Who do you think needs to go?

[NeverForgetMac25 483]

well i know there are plenty of complainers in here, but i think this subject is set in stone at this point cause we're gonna have to drop someone to make cap space, and make moves during the offseason...i get what youre clawing at though

However, with the cap going up next year (thought to be around $47-$48) it could open up the door to re-signing more players than people around here think.

[imisssergei 0]

Oh man, just quit now, dude. Your comment on Grigs already hurt your credibility in my eyes, but this post just shattered it. Let me get this straight: you don't think Ozzie is a number one goalie, so you think that the best solution would be to split the time between Mr. Not-A-#1-Goalie and a rookie goaltender who has proven inconsistent at the AHL level? Further, you say that Belfour and Joseph have similar numbers to Hasek on worse teams; Belfour's 2.81 and .901, and Joseph's .896 and 3.21, don't quite match up with Hasek's 2.13 and .908. Check your stats. Sheesh. What a bogus comment. Finally, you say that Hasek has proven he is a "shell" of his former self when he has been one of the best goaltenders in the league.

Right on, man. Honestly, just give it up and walk away.

Why would you have two players who play the EXACT same role--Homer and Smyth-- on the same line?

Hasek's save percentage probably suffers from the fact that he sees very few shots from the perimeter, and very few shots in general.

Luongo is great.... hummokay, I fail to see the point.

How on earth would be bring back lots in return if we didn't sign him?

First, what is everyones love affair with grigs? He has done nothing over here, and very little to draw in Russia to draw the attention he is getting. He may have been a promising young talent, but since the car wreck he is not the same player, ot at least that is how HE described himself. Even if he did regain his talent, the self descrition of not being the same player he was before the accident show a lack of confidence which will result is poor preformance.

Second, if Dom is so much better than Belfour and Joseph, his save percentage should be much higher than them, not just a few points. How would seeing fewer shots hurt this? It could only help. Especially for an aging, injury prone goaltender. Regardless, Dom has faced roughly 120 shots less than Joseph in 4 more games, and roughly 240 less than Belfour in 2 less games. The GAA is not a fair comparison because it directly reflects the team you have in front of you. A goalie can only do so much by himself. The save percentage is a better reflection on how well the goaltender is doing. And with Belfour and Joseph both with in a stones throw away from Dom there, my point is valid. I think if you plug either of these other two goalies in with Detroit this season, you get strickingly similair results.

Third, I think Ozzie could handle the load, but I feel it's time to get Howard some strong NHL experience. As with grigs, you don't get NHL ready playing in the minors. We need a solid number one goalie. We don't have that. While I feel Ozzie can be a number one for a year or two, his skill level is dropping. Just FYI, I feel much more comfortable with Ozzie in net than Dom, seriously at least Ozzie doesn't look like he is going to fall down every time he trys to play the puck.

Fourth, if you would have read the original post, and not just a quote from it, maybe then you would have understood. Someone called Dom a 'great goaltender'. Dom is not great. He is average. He is lucky to play for a team like Detroit. If you insert him back on Vancouver, and Luongo on Detroit, you would see Detroit at the top of the standings with no one relativly close, and Vancouver fighting to be in the playoff race. Luongo is a great goalie, Dom was a great goalie.

Finally, I do agree with you on something, how would not siging Pav help us out at all? The only thing we would gain is cap space, with which, who the hell would we sign to fill his role? There is no one on the FA market who can do that, bottom line, we need him back in red and white.

[imisssergei 0]

Maybe you are too young to remember, but we did hear non-stop about how good Zetterberg and Datsyuk were going to be.

By the way, I love how you know more than the entire Red Wings organization.

Are you a moron? He had McLennan as Osgood's backup, which would - watch out! Im using logic! - mean hes not as good as Osgood.

Way to create a good reputation for yourself.

Joseph and Belfour have put up similar numbers to Hasek???

Hasek - 2.13, .908

Belfour - 2.8, .900

Joseph - 3.13, .896

The difference between grigs and Pav and Hank is we were hearing about Pav and Hank while they were wearing the Winged Wheel buddy!! You are an idiot, grigs has never played an NHL game, the hype is too much, lets move on!!

If the Wings were to sign McLennan, they wouldn't need Osgood. YOU ARE THE MORON!!! Osgood is better than McLennan, but why would you even bother bringing him in? He is at best an inconsistant career backup. Why not bring up Howard or Liv? At least then you are getting them some valuable experience!

Wow, if you could only read you would see that those numbers aren't too far apart. Anyone who knows anything about hockey knows the GAA is more of a team stat. Yes, some goalies can make a huge difference, but Dom has faced about 120 shots less than Joseph in 4 more games, and 240 shots less than Belfour in 2 less games. Also consider that Florida has given up 241 goals this season, Phoenix has given up 265, and Detroit only 188. Detroit is, year in and year out, one of the best teams defensively in the league, of course the Wings goalie is going to have a better GAA than most! Numbers don't lie, Dom has let in 110 goals this year, Belfour 140, and Joseph 144. Assuming Dom could keep the same save percentage with the other two teams, he would have let in toughly 134 in Florida, and 122 in Phoenix. When you look at it, not so far apart.

[Vonnie182 0]

Lang, Hasek, Malts (sorry to say), Sammy, Schneider all need to go...still not sure bout Chelly (he is a great player...but our young D needs a slot to play)

line up next year

Zetterberg/Datsyuk/Bertuzzi

Holmstrom/Flip/Hudler

Calder/Drapes/Franzen

Cleary/AVAILABLE SLOT/Kopecky

Lidstrom/Kronwall

Lebda/Markov

2 top defensive propects

this is all inter-changable lines...but thats the roster...its healthy to have young guys battle for open slots

l

[Viperar 16]

you guys underestimate our defense, we are one of the teams that allows least shots against, they do their work

[imisssergei 0]

you guys underestimate our defense, we are one of the teams that allows least shots against, they do their work

THANK YOU VIPER!!!!!!! Someone on this site actually can think!!!!! It's our defence that allows Doms subpar preformance to appear stellar. That's the point I have been trying to make!

[StaticWithABeat 0]

Aside from the obvious suspects, I don't want Datsyuk re-signed if he s***s the bed in the playoffs again. He looks good this year, much more assertive and confident than in years past, but if he can't pull his weight in the playoffs then let him walk and sign Daniel Briere instead.

[Heroes of Hockeytown 694]

THANK YOU VIPER!!!!!!! Someone on this site actually can think!!!!! It's our defence that allows Doms subpar preformance to appear stellar. That's the point I have been trying to make!

You're really putting words in his mouth if that's what you think he said. He doesn't mention Hasek anywhere.

Both the defense and Hasek have contributed to our record, as opposed to one carrying the other. On nights where Dom and the D are on their game, like Monday, they have the ability to be suffocating. On some nights we'll rely more heavily on goaltending or team defense, but our overall record is a reflection of both.

[imisssergei 0]

You're really putting words in his mouth if that's what you think he said. He doesn't mention Hasek anywhere.

Both the defense and Hasek have contributed to our record, as opposed to one carrying the other. On nights where Dom and the D are on their game, like Monday, they have the ability to be suffocating. On some nights we'll rely more heavily on goaltending or team defense, but our overall record is a reflection of both.

Yes, on a rare occasion where the D didn't step up, Dom did. However, look at the stats buddy. Where do the Wings place in shots allowed? That's right, number one. I don't care how great your goalie is, he can't block a shot without it counting as a save. That's the D's job. And don't tell me that Dom always steps up his game or anything like that. Was I the only one to see Dom doing his usual inopportune terrible acting job to try and draw a penalty, only to let in the game winner instead? Come on, this guy his on the tail end of a great career, he needs to go!!

[Heroes of Hockeytown 694]

And don't tell me that Dom always steps up his game or anything like that. Was I the only one to see Dom doing his usual inopportune terrible acting job to try and draw a penalty, only to let in the game winner instead?

Are you dismissing his whole year on that single mistake? Please.

He does step up his game. He's made a career out of being clutch and making the big save. Even when he has a terrible period, there's a point where he just shuts the door and seals the W. You must see it, I assume you've been watching the team this year.

[Dano33 41]

Lang, Hasek, Malts (sorry to say), Sammy, Schneider all need to go...still not sure bout Chelly (he is a great player...but our young D needs a slot to play)

line up next year

Zetterberg/Datsyuk/Bertuzzi

Holmstrom/Flip/Hudler

Calder/Drapes/Franzen

Cleary/AVAILABLE SLOT/Kopecky

Lidstrom/Kronwall

Lebda/Markov

2 top defensive propects

this is all inter-changable lines...but thats the roster...its healthy to have young guys battle for open slots

l

i think chelios will decide to retire when its the right time. that time hasn't come yet, but he will realize when he isnt able to keep up anymore. chelios will be back next year.

Edited March 28, 2007 by Dano33

[arnoldbuck 0]

I will state that for what he brings to the ice, and for the price he brings it ... I 100% support Chelly. But what I am curious is do you guys think he will want to retire here? If the day comes when management says, "no room for you" will he move on or retire? Or do you think he is aware enough of his own ability to know when he is no longer useful and will retire before he ever has to face a situationof being cut?

[imisssergei 0]

Are you dismissing his whole year on that single mistake? Please.

He does step up his game. He's made a career out of being clutch and making the big save. Even when he has a terrible period, there's a point where he just shuts the door and seals the W. You must see it, I assume you've been watching the team this year.

Yes I have seen it. He did it against the Ducks. What I am saying is this, we are now seeing more of the Dom who lets us down than the Dom who gets it done. We would be no worse for ware with Osgood in net and Howard and or Liv backing him up next year.

I will state that for what he brings to the ice, and for the price he brings it ... I 100% support Chelly. But what I am curious is do you guys think he will want to retire here? If the day comes when management says, "no room for you" will he move on or retire? Or do you think he is aware enough of his own ability to know when he is no longer useful and will retire before he ever has to face a situationof being cut?

With the combonation of Cheli and the Wings both being Class Acts, I think that a situation where Cheli wanted to come back, but wasn't welcome just wouldn't happen. Cheli, unlike many aging vets, has changed his game to fit a necessary roll. He doesn't complain about ice time. He just does his job on the ice, and helps bring along the next generation of Wings dmen. Cheli will know what it's time to hang them up. I wouldn't be surprised to see him hang 'em up after this season, but then again, I wouldn't be surprised to see him 2 years from now on the PK unit.

[Heroes of Hockeytown 694]

Yes I have seen it. He did it against the Ducks. What I am saying is this, we are now seeing more of the Dom who lets us down than the Dom who gets it done.

It's one thing to say he's over-the-hill, past his prime, not as good as he once was. Those are all true. But he doesn't "let us down" more than he "gets it done." The record speaks for itself. Compare it to our record with the other guys manning the nets.

We would be no worse for ware with Osgood in net and Howard and or Liv backing him up next year.

I will respectfully disagree that changing hands from two Stanley Cup winning goalies (that have led us thus far to one of the best records in the league) to one and a rook is a lateral move.

[Kp-Wings 3]

The Hasek to Joseph/Belfour comparisons are pretty lame. Neither of these guys are having very good years at all. Granted, a bad team can really expose a goalie sometimes, but these two have let in some pretty weak goals this year that the defense can't really do anything about.

[imisssergei 0]

It's one thing to say he's over-the-hill, past his prime, not as good as he once was. Those are all true. But he doesn't "let us down" more than he "gets it done." The record speaks for itself. Compare it to our record with the other guys manning the nets.

I will respectfully disagree that changing hands from two Stanley Cup winning goalies (that have led us thus far to one of the best records in the league) to one and a rook is a lateral move.

Let's be honest, both of those Cup years we could have still won if Holland strapped the pads back on and hopped in net. Dom has gotten worse and worse every year for the past 3-5 years. For some reason he thinks he can skate well enough to play the puck, he thinks he can draw a penalty every time he dives. I wish that refs would start calling unsportsmenlike conduct on Dom so he'd quit putting his team in bad situations.

Yes, Dom was once a great goalie. Osgood is still a solid goaltender. There is supposed to be a huge upside to Howard, and we all saw what Liv did with Sweden. I think we could do no worse next year, as Dom undoubtedly will regress even more.

[Heroes of Hockeytown 694]

Let's be honest, both of those Cup years we could have still won if Holland strapped the pads back on and hopped in net.

You fail.

[arin 0]

It all depends on who I think should stay. If Lang & Schneider took major paycuts, they can come back anyday. If Datsyuk stinks it up in the playoffs again then see what kind of similiar player can be had on the FA market. If we can't get anyone to replace Dats, he's gotta be resigned. He has won many a regular season game for us and is a major part in GETTING to the playoffs. And after a quick scan of the 07 FAs, there really arent many players on his level available. Selanne would be AWESOME if we could get him in under the cap, but he seems to be about the only player that could replace Datsyuk's production.

The only player I really dont want back for any reason is Maltby. We have players that can take his place in the system.

I'd like to see Bert, Calder, and Chelios back for sure. Hasek would be nice to come back if he would agree to backup/split time with Howard if he's ready.

If Schneider, Lang, and Markov don't take paycuts they can walk. Depends on how our D prospects are going, though.

[imisssergei 0]

You fail.

Hah, fail what? To agree with you? That's the great thing about a discussion, I'm not sure if you are aware of this. But sometimes, even when they don't agree with you, people are right. In this case, we will never know which one of us is right. If Dom and Ozzie come back, we will see what they can do, but never know what Ozzie and Howard/Liv could have done, and visa versa. Sure, I guess I did fail to get my head far enough up my ass to totally ignore the general rules of discussion, I'll try harder next time. Just for you.

[russianswede919293 95]

Alright looking at our Free Agents For next year I think that:

Datsyuk...STAYS...PERIOD

Lang will be gone, no questions asked.

Maltby should be gone, because he isn't the player he once was and isn't worth any more than league min. Not only that but he doesn't bring enough to the lineup anymore to deserve a spot. He isn't the top penalty killer anymore, and I would rather have Cleary play with Draper.

Bertuzzi I have no idea about, it all depends on $$$ left after Datsyuk and how he does in the playoffs. I won't be upset if he leaves, but it would be nice to have him back.

Calder needs to accept a HUGE paycut to stay here and that means odds are he is gone, but so is the 1.6 million Williams would have had...and that goes into Datsyuks pocket...

Langfeld, I Don't care either way, Ellis I would like to see stay but again no harm if he leaves. And Hussey doesn't matter one way or the other.

on Defence:

Schneider may command too much in the way of money to keep him, which is a shame because I like him a lot.

Markov should be back, hopefully around the same price

Chelios will be back for pocket change again

Norton is gone...Fischer's salary is gone but we will still take care of the guy.

Goalies...Hasek I think is in this years playoffs for his last huurah, and I think the Ozzie misses starting article was Oz's way of saying, "I would like an opportunity to start, here or somewhere else" Which means his status depends on if the Wings will give him a shot as the starter.

[Heroes of Hockeytown 694]

Hah, fail what? To agree with you?

Goddamn right. Do you care to back up your ridiculous notion that the goaltending we received from Chris and Dominik weren't big parts of our Cup wins?

In this case, we will never know which one of us is right.

Let's see. Cups won with Oz and Dom in net: 2. Cups won with Holland in net: 0.

Guess you fail again.

Sure, I guess I did fail to get my head far enough up my ass to totally ignore the general rules of discussion, I'll try harder next time. Just for you.

f*** off, *******. You've yet to make a coherent argument beyond "lol hasek tha diver."

[imisssergei 0]

Alright looking at our Free Agents For next year I think that:

Datsyuk...STAYS...PERIOD

Lang will be gone, no questions asked.

Maltby should be gone, because he isn't the player he once was and isn't worth any more than league min. Not only that but he doesn't bring enough to the lineup anymore to deserve a spot. He isn't the top penalty killer anymore, and I would rather have Cleary play with Draper.

Bertuzzi I have no idea about, it all depends on $$$ left after Datsyuk and how he does in the playoffs. I won't be upset if he leaves, but it would be nice to have him back.

Calder needs to accept a HUGE paycut to stay here and that means odds are he is gone, but so is the 1.6 million Williams would have had...and that goes into Datsyuks pocket...

Langfeld, I Don't care either way, Ellis I would like to see stay but again no harm if he leaves. And Hussey doesn't matter one way or the other.

on Defence:

Schneider may command too much in the way of money to keep him, which is a shame because I like him a lot.

Markov should be back, hopefully around the same price

Chelios will be back for pocket change again

Norton is gone...Fischer's salary is gone but we will still take care of the guy.

Goalies...Hasek I think is in this years playoffs for his last huurah, and I think the Ozzie misses starting article was Oz's way of saying, "I would like an opportunity to start, here or somewhere else" Which means his status depends on if the Wings will give him a shot as the starter.

I just don't see a senario where Kenny lets Pav walk, but I could also see a team like the NYI overpaying to get him if they lose Smyth and/or Blake. I guess it'll all depend on how much he is asking, remember we have Zetterburg, Lidstrom, Betruzzi, Drapes, Lang, Scheinder, Cheli, Hudler, Kronwall, and Cleary's contracts expiring all within a short period of time, including this offseason. There isn't a whole lot money for Kenny to play with. It will surely be intersting what he does.

Goddamn right. Do you care to back up your ridiculous notion that the goaltending we received from Chris and Dominik weren't big parts of our Cup wins?

Let's see. Cups won with Oz and Dom in net: 2. Cups won with Holland in net: 0.

Guess you fail again.

f*** off, *******. You've yet to make a coherent argument beyond "lol hasek tha diver."

Slow down princess, looks like someone can't handle a debate. Have the democrats contacted you about the 2008 Presidential nomination yet? I'd respectfully decline if I were you.

Those two years we won the Cup, neither Osgood or Dom stole a series for us. Yeah, they played well, but my point was insert goalie 'A' we win the Cup, insert goalie 'B', same result. After all, since winning those Cups what have Dom and Ozzie done? That's right, not a damn thing. So go back to whatever chatroom you are stealing your arguments from, and ask someone to put together an argument for you that can hold some water.

[Heroes of Hockeytown 694]

Those two years we won the Cup, neither Osgood or Dom stole a series for us.

Excusing, for a moment, Hasek's series vs. the Avs and Osgood's 2nd place in Smythe voting: Is this a requirement to being a great goalie on a championship team?

Yeah, they played well, but my point was insert goalie 'A' we win the Cup, insert goalie 'B', same result.

You say this as if it dismisses the performance of goalie A and B. Or are you perhaps too obtuse to see that that same result was largely in part to quality netminding?

After all, since winning those Cups what have Dom and Ozzie done? That's right, not a damn thing.

Irrelevant. All that matters are the championship years.

Honestly, it's amazing that despite all the stats that support Detroit goalies having been great in this and championship seasons, despite accounts from teammates and that which was observed from fans such as ourselves, a dumbf*** like you managed to come to the assbackwards conclusion that these guys haven't been great.

[imisssergei 0]

Excusing, for a moment, Hasek's series vs. the Avs and Osgood's 2nd place in Smythe voting: Is this a requirement to being a great goalie on a championship team?

You say this as if it dismisses the performance of goalie A and B. Or are you perhaps too obtuse to see that that same result was largely in part to quality netminding?

Irrelevant. All that matters are the championship years.

Honestly, it's amazing that despite all the stats that support Detroit goalies having been great in this and championship seasons, despite accounts from teammates and that which was observed from fans such as ourselves, a dumbf*** like you managed to come to the assbackwards conclusion that these guys haven't been great.

Hasek didn't steal the series, and Osgood was second in voting, big deal. The second place guy is just an honorable mention, and on that team there could have been any number of guys who won the trophy. But they didn't. I am not denying the fact that it takes quality goaltending to win a Cup, rather that on those teams any average or better goaltender would have gotten the job done.

And no, what they have done since is not irrelevent THAT IS WHAT WE ARE TALKING ABOUT!!!!!! Do you even make sense to you? My god, if you could get any ideas down in a coherent fashion, you may be able to come up with a solid argument. But you can't.

This is why you wouldn't cut it as a GM, or even a scout. You are thinking too much with your 'heart', adn not enough with facts. The facts, or numbers in this case, show that Dom is not that much better, if at all, than Osgood. Go look at the top 10 goalies in Sv%. You won't find Dom's name. You won't find Osgood's name. But you what you will find (ignoring the one game wonders) is a list of the top goalies this year. Detroit is in need of a quality number one, which Hasek is not. Seriously, he isn't even a number one!! He didn't even go on how many road trips? And how many back to back games did he sit just beacsuse?

You should get off the internet, I think I hear your mom calling you, it's dinner time sparky. Stop making yourself look foolish.

[Guest Crymson]

Hasek didn't steal the series, and Osgood was second in voting, big deal. The second place guy is just an honorable mention, and on that team there could have been any number of guys who won the trophy. But they didn't. I am not denying the fact that it takes quality goaltending to win a Cup, rather that on those teams any average or better goaltender would have gotten the job done.

And no, what they have done since is not irrelevent THAT IS WHAT WE ARE TALKING ABOUT!!!!!! Do you even make sense to you? My god, if you could get any ideas down in a coherent fashion, you may be able to come up with a solid argument. But you can't.

This is why you wouldn't cut it as a GM, or even a scout. You are thinking too much with your 'heart', adn not enough with facts. The facts, or numbers in this case, show that Dom is not that much better, if at all, than Osgood. Go look at the top 10 goalies in Sv%. You won't find Dom's name. You won't find Osgood's name. But you what you will find (ignoring the one game wonders) is a list of the top goalies this year. Detroit is in need of a quality number one, which Hasek is not. Seriously, he isn't even a number one!! He didn't even go on how many road trips? And how many back to back games did he sit just beacsuse?

You should get off the internet, I think I hear your mom calling you, it's dinner time sparky. Stop making yourself look foolish.

I challenge you to watch that series with the Avs and tell me that Hasek wasn't incredibly clutch. This especially held true in game 6, in which he probably was responsible for the Wings not being eliminated. He didn't even need to make 20 saves, but those which he DID make were INCREDIBLE.

This situation holds true this year, in terms of saves; Dom doesn't see many perimeter shots. What he sees are mostly good scoring chances. YES, this does affect his GAA. More weak shots= more saves= higher SV percentage. More good scoring chances = more goals = lower SV percentage.

Watch the games, and see how many incredible weak shots Hasek sees, as opposed to how many the opposing goaltender sees.

Hasek is one of the best goaltenders in the league. Take him or leave him, but VERY few other goalies make the sort of saves he does in tough situations, higher save percentage or not.

Better start watching hockey, dips***, and stop blatantly insulting those who know more because they actually watch games.