Balsillie group accuses Bettman of forcing Preds to break off talks

[sWINGED 0]

"On one side is Bettman, whose vision of the NHL continues to be one that includes teams scattered across America, even if many of those American markets are floundering. The failure of the Predators reflects badly on Bettman's vision. Their failure is his failure."

that's why bettman is such a d!ck and an idiot and the biggest killer of the nhl as we know it. he's been strip mining the league since day 1 of his arrival.

what a douchebag. i hate that *******.

Edited July 22, 2007 by sWINGED

[betterREDthandead 58]

So please explain to me how exactly Balsillie has screwed-up?

It was already explained. Twice now, Balsillie has tried to buy a team and set them up in Hamilton before he even had a deal. Somebody said it earlier: The owners are essentially a private club. Piss off the owners (and their voice of policy, Bettman) and you will not get into the club.

Balsillie is a spoiled *******. I'm thinking he must also be a liar, because the Penguins were only to be sold to someone who would keep the team in Pittsburgh, and he would have had to pay lip service to that idea despite obviously wanting to move them to Hamilton. Then he took it one step further with the Predators by actually acting if the team was already in Canada.

The explanation to this is far more complex than "hurrrrrrr buttmanz a doosh *** him!" Bettman is not a unilateral dictator, he's the voice of policy for the 30 owners of the league. And if 29 other owners step up and say, "Look, we don't want Balsillie to own an NHL team," then Bettman will say just that. You can bet, for example, there's heavy pressure from the owners of the Leafs, and some pressure from the Sabres, Wings, and Senators too, NOT to allow a team in Hamilton.

[haroldsnepsts 4,826]

Balsillie had been unanimously approved by the NHL's board of governors last winter as the new owner of the Pittsburgh Penguins. But when the league tried to enforce a number of last-minute stipulations on Balsillie's ownership, including restricting his ability to move the team and allowing for the league essentially to take control of the Penguins under certain circumstances, Balsillie walked away.

If definitely sounds like Balsillie didn't want to play nice with the old boys club. It seems like he lacks some diplomacy skills, but then again, so does Bettman. It makes for a bad combination.

Having an arena and proving that the market can support an NHL franchise are both requirements spelled out in the NHL's bylaws as requirements for applying to relocate an NHL franchise.

Balsillie is right in trying to show that Hamilton would be a viable market to support an NHL franchise, since it's looking like Nashville isn't. He clearly isn't showing a lot of finesse in how he's handled the situation, but if anyone, it's the owners and Bettman who are in the position of spoiled *ssholes. Balsillie is the new kid on the block.

How dare he have the nerve of paying a more than generous sum for the franchise and wanting to relocate it to a market where he thinks it will be successful. Especially considering Liepold himself says he's selling because he's tired of losing money.

Edited July 22, 2007 by haroldsnepsts

[vangvace 12]

I'm guessing Toronto is the majority of that revenue. But it goes against the perception that most of the canadian teams are basically charity cases because it's that country's sport.

Interesting enough the Oil put money into the revenue sharing pot last season...

but back on topic, Balsillie had lawyers looking into fighting the BoG ruling on the sale and move.

He also assumed that because he has money that he didn't have to follow NHL bylaws on team sales/moves.

Too be quite honest I think he's going to sue the league before long because he hasn't put a team in his back yard yet.

[eva unit zero 271]

Balsillie is, at this point, simply whining and crying to get his way.

One thing people should remember: Balsillie tried to purchase and move the Pens when they had been sitting at the bottom of the attendance list. Bettman and the BOG refused to allow them to be purchased with the intent to be moved. Why should Balsillie be allowed to move Nashville but not Pittsburgh? And why should his blatant disregard for NHL rules and regulations be ignored?

[SouthernWingsFan 854]

Balsillie is, at this point, simply whining and crying to get his way.

One thing people should remember: Balsillie tried to purchase and move the Pens when they had been sitting at the bottom of the attendance list. Bettman and the BOG refused to allow them to be purchased with the intent to be moved. Why should Balsillie be allowed to move Nashville but not Pittsburgh? And why should his blatant disregard for NHL rules and regulations be ignored?

Because it's so much easier and so much fun for many to just blame Gary Bettman for s**ts and giggles on here, like it is to have a few LGW whipping boys that seemed to be blamed for things for no apparent reason.

Edited July 22, 2007 by SouthernWingsFan

[vangvace 12]

Just how exactly is Balsillie blatantly disregarding the rules/regulations? Bettman has no power to veto a sale - however he may pressure an owner not to sell which is the case here. Leipold - not the BOG decided to not to continue with the sale due to Bettman's "cease & desist" order via email...Well I'll be the 1st to admit that Balsillie is brash in his ways, but he didn't become a billionaire by being a "nice guy", & once again he'd make an excellent owner in the NHL.

Globe & Mail article on this whole debacle.

As discussed in other threads here...

1) He wanted the BOG to vote on the sale/move of the Preds at the same meeting. And before he moved past the letter of intent to purchase the Preds.

2) He put lawyers to work towards that purpose so he could sue his way into what he wants.

3) He dropped the offer for the Penguins only after he was told that that team could not be moved.

[haroldsnepsts 4,826]

Yes Balsillie has been brash in his handling of this deal, but I find it funny that the guy who makes the highest offer by far at $240 million and has tried to show how the franchise could succeed in a new market is somehow seen as an enemy of the NHL. When it was Liepold who put the brakes on the deal and said he intends to consider other offers like that from Del Baggio, which was for $50 million less. And Del Baggio owns the rights to put an NHL team in Kansas City.

So is the issue really that Balsillie stepped on too many toes while trying to get a franchise, or is it that he wants to relocate it to Canada close to the almighty Leafs?

Edited July 22, 2007 by haroldsnepsts

[Kp-Wings 3]

nm

Edited July 22, 2007 by Kp-Wings

[2probert4 8]

look a few things here would ya?

...maybe, just maybe it's because Balls and Boots both saw that the fans are stepping up and will 'cure' the lease, thus barring them from moving the team within the next 4 years, and they decided they don't want to wait and/or deal with the legal mess it would bring from the city?

Boots doesn't want to stay in Nashville....He made that clear long ago, he wants to put a team in Kansas City. (I think it will be a bad idea to place a team there, but who am I ?) The local Nashville group has said they will have to average 16 - 17K in order to make money, and their offer is less than Balsillie's and Boots. Whats the season ticket count now after Plasters telethon ? They sold almost 800, but that would place them around the 8000 mark , give or take. The Titans PSL (Personal Seat License) fees don't help the cause , they are high dollar fees on top of the ticket prices. Even IF they make the 14000 goal, what happens in a few years if the new owner(s) are losing money, does this "jumping the ship" so to speak happen again???

[eva unit zero 271]

One fact that is overlooked by the 'Move Nashville' crowd:

BALSILLIE is the reason no binding agreement was reached. He wanted the league to vote on the sale and relocation BEFORE he entered into a binding agreement. in other words, he wanted a 'yes' vote that he could buy the team and move them to Hamilton BEFORE he paid a cent. The league's policy is that a binding agreement must be reached before a vote is made on either subject.

Sorry, but Leipold deciding he won't ever receive money from Balsillie has NOTHING to do with Bettman.

[haroldsnepsts 4,826]

People are also overlooking that it was Leipold who triggered the out clause on the lease by announcing the team would relocate unless it averaged 14,000 fans.

Leipold is the one who put the brakes on, telling the league not to do any more due diligence with Balsillie until they have a binding agreement.

Leipold is the one started entertaining other lower offers like the one from Del Baggio.

Here's a good timeline of the deal.

And can you really blame Balsillie for wanting to know he has permission to move the team to a new market BEFORE he's contractually obligated, rather than being handcuffed to keeping them in a market that to date has done nothing but bled money?

Edited July 23, 2007 by haroldsnepsts

[sWINGED 0]

look: hockey in places like nashville and columbus (jesus) was always--ALWAYS--a HORRIBLE idea. it was a bad, stupid idea and bettman ran with it and forced it and forced and forced it--and he's still forcing it!

i'm not trying to offend passionate fans of those two cities (or others like them); rather i'm saying that bettman's vision was flawed since it's inception: that the nhl could be forcefully taken away from canada and forcefully dumped on american locales that had never shown an ounce of interest in nhl hockey.

[stevie for president 42]

this is what struck me as funny the most.

leipold lost 70 million in 10 years. in the last 2 years (post lockout) he lost 27 of that 70 million. that would mean in the 8 years prior to the lockout, nashville lost 43 million. i think no one will argue with me when i say that watching nashville for at least 7 of those first 8 years was brutal when compared to the most recent two years. so the hell with revenue sharing and a salary cap in an NHL where "record attendance" is being totaled does nashville do that poorly?

Just doing some quick math.

since the lockout the preds averaged losing 13.5 million a year

before the lockout the preds averaged losing 5.375 million a year

the total average loss per year is 7 million.

[Hank 0]

What I find amusing about this whole thing is that in many places it's turned to Nashville vs Canada, when that's not the case at all.

The fact is, the city of Nashville doesn't like hockey and it's corporations have done nothing to support it. You can't blame poor ticket sales or corporate support on the fact that they are bad team, have a bad building or don't have an owner or management core that isn't dedicated to winning.

The last 2 seasons the Preds have been one of the best and most exciting clubs to watch in the NHL and yet you couldn't give tickets away.

Whether this team goes to Hamilton, or Blind River or Vegas, it's beyond the point. The fact is, Nashville is a poor hockey market and shouldn't have been placed there in the first place. I'm sure the 2 Preds fans that visit here will be angered by this statement and try to disprove it but there's no stats or proof that would suggest otherwise.

The reason why Liopold triggered the out clause was so that it made the sale more attractive. Who's going to buy a team knowing full well you'll lose money. And whether you want to point out that the deal includes other businesses that have been profitable, the fact remains that if Liopold was still making money, he wouldn't be selling the team. It's a sinking ship and whomever buys it will want to have that out-clause so they can move it to a city that has corporate sponsers that will support it.

I've never had anything against Nashville or the pittance of fans that support the Preds, but I'm tired of NHL teams going to cities that have no interest in the league or sport. If Seattle, Portland, KC, Vegas, etc can support a team and fill a building, I'm all for an NHL team going there. But lets stop putting clubs into spots that don't want them there.

[Guest GordieSid&Ted]

How did Balsillie screw things up?

you really have to ask?

Legion, I respect your opinion but you're not exactly in a neutral position here.

IMHO, there's probably alot of validity to the claims. Perhaps Basille didn't do everything right, but that's all speculation isn't it? It's all heresay isn't it? It's all he said, she said, isn't it?

And yes, this is just more accusations with no proof.

For whatever reason though, this smells funny to me because of Bettman. What does moving Nashville do? It signifies that the league and Gary made a mistake. Moving a team is the admittance of failure. IMO, they felt they had a good shot at the local group getting the deal done and keeping the team in Nashville. If I were Bettman and I were a ******* weasel I'd keep that team from moving as well if it were at all possible.

It wouldn't surprise me in the least if Basille got stonewalled by the BOG or Gary or whoever because they were trying to save some face and keep this team from moving at all costs.

[Guest jaytan]

look: hockey in places like nashville and columbus (jesus) was always--ALWAYS--a HORRIBLE idea....

Why did you lump Columbus in with Nashville?

It's the biggest city in Ohio. It's in the same region as Detroit and Chicago. People play hockey there (though, obviously, not anywhere near as many as in other Northern cities). It's the site of a very large university (which attracts people from other areas, many from Michigan even) and a state capitol.... Hell, the Buckeyes even have a hockey team.

I had no problem with an expansion into Columbus. If anything, it was worth a shot. Nashville, on the other hand, was a little bit of a stretch.

[StevieY9802 6]

Why did you lump Columbus in with Nashville?

It's the biggest city in Ohio. It's in the same region as Detroit and Chicago. People play hockey there (though, obviously, not anywhere near as many as in other Northern cities). It's the site of a very large university (which attracts people from other areas, many from Michigan even) and a state capitol.... Hell, the Buckeyes even have a hockey team.

I had no problem with an expansion into Columbus. If anything, it was worth a shot. Nashville, on the other hand, was a little bit of a stretch.

Yeah I agree. Columbus was worth a shot. and I don't think you can pass judgement on them yet since they haven't been good, and thats not the citys fault. Theres college hockey in Ohio with Miami, BG and OSU. So I still want to see the team get better to see how the market is.

Nashville and Atlanta I questioned when they did it. Just cause the areas are growing doesn't mean hockey will survive there. Hockey is a tough sports to sell in this country lets face it. People look at it in the same light as soccer because of the low scoring. I don't think they are even close in excitment level but thats me. I guess I'm not the average american.

Edited July 23, 2007 by StevieY9802

[Opie 308]

My two favorite sports to watch on tv, Hockey and Soccer. I yell and swear at the TV more in a close 1-0 soccer or hockey game more than I do at any Red Sox playoff game. I only say that because I am a sox fan, if it is not a sox game I wont watch it. Even this weekend I was watching the sox and Man vs. Wild because the sport doesn't hold my attention like soccer and hockey. Even NFL I switch between games, or check out something else on TV.

Hockey if it is on I watch, regardless of team, same with soccer, which I have to watch in Spanish most of the time, so mute the TV and turn on the tunes.

But for some reason neither sport can take of in the US. Hopefully Beckham and Crosby (or Ovechkin) can change that and get more Americans to focus on what is going on and all of the little things that make those sports so awesome to watch. Where as football and baseball you do not have to follow the little things, just wait for the touchdown or homerun. The games are simple to understand, and take no effort to learn. Hockey and Soccer are both very much like a ballet, a lot of things have to happen for the show stopping event to take place.

NFL & MLB are spoon fed, all you have to do is watch.

Now some people are as die hard as it comes and know every little thing that goes on in a game, like those of us who are die hard hockey fans, however for the most part, those sports are really a lot easier (effort wise) to follow.

[Hank 0]

Why did you lump Columbus in with Nashville?

It's the biggest city in Ohio. It's in the same region as Detroit and Chicago. People play hockey there (though, obviously, not anywhere near as many as in other Northern cities). It's the site of a very large university (which attracts people from other areas, many from Michigan even) and a state capitol.... Hell, the Buckeyes even have a hockey team.

I had no problem with an expansion into Columbus. If anything, it was worth a shot. Nashville, on the other hand, was a little bit of a stretch.

Exactly. And lets not forget that even being an expansion team I believe the BlueJackets had consecutive sellouts that spanned over or near 2 seasons. Even now, they get a pretty good turnout.

I went to see a Wings-Bluejackets game in Columbus 4 years ago and the place was jumping! The fans were nuts and it was a sellout.

Nashville has never been able to say the same thing. Sure, they have had games sellout but I don't think they've had anything over 10 consecutive games that were.

Nashville, Atlanta, Phoenix and Washington all should be folded or moved. All of them get very poor fan support and nobody in those cities seem to give a crap about their NHL team.

Phoenix was a decent hockey town but they've had such abysmal seasons that people are staying away. I guess I can't blame them. But in Nashville's case (I hate to keep beating a dead horse) but they've been one of the best teams in the past 2 seasons and yet, still, nobody wants to watch them.

[StevieY9802 6]

But in Nashville's case (I hate to keep beating a dead horse) but they've been one of the best teams in the past 2 seasons and yet, still, nobody wants to watch them.

Thats my case all the time. And it's nice that people have turned out to try and keep them in Nashville but how come they didn't show up the last 2 years when this team has been fighting the Wings for the central and lead the central for quite a while during this past season? It just seems that they are showing up with the threat of losing their team. What happens after this next season if the team ends up staying? Will their passion to attend remain or go back to what it was the last two years?

[Hank 0]

Thats my case all the time. And it's nice that people have turned out to try and keep them in Nashville but how come they didn't show up the last 2 years when this team has been fighting the Wings for the central and lead the central for quite a while during this past season? It just seems that they are showing up with the threat of losing their team. What happens after this next season if the team ends up staying? Will their passion to attend remain or go back to what it was the last two years?

I hope it remains strong. I know they have some very diehard fans there and I'd hate to lose a team if I was really into them.

The rivalry has been great up to this point so it'd be nice to keep them around and in the same division.

[Opie 308]

I feel for the fans, like the guys who have come on here. They are no less loyal or die hard than us. But there are far less of them, and there appears to be far less interest in their team by the area they are in.

But it is hard to argue for moving a team that when in first place in their division and the league for a time can not build substantial support.

I know what it did to the Hartford whalers fans around New England when they left. One of my friends still has his "whale" license plate and it is from the whalers. He refuses to give up on the Whale!!!!

[Hank 0]

I feel for the fans, like the guys who have come on here. They are no less loyal or die hard than us. But there are far less of them, and there appears to be far less interest in their team by the area they are in.

But it is hard to argue for moving a team that when in first place in their division and the league for a time can not build substantial support.

I know what it did to the Hartford whalers fans around New England when they left. One of my friends still has his "whale" license plate and it is from the whalers. He refuses to give up on the Whale!!!!

Hahaha! Speaking of the whale, I was watching Classic Series' on the NHL Network over the weekend and they showed the '92 series between the Whale and the Canadians.

Schneider still looked young (and wearing #8) and the pairing of Andrew Cassells and Geoff Sanderson was a force.

I loved that era. The late 80's and early 90's was a great time for hockey.

And how can you go wrong with those awesome Whalers uniforms???

[livediehockey80 0]

If there was any justice in the NHL...there would be some serious relocation of franchises.

Hamilton Predators

Winnipeg Thrashers (Renamed as the Jets if the Coyotes surrender copyrights to name and logo). So Long Atlanta.

Wisconsin Panthers (Home games played in Milwaukee) Panthers are not native to the Wisconsin region...perhaps call them the Wisconsin Lakers, Bull Moose, or Warriors. I don't know. The Panthers need to leave Miami.

Quebec Coyotes. (Renamed Nordiques if the Avalanche surrender copyrights to name and logo). Bye Phoenix.

Salt Lake City Capitals. (Since SLC is the capital of Utah...the name can stay). Bye Washington, DC.

New Division Re-alignments:

EASTERN CONFERENCE:

Atlantic Division

Boston Bruins

Carolina Hurricanes

New Jersey Devils

New York Islanders

New York Rangers

Philadelphia Flyers

Pittsburgh Penguins

Tampa Bay Lightning

Northeast Division

Buffalo Sabres

Columbus Blue Jackets

Hamilton Predators

Montreal Canadians

Ottawa Senators

Quebec City NHL Team

Toronto Maple Leafs

WESTERN CONFERENCE

Midwest Division

Chicago Black Hawks

Dallas Stars

Detroit Red Wings

Minnesota Wild

St. Louis Blues

Winnipeg NHL Team

Wisconsin NHL Team

Pacific Coast Division

Anaheim Ducks

Calgary Flames

Colorado Avalanche

Edmonton Oilers

Los Angeles Kings

Salt Lake City NHL Team

San Jose Sharks

Vancouver Canucks