Predators not being sold?

[bogeygolfer 4]

Kansa city or Hamilton, the team is moving

[RedFX 48]

Kansa city or Hamilton, the team is moving

Well it for sure won't be Kansas City. Will Del Baggio, who has exclusive rights to a Kansas City NHL Franchise, has said he is no longer interested in buying the team. Del Baggio had been competing with Balsillie for the team and even with the door open again, he will not make an offer.

[RedFX 48]

So what does that idiot Leipold do with the Preds? Is he trying to hardball Balsillie for even more $$$

Looks to me like Balsillie could potentially make a lower offer since there doesn't appear to be any significant interest in the franchise from any other source whom is capable of affording it

Money is not the issue for Balsillie. He just wants his team in Canada. The NHL has told him he probably won't be able to move the team, so he is starting to become a little more hesitant with the deal.

The other group you mentioned has yet to come forward. They had talked to Leipold and had even started to collect money from various investors. But as of now, they have no formal offer.

[vangvace 12]

Isn't there a group from Nashville that is rumored to be buying the franchise? Dunno if these guys have the coin?

Yes, but they're not allowed to put in an offer till Balsille's offer sheet is formally withdrawn from what I understand.

[Legionnaire11 0]

Yes, but they're not allowed to put in an offer till Balsille's offer sheet is formally withdrawn from what I understand.

no, the exclusivity period expired last week. The local group is looking for one more big name to join them, and then they'll probably make an offer.

I read somewhere, some canadian article, that Balsillie may eventually pull out of this one and go after the Thrashers. I wish he'd just get an expansion team in hamilton instead of trying to rip a team from everyone else.

[BringHomeTheCup! 0]

no, the exclusivity period expired last week. The local group is looking for one more big name to join them, and then they'll probably make an offer.

I read somewhere, some canadian article, that Balsillie may eventually pull out of this one and go after the Thrashers. I wish he'd just get an expansion team in hamilton instead of trying to rip a team from everyone else.

I would agree with this for most teams, and I understand it's your team he is trying to steal. However a team that is in the running for 1st overall in the league all year long only drawing 14,000? That's just wrong. Florida, Phoenix, Pittsburgh a few years ago. These terrible tems have an excuse to not have fans.

If a city isn't going to come out and support a team that is at the top of it's sport, what's the point? I say move all these teams that can't get fans. Canada, North Western U.S., hell even a few more out in New England. If Bettman really wants to see hockey grow, and average attendance rise, then he should put teams places where fans will come. This idea of trying to place teams where people don't like hockey, and crossing his fingers in hopes that it will catch on it idiotic.

It's like Bettman is a farmer. His crop of choice is potatoes. We all know about Idaho and potatoes. But instead of buying some land out in Idaho, Bettman thinks to himself, "If I can only get these things to grow where they don't grow, and people don't like them. Maybe then the people will like them, and I'll sell a lot of potatoes." So he chooses to move out to Siberia. Only the potatoes don't grow. The climate isn't correct. But instead of cutting his losses, and moving somewhere that he could grow potatoes, say North Dakota, he chooses to keep his potato farm in Siberia. Saying that it's only a matter of time before they start to grow.

I feel for you, I really do. But I'm more concerned with the NHL growing, and getting better T.V. deals. There aren't enough people who honestly give two s***s about the Preds. IMO, move them.

[RedFX 48]

From what I understand the NHL cannot keep Balsillie from moving the team; there's potential though for the owners to veto the sale, but I doubt that'll happen (potential vetos from Toronto, & Buffalo won't be enough to stop the sale).

This is why the NHL is looked upon by many outsiders as a "Hack League" as to how it's being run.

Isn't there a group from Nashville that is rumored to be buying the franchise? Dunno if these guys have the coin?

The league must approve any relocation, and the reason Balsillie backed out of the Pittsburgh deal is because Bettman told him he can't move the team for seven years. Bettman is expected to tell him the same, broken lease or not.

I would agree with this for most teams, and I understand it's your team he is trying to steal. However a team that is in the running for 1st overall in the league all year long only drawing 14,000? That's just wrong. Florida, Phoenix, Pittsburgh a few years ago. These terrible tems have an excuse to not have fans.

If a city isn't going to come out and support a team that is at the top of it's sport, what's the point? I say move all these teams that can't get fans. Canada, North Western U.S., hell even a few more out in New England. If Bettman really wants to see hockey grow, and average attendance rise, then he should put teams places where fans will come. This idea of trying to place teams where people don't like hockey, and crossing his fingers in hopes that it will catch on it idiotic.

I think people are misunderstanding the attendance thing. Just because Nashville had a 13,800 average attendance doesn't mean the arena was only three-fifths full every night. They had 16 sellouts during the regular season and sold out all three playoff games. Whenever a division rival or a big name team like Colorado or Dallas comes to town, they usually bring in alot of fans. However, when a team like Los Angeles or Phoenix comes in, they bring in anywhere from 10,000 to 12,000. The stands are either jammed packed or empty, and because the arena is smaller than most, the sellouts can't really counter out those 10,000 fan games.

[BringHomeTheCup! 0]

The league must approve any relocation, and the reason Balsillie backed out of the Pittsburgh deal is because Bettman told him he can't move the team for seven years. Bettman is expected to tell him the same, broken lease or not.

I think people are misunderstanding the attendance thing. Just because Nashville had a 13,800 average attendance doesn't mean the arena was only three-fifths full every night. They had 16 sellouts during the regular season and sold out all three playoff games. Whenever a division rival or a big name team like Colorado or Dallas comes to town, they usually bring in alot of fans. However, when a team like Los Angeles or Phoenix comes in, they bring in anywhere from 10,000 to 12,000. The stands are either jammed packed or empty, and because the arena is smaller than most, the sellouts can't really counter out those 10,000 fan games.

Having a bad team come into town is no excuse for not selling out. Especially since it's pretty much the first time the Preds have been that good.

Anyone remember how hard it was to get Wings tickets when they started to climb? Let me refresh your memory, it was all but impossible. I don't expect Nashville to sell out every game, but the arena should never be as empty as it is for most games.

Curiously, how many does the GET seat?

[RedFX 48]

Curiously, how many does the GET seat?

The Sommet Center (formerly the GEC) seats just over 17,000.

Having a bad team come into town is no excuse for not selling out. Especially since it's pretty much the first time the Preds have been that good.

Anyone remember how hard it was to get Wings tickets when they started to climb? Let me refresh your memory, it was all but impossible. I don't expect Nashville to sell out every game, but the arena should never be as empty as it is for most games.

Curiously, how many does the GET seat?

Let's put it this way. Why would you pay to see the last-place Coyotes when you can pay the same amount to see the Wings two days later.

Speaking of the Wings, how packed is that lower bowl at the Joe during a Phoenix game?

[BringHomeTheCup! 0]

The Sommet Center (formerly the GEC) seats just over 17,000.

Let's put it this way. Why would you pay to see the last-place Coyotes when you can pay the same amount to see the Wings two days later.

Speaking of the Wings, how packed is that lower bowl at the Joe during a Phoenix game?

The Joe seats about 20K. I was at the Phoenix game when Detroit put up 9. Half way through the second, people started leaving, by the middle of the third, there were still more than 10k there.

As for how many people go to the games, I couldn't tell you. But I can tell you that the tickets sell. I don't think Detroit had 'attendance' of 15k. I could be wrong, but I don't think so.

Evenso the economy here sucks, hardcore, but people still find ways to support the Wings. No excuses for Nashville not to draw 15-16K per game.

BTW, Nashville drawing 14k per game is like Detroit only getting 16k. That's nuts.

Edited June 24, 2007 by BringHomeTheCup!

[RedFX 48]

The Joe seats about 20K. I was at the Phoenix game when Detroit put up 9. Half way through the second, people started leaving, by the middle of the third, there were still more than 10k there.

As for how many people go to the games, I couldn't tell you. But I can tell you that the tickets sell. I don't think Detroit had 'attendance' of 15k. I could be wrong, but I don't think so.

Evenso the economy here sucks, hardcore, but people still find ways to support the Wings. No excuses for Nashville not to draw 15-16K per game.

BTW, Nashville drawing 14k per game is like Detroit only getting 16k. That's nuts.

Probably the only reason we sell out anymore is the corporate seats, something the Preds don't have. Take away corporates and you have maybe 17-18,000 people a night going to the Joe. The point I was trying to make is I rarely see that lower bowl packed the way it used to be. Either that or I see it filling up at the end of the first, and it emptying out at the end of the second. A die hard fan in any city will see that Phoenix game, but those average fans aren't gonna want to spend money to see a no-name team.

[BringHomeTheCup! 0]

Probably the only reason we sell out anymore is the corporate seats, something the Preds don't have. Take away corporates and you have maybe 17-18,000 people a night going to the Joe. The point I was trying to make is I rarely see that lower bowl packed the way it used to be. Either that or I see it filling up at the end of the first, and it emptying out at the end of the second. A die hard fan in any city will see that Phoenix game, but those average fans aren't gonna want to spend money to see a no-name team.

Are you talking the suites? Because if I am correct, those don't actually count towards the attendance, the Joe will seat about 20K.

I would say average attendace is about 17K+, easily.

[Legionnaire11 0]

I feel for you, I really do. But I'm more concerned with the NHL growing, and getting better T.V. deals. There aren't enough people who honestly give two s***s about the Preds. IMO, move them.

moving out of Nashville to Hamilton does nothing to grow the game and even less to get a better TV deal.

Edited June 24, 2007 by Legionnaire11

[BringHomeTheCup! 0]

moving out of Nashville to Hamilton does nothing to grow the game and even less to get a better TV deal.

I don't really care about growing the game as much as I do the NHL as a whole. If Canada gets another team, attendance, mech sales, everything goes up. As for a TV deal here in the US, we are going ot get bent over on that for years to come.

[Legionnaire11 0]

btw, Nashville drew 15,200 last season. but only 13,800 paid for their tickets every night. So there's 1,400 more that are interested and go, they just got free tickets. I believe we also sold out 19 games, that's right at half of them.

there is an article in the paper, yesterday or today that says the ticket push is going very well. they hit 1,000 NEW season tickets this week. And their target is 3,000 by the end of this off-season. Which would put our base at 11,000 and hitting the 14k mark next season would be no option. we were only 200 shy last season with 8,000 season tickets.

[toby91_ca 620]

I wish he'd just get an expansion team in hamilton instead of trying to rip a team from everyone else.

If it were that easy, that's what he would do (hell of a lot easier than overpaying for another team and moving them). Fact is, this is the only way Basillie will get a team in Canada, the NHL will not grant an expansion team to Hamilton, they have already been passed over.

[FireCaptain 563]

For those of you trying to compare Detroit ticket sales and Nashville ticket sales, you are comparing apples and oranges.

Detroit - been in league since 1926.

Nash - been in league since waaay back in 1997.

Detroit population - 954,000 http://detroit.areaconnect.com/statistics.htm

Nash population - 545,000 http://nashville.areaconnect.com/statistics.htm

13800 seats sold out of 17000 available is 81%. Not a bad number for a non-traditional market during a long and tedious regular season. And their playoff games were all sellouts.

Detroit managed to "sellout" the Joe during the regular season, but where were the people?? Empty seats everywhere.

The Joe averaged about 3K short of a sellout for each and every playoff game. 17000/20066 is 84%. You beat the poor Preds to death about the tickets and yet the Wings didn't fare much better.

Economy? Sure, Michigan's not faring so well, but they're still better than Nashvegas.

Average hourly wage:

Detroit -$24.85 http://www.city-data.com/us-cities/The-Mid...it-Economy.html

Nashville - $18.65 http://www.nashvilleareainfo.com/Default.a...ge=DavidsonInfo

Unemployment figures do favor Tennessee tho:

Detroit - 8.2%

Nashville - 3.9%

75% more people and 50% more unemployed. 77,500 vs. 21,555 (roughly).

I am a diehard Wings fan, but being from Tennessee, I have a bit of a soft spot for the Preds and I get sooooooooooooo sick and tired of the bashing and the ignorant "rednecks don't deserve hockey" banter.

Facts from above - Detroit has 75% more people and higher average hourly wage than Nashville.

STILL FAULTING THE PREDS FOR THEIR 'SUPPOSED' LACK OF SUPPORT????

I, for one, would be greatly saddened if the Preds move. The easiest way for me to see the Wings play is to make the 3 hour drive to Nashville. I usually do it about 2 or 3 times a year (depends on the work schedule) and I always have a great time.

Edited June 25, 2007 by FireCaptain

[RedFX 48]

btw, Nashville drew 15,200 last season. but only 13,800 paid for their tickets every night. So there's 1,400 more that are interested and go, they just got free tickets. I believe we also sold out 19 games, that's right at half of them.

there is an article in the paper, yesterday or today that says the ticket push is going very well. they hit 1,000 NEW season tickets this week. And their target is 3,000 by the end of this off-season. Which would put our base at 11,000 and hitting the 14k mark next season would be no option. we were only 200 shy last season with 8,000 season tickets.

67% of last year's season tickets have already been renewed, which is a little above average normally at this time of year. Usually season ticket sales and renewals really start heating up towards the end of August/early September, when it gets closer. Incidentally, the OUR TEAM campaign is hosting a city-wide rally and ticket drive on July 19th. The Sommet Center and the surrounding Music Row area will be holding the all-day ticket drive in an attempt to local interest and ticket sales. This is not what Balsillie wanted to see.

lol, I can just hear Leipold, "Oh, sure. NOW you come out and support the team!"

Are you talking the suites? Because if I am correct, those don't actually count towards the attendance, the Joe will seat about 20K.

I would say average attendace is about 17K+, easily.

I wasn't talking about the suites as much as those lower bowl/on-the-glass seats. But you are right, the suites do not count towards either attendance nor capacity.

[wingsfan40 0]

So back and forth....I wonder what will happen

[Legionnaire11 0]

67% of last year's season tickets have already been renewed, which is a little above average normally at this time of year. Usually season ticket sales and renewals really start heating up towards the end of August/early September, when it gets closer. Incidentally, the OUR TEAM campaign is hosting a city-wide rally and ticket drive on July 19th. The Sommet Center and the surrounding Music Row area will be holding the all-day ticket drive in an attempt to local interest and ticket sales. This is not what Balsillie wanted to see.

and you won't see any articles coming out of Canada that says any of that

unfortunately, they seem to be pumping out anti-nashville articles every day that are full of innacuracies and are picked up by national outlets, then you get all these idiots who don't know any better running around proclaiming that Nashville is the worst market ever. I still see people who say that the preds only average 12,000 last season because it was in some report back when the sale was first announced.

[RedFX 48]

and you won't see any articles coming out of Canada that says any of that

unfortunately, they seem to be pumping out anti-nashville articles every day that are full of innacuracies and are picked up by national outlets, then you get all these idiots who don't know any better running around proclaiming that Nashville is the worst market ever. I still see people who say that the preds only average 12,000 last season because it was in some report back when the sale was first announced.

Funny, you said that so I checked the Spectator in Hamilton and found this.

http://www.thespec.com/Sports/article/211561

I'm not even sure how to start correcting that piece of work.

Scratch that, actually I can.

So, the owners agree not to talk out of class; Leipold pleads legal costs and sends a letter that says the sale could still go forward if Balsillie agrees to a binding deal (fat chance without relocation-possibility assurances); the Thrashers continue a sell-off that will likely leave them at the minimum salary for 2007-08, further diminishing fan interest; Balsillie's lawyer Richard Rodier states that the letter won't affect the deal; and Bettman, having rattled his sword, sheathes it for a while.

Another reason hockey will fail in Hamilton. The economy is so bad, they can't even afford fact-checkers.

Edited June 25, 2007 by RedFX

[BringHomeTheCup! 0]

67% of last year's season tickets have already been renewed, which is a little above average normally at this time of year. Usually season ticket sales and renewals really start heating up towards the end of August/early September, when it gets closer. Incidentally, the OUR TEAM campaign is hosting a city-wide rally and ticket drive on July 19th. The Sommet Center and the surrounding Music Row area will be holding the all-day ticket drive in an attempt to local interest and ticket sales. This is not what Balsillie wanted to see.

lol, I can just hear Leipold, "Oh, sure. NOW you come out and support the team!"

This isn't any real surprise to me, or anyone in the Preds organization. Every time there is talk of a professional sports team moving, you see a sudden swell of support from the fans. I personally thinks it's just a bunch of BS because it's not going to work, in most cases.

I don't think it matters to Balli, he if he gets the Preds, he will move them. The only thing that concerns him is whether or not he will have to compensate the city of Nashville or not.

Not knocking any of the real Preds fans, but I don't think that Nashville should have a team. It's not because I have some idea that hockey should only be played in cities where it will flourish. Rather, the experiment was tried, and it failed. Yes, there are some die hard fans there. But I bet most of those fans aren't have been transplanted to Nashville. I'm not saying it's impossible for someone in Nashville to become a fan, just that for the most part it isn't happening.

I would love to see the team moved to Hamilton. It's another Canadian team. I've said this before, but it would help out the entire league by moving a team there. Canadian teams have higher merch sales, ticket sales, and fan bases than your average American team. The only trouble they have really had in the past was the weakness of the Canadian dollar. But it's surging back, almost equal with the American dollar now. If you subtract a weak market American team, and add in an average market Canadian team, you gain so much more. I think in the long run, this would be a great move for the NHL.

Yes, I am sorry that all of you real hockey fans down in Nashville will get your team ripped away from you. I really am. But I would much rather see the NHL get stronger as a whole, than see another team in the States keep sinking. Someone earlier mentioned that this move wouldn't help a TV deal in the U.S. Personally, I don't care, I am already getting screwed over by VS anyhow, it can't get any worse. Bettman has to bite the bullet here, and take whatever ESPN is willing to give. That is where the market is at. How many of us here LOVED Bucci, Chicken Parm, and Melrose on NHL2NITE?

Getting the team out of Nashville is best for the NHL. Long term, the Preds will fail to draw any real crowds.

[Guest jaytan]

It's like Bettman is a farmer. His crop of choice is potatoes. We all know about Idaho and potatoes. But instead of buying some land out in Idaho, Bettman thinks to himself, "If I can only get these things to grow where they don't grow, and people don't like them. Maybe then the people will like them, and I'll sell a lot of potatoes." So he chooses to move out to Siberia. Only the potatoes don't grow. The climate isn't correct. But instead of cutting his losses, and moving somewhere that he could grow potatoes, say North Dakota, he chooses to keep his potato farm in Siberia. Saying that it's only a matter of time before they start to grow.

I love the analogy.... But I thought potatoes grew in Siberia. How else do they get all that vodka? Seriously, though, don't they?

...Whenever a division rival or a big name team like Colorado or Dallas comes to town, they usually bring in alot of fans. However, when a team like Los Angeles or Phoenix comes in, they bring in anywhere from 10,000 to 12,000. The stands are either jammed packed or empty, and because the arena is smaller than most, the sellouts can't really counter out those 10,000 fan games.

Well, how do the Predators do on the road, as far as attendance goes? Even when they're good, I don't think they spark too much interest.

Edited June 25, 2007 by jaytan

[BringHomeTheCup! 0]

I love the analogy.... But I thought potatoes grew in Siberia. How else do they get all that vodka? Seriously, though, don't they?

Hah, yeah you are right. Let's go with apples.

[BringHomeTheCup! 0]

For those of you trying to compare Detroit ticket sales and Nashville ticket sales, you are comparing apples and oranges.

Detroit - been in league since 1926.

Nash - been in league since waaay back in 1997.

Detroit population - 954,000 http://detroit.areaconnect.com/statistics.htm

Nash population - 545,000 http://nashville.areaconnect.com/statistics.htm

13800 seats sold out of 17000 available is 81%. Not a bad number for a non-traditional market during a long and tedious regular season. And their playoff games were all sellouts.

Detroit managed to "sellout" the Joe during the regular season, but where were the people?? Empty seats everywhere.

The Joe averaged about 3K short of a sellout for each and every playoff game. 17000/20066 is 84%. You beat the poor Preds to death about the tickets and yet the Wings didn't fare much better.

Economy? Sure, Michigan's not faring so well, but they're still better than Nashvegas.

Average hourly wage:

Detroit -$24.85 http://www.city-data.com/us-cities/The-Mid...it-Economy.html

Nashville - $18.65 http://www.nashvilleareainfo.com/Default.a...ge=DavidsonInfo

Unemployment figures do favor Tennessee tho:

Detroit - 8.2%

Nashville - 3.9%

75% more people and 50% more unemployed. 77,500 vs. 21,555 (roughly).

I am a diehard Wings fan, but being from Tennessee, I have a bit of a soft spot for the Preds and I get sooooooooooooo sick and tired of the bashing and the ignorant "rednecks don't deserve hockey" banter.

Facts from above - Detroit has 75% more people and higher average hourly wage than Nashville.

STILL FAULTING THE PREDS FOR THEIR 'SUPPOSED' LACK OF SUPPORT????

I, for one, would be greatly saddened if the Preds move. The easiest way for me to see the Wings play is to make the 3 hour drive to Nashville. I usually do it about 2 or 3 times a year (depends on the work schedule) and I always have a great time.

First, the length of time the teams has been around is irrelevant. What is relevant is the intrest in the sport in each area. And yes, there is much higher intrest in hockey here, than in Tennessee.

Second, to look at the percentages on ticket sales, it's a bit misleading. The tickets that typically don't sell during the regular season at the Joe are the upper deck seats. The fact of the matter is the Wings average attendance is higher than the Preds could ever be. I know it's because the Preds can only draw 17000. However, 17000 people at the Joe and it feels empty.

Third, the unemployment rate, and average salary. Since Detroit has roughly twice the population of Nashville, you can just about garuntee that there will be more unemplyed here than Nashville. What's misleading is the number of people who do have jobs, and the average salary. No way is the actual average anywhere near the $24.85 you stated. I know you got that from a site and all, but it just isn't true. I would not argue that far more people are working here. However, I would venture to say that the true average salary is going to be around $14-$18 per hour. The reasoning is that the seperation between the wealth and the average person here. At $24.85 per hour, that person woould be bringing in $50k a year, pretty decent. But I've read on a few different site that in Michigan the average combined household income is $60,000. I would assume that to some extent, the same could be said about Nashville.

Lastly, don't forget that Detroit has 3 other professional teams that are supported with great passion.