nothing to do with Bertuzzi and was thrown out by an american judge, read above

As for bertuzzi's lawyer blocking the suit, i dont see anything and Moore's lawyer has said its in the courts now waiting to be taken, its jsut backed up

Bertuzzi's lawyers disputed the jurisdiction in both Denver and Ontario courts. They know perfectly well that hearing in Vancouver is the most beneficial to their client. If they stipulated to courts jurisdiction, or offered to go to suitable for both parties arbitration, the case could have been settled by now. But the lawyers job is to act in the best interest of their client. It is for the client (Bertuzzi) to direct his lawyers to take steps to expedite the case, even if that is not exactly the best legal move. A remorseful honorable man would do that. Bertuzzi has not.

[drwscc 212]

Just putting this out there, but it seems to me that if I was suing someone for the ending a career I wasn't particularly successful at for more money than I would have earned for a 20 year career, I would really take my time trying to "come back" even if I was healthy, knowing that my case would be substantially weaker if I started playing again, thereby demostrating that I hadn't suffered a career ending injury.

Wonder if after the dust settles, and Moore gets his money, if his post-concussion symptoms go away.

[TheWestWing 71]

Oh boy...

I'm going to pitch a nice, friendly question here. If say, the Wings did not get Bertuzzi at the deadline, would anyone have posted that interview or really mentioned it? I'll go with no as my answer. Just another chance for the Bertuzzi to take another stab at the guy just because they don't like him. I'm curious to here what any others have to say about my question though.

Yeah, I probably still would have but obviously in a different context. You all can argue about what is right or wrong till the cows come home - not many care what most of you have to say anyways ('et tu brute' most will say).....

For me, it's just a real juxtaposition when I have to hope that someone who I really dont care for as a person becuase of his previous actions can help my team. Never had to do that before. With time I probably coulda became

a Friend of Floppa if necessitated - I just dont see me becoming a member of Bert's Boosters.

[hillbillywingsfan 792]

Just putting this out there, but it seems to me that if I was suing someone for the ending a career I wasn't particularly successful at for more money than I would have earned for a 20 year career, I would really take my time trying to "come back" even if I was healthy, knowing that my case would be substantially weaker if I started playing again, thereby demostrating that I hadn't suffered a career ending injury.

Wonder if after the dust settles, and Moore gets his money, if his post-concussion symptoms go away.

great post!!

sibiriak so are you saying that bert should just give moore whatever he is asking for..that would be the right thing to do? even though his career ending injury may not be a career ending injury and it may have been embellished some?

[Viperar 16]

'Criminal charges filed against Bertuzzi in Vancouver resulted in a guilty plea and a sentence of one year's probation plus 80 hours of community service.' So whether you concur with the Kanadian justice system or not, by their standards he did commit a crime and therefore IS a criminal.

"On 22 December 2004 Bertuzzi pleaded guilty to the assault charge after arranging a plea bargain with prosecutors. He was given a conditional discharge and one year's probation. (Under Canadian law, Bertuzzi's successful completion of the probation means he has no criminal record from the incident.)

"To the fans of hockey and the fans of Vancouver, to the kids that watch this game, I'm truly sorry. I don't play the game that way. I'm not a mean-spirited person. I'm sorry for what happened." - Todd Bertuzzi

Somehow i dont think hes just putting an act on for 3 years now...

[sibiriak 84]

great post!!

sibiriak so are you saying that bert should just give moore whatever he is asking for..that would be the right thing to do? even though his career ending injury may not be a career ending injury and it may have been embellished some?

a) Bertuzzi has no moral right to questionthe severity of Moore's injuries. His lawyers have such legal right.

b) Bertuzzi (if he really was remorseful) should have directed his lawyers to settle the case as soon and as painlessly for Moore as possible, even if he would have to overpay some.

c) Until the case is settled one way or the other, Bertuzzi has not yet atoned for his actions, and since he seems in no hurry to do so, I'll keep thinking of him as an unrepentant criminal. As such, I can not cheer for him if he scores a goal or makes a great play in the Wings uniform.

d) The rest is betwen Bertuzzi's conscience and his God.

Edited March 8, 2007 by sibiriak

[Wingsfan31 0]

Sibiriak,

I stand corrected, you certainly are entitled to your opinion regarding Bertuzzi's state of mind.

Part of me wonders if Bert is getting any heat from the PA in fighting the award, too. As much as I'm sure the NHLPA supports Moore, they probably don't want a precident set where players are suing, and settling, for incidents that occured within the confines of the ice arena.

I think the league and the PA go down a slippery slope when players are paying out damages for injuries that occured during the game. What's to stop a guy for suing on a kneeing hit that causes him to never be the same player? What about a check from behind where the player turns into it and ends up with a broken neck, and no clear fault can be assigned? That's where the cynical side of me sees this going in the end,

[Barrie 900]

Yep...Darren suckerpunched Claude and was kneeing him in the face along the boards. I loved every second of it, but it would have been terrible if something had happened to Claude that had kept him from playing again.

I don't like to call McCarty's hit on Lemieux a sucker punch. Mac came right at him, Lemieux saw him coming, so it wasn't a sucker punch. It was one of those nights when you knew something was going to happen because Lemieux continued to add fuel to the fire when he made all those comments about making Draper's career and helping him earn an extra $100,000. Plus the Wings were showing the Avs and Lemieux that they weren't going to be pushed around, and wouldn't take Claude's sucker punches to Kozlov and guttless hit on Draper without payback. Mac was protecting the team.

Also, Lemiuex had a history of this kind of behaviour, and he needed to be put in his place. Claude pretty much stopped after Mac got him back. Who knows, Mac may have protected not only the Wings, but other team's players from continued Lemieux hits from behind?

I know I'm Detroit biast, but I think the Leafs should get back NJ's Cam Janssen for his hit on Kaberle. Players shouldn't have to put up with players who drill the opposition when they know they aren't ready for it.

[sibiriak 84]

Sibiriak,

I stand corrected, you certainly are entitled to your opinion regarding Bertuzzi's state of mind.

Part of me wonders if Bert is getting any heat from the PA in fighting the award, too. As much as I'm sure the NHLPA supports Moore, they probably don't want a precident set where players are suing, and settling, for incidents that occured within the confines of the ice arena.

I think the league and the PA go down a slippery slope when players are paying out damages for injuries that occured during the game. What's to stop a guy for suing on a kneeing hit that causes him to never be the same player? What about a check from behind where the player turns into it and ends up with a broken neck, and no clear fault can be assigned? That's where the cynical side of me sees this going in the end,

i think Moore is sueing Bertuzzi and some other persons, as well as the Canucks organization. That's what they have liability insurance for. Remember when a girl died in Columbus, after being hit with an errant puck? From the insurance liability standpoint, it is a similar case. A company's empolyee did damage to someone in the course of doing his job. If he should be held personally liable also, is for the courts to decide.

[GiantRobot 0]

Wonder if after the dust settles, and Moore gets his money, if his post-concussion symptoms go away.

since he is seeking 19.2 million, which looks to be career compensation, part of the settlement/ruling should be that he cannot return to hockey then.

[GiantRobot 0]

a) Bertuzzi has no moral right to questionthe severity of Moore's injuries. His lawyers have such legal right.

b) Bertuzzi (if he really was remorseful) should have directed his lawyers to settle the case as soon and as painlessly for Moore as possible, even if he would have to overpay some.

How do you know he didnt try, and Moore wanted more? 19 million is more than overpaying some. I mean come on, Moores parents are suing or planning to sue him for 2 million dollars because of stress.

Would moore have even made that much for a career?

c) Until the case is settled one way or the other, Bertuzzi has not yet atoned for his actions

So attonement is measured in dollars? Talk about something being between Moore and god...

and since he seems in no hurry to do so, I'll keep thinking of him as an unrepentant criminal. As such, I can not cheer for him if he scores a goal or makes a great play in the Wings uniform.

I will.

The guy seems remorseful, and just because he hasnt settled monetarily doesnt mean he isnt.

[regwinguofmfan 0]

Bert defended a team mate.

So what.

The hitt Moore threw could have ended the guy he hits carreer too.

This is an emotional contact sport.

For those of you who dont get that, maybe golf is more your thing.

[Guest GordieSid&Ted]

To be clear, I could care less how many games Bertuzzi was suspended for. 10 or 30, it matters very little.

I despise Bertuzzi for his behavior in the matter of damages due to Moore. From what little I know about Yzerman character, I absolutely refuse to believe that if he were in Bertuzzi's shoes, he would not meet Moore in any court of Moore's choice, and try to make all amends that he reasonably could as soon as he could, instead of dragging his feet for 3 years.

As to what penalties or suspensions the league should levy for the hits to the head, take it up with Colin Campbell, I don't have a reasoned opinion on that subject.

Bertuzzi's lawyers disputed the jurisdiction in both Denver and Ontario courts. They know perfectly well that hearing in Vancouver is the most beneficial to their client. If they stipulated to courts jurisdiction, or offered to go to suitable for both parties arbitration, the case could have been settled by now. But the lawyers job is to act in the best interest of their client. It is for the client (Bertuzzi) to direct his lawyers to take steps to expedite the case, even if that is not exactly the best legal move. A remorseful honorable man would do that. Bertuzzi has not.

hmmm....

'honorable' yes, honorable and stupid.

I don't like to call McCarty's hit on Lemieux a sucker punch. Mac came right at him, Lemieux saw him coming, so it wasn't a sucker punch. It was one of those nights when you knew something was going to happen because Lemieux continued to add fuel to the fire when he made all those comments about making Draper's career and helping him earn an extra $100,000. Plus the Wings were showing the Avs and Lemieux that they weren't going to be pushed around, and wouldn't take Claude's sucker punches to Kozlov and guttless hit on Draper without payback. Mac was protecting the team.

Also, Lemiuex had a history of this kind of behaviour, and he needed to be put in his place. Claude pretty much stopped after Mac got him back. Who knows, Mac may have protected not only the Wings, but other team's players from continued Lemieux hits from behind?

I know I'm Detroit biast, but I think the Leafs should get back NJ's Cam Janssen for his hit on Kaberle. Players shouldn't have to put up with players who drill the opposition when they know they aren't ready for it.

Barrie, you may not like to call it a sucker punch but when somebody punches you in the face while your arms are at your sides and you aren't expecting it, well sorry pal, its a sucker punch. Claude definitely should've expected something to happen to him. However, that doesn't mean he knew that punch was coming at that moment. The whole fuel to the fire stuff really doesn't make a difference imo. A sucker punch is a sucker punch. It's a pretty basic concept.

Edited March 9, 2007 by GordieSid&Ted

[KrazyGangsta 79]

1 thing to say ... TO ALL THE FANS THAT DONT LIKE BERTUZZI ... the incident that happened was 3 years ago ... and if you guys havent realised moore had hit naslund dirty also knocked him ... naslund was bleeding from his head ... put yourself in a wings uniform ... and imagine some1 hit YZERMAN and he was bleeding in the head DONT TELL ME YOU WOULDNT GO KNOCK HIM ... i sure hell would ... and like mentioned in this thread mccarthy had a sucker punch himself ... anyways im not saying i feel bad for moore ... but yio THIS IS THE NHL AND IF YOUR NOT READY FOR STUFF LIKE THAT ITS NOT MY PROBLEME ITS A MANS LEAGUE AND BERTUZZI IS A BIG MAN

and moore should of been expecting it ... cause in an interview bertuzzi had mentionned that he is going to get him for revenge

Edited March 9, 2007 by KrazyGangsta

[wingslogo19 281]

1 thing to say ... TO ALL THE FANS THAT DONT LIKE BERTUZZI ... the incident that happened was 3 years ago ... and if you guys havent realised moore had hit naslund dirty also knocked him ... naslund was bleeding from his head ... put yourself in a wings uniform ... and imagine some1 hit YZERMAN and he was bleeding in the head DONT TELL ME YOU WOULDNT GO KNOCK HIM ... i sure hell would ... and like mentioned in this thread mccarthy had a sucker punch himself ... anyways im not saying i feel bad for moore ... but yio THIS IS THE NHL AND IF YOUR NOT READY FOR STUFF LIKE THAT ITS NOT MY PROBLEME ITS A MANS LEAGUE AND BERTUZZI IS A BIG MAN

and moore should of been expecting it ... cause in an interview bertuzzi had mentionned that he is going to get him for revenge

you just nailed that right on the button, couldn't of said it better

[sibiriak 84]

hmmm....

'honorable' yes, honorable and stupid.

May be it is my Russian heritage, but I'd take an honorable fool over a smart weasel every time.

I marvel when people say, that Moore must be exaggerating his injuries, based solely on the fact that it could bring him more money in the civil suit, when there's no evudence that Moore's injuries are not as seriuous as he says.

At the same time, when Bertuzzi shows public remorse, nobody questions the sincerity of that, based on the fact that it is in Bertuzzi interest to show his remorse publicly, to get lesser criminal penalty and to generate some goodwill among the potential jury pool for the upcoming civil case. Why is that?

[sibiriak 84]

How do you know he didnt try, and Moore wanted more? 19 million is more than overpaying some. I mean come on, Moores parents are suing or planning to sue him for 2 million dollars because of stress.

Would moore have even made that much for a career?

So attonement is measured in dollars? Talk about something being between Moore and god...

I will.

The guy seems remorseful, and just because he hasnt settled monetarily doesnt mean he isnt.

When you injured someone, you can't magically heal them, so you can only make up for your actions monetarily.

I never said that Bert should have paid 19 mil. or any other number. I said that he should have directed his lawyers to be more flexible and expedite the settlement. Even if that meant paying more in damages, than the absolute minimum they are aiming for. I don't know what the final number will be, but for the sake of argument lets assume that after all legal tricks are exausted in another 5 years, Bertuzzi is sentenced to pay say $3mil. If his lawyers were more flexible from the beginning, lets say he would have to pay $5 mil. in 2006 or so. That's what I am talking about. That's what i'd expect an honorable man to do to atone for his crime. Because simply saying "I am sorry" and not doing anything to help the victim of your crime does not indicate remorse to me. Ask yourself this question: If Bertuzzi is really remorsful, and his legal strategy is that of a remorsful man, what could he have done differently, if he were only faking remorse to get off with minimum punishment and money damages? If your answer is nothing different, then why do you believe in his remorse and don't believe in Moore's injuries? Simply because Bertuzzi is a better hockey player?

[Turretin 0]

i think Moore is sueing Bertuzzi and some other persons, as well as the Canucks organization. That's what they have liability insurance for. Remember when a girl died in Columbus, after being hit with an errant puck? From the insurance liability standpoint, it is a similar case. A company's empolyee did damage to someone in the course of doing his job. If he should be held personally liable also, is for the courts to decide.

Because Bertuzzi was convicted of criminal charges, the insurance indemnity contract was likely breached. (Criminal intentional torts are rarely, if ever, covered). Anything Moore goes after Bert for is probably out of pocket. That means Bert is paying all the legal fees and all of the reward.

[Guest GordieSid&Ted]

May be it is my Russian heritage, but I'd take an honorable fool over a smart weasel every time.

I marvel when people say, that Moore must be exaggerating his injuries, based solely on the fact that it could bring him more money in the civil suit, when there's no evudence that Moore's injuries are not as seriuous as he says.

At the same time, when Bertuzzi shows public remorse, nobody questions the sincerity of that, based on the fact that it is in Bertuzzi interest to show his remorse publicly, to get lesser criminal penalty and to generate some goodwill among the potential jury pool for the upcoming civil case. Why is that?

Maybe they do things differently in Russia. Over here, the American way, when you've screwed up, isn't to pay somebody off to make yourself feel all better inside. When you think you are going to owe somebody a s***load of money, you do everything possible to limit what that amount is. I'm sorry, that's just human nature. Just because you use the legal system to limit your exposure doesn't mean you don't wake up every morning and feel sorry for what you did. It doesn't mean you don't feel sorry for striking Moore. It doesn't mean you don't regret that you hurt somebody and that you ruined your reputation and that you'll carry that baggage with you forever. Maybe Bertuzzi is remorseful, maybe he isn't. But the fact that he isn't just trying to end this thing as quickly as possible doesn't necessarily mean he is or isn't. You can imply all you want but it doesn't make it so.

[sibiriak 84]

Maybe they do things differently in Russia. Over here, the American way, when you've screwed up, isn't to pay somebody off to make yourself feel all better inside. When you think you are going to owe somebody a s***load of money, you do everything possible to limit what that amount is. I'm sorry, that's just human nature. Just because you use the legal system to limit your exposure doesn't mean you don't wake up every morning and feel sorry for what you did. It doesn't mean you don't feel sorry for striking Moore. It doesn't mean you don't regret that you hurt somebody and that you ruined your reputation and that you'll carry that baggage with you forever. Maybe Bertuzzi is remorseful, maybe he isn't. But the fact that he isn't just trying to end this thing as quickly as possible doesn't necessarily mean he is or isn't. You can imply all you want but it doesn't make it so.

So, in US culture, if you did something wrong and damaged someone, the way to feel remorse is to do nothing about it and try to use the courts and lawyers to escape with paying as little as possible? I must look up "remorse" in the dictionary again, because I could swear it meant something different. What does "care about yourself only and screw other people" means then?

[Guest I Can See Cleary Now]

Hey, time to stop ripping Bertuzzi-Chris Simon gave the NHL a new cheapshot to focus on last night

[Flip-check 6]

Maybe they do things differently in Russia. Over here, the American way, when you've screwed up, isn't to pay somebody off to make yourself feel all better inside. When you think you are going to owe somebody a s***load of money, you do everything possible to limit what that amount is. I'm sorry, that's just human nature.

Just because you use the legal system to limit your exposure doesn't mean you don't wake up every morning and feel sorry for what you did. It doesn't mean you don't feel sorry for striking Moore. It doesn't mean you don't regret that you hurt somebody and that you ruined your reputation and that you'll carry that baggage with you forever.

I don't follow (and honestly, don't really care) about the Bertuzzi and Moore legal issue, so this is more a comment on the handling of this in general. That said, I'm sure there's a saying somewhere... that likely goes along the line of "you may feel sorry for an act all you want, but until you work toward reparation, you have not felt sorry at all."

So in other words, crying in the dark of night five minutes before bed ain't squat. And where do you get the idea that it's about "paying someone off to make yourself feel all better"? Financial settlements, when they're valid (yeah, they exist), aren't greedfests and oughtn't have any more a negative connotation to them than the plaintiff brings himself if they go for a ridiculous reward sum. How would you suggest making amends in cases then? With love letters? And then after that, when you go to the grocery store, could management possibly be persuaded to accept "very positive" feedback forms in return for food? I wager not.

That's how real damages and real repairs work. It isn't about being "paid off" (as you say). And sibiriak makes another note on limiting amounts and fairness, but he got to it so I won't parrot the question . Suffice to say though when you accidentally break your buddy's mediocre tv you don't give him a $3000 new set, but you definitely don't hand him a cheap used $30 one either. That's what fair shakes are about.

[Mudvayneowns91 0]

There's no point arguing about it guys no matter how you look at it. Bertuzzi shouldn't have punched Moore from behind. It was an awful sight to see and could of been stopped by just skating away. That being said, talking about how horrible Bertuzzi wont change things now. Personally, I believe Moore should be compensated with a good chunk of money (especially if he can't play again) but come on.... The only logical thing to do as a Wings fan is cheer for the guy and try to forget the stereotype that he's the next anti-christ