Michael Vick

[eva unit zero 271]

we already have three capable running backs. we need a guy who knows how to throw a football.

There's one of those taking over for Vick in Atlanta.

[HomeNugget 2]

There's one of those taking over for Vick in Atlanta.

i never really thought joey got a fair shake in detroit. he's a good quaterback, just not the kind of guy who can carry a whole team like the lions wanted.

[TimeBinder 28]

Vick is nothing but an animal himself - throw him out a 2nd story window, electricute him, drown him or better yet have him mauled to death by the very dogs he was using I wouldn't mind watching that he has no conscience or regard for life

[RockyMountainWingGal 108]

I think I'm in the minority here, but I don't understand the outrage about the whole Vick situation. I know dogfighting is a crime, and a felony in most states for some reason, but compare this to past accusations (because that's all this is at this point, he is still innocent until proven guilty).

Two quick examples:

Ray Lewis may have stabbed two people to death.... Nobody wanted to crucify him. Two human beings, not savage beasts like pit bulls.

Kobe Bryant (allegedly) sodomized some girl without her permission. He was quickly forgiven.

Why is it such a big deal if Vick actually did make some money by allowing dogs to fight each other for profit? It's their natural predilection to do so, anyway. He isn't accused of doing anything that harms HUMAN BEINGS.

I believe everyone should hold judgment of the guy until the results of his trial. If he is found guilty, the NFL has no choice but to keep him from playing. But I thought you were supposed to have a presumption of innocence in this country until you are found guilty by a jury of your peers.

Remember the bogus Duke rape trial? I'll laugh my ass off if this case ends up mirroring that one.

I've heard this arguement. The difference to me is that the former were "allegations" whereas we pretty much know Vick was fighting and murdering dogs (even if he gets off I think most would agree the evidence is overwhelming that he did these things).

As for Kobe - I personally don't like him - but nobody really knows what happened between him and the accuser. The girl freely entered his hotel room. As a women, I take rape cases very seriously, but I am aware that celebrities are targets for false accusations for money and attention (aka Duke). The fact that they didn't have much of a case makes me very unsure of what occurred - other than he cheated on his wife.

I am not as familiar with the Lewis case, although I would hope if he was involved in a violent crime - he would have been kicked out the NFL (wasn't he jailed for awhile or was that for drugs?). Don't care for him either way.

Just the fact that Vick is stupid enough to run a dog fighting ring and cruel enough to do some of the things he did - just makes him a disgusting person in my mind. There is no doubt on my part that he is guilty - regardless of the court case - kind of reminiscent of OJ- guilty but not convicted. Also, in my mind, if you are willing to torture animals for your personal pleasure, you are probably willing to treat people the same way.

[Guest jaytan]

I don't know about that last statement. Many people don't equate animals with humans at all. I don't think people ought to get too mad about dogfighting unless they're vegans or something, because then at least their lifestyle choice would be consistent with their outrage. As far as I'm conserned, dogs and cats are on equal footing with horses, tigers, pigs, frogs or rats (etc.).... And humans are in their own category.

If I remember the Lewis case correctly, he was involved in a bar brawl that involved a double-stabbing murder. He got off with a plea bargin.

Here's a wikipedia on it. I don't have time to read it right now though:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ray_Lewis_%28...#Murder_charges

[BlakChamber 8]

I don't know about that last statement. Many people don't equate animals with humans at all. I don't think people ought to get too mad about dogfighting unless they're vegans or something, because then at least their lifestyle choice would be consistent with their outrage. As far as I'm conserned, dogs and cats are on equal footing with horses, tigers, pigs, frogs or rats (etc.).... And humans are in their own category.

While it isn't exactly the same as what Vick is looking at, RMWG is right. A past history of animal abuse is one of the major signs looked for when police are looking for a serial killer.

I tend to believe that how people treat others below them, person or animal, is a good sign of what kind of person they are.

[RockyMountainWingGal 108]

I don't know about that last statement. Many people don't equate animals with humans at all. I don't think people ought to get too mad about dogfighting unless they're vegans or something, because then at least their lifestyle choice would be consistent with their outrage. As far as I'm conserned, dogs and cats are on equal footing with horses, tigers, pigs, frogs or rats (etc.).... And humans are in their own category.

[

I don't agree with your statement - even though animals are not on equal footing with humans - there are still plenty of laws against animal abuse. Just because people are carnivores (I was actually a vegetarian for 10 yrs but now am an omnivore) and wear animal products (ie leather, wool) doesn't mean they mistreat those animals. I actually work with animals for research and I am under close scrutiny for how they are treated. I can lose my license to do animal reasearch if I am found to not be taking proper care of the animals or mistreating them - I am constantly being inspected including unannounced visits. The round the clock veterinary care is probably superior to the medical care many people receive. Just because an animal is euthanized, does not necessarily mean they are mistreated. Although I would never get this argument past PETA.

[omnipotent_hudler 0]

. As far as I'm conserned, dogs and cats are on equal footing with horses, tigers, pigs, frogs or rats (etc.).... And humans are in their own category.

Etc.? Since you've gone and listed species from two different animal classes, I guess you're implying that all animals are the same across the spectrum? A flea has the same level of sentience therefore as does a wolf?

Really, at what point did humans become "superior" in the way that most people today imagine our species? At what point in history did humans ascend to this untouchable peak that is beyond the realm of mere "animals?"

If you were to travel back in time and examine each individual on the path of human evolution from the time of our divergence from our common ancestor with chimps, which individual would you point to and say "There, he is an animal and thus not worthy of my rights", and which individual would you point to and say "There, he is human and thus worthy of my rights" ?

This distinction between "person" and "animal" is only able to survive because we are not directly faced with such questions. That is, the millions of "intermediary" individuals between our ancestor 7 million years ago( and really looking at it like this is even flawed, because this ancestor too had ancestors and so on and so forth) are now all dead. That doesn't mean the principle of humans as somehow greater than animals is any less flawed.

[Guest jaytan]

Humans aren't separate because of superior intelligence and capablities, in my opinion. We are the same as any other animal from dolphins on down to the cockroaches in the grand scheme of things.... I separate us from the rest of the animal kingdom because I'm a member of the human species. I consider harm done to a human more of a crime than harm done to a rival species because it directly effects me.

[tipetz22 0]

I have never liked Michael Vick. He has never been a "leader" or even a good team player. Having watched a better part of the Falcons' games, I have seen Vick just sit on the sidelines and do NOTHING. He doesn't look at defensive schemes, talk to his teammates, pump them up, NOTHING. He just sits with a doubt founded look on his face!

I really ticks me off to see people blindly (sp?) defend this guy. This case is just the icing on the cake for me, its time to get rid of this guy. (don't get me started on Vick's little brother!)

Sidenote- If Vick is invovled or a the very least allowing these cruel behaviors with animals, who is to say he is not invovled/allowing other terrible stuff to happen (murder,drugs,rape,etc.)?

[Guest jaytan]

If Vick is invovled or a the very least allowing these cruel behaviors with animals, who is to say he is not invovled/allowing other terrible stuff to happen (murder,drugs,rape,etc.)?

What is this, the Minority Report?

It's one thing to bash him for misdeeds that, while he may not have been tried for yet, he's at least been charged with, but now you want to judge him as a potential murderer, drug abuser or rapist on top of that?

That would be like if you got a ticket for public intoxication, and your boss said, "Oh, so you abuse alcohol, huh? How am I supposed to know you aren't going to turn into a heroin addict and start burglarizing houses? You might even kill someone in the middle of one of your robbery attempts. You're fired and I hope you burn in hell!"

Edited August 2, 2007 by jaytan

[tipetz22 0]

What is this, the Minority Report?

It's one thing to bash him for misdeeds that, while he may not have been tried for yet, he's at least been charged with, but now you want to judge him as a potential murderer, drug abuser or rapist on top of that?

That would be like if you got a ticket for public intoxication, and your boss said, "Oh, so you abuse alcohol, huh? How am I supposed to know you aren't going to turn into a heroin addict and start burglarizing houses? You might even kill someone in the middle of one of your robbery attempts. You're fired and I hope you burn in hell!"

JT - Point taken, I am merely stated that we don't really know what happened at these "fights" (more like slaughters). Whose to say there wasn't other unwholesome activities? I just want people to take a harder look at him, and see him other then just a good individual player (at best, talk to me when he wins something) that can run.

And yes sometimes, I stay on my soapbox a little long.

Edited August 2, 2007 by tipetz22

[eva unit zero 271]

Etc.? Since you've gone and listed species from two different animal classes, I guess you're implying that all animals are the same across the spectrum? A flea has the same level of sentience therefore as does a wolf?

Really, at what point did humans become "superior" in the way that most people today imagine our species? At what point in history did humans ascend to this untouchable peak that is beyond the realm of mere "animals?"

If you were to travel back in time and examine each individual on the path of human evolution from the time of our divergence from our common ancestor with chimps, which individual would you point to and say "There, he is an animal and thus not worthy of my rights", and which individual would you point to and say "There, he is human and thus worthy of my rights" ?

This distinction between "person" and "animal" is only able to survive because we are not directly faced with such questions. That is, the millions of "intermediary" individuals between our ancestor 7 million years ago( and really looking at it like this is even flawed, because this ancestor too had ancestors and so on and so forth) are now all dead. That doesn't mean the principle of humans as somehow greater than animals is any less flawed.

The solution then is that only the most evolved individuals deserve the label of 'person' and everyone else can be 'animals.' And since anthropologists believe lactose tolerance to be the most recent human evolution, anyone who is lactose intolerant should be thrown into an arena for my amusement, and if they can't win, I'll just strangle them or electrocute them or maybe shoot them since I am a superior being and they are just a soulless meatbag to be used and abused.

[eva unit zero 271]

JT - Point taken, I am merely stated that we don't really know what happened at these "fights" (more like slaughters). Whose to say there wasn't other unwholesome activities? I just want people to take a harder look at him, and see him other then just a good individual player (at best, talk to me when he wins something) that can run.

And yes sometimes, I stay on my soapbox a little long.

While I don't usually think it's appropriate to bash a player's performance because of their personal lives (or vice versa) I think in this case an exception can be made, and I'll tell you why; Vick is a poor passer, but a gifted rusher. Yet he plays QB. Why? My guess is that it has to do with ego; quarterbacks get the glory. QBs are always regarded as the heroes. Vick could likely have been one of the best running backs ever had he chosen to utilize his gifts properly, but instead he let his ego choose his position.

[Guest jaytan]

The solution then is that only the most evolved individuals deserve the label of 'person' and everyone else can be 'animals.' And since anthropologists believe lactose tolerance to be the most recent human evolution, anyone who is lactose intolerant should be thrown into an arena for my amusement, and if they can't win, I'll just strangle them or electrocute them or maybe shoot them since I am a superior being and they are just a soulless meatbag to be used and abused.

Hey, if you can get away with it, more power to ya! If I could, I sure as hell would.

Anyway, Mike Vick's in deeeeep crap now. He just got sued for $63 billion billion dollars and it was revealed that he's bought missiles from Iran and has ties to Al-Qaeda. Maybe he could have recovered from the dogfighting allegations, but now he'll be penniless and rotting away at Gitmo!

http://www.abovethelaw.com/2007/07/lawsuit...vicks_a_def.php

A South Carolina prisoner accuses Vick of (in this order):

1. Violating the 1st, 2nd, 4th, 5th, 6th, 8th and 14th amendments to the Constitution.

2. Stealing his two pitbulls, disabling the RFID chips in their collars, and using them for dogfighting, then selling the dogs on eBay.

3. Using the proceeds from the pitbull sale to buy missiles from Iran's government.

4. Stealing the man's identity (from his coat), and using the stolen identity to open store accounts at Petsmart and Doggie Warehouse (so he could finance the dogfighting ring's petfood needs).

5. Violating copyright laws by using this man's name on his football outfit and casual clothing without paying him. He apparantly uses the man's name to sell Jonathan Riches mugs, Mr. Riches hats and T-shirts and has been doing so since January 10, 2001.

6. "On February 10, 2007, Vick pledged allegiance to Al-Qaeda."

7. He is accused of subjecting Mr. Riches to microwave testing.

8. Using drugs in school zones and being in the business of illegal steroids.

9. And finally, Vick has been "physically hurting my feelings and dashing my hopes."

At the bottom of the document, which was written on a few sheets of toilet paper, Mr. Riches apologizes for having to handwrite the suit due to restrictions on handwriters.

If Mike Vick doesn't get a reeeally good lawyer, he's done.

Try telling those who are blind that their dogs contribute nothing...

Try telling those who are blind that they're holding back the pack.

[Izzy24 44]

Try telling those who are blind that they're holding back the pack.

Are you being a dick to get a reaction out of people, or is this the way you really are?

[Guest jaytan]

If my beliefs make me a dick to you, that's fine. At least I'm being honest. I think most people feel similarly, but hypocritically mask themselves for the public.

[Izzy24 44]

Most people resent the blind for "holding them back?"

[Sergei Fedorov91 24]

Try telling those who are blind that their dogs contribute nothing...Try telling search, & rescue workers that specially trained scent dogs contribute nothing while searching for survivors...Try telling police/military dog handlers that their dogs contribute nothing while in a foot chase, or apprehending criminals/insurgents...Try telling the millions of dog owners worldwide whom love their companionship that dogs contribute nothing.

Get my drift?

[Sergei Fedorov91 24]

Remember the dogs looking for surivors in the ground zero wreckage? But no, their too dumb for that, they must've been looking for some chicken wings.

[Guest jaytan]

There was a woman on the Sean Hannity radio show on Friday who summed up the pro-Vick cause brilliantly.

Basically, she said that America stands for man's liberty and freedom, and if a man chooses to engage in dog fighting, that's no excuse to steal his liberty from him. The dog is his property! You cannot control a free man's property.

Edited August 18, 2007 by jaytan

[HomeNugget 2]

There was a woman on the Sean Hannity radio show on Friday who summed up the pro-Vick cause brilliantly.

Basically, she said that America stands for man's liberty and freedom, and if a man chooses to engage in dog fighting, that's no excuse to steal his liberty from him. The dog is his property! You cannot control a free man's property.

so i guess these same principals apply to andrea yates?

[eva unit zero 271]

There was a woman on the Sean Hannity radio show on Friday who summed up the pro-Vick cause brilliantly.

Basically, she said that America stands for man's liberty and freedom, and if a man chooses to engage in dog fighting, that's no excuse to steal his liberty from him. The dog is his property! You cannot control a free man's property.

I don't give a flying f*** whether you or some dumb ***** on TV agrees with whether dog fighting is inhumane. That's irrelevant to this issue. The only important fact is that dog fighting is illegal, and has been so since before Vick were born. The proper sentence in this case would be for the four defendants to fight arena matches until only one is left.

[HomeNugget 2]

I don't give a flying f*** whether you or some dumb ***** on TV agrees with whether dog fighting is inhumane. That's irrelevant to this issue. The only important fact is that dog fighting is illegal, and has been so since before Vick were born. The proper sentence in this case would be for the four defendants to fight arena matches until only one is left.

or electrocute the 2 weaker of the four and let the remaining 2 fight to the death.

[Hockeytown Red Wings 245]

I hope his cellmate is a dog lover.