Management practically admits offseason mistakes?

[blgillett 48]

No I don't think this means they made mistakes. I think the market was way to high this year and the wings arn't going to spend money just for the sake of spending money.

Edited July 14, 2007 by blgillett

[Guest Crymson]

If I actually liked Selanne, I would so be pulling for the Wings to sign him. Man, that would piss the Ducks off!

Maybe we should have spent more for the short-term. By the time Zetterberg's a UFA, Lidstrom will probably be retiring, and it isn't likely we'll have a Stanley Cup-calibre goalie in net. I see a two-year window for a Cup before there's a little drop down.

With the contract lengths being asked for this postseason, it was effectively impossible to lock up any top-six forward (after Rafalski) without jeopardizing our ability to sign Z in two years.

[Guest jaytan]

I know. I was saying maybe we should think about sacrificing Zetterberg (in two years) for a chance to win a Cup while it's still possible for us to win one. Who cares if we have Zetterberg in two years (for 7 million-plus) if we don't have all the other pieces then?

I would rather have kept him than Datsyuk, but if it comes down to it, we shouldn't freak out if one of the two doesn't stay a Red Wing for the majority of his career.

[IceMunkee 15]

I know. I was saying maybe we should think about sacrificing Zetterberg (in two years) for a chance to win a Cup while it's still possible for us to win one. Who cares if we have Zetterberg in two years (for 7 million-plus) if we don't have all the other pieces then?

I would rather have kept him than Datsyuk, but if it comes down to it, we shouldn't freak out if one of the two doesn't stay a Red Wing for the majority of his career.

I don't have anything to say to that. Someone explain this logic to me please???

[stillwater 186]

I don't have anything to say to that. Someone explain this logic to me please???

It's the same logic that says the Penguins should have signed Briere, Gomez, Drury and Bertuzzi and just let Crosby walk when he becomes a free agent because MAYBE they can win a cup.

[RedWingedKitten 9]

(I did not read the second page, so feel free to flame me)

We need to leave the cap space so we can give Z a lot of money to roll around in.

[Guest jaytan]

It's the same logic that says the Penguins should have signed Briere, Gomez, Drury and Bertuzzi and just let Crosby walk when he becomes a free agent because MAYBE they can win a cup.

Actually, you're close. The only difference is that the Wings have the experience and talent to win the Cup, but it all depends on proven veterans who will probably be gone when Zetterberg's contract runs out (Lidstrom, Chelios, and like it or not, Hasek). The Pens don't have enough to make the risk worth it.

I really don't think there will be perennial championship contenders in the salary cap era, so we need to get our Cup while we still can, not sacrifice a Cup just to make sure we keep one player (who may be somewhat special, but I doubt he'll be worth what he likely receives as a free agent).

[Mickeyisms Rule! 0]

Actually, you're close. The only difference is that the Wings have the experience and talent to win the Cup, but it all depends on proven veterans who will probably be gone when Zetterberg's contract runs out (Lidstrom, Chelios, and like it or not, Hasek). The Pens don't have enough to make the risk worth it.

I really don't think there will be perennial championship contenders in the salary cap era, so we need to get our Cup while we still can, not sacrifice a Cup just to make sure we keep one player (who may be somewhat special, but I doubt he'll be worth what he likely receives as a free agent).

Its called building a team- that's why you save the cap space to resign Z to a long term contract. In order to have a strong building, you have to have a strong foundation. Right now we are building around Z, Dats, Rafalski, and to a lesse extent- Kronwall. According to the powers-that-be, they are the future of the franchise.

The Hawks don't have a franchise-type player. We are lucky to have Z and Dats- 2 franchise guys. We also have Rafalski nailed down for a good term. Just because we will someday lose Lidstrom, Chelios, Hasek, Drapes, Malts, etc, doesn't mean that the future of this team stands no chance. The old guys are there supervising to make sure that the foundation and the franchise that gets built around them doesn't have any cracks in it.

Don't you worry, the future will be fine. Its not like all the Wings from the 97 team are still there, or even still were for the '02 cup run. The faces change, but the glory remains. Luckily we have Mr. I watching over things, and I don't think that he would hesitate to make a change of he saw things going in a direction that he didn't like.

[SweWings 45]

Its called building a team- that's why you save the cap space to resign Z to a long term contract. In order to have a strong building, you have to have a strong foundation. Right now we are building around Z, Dats, Rafalski, and to a lesse extent- Kronwall. According to the powers-that-be, they are the future of the franchise.

The Hawks don't have a franchise-type player. We are lucky to have Z and Dats- 2 franchise guys. We also have Rafalski nailed down for a good term. Just because we will someday lose Lidstrom, Chelios, Hasek, Drapes, Malts, etc, doesn't mean that the future of this team stands no chance. The old guys are there supervising to make sure that the foundation and the franchise that gets built around them doesn't have any cracks in it.

Don't you worry, the future will be fine. Its not like all the Wings from the 97 team are still there, or even still were for the '02 cup run. The faces change, but the glory remains. Luckily we have Mr. I watching over things, and I don't think that he would hesitate to make a change of he saw things going in a direction that he didn't like.

I love this post. Thank you.

[Donaldjr2448 43]

I love this post. Thank you.

SPOT ON!!!

[therock48880 14]

I can't stand Holland and have been ripping him for years. I think he gets WAY too much credit. When he took the team over, the core of the great teams was already in place.

Having said that, I don't blame him at all for not signing a top six forward. They were way overpaid and the teams that signed them will be stuck with the big salary cap numbers. I was furious when I found out that Bertuzzi went to Anaheim until I found out his salary. It would've been stupid for the Wings to invest so much into an injury prone forward. Especially when you consider that Lidstrom's contract is coming due.

[Zion 93]

/thread

[eva unit zero 271]

I can't stand Holland and have been ripping him for years. I think he gets WAY too much credit. When he took the team over, the core of the great teams was already in place.

Having said that, I don't blame him at all for not signing a top six forward. They were way overpaid and the teams that signed them will be stuck with the big salary cap numbers. I was furious when I found out that Bertuzzi went to Anaheim until I found out his salary. It would've been stupid for the Wings to invest so much into an injury prone forward. Especially when you consider that Lidstrom's contract is coming due.

Holland took over the same time we lost the best defenseman in the NHL. He inherited a good portion of a Cup winner, but not all of it. And as far as 2002 is concerned, the Wings had 13 players who were acquired by Holland. So it's not like the team was in place and just stayed together for years and won three Cups...Holland had to do work to keep them up there.

[therock48880 14]

Holland took over the same time we lost the best defenseman in the NHL. He inherited a good portion of a Cup winner, but not all of it. And as far as 2002 is concerned, the Wings had 13 players who were acquired by Holland. So it's not like the team was in place and just stayed together for years and won three Cups...Holland had to do work to keep them up there.

You and I could keep the team in the upper echelon with an 87 million dollar payroll. In 02 he had a few guys who wanted to come to detroit to win a cup. It wasn't that he did anything special. He had the core in place and went out and signed and traded for hall of famers who wanted to come here. That doesn't make someone a great GM in my opinion.

I wasn't trying to hijack this thread anyways. My point was, I can't stand Holland but I don't blame him for not doing much this off season. Prices are WAY too high for the guys the Wings are/were interested in. In other words, I'm defending Holland.

[eva unit zero 271]

You and I could keep the team in the upper echelon with an 87 million dollar payroll. In 02 he had a few guys who wanted to come to detroit to win a cup. It wasn't that he did anything special. He had the core in place and went out and signed and traded for hall of famers who wanted to come here. That doesn't make someone a great GM in my opinion.

Of the six regular defensemen in the 2002 Cup run, Lidstrom and Dandenault are the only ones who were on the team before Holland took over. Of Chelios, Fischer, Olausson, and Duchesne...which one was a Hall of Famer who wanted to come to Detroit?

As far as the 'core' Holland had Yzerman, Shanahan, Fedorov, Lidstrom as 'core' players who were on the roster when he took over that stuck around until 2002. If that core of four guys is so unstoppable that a terrible GM like Holland could win a Cup with them, why didn't the Wings win seven in a row from 1997 to 2003?

[bringback91 2]

You and I could keep the team in the upper echelon with an 87 million dollar payroll.

I seriously doubt it. Look at the Rangers, and they had a higher payroll. Spending the money means nothing, if it's not on the right players. And Hasek was a huge addition, whom was aquired through trade, not free agency.

[Guest GordieSid&Ted]

You and I could keep the team in the upper echelon with an 87 million dollar payroll. In 02 he had a few guys who wanted to come to detroit to win a cup. It wasn't that he did anything special. He had the core in place and went out and signed and traded for hall of famers who wanted to come here. That doesn't make someone a great GM in my opinion.

I wasn't trying to hijack this thread anyways. My point was, I can't stand Holland but I don't blame him for not doing much this off season. Prices are WAY too high for the guys the Wings are/were interested in. In other words, I'm defending Holland.

So who do you think is a good GM since you can't stand Holland? (I can't wait to hear this)

PS: NO GM on the planet would sign 40 million in player salaries if their owner gave them a blank check so stop ******* looking down on Holland for having the benefit of a large checkbook to sign players. It isn't his fault that Illitch was willing to spend the dough and it doesn't speak less of Holland for using that dough. ANY GM WOULD DO THE SAME UNDER THE SAME CIRCUMSTANCES. Get it through your skull already. We're in the cap era and Holland has proved he's as good as the come with using the cap, keeping our prospects and picks and saving money for deadline acquisitions. Oh yeah, and we made it to the Conference Finals already in the capped era.

Holland is the ******* bomb. His record speaks for itself. I don't care if he has 40 mil to work with or 140 mil to work with, the guy just gets it done. He ices a winner every year and you'd be hard pressed to find another organization in sports that wins as frequently, as consistently and produces winners with regularity as the Wings. That credit belongs to the entire organization, which includes Holland. This isn't a great organization in spite of Holland. He makes the final decisions and thank god for that.

[IceMunkee 15]

Of the six regular defensemen in the 2002 Cup run, Lidstrom and Dandenault are the only ones who were on the team before Holland took over. Of Chelios, Fischer, Olausson, and Duchesne...which one was a Hall of Famer who wanted to come to Detroit?

As far as the 'core' Holland had Yzerman, Shanahan, Fedorov, Lidstrom as 'core' players who were on the roster when he took over that stuck around until 2002. If that core of four guys is so unstoppable that a terrible GM like Holland could win a Cup with them, why didn't the Wings win seven in a row from 1997 to 2003?

[vangvace 12]

So who do you think is a good GM since you can't stand Holland? (I can't wait to hear this)

PS: NO GM on the planet would sign 40 million in player salaries if their owner gave them a blank check so stop ******* looking down on Holland for having the benefit of a large checkbook to sign players. It isn't his fault that Illitch was willing to spend the dough and it doesn't speak less of Holland for using that dough. ANY GM WOULD DO THE SAME UNDER THE SAME CIRCUMSTANCES. Get it through your skull already. We're in the cap era and Holland has proved he's as good as the come with using the cap, keeping our prospects and picks and saving money for deadline acquisitions. Oh yeah, and we made it to the Conference Finals already in the capped era.

Holland is the ******* bomb. His record speaks for itself. I don't care if he has 40 mil to work with or 140 mil to work with, the guy just gets it done. He ices a winner every year and you'd be hard pressed to find another organization in sports that wins as frequently, as consistently and produces winners with regularity as the Wings. That credit belongs to the entire organization, which includes Holland. This isn't a great organization in spite of Holland. He makes the final decisions and thank god for that.

A GM really is only as good as the scouting system for the organization and his team of negotiators. Holland really has had the benefit of one of the best scouting systems in the league, which he was apart of once, that has vastly improved since the Iiliches bought the team.

Howeveer, as far as his being the end all, be all in the salary cap era. Are you really going to crown him after just two cap seasons? Shouldn't Burke and Lamoriello then get the same crown then?

I really haven't liked all of the moves he's made so far, but I can't truely pass judgement on him for a few more seasons on to if he's truely a cap genius or not. Well... unless the cap continues to go up

oh and also not a Holland fan

[EastLansingNative 1]

Stay the course Kenny!

[Guest DetroitIan]

Stay the course Kenny!

[Guest GordieSid&Ted]

A GM really is only as good as the scouting system for the organization and his team of negotiators. Holland really has had the benefit of one of the best scouting systems in the league, which he was apart of once, that has vastly improved since the Iiliches bought the team.

Howeveer, as far as his being the end all, be all in the salary cap era. Are you really going to crown him after just two cap seasons? Shouldn't Burke and Lamoriello then get the same crown then?

I really haven't liked all of the moves he's made so far, but I can't truely pass judgement on him for a few more seasons on to if he's truely a cap genius or not. Well... unless the cap continues to go up

oh and also not a Holland fan

That's cool. It just pisses me off when people rag on him because of Illitch's checkbook or the fact that he has good people around him.

Does having a team full of studs and Steinbrenner as owner make Alex Rodgriguez less of a player?

Essentially, everytime somebody talks negatively about Holland they bring up the fact that he has strong people around him or that for years he had a blank check. That just baffles the s*** out of me. Doesn't Bill Gates surround himself with the best people possible? Does that make him less smart or less innovative or overrated at what he does?

It's the most ridiculous thing i've ever heard to criticize a winner because he is surrounded by support. What is a GM supposed to do to be considered great? Take a full team of AHLers with a league minimum payroll and win 5 Cups in a row? ******* absurd.

[vangvace 12]

Essentially, everytime somebody talks negatively about Holland they bring up the fact that he has strong people around him or that for years he had a blank check. That just baffles the s*** out of me. Doesn't Bill Gates surround himself with the best people possible? Does that make him less smart or less innovative or overrated at what he does?

It's the most ridiculous thing i've ever heard to criticize a winner because he is surrounded by support. What is a GM supposed to do to be considered great? Take a full team of AHLers with a league minimum payroll and win 5 Cups in a row? ******* absurd.

nope that'll be a great coach. Very Disneylike at that.

his supporting cast is a knock in the sense that it makes his job easier, but it's also praise for the org overall.

It's still too new to be able to say which GMs are doing well yet. We haven't even really seen major cap issues yet which is a great test of a GMs worth.

...but I still don't like him

Edited July 17, 2007 by vangvace

[Tommie2 0]

mlive.com:

Devellano said there's no validity to a report in Russia's Sport Express newspaper claiming the Wings are interested in free-agent center Alexei Yashin. He's a talented player, but his effort and desire have been questioned throughout his career.

"We have no interest in him -- I mean zero,'' Devellano said. "We would like a top-six winger, but there's nobody out there. We're going to hold the money. Who knows what might happen during the season. We're not going to sign guys we don't like. We'd like to have (defenseman) Danny Markov, but can't afford him. We're not going to panic.''

The Wings have between $4 million and $6 million in salary cap space, depending on whether they apply goaltender Dominik Hasek's performance bonuses (up to $2 million) to this season's salary cap or the following season's.

-- making statements like "we're not going to panic" and "we'd like a top 6 player but there's nobody out there" after all that was available this offseason makes me feel like this is a nice way to say "whoops!'

anyone else agree?

I somewhat agree but wish they would get a interest in micheal peca !

mlive.com:

Devellano said there's no validity to a report in Russia's Sport Express newspaper claiming the Wings are interested in free-agent center Alexei Yashin. He's a talented player, but his effort and desire have been questioned throughout his career.

"We have no interest in him -- I mean zero,'' Devellano said. "We would like a top-six winger, but there's nobody out there. We're going to hold the money. Who knows what might happen during the season. We're not going to sign guys we don't like. We'd like to have (defenseman) Danny Markov, but can't afford him. We're not going to panic.''

The Wings have between $4 million and $6 million in salary cap space, depending on whether they apply goaltender Dominik Hasek's performance bonuses (up to $2 million) to this season's salary cap or the following season's.

-- making statements like "we're not going to panic" and "we'd like a top 6 player but there's nobody out there" after all that was available this offseason makes me feel like this is a nice way to say "whoops!'

anyone else agree?

I somewhat agree but wish they would get a interest in micheal peca !

[westcoastfan 0]

You never know maybe Grigs or another rookie will have a breakout year on the team and become that top winger