An Enforcer

[SouthernWingsFan 854]

I'll make this short and sweet. I want an enforcer out there. Im sick and tired of being pushed around with no consequences. Kopecky or someone else will just have to play in GR. We need an enforcer desperately.

No, we don't.

[Lou_Siffer 1]

We tried an enforcer last year (Brad Norton), and it didn't work out.

If you want someone to fight, and can also do other things and can contribute, then Scott Hartnell or Aaron Asham are your answers. Those two are the ones to look for.

Come on Kp, i was afraid this would happen! What i mean is people saying an enforcer wont work and citing Norton as their example. Brad Norton is a minor league fighter and nothing more, he is what you call a bad, BORING, AHL heavyweight. I cant stress boring enough, he is not a crowd pleaser by any means. Not a representation whatsoever of the impact a good fighter would or wouldnt make. Why he was even on the team to begin was because Holland doesnt know much about fighters.

Edited May 29, 2007 by Lou_Siffer

[Kp-Wings 3]

Come on Kp, i was afraid this would happen! What i mean is people saying an enforcer wont work and citing Norton as their example. Brad Norton is a minor league fighter and nothing more, he is what you call a bad, BORING, AHL heavyweight. I cant stress boring enough, he is not a crowd pleaser by any means. Not a representation whatsoever of the impact a good fighter would or wouldnt make. Why he was even on the team to begin was because Holland doesnt know much about fighters.

Yeah, but still. There are not many fighters in the league that don't blow in all other aspects of the game. I like fighting, as it's certainly entertaining. But some of these guys that I like to watch on other teams, I would never want on the Wings, because they aren't very good players. If there were more Chris Neil's or Aaron Asham's in the league, everything would be good.

Asham is avalible, and Lou, I'll be you'll agree with me that he'll be the best choice. He can average about 10-15 goals a season, and he fights a lot too. He'd be the best pickup the Wings could get in that catagory.

[Lou_Siffer 1]

Yeah, but still. There are not many fighters in the league that don't blow in all other aspects of the game. I like fighting, as it's certainly entertaining. But some of these guys that I like to watch on other teams, I would never want on the Wings, because they aren't very good players. If there were more Chris Neil's or Aaron Asham's in the league, everything would be good.

Asham is avalible, and Lou, I'll be you'll agree with me that he'll be the best choice. He can average about 10-15 goals a season, and he fights a lot too. He'd be the best pickup the Wings could get in that catagory.

Oh I am all for Asham, BIG TIME!! He's my #1 choice right now, I actually think he'd be a shoe-in for 15 goals on this team. If he were on a line with someone like Flip, i'd actually mark him down for 20.

[HockeyCrazy3033 168]

Asham would be nice, but for the love of GOD people..please stop saying Scott Hartnell. :puke:

There's a difference between an enforcer and a cheap shot artist.

Edited May 29, 2007 by HockeyCrazy3033

[Kp-Wings 3]

Asham would be nice, but for the love of GOD people..please stop saying Scott Hartnell. :puke:

There's a difference between an enforcer and a cheap shot artist.

Stop living in the stone age already. Hartnell plays cheap, because of the coach he's playing under. It is Barry Trotz, not the players (except Tootoo). I mean, when you have Alex Radulov going out and doing dirty stuff, you know it must be the coach.

Hartnell would be a great fit here. For God sakes, the man has the potential to be a 30 goal scorer and he plays with grit. He's not Chris Pronger, ok? He's fixable.

Oh I am all for Asham, BIG TIME!! He's my #1 choice right now, I actually think he'd be a shoe-in for 15 goals on this team. If he were on a line with someone like Flip, i'd actually mark him down for 20.

Oh, definitly. Him and Flip would have great chemistry together. They'd be great for providing some offense to the 3rd or 4th line, being whichever one Babcock would put them in.

[vangvace 12]

We tried an enforcer last year (Brad Norton), and it didn't work out.

:nonono:: Yup because the fourth line is were all the scoring comes from.

But I think Detroit shed the "softest team in the NHL" tag with their run this spring.

not yet... not by a long shot. The playoffs proved a step in the right direction, but the regular season was just too glaringly soft, weak, and eurosoccer... Again, thankfully the playoffs should that they have grit now to drop the purses and get tough.

What pisses me off about people saying the Red Wings are ******* because they don't fight a lot is that there not the only team that didn't fight a lot during the regular season, yet the Wings always get singled out. While the Wings only had 13 fights during the regular season and 19 in total(Got facts off DYG.com), the Islanders only had 18 fights during the regular season and 20 in total, the canadiens only had 19 during the regular season and 22 in total, the Wild only had 18 during the regular season and 26 in total, and the Avalanche only had 24 during the regular season and 29 in total. Yet no one talks about the Islanders, Canadiens, Wild, or Avalanche not fighting a lot.

Three things here:

First, go back more than one season if your going to complain like that. More below

Second, DYG.com counts anything and everything they can as a fight. Hell, they prob counted every time Holstrom was in front of a net. Try someplace more reputable like Fried Chicken's or Hockeyfights.com...

A fight isn't a fight without a fighting major.

Finally, Detroit's been at or near the bottom since Kocur left. The others you listed... not so much.

There's not many players out there that can play and fight. Look at Parros' role on the Ducks; he's not doing much in the playoffs from the press box. Guys that can skate and hold their own in fights are few and far between. A Chris Neil type would be ideal, which is why Ottawa won't be letting him go any time soon.

Parros did his part though... between both of the cup finalists there are 5 players who faught more then Detroit's regulars did as a whole did

Interesting article:

Lemaire on next year

Reminder article: (Specifically note the parts on Wings injuries)

Wings getting ran... again

Finally some numbers brought to you by hockeyfights.com:

Last time the Wings weren't last in fighting: 2000-2001 season

Fighting majors over the last twoseasons by Wings regulars... 10. By god at least it was double digits.

Fighting Majors for the '97 and '98 Cups: 88

Detroit used to be a bastion for tough hockey... now it's "team toughness" and "his getting suspended for knocking out our guy"

How about getting an enforcer to help ensure that the players that matter are healthy come playoff time... but hell, let's let the league and refs make sure that our guys don't get hurt because it has worked out so well for us so far.

[Guest DetroitIan]

No, we don't.

Yeah you're right, lets just continue to be disresepcted, and pushed around, and roughed up. While 31 other NHL teams can totally combat that. Hell even in the playoffs teams wouldn't stop the dirty classless play against us. Wanna know why? Cause they know they can. Because we have NO ONE that can do a damn thing about it. If we bring in a Laraque type player, just watch how quickly that sorta bulls*** comes to an end. But no thats not what we need at all.

[BlueMonk 102]

I'm definitely in favor of having an enforcer. But everyone knows that already.

[Lou_Siffer 1]

Vangvace is definitely my kinda poster! Well done

[HockeyCrazy3033 168]

Stop living in the stone age already. Hartnell plays cheap, because of the coach he's playing under. It is Barry Trotz, not the players (except Tootoo). I mean, when you have Alex Radulov going out and doing dirty stuff, you know it must be the coach.

Hartnell would be a great fit here. For God sakes, the man has the potential to be a 30 goal scorer and he plays with grit. He's not Chris Pronger, ok? He's fixable.

I don't think I could possibly disagree more. Since when was Trotz looked at as a coach that tells his players to go around throwing cheap shots? I could of sworn near the end of the season Barry had a talk with Hartnell about his stupid antics. The whole playing cheap because of who's coaching him is a pretty lame excuse. I don't buy it for a second. Hartnell has ALWAYS been a dirty player. He's known for it. How many times does the guy constantly try and take someone's knees out? He took a cheap shot on Fischer and he tore his ACL and was out for the entire season. He did the exact same thing to Chelios the year before that. Then he takes a run at Manny two seasons ago in which he ends up in the hospital, and the second they replace him with Cujo he takes a run at him as well. He's a piece of s*** and I cannot stand him for the life of me. I don't care how much the guy can score,his crap shouldn't be tolerated period. The guy plays with an intent to injure the opposing teams best players. I would be completely disgusted if the Wings even thought of going after him.

I don't even want to talk about this piece of crap anmyore. I can't stand him for the life of me.

[Detroit # 1 Fan 2,204]

I wouldnt call them fighters exactly , But after watching these playoffs. I'd love to have Travis Moen and Rob Niedermayer on the wings

[joshy207 156]

I'm in favor of having a deterrent on the team. It should be someone who can actually play and can handle the league's bigger fighters... we haven't had a heavyweight here since Probert... Kocur's second tenure here wasn't as a full-time fighter, his knuckles couldn't handle that.

I've said it before, but look at the treatment Yzerman got in the 2002 playoffs, especially from Vancouver. They hammered him every chance they got, no matter how long it had been since he touched the puck. Then they'd stand over him and knock him down when he was trying to get back up. Why? Because nobody would stand up to them. It's a wonder Yzerman was able to even play in the playoffs, but how he got through that series is between him, the trainers, and God.

We can talk about retaliating against cheap hits like Pronger on Holmstrom, but if you put a real ass-beater on the bench, most of those hits won't happen in the first place.

[Lou_Siffer 1]

I wouldnt call them fighters exactly , But after watching these playoffs. I'd love to have Travis Moen and Rob Niedermayer on the wings

Moen absolutely is a fighter, Neidermayer no. I wish the Wings would take chances with these guys like Moen, get them into the system and try and develop them. Moen wasnt much when the Ducks got him, look at him now. Kills penalties, is part of the checking line, knocks in key goals...

But instead, we get guys like Hussey in the minors. Whats the point!

[Detroit # 1 Fan 2,204]

Moen absolutely is a fighter, Neidermayer no. I wish the Wings would take chances with these guys like Moen, get them into the system and try and develop them. Moen wasnt much when the Ducks got him, look at him now. Kills penalties, is part of the checking line, knocks in key goals...

But instead, we get guys like Hussey in the minors. Whats the point!

Last fighter we had in the system was McCarty , and back then he was like a better version of Neil. I remeber his first game the pre-season of 94 when we were facing Chicago , and he fought like everyone that was within his range.

Anyways , I wish we had offered Chicago a 4th for Moen , thats all aniheim gave up for him. what a sweet line Asham-Filpula-Moen would be

Edited May 29, 2007 by Detroit # 1 Fan

[SouthernWingsFan 854]

Yeah you're right, lets just continue to be disresepcted, and pushed around, and roughed up. While 31 other NHL teams can totally combat that. Hell even in the playoffs teams wouldn't stop the dirty classless play against us. Wanna know why? Cause they know they can. Because we have NO ONE that can do a damn thing about it. If we bring in a Laraque type player, just watch how quickly that sorta bulls*** comes to an end. But no thats not what we need at all.

An enforcer cannot stop all dirty plays from happening. An enforcer would not have prevented the Pronger to Holmstrom incident from happening.

I don't want an enforcer just for the sake of getting an enforcer,It shoudn't be a high priority on Holland's A-list just because it will make everybody on LetsGoWings.com do jumping jakcs.

This team showed they have toughness and won't back down from everybody when they beat "tough" teams Calgary and San Jose.

And they did it WITHOUT AN ENFORCER.

An enforcer that just wastes away 3 minutes of playing time on the ice during the regular season, and the playoffs were fights are few and far between, is not high on my priority list, and I highly doubt it is highly on Holland's list either.

And somehow, I can guarantee you my post will be misperceived that I want the Wings to be soft pansies.

[DaKineMaui 8]

We can talk about retaliating against cheap hits like Pronger on Holmstrom, but if you put a real ass-beater on the bench, most of those hits won't happen in the first place.

Again, please read the ^^above post^^ 100x and have a full report about it on my desk first thing thing the morning.

thank you.

[Kp-Wings 3]

I don't think I could possibly disagree more. Since when was Trotz looked at as a coach that tells his players to go around throwing cheap shots? I could of sworn near the end of the season Barry had a talk with Hartnell about his stupid antics. The whole playing cheap because of who's coaching him is a pretty lame excuse. I don't buy it for a second. Hartnell has ALWAYS been a dirty player. He's known for it. How many times does the guy constantly try and take someone's knees out? He took a cheap shot on Fischer and he tore his ACL and was out for the entire season. He did the exact same thing to Chelios the year before that. Then he takes a run at Manny two seasons ago in which he ends up in the hospital, and the second they replace him with Cujo he takes a run at him as well. He's a piece of s*** and I cannot stand him for the life of me. I don't care how much the guy can score,his crap shouldn't be tolerated period. The guy plays with an intent to injure the opposing teams best players. I would be completely disgusted if the Wings even thought of going after him.

I don't even want to talk about this piece of crap anmyore. I can't stand him for the life of me.

Oh please. You can't put that past the fact that Hartnell would undoubtably make this team better? Funny, everyone else can.

I'll bet you considered Bertuzzi a piece of s*** before he came here too. Now, you praise him and want him re-signed! Kettle, meet pot.

I love Bertuzzi, but I won't deny he has done some dirty things in his career also, Steve Moore notwithstanding. I feel that, if you're going to like Bertuzzi, Hartnell shouldn't be that far off. But no, I guess that point means nothing, does it?

I'm tired of all the people on here who cheer on Bertuzzi, yet when the name Hartnell is mentioned, it's like I'm calling in the Crows of Deathâ„¢. I mean, seriously. I've hated Hartnell too, but if he did come here, I can manage to grow up and put what he did before behind me. Can you?

But instead, we get guys like Hussey in the minors. Whats the point!

The sole purpose of signing Hussey was for an extra player in GR. There was no real intention of giving a roster spot on the Wings to Hussey.

[Guest DetroitIan]

Hartnell is a good player, and there is no doubt about it. But to say Hartnell is an enforcer is completely laughable. Not even close. Any real enforcer in the NHL would absolutely DESTROY Hartnell in a fight.

[HockeyCrazy3033 168]

Oh please. You can't put that past the fact that Hartnell would undoubtably make this team better? Funny, everyone else can.

I'll bet you considered Bertuzzi a piece of s*** before he came here too. Now, you praise him and want him re-signed! Kettle, meet pot.

I love Bertuzzi, but I won't deny he has done some dirty things in his career also, Steve Moore notwithstanding. I feel that, if you're going to like Bertuzzi, Hartnell shouldn't be that far off. But no, I guess that point means nothing, does it?

I'm tired of all the people on here who cheer on Bertuzzi, yet when the name Hartnell is mentioned, it's like I'm calling in the Crows of Deathâ„¢. I mean, seriously. I've hated Hartnell too, but if he did come here, I can manage to grow up and put what he did before behind me. Can you?

No. I guess I wouldn't be able to 'grow up' then. I've never had a problem with Bertuzzi until the incident happened. Sure I disliked the way he played against the Wings because he was so damn good out there, and such a pain in the ass, but I always thought he was a great player, and always wondered what it would be like to have him on our team.

The only reason I got passed Bertuzzi's incident is because he does seem to be genuinely sorry. He's over it, and has moved on.

Everyone has a player in which they wouldn't be able to stand being on the Wings. For me that player is Hartnell. That's my opinion, and im sticking with it.

Hartnell is a good player, and there is no doubt about it. But to say Hartnell is an enforcer is completely laughable. Not even close. Any real enforcer in the NHL would absolutely DESTROY Hartnell in a fight.

Fischer completely pummeled him, and made him turtle. That right there says a lot, because it was only Jiri's second fight in the NHL, and in his fight before, Thornton destroyed him.

[Izzy24 44]

SouthernWingsFan if you had your way the Wings would be a team of soft pansies!

[DaKineMaui 8]

Everyone has a player in which they wouldn't be able to stand being on the Wings. For me that player is Hartnell. That's my opinion, and im sticking with it.

HEY!

Can you start a new topic about this? Just for our off-season fun?

"The player I would NEVER want on the Wings? EVER EVER EVER?"

Mine is Guy Lafleur.

[SouthernWingsFan 854]

SouthernWingsFan if you had your way the Wings would be a team of soft pansies!

*shrugs*

[skacore 2]

Hartnell would be a welcomed addition but the guy can hardly fight, he would be here for point production and physical play. And from what I've seen, Asham is hardly a physical presence on the ice, he is a great middleweight fighter, but he isn't much of a hitter/forechecker and most of his fights are meaningless

The only two "enforcers" I would like to see the Wings pick up through free agency this year are Todd Fedoruk and Chris Simon, they can fight anyone in the league and take a regular shift, and both would be under 1 million

Fischer completely pummeled him, and made him turtle. That right there says a lot, because it was only Jiri's second fight in the NHL, and in his fight before, Thornton destroyed him.

huh? no, Fischer had a hand full of fights before and after the Thornton beating and the Hartnell TKO

[HockeyCrazy3033 168]

Hartnell would be a welcomed addition but the guy can hardly fight, he would be here for point production and physical play. And from what I've seen, Asham is hardly a physical presence on the ice, he is a great middleweight fighter, but he isn't much of a hitter/forechecker and most of his fights are meaningless

The only two "enforcers" I would like to see the Wings pick up through free agency this year are Todd Fedoruk and Chris Simon, they can fight anyone in the league and take a regular shift, and both would be under 1 million

huh? no, Fischer had a hand full of fights before and after the Thornton beating and the Hartnell TKO

Not from what I recall. I remember Thornton being his first fight. After that I remember them saying he needed to learn how to fight before he got into one before. I'm sure he fought after Hartnell..but I could of sworn it was only his 2nd fight at that time. Hmm...

EDIT: You are correct! Damn..I didn't realize he fought that many times.

http://www.geocities.com/jirifischer2/hockey.htm

I WANT TO SEE BERT VS. FISCH video clip nowww. I completely forgot about that one.

Edited May 29, 2007 by HockeyCrazy3033