Ducks; A disgrace to NHL? Trend for good ol' hockey going to the

[Guest Shoreline]

Ehmm... errr... you've been watching hockey since '93?

And you think hockey was CLEANER BITD?! mmmkay. Scott Stevens' hits were admittedly far cleaner than, say, Pronger's, but he was no less a brutal headhunter. Probie was there for only one thing: bad arse bodyguard to Stevie. Hell, even Vladddie said himself that he felt his role was primarily to stop the other guy from thinking about scoring-- a pest.

Please don't revise our proud hockey history. I don't know what you've been told/have seen about the past, but don't go all grandaddy'-ish "in MY day, it was so much better" on us. It wasn't cleaner, it wasn't more honest.

We just knew what to expect a little bit better than with our "New NHL Rules."

(and we used to have to walk 20 miles in a blizzard just to get tickets....! and then stand outside the Joe for a week before they opened the doors...! sometimes our toes froze to the pavement, but we were TOUGH back then, by cracky!)

Yes, it was cleaner. It isn't that they didn't have fights or physical play at all. Unfortunately for you, it looks like you took my post completely the wrong way. The game was far less physical. Far less intense. Far less fast-paced. The focus of the game has shifted dramatically as well, from offensive-minded first, to defensive-minded first. It is partly due to the evolution of sports -- no different than the NFL, or NBA as time went on, where the players got bigger, stronger, faster. Another difference was respect was also enforced on the field, or on the ice, or court. One factor can't solely attribute to it, nor can I (or will I) in one post totally define what the difference is now. However, in the games I've watched of old, I can assuredly say I enjoyed the 80s/early 90s hockey was far more enjoyable (and respectful) to me than the new hockey. Not that I don't enjoy it now. I just don't like any sport that changes to a far less entertaining, defensive style. People don't come to see 0-0 scores.

Anyways, teams like Nashville and Calgary benefit from the intimidation a team has from people who play reckless hockey, playing the body before puck -- rather than a team being afraid of skill, like before. People feared Gretzky because he just found a way to put the puck into the back of the net, and wouldn't be stopped. Also, because there were repercussions on the ice if anyone cheap-shotted him, with no intervention. Now, those players like the McSorely's (while a few things he did was not something I'd condone) are severely penalized, so dirty players can hide behind those new rules. There is no revising of hockey history here. You just clearly don't like the message I'm sending.

[theman19 47]

with all due respect to the people bashing this thread most of what mr. sandman quotes comes from the AP. These arn't just his personal opinions about how the ducks are playing it's getting attention everywhere. People around the league are wondering why the piss we had a lockout if this is what it brought us. The same clutch and grab, goon hockey we had before hand. If ottawa loses this series in similar fashion it's going to stir the pot. Now i'm not saying the wheels are going to fall off and everyone is going to rebel, but mark my words if this kinda crap contiunes into several seasons there will be some problems for the league.

[ladybugblue 0]

Besides Pronger and Geztlaff (really his entire line at times) are the players that seem to be into cheapshotting. The series overall has been very entertaining. The Ducks are playing physical which has been fun to watch besides the cheap stuff. Neil was a pain in the ass last night for Ottawa and got the Ducks off their game a little... you gotta' love that too. For me it all comes back to not being afraid to send someone out to let Pronger and Getzlaff know they won't be running around hitting our guys. There is still a place for that and there always should be or people like them will get away with this crap all the time.

How about adding Correy Perry and Brad May to your list...May gave a slew foot near the end of the game.

I wouldn't necessiarly say they are a dirty team but they do use illegal tactics, not hard to see given they have the most penalties. The first two games were no different than last night, but the Ottawa players weren't trying to skate through it all the first two games and didn't really fight through it. But last night they were skating and that's why the illegal tatics (hooking, obstruction, interference) showed up more.

I think the suspension will hurt them more than it did against the Red Wings. Ottawa will be at home and I think they will try and not let up...it helps that the media in Canada basically don't think Ottawa can win the series so they are using that to help them too.

[Guest Shoreline]

How about adding Correy Perry and Brad May to your list...May gave a slew foot near the end of the game.

I wouldn't necessiarly say they are a dirty team but they do use illegal tactics, not hard to see given they have the most penalties. The first two games were no different than last night, but the Ottawa players weren't trying to skate through it all the first two games and didn't really fight through it. But last night they were skating and that's why the illegal tatics (hooking, obstruction, interference) showed up more.

I think the suspension will hurt them more than it did against the Red Wings. Ottawa will be at home and I think they will try and not let up...it helps that the media in Canada basically don't think Ottawa can win the series so they are using that to help them too.

The Ducks would be crying foul, because they'd either have a guy in the box for 60 minutes of the game, or they'd be forced to actually play the game as the rules say. Sufficed to say, one team is getting away with half of the penalties they commit, while teams like the Wings and Sens are, for the most part, playing a far cleaner, less obstructing, more respectful game, and are paying for it by having injured players and losing. This is why I'm rooting for the Sens. The team that plays clean hockey should be the one winning.

[RedRockit 0]

Yes, it was cleaner. It isn't that they didn't have fights or physical play at all. Unfortunately for you, it looks like you took my post completely the wrong way. The game was far less physical. Far less intense. Far less fast-paced. The focus of the game has shifted dramatically as well, from offensive-minded first, to defensive-minded first. It is partly due to the evolution of sports -- no different than the NFL, or NBA as time went on, where the players got bigger, stronger, faster. Another difference was respect was also enforced on the field, or on the ice, or court. One factor can't solely attribute to it, nor can I (or will I) in one post totally define what the difference is now. However, in the games I've watched of old, I can assuredly say I enjoyed the 80s/early 90s hockey was far more enjoyable (and respectful) to me than the new hockey. Not that I don't enjoy it now. I just don't like any sport that changes to a far less entertaining, defensive style. People don't come to see 0-0 scores.

Anyways, teams like Nashville and Calgary benefit from the intimidation a team has from people who play reckless hockey, playing the body before puck -- rather than a team being afraid of skill, like before. People feared Gretzky because he just found a way to put the puck into the back of the net, and wouldn't be stopped. Also, because there were repercussions on the ice if anyone cheap-shotted him, with no intervention. Now, those players like the McSorely's (while a few things he did was not something I'd condone) are severely penalized, so dirty players can hide behind those new rules. There is no revising of hockey history here. You just clearly don't like the message I'm sending.

I don't UNDERSTAND the message you're sending, clearly. I'm trying to, but you seem still contradictory, and yes, still revisionist, to me.

"The game was far less physical. Far less intense. Far less fast-paced..." I suppose one could say that of any sport these days (as you did). Fact is, bigger and better-coached players, improved technology, and most importantly, improved technique have all contributed to that. Doesn't seem a problem, also doesn't seem relevant to this issue anyway.

If you consider the game historically "less physical," then that result came from the presence of enforcers.

The "respect" that you refer to was enforced in blood, guts, and fear. Period. Gretzky would have been half The Man were it not for Dave Semenko. Please know I'm not taking away his, or any other enforcers' role as a great player-- it took a great deal of skill to perform that role effectively.

Re your claim that "no one wants to watch a 0-0 game*: Game 2 of this series was extremely exciting to me, hanging-on-the-edge-of-my-seat excitinf-- I don't grok why people think fantastic D is not awesome to watch. I gather you dislike the Bowman style, however... and I hasten to say that it may not be a Good Thing to garner new fans to our fav sport. But hellyaa, I thought Game 2 was thrilling.

I still feel like I'm missing your point. Is it simply that you don't like the New NHL rules? If so, what threw me is that you talked about "nastiness of the last several seasons."

[RedRockit 0]

argh, embarassingly double postage.

Edited June 3, 2007 by RedRockit

[Guest REDWINGS4LYFE]

SANDMAN you whine more than my girlfriend that is saying sometthing

[OsGOD 3]

Sens deserve the cup just as much as hockeytown. Lord Stanley and Disneyland is an oxymoron. Mixes like oil and water.

Disney pulled out from this years goon squad... I, in part blame to pullout, for the now goonish team Anaheim places on the ice. I am seeing now Disney Pulled out not because of the Silly name (mighty ducks) but because they didn't like the direction the team was going in.

Edited June 3, 2007 by OsGOD

[RedRockit 0]

Disney pulled out from this years goon squad... I, in part blame to pullout, for the now goonish team Anaheim places on the ice. I am seeing now Disney Pulled out not because of the Silly name (mighty ducks) but because they didn't like the direction the team was going in.

Silly God! Disney only pulled out because they want to dedicate all their efforts into promoting their new team, based in Freeport, Bahamas.

Said team to be named Pirates of the Caribbean.

[OsGOD 3]

Silly God! Disney only pulled out because they want to dedicate all their efforts into promoting their new team, based in Freeport, Bahamas.

Said team to be named Pirates of the Caribbean.

Oh really? where do we sign up to be fans? I will be right there in line!

[DaKineMaui 8]

I only had to pay $10 to see a game, when I was a boy

Now its 10 - 20 times that.

Joke all you want! Early 80s my dad would grab a coupon from the Entertainment Book for tix to the new JLA. $11/seat....buy one get one.....($5.50 ea). Had a bahlast. Prolly did that a dozen times.

But back to hating the Ducks' style of play? Didn't this team make the finals recently? And then make the WCF? and THEN pick up Pronger and beat the Wings in the WCF?

I think if that timeline is correct - I can separate the player from the team.

[Guest Shoreline]

I don't UNDERSTAND the message you're sending, clearly. I'm trying to, but you seem still contradictory, and yes, still revisionist, to me.

"The game was far less physical. Far less intense. Far less fast-paced..." I suppose one could say that of any sport these days (as you did). Fact is, bigger and better-coached players, improved technology, and most importantly, improved technique have all contributed to that. Doesn't seem a problem, also doesn't seem relevant to this issue anyway.

If you consider the game historically "less physical," then that result came from the presence of enforcers.

The "respect" that you refer to was enforced in blood, guts, and fear. Period. Gretzky would have been half The Man were it not for Dave Semenko. Please know I'm not taking away his, or any other enforcers' role as a great player-- it took a great deal of skill to perform that role effectively.

Seems we agree in this respect.

Re your claim that "no one wants to watch a 0-0 game*: Game 2 of this series was extremely exciting to me, hanging-on-the-edge-of-my-seat excitinf-- I don't grok why people think fantastic D is not awesome to watch. I gather you dislike the Bowman style, however... and I hasten to say that it may not be a Good Thing to garner new fans to our fav sport. But hellyaa, I thought Game 2 was thrilling.

There are plenty who don't agree with you, not just for those who watched the game, but obviously the ones who didn't for the same reason:

http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/playoffs2007...tory?id=2888833

NEW YORK -- The Stanley Cup finals lost nearly a quarter of what already was a small television audience.

Anaheim's 1-0 victory over Ottawa in Game 2 on Wednesday night got a 0.6 cable rating on Versus and was watched in 446,000 homes in the United States.

The rating was down 33 percent from last year's second game, a 5-0 victory for Carolina over Edmonton, which received a 0.9 cable rating (600,000 homes) on OLN, as the same network was known then.

Through two games, the Stanley Cup finals averaged a 0.7 rating, down 22 percent from last year's 0.9, and households are down 20 percent, to 485,000 from 606,000 last year.

The remainder of the series will be broadcast by NBC, starting with Game 3 at Ottawa on Saturday night.

I still feel like I'm missing your point. Is it simply that you don't like the New NHL rules? If so, what threw me is that you talked about "nastiness of the last several seasons."

I like the rules. The rules, itself, are good. Making them has represented how progressive the league has been in making rules that better adapt to the gameplay of today (I love the tag-up rule, elimination of the red line, and so forth as well). It's the enforcement of penalties, and tolerance toward headshots, charging, and fighters going after those who don't fight (thanks, instigator rule) that allow teams like the Ducks, Preds, and Flames to do what they do with little (Pronger) or no (many others) repercussions. I see the good changes, but I also see the bad changes. The Ducks this season are a product of the bad; Senators, the good.

[RedRockit 0]

Oh really? where do we sign up to be fans? I will be right there in line!

What would you... hmmm? What would any of you be willing to do, hmmm? Would you sail to the ends of the Earth and beyond to fetch back tickets?

[kelloggfan 0]

"sour grapes" because the wings lost? give me a break!! A good hit is a good hit, we all enjoy good hockey but you can win without being dirty...that takes away from the majesty of the CUP!

Sure the ducks are playing great hockey but the cheap shots are classless and more should be done about it. How many times are you gonna let Pronger go with a slap on the hand? ONE GAME is chicken s***! This is two consecutive series. I realize that he is 6'6" but guess what, HE has to adjust, not the rest of the league!

Head shots should be a minimum 3 game suspension and more if an injury results from it. It doesn't matter who it is or what game it is, no exception. The NHL needs to get some balls.

Edited June 3, 2007 by kelloggfan

[lou 0]

GAHHH i saw somewhere in these forums that the best team has the cup at the end of the playoffs isnt that true? or they give it to the losers?

wings lost get over it sandman,,,, ottawa is maybe gonna lose ducks maybe gonna lose best team = stanley cup champions

best west team : ducks

beat east team: Ottawa

Edited June 3, 2007 by lou

[Kp-Wings 3]

Deleted

Edited June 3, 2007 by Kp-Wings

[GoWings1905 2,694]

GAHHH i saw somewhere in these forums that the best team has the cup at the end of the playoffs isnt that true? or they give it to the losers?

wings lost get over it sandman,,,, ottawa is maybe gonna lose ducks maybe gonna lose best team = stanley cup champions

best west team : ducks

beat east team: Ottawa

I like that stamp with Jiggy on it. They only put his face on it, because they couldn't fit his massive pads on the stamp. We aren't arguing that the Ducks aren't the best team, but instead the way they play(ed) to get there.

Edited June 3, 2007 by GoWings1905

[haroldsnepsts 4,826]

The only reason it would be a disgrace if the Ducks won the Cup is because of the interference tactics they've been successfully employing, especially in the finals.

so much for the new NHL.

Even on Pronger's elbow, it's because he was trying to run interference on a guy when he didn't have good positioning on him.

[OsGOD 3]

What would you... hmmm? What would any of you be willing to do, hmmm? Would you sail to the ends of the Earth and beyond to fetch back tickets?

Aye! However, I just hope my say, toe, doesn't fall off during artic part of our travel... that would be MOST unfortuante

But there is some truth to what ye say.... looky what I found

Edited June 3, 2007 by OsGOD

[Duckette 0]

Disney pulled out from this years goon squad... I, in part blame to pullout, for the now goonish team Anaheim places on the ice. I am seeing now Disney Pulled out not because of the Silly name (mighty ducks) but because they didn't like the direction the team was going in.

Uhh...Disney sold the Ducks during the lockout. They had been trying to sell them since before the 2002-03 season. The Ducks were owned by the Samuelis during the 2005-06 and 2006-07 seasons.

[OsGOD 3]

Uhh...Disney sold the Ducks during the lockout. They had been trying to sell them since before the 2002-03 season. The Ducks were owned by the Samuelis during the 2005-06 and 2006-07 seasons.

Like I said... they didn't like the direction the team was going (i.e. down the road of goonery and to become evil sith lords). So in fact I could be correct.

Edited June 3, 2007 by OsGOD

[SouthernWingsFan 854]

I still say Pronger is the only real big problem with the Ducks, not any of the other players.

They are not goons, they don't just intentionally beat the crap out of people just for the sake of it. They play physical, but I wouldn't call them head hunters by any stretch of the imagination. Not even close.

Pronger is the only problem with his infrequent cheap shots. However, this could be detrimental to his team in time because he is an alternate captain. He is supposed to be one of the leaders. He needs to lead by example. Head shots aren't a good example, and not taking responsibility that he screwed up on the Holmstrom hit is a bad example. I will be really, really disappointed in him if he doesn't take responsibility for this incident.

And it is a shame that the Ducks potentially winning a Cup could be tarnsihed by Pronger's questionable hits, because the idiotic plays that Pronger has committed does not fully define what the Ducks organization is about.

Pronger is the only main problem.

[OsGOD 3]

I still say Pronger is the only real big problem with the Ducks, not any of the other players.

They are not goons, they don't just intentionally beat the crap out of people just for the sake of it. They play physical, but I wouldn't call them head hunters by any stretch of the imagination. Not even close.

Pronger is the only problem with his infrequent cheap shots. However, this could be detrimental to his team in time because he is an alternate captain. He is supposed to be one of the leaders. He needs to lead by example. Head shots aren't a good example, and not taking responsibility that he screwed up on the Holmstrom hit is a bad example. I will be really, really disappointed in him if he doesn't take responsibility for this incident.

And it is a shame that the Ducks potentially winning a Cup could be tarnsihed by Pronger's questionable hits, because the idiotic plays that Pronger has committed does not fully define what the Ducks organization is about.

Pronger is the only main problem.

However, as you pointed out... it seems almost as the org does want to be know for goonery and cheap shots after naming a said player with so much history of questionable hits in the NHL as one of the three poster boys (i.e. captains) If they didn't stand for that type of play he WOULD NOT have been given a leading role. We are NOT talking about a player who maybe lost his mind for a split second and did the unthinkable. We are talking about a player with a long history of questionable hits and playoff suspensions.

Their actions (choosing him as a captain to represent their team if the real captain is out) speaks louder than some peoples words ( they don't want to be know for this type of horrible play)

I am sorry, I just don't see the Ducks being clean at all... Their management is at the point now where they will do anything to get their name on the cup for the 1st time.... Including breaking all the rules whenever they possibly can.

You are a leader by example and you make a leader those whom you want to be a reflection of yourself.

So you don't have an issue with the obstruction tactics they're getting away with?

I don't remember what game it was... but remember Penner or Perry laying on top of Hasek and swating him in the helmet? That's not a tactic a talented team would use.

Yeah... that play was brushed off by EVERYONE as just playing hard going to the net

Edited June 4, 2007 by OsGOD

[lou 0]

err so much ish... watch the ducks are gonna win the cup and they are going to highlight and put pronger's name in all caps along with JS's name

[SouthernWingsFan 854]

So you don't have an issue with the obstruction tactics they're getting away with?

You sound like obstruction in the game is a brand new invention. Is it legal, no, but you post like the Ducks are the only team in the history of the planet to do this. This has been going on in the league for a while and it isn't going away anytime soon. Sorry, I don't take a camera and analyze every single detail of every single play, I'd rather enjoy the games instead of figuing out what is constantly wrong with a team taking notes every 30 seconds. Not worth my time and heartburn. The Ducks play aggressive but people, especially you, are just overblowing how they play completely because of Pronger's stupid decisions. I can guarantee you if the Wings were in the Finals and played physical (I already know you are going to come back at me with BUT THE WINGS DON'T PLAY LIKE THAT, they are perfect honorable gentlemen, etc., so save it), people would be brushing it aside and defending the Wings actions saying "Them's the breaks, we got to play physical to play this game and win." Etc. etc.

I don't remember what game it was... but remember Penner or Perry laying on top of Hasek and swating him in the helmet? That's not a tactic a talented team would use.

Don't remember seeing that.

Sorry, but you are letting the dispicable actions of one person to just completely overdramtize and overanalyze how a team plays.

*awaits you don't know hockey comment and you haven't watched past games comments*

Edited June 4, 2007 by SouthernWingsFan