Michael Vick

[Sergei Fedorov91 24]

Vick accepts plea deal

Well here it is, your basic admission of guilt. There was no question anyways. When the feds release an indictment on your ass more than likely your f***ed. It's different than a striper with a questionable past making charges of rape. Too bad he didn't take it, and go to trial and wind up doing hard time where one ex-convict on a radio show say he would just be one notch above a child molester because of inmates love of dogs and animals. I hope he has to fight and gets f***ed up if he performs badly.

[Guest jaytan]

meant to quote.

so i guess these same principals apply to andrea yates?

You're starting to understand.

Of course the same principles apply.... Your offspring should be your property until they are mature enough to take care of themselves. This is especially true for mothers, because they have sacrificed the most to bring the children into existence and in most societies, they have to sacrifice quite a bit of time and effort to keep the child thriving.

Infanticide has been tolerated among most world cultures throughout human civilization, and is still rightly practiced to this day. In our foolish state, however, we put first the needs of our least productive and most vulnerable members - children, the elderly, the handicapped, the poor, and so on - and make it harder for those most successful and productive to the common good to continue to thrive.

It's sickening.

Now back to the subject at hand (sorry):

Mike Vick's going to serve his time now. I guess he's being smart not to challenge the charges, but he already crossed some people at the NFL and Falcons offices by lying to them. He'll probably be a free man within two years, and thus still in physical shape to play. Do you see an NFL team signing him if he pretends to be redeemed and anybody believes him?

What I can't understand about this is why he didn't just go overseas and participate in dog fighting in a country where blood sports are tolerated. He had plenty of money to do that and wouldn't have been risking his reputation and career.

Edited August 21, 2007 by jaytan

[Izzy24 44]

meant to quote.

You're starting to understand.

Of course the same principles apply.... Your offspring should be your property until they are mature enough to take care of themselves. This is especially true for mothers, because they have sacrificed the most to bring the children into existence and in most societies, they have to sacrifice quite a bit of time and effort to keep the child thriving.

Infanticide has been tolerated among most world cultures throughout human civilization, and is still rightly practiced to this day. In our foolish state, however, we put first the needs of our least productive and most vulnerable members - children, the elderly, the handicapped, the poor, and so on - and make it harder for those most successful and productive to the common good to continue to thrive.

It's sickening.

Now back to the subject at hand (sorry):

Mike Vick's going to serve his time now. I guess he's being smart not to challenge the charges, but he already crossed some people at the NFL and Falcons offices by lying to them. He'll probably be a free man within two years, and thus still in physical shape to play. Do you see an NFL team signing him if he pretends to be redeemed and anybody believes him?

What I can't understand about this is why he didn't just go overseas and participate in dog fighting in a country where blood sports are tolerated. He had plenty of money to do that and wouldn't have been risking his reputation and career.

The "common good" means everyone, hence "common." This includes the groups you mentioned. You are arguing that society wastes resources on those you believe aren't contributing, but are also concerned with those who are most productive to the common good. These seem to be opposing viewpoints.

[Guest jaytan]

You've misinterpreted my definition of "common good". I don't believe this means everyone should be equaly served, because that is simply impossible. I mean everyone should have an equal opportunity to do what they wish and take advantage of their situation. Equal liberty for the individual does not prevent one individual from causing harm to a weaker individual who is unable to stop him. But if the weaker individual finds the means to defend himself, he is free to do so.

Everyone cannot be equally content, and when you try to impose that kind of a state, you make one group worse off than they were and the rest just as miserable as they always had been.

Edited August 22, 2007 by jaytan

[HomeNugget 2]

You've misinterpreted my definition of "common good". I don't believe this means everyone should be equaly served, because that is simply impossible. I mean everyone should have an equal opportunity to do what they wish and take advantage of their situation. Equal liberty for the individual does not prevent one individual from causing harm to a weaker individual who is unable to stop him. But if the weaker individual finds the means to defend himself, he is free to do so.

Everyone cannot be equally content, and when you try to impose that kind of a state, you make one group worse off than they were and the rest just as miserable as they always had been.

? so we should legalize murder because those too waek to defend themselves don't deserve to live?

[SouthernWingsFan 854]

I haven't read the previous pages of the thread, but I do not understand anybody trying to defend Vick's actions right now, where everything points to him having a high level of involvement in all this crap.

He took part in treating animals inhumanely and killing LIVING THINGS (and please let's not get into, well insects/bugs are living things, don't swat a fly etc. etc. etc.). What's to defend there?

Now, with that being said, even though I may not like it and it would probably be a PR nighhtmare, I think it's fair that Vick would get the chance to play in the NFL again, IF AND ONLY IF he completes whatever jail sentences he gets served on him and any suspensions that might result from the NFL itself. In that general sense, Vick should be treated no differently than another inmmate recently released and trying to look for work again (hopefully). It's not that simple, but you get what I'm saying I hope...

All I am looking for in this whole drama is for fair justice to be served. After that, Vick could do whatever he wants for all I care, whether it's play in the NFL again, the Candian Football League, etc.

[omnipotent_hudler 0]

Equal liberty for the individual does not prevent one individual from causing harm to a weaker individual who is unable to stop him. But if the weaker individual finds the means to defend himself, he is free to do so.

Infanticide has been tolerated among most world cultures throughout human civilization, and is still rightly practiced to this day. In our foolish state, however, we put first the needs of our least productive and most vulnerable members - children, the elderly, the handicapped, the poor, and so on - and make it harder for those most successful and productive to the common good to continue to thrive.

O hay guys is this where I sign up for the 19-20th century Social Darwinist convention

[Guest jaytan]

? so we should legalize murder because those too waek to defend themselves don't deserve to live?

In my opinion, we'd be better off without any laws at all.

But that's all I'm going to say, because I really have caused this thread to be de-railed and I don't think anybody wants to agree with me.

[BlakChamber 8]

In my opinion, we'd be better off without any laws at all.

But that's all I'm going to say, because I really have caused this thread to be de-railed and I don't think anybody wants to agree with me.

So which is it?

A: You don't believe any of the crap you're saying and are just looking for some attention and/or a reaction from people.

B: You do believe the crap you say and just weren't hugged enough as a child.

[Guest jaytan]

I believe in taking all principles to their logical conclusion, free of any bias besides self-interests and free of emotional motives. That's all I wish to say about the matter. Please go on discussing Mr. Vick.

[betterREDthandead 58]

I have yet to weigh in on this. But frankly, it's stupid, the whole thing. Don't get me wrong here: Michael Vick, and his idiot younger brother Marcus, are punks, thugs, and morons, and frankly both are probably on the tracks to jail for one reason or another no matter what. If it wasn't dogfighting, it probably would have been something else. But seriously. It's dogfighting. It's not murder, rape, robbery, assault, or even drunk driving. What a stupid thing to have an uproar over.

[eva unit zero 271]

I have yet to weigh in on this. But frankly, it's stupid, the whole thing. Don't get me wrong here: Michael Vick, and his idiot younger brother Marcus, are punks, thugs, and morons, and frankly both are probably on the tracks to jail for one reason or another no matter what. If it wasn't dogfighting, it probably would have been something else. But seriously. It's dogfighting. It's not murder, rape, robbery, assault, or even drunk driving. What a stupid thing to have an uproar over.

I would argue that Vick's crimes are worse than robbery, assault, and drunk driving. It's not just dogfighting; he executed animals inhumanely due to their poor performance in fights. A comparable situation would be the difference between situations of the prison system forcing inmates to fight, and one where it not only forced fights, but then executed those who did poorly, regardless of the reason they were in prison.

[omnipotent_hudler 0]

I believe in taking all principles to their logical conclusion

You're failing pretty poorly as your conclusions (which have contradicted each other several times in this thread) have already been tested and found to be unsupported(See 20th century).

It's dogfighting. It's not murder, rape, robbery, assault, or even drunk driving. What a stupid thing to have an uproar over.

We're all dumb for getting pissed off about inhumane treatment of (partially) sentient beings, then?

[SouthernWingsFan 854]

I have yet to weigh in on this. But frankly, it's stupid, the whole thing. Don't get me wrong here: Michael Vick, and his idiot younger brother Marcus, are punks, thugs, and morons, and frankly both are probably on the tracks to jail for one reason or another no matter what. If it wasn't dogfighting, it probably would have been something else. But seriously. It's dogfighting. It's not murder, rape, robbery, assault, or even drunk driving. What a stupid thing to have an uproar over.

He's played a big part in the involvement of treating them inhumanely though and killing the ones that have "failed" in action. I don't know how long this has been "illegal", but I'm sure it's been for a while. Now, I haven't followed the case and updates to a T, I don't care that badly about it, but if he's taken a big part in killing living things (I know I know, don't step on a fly or roach then....), that seems like a pretty serious offense.

[omnipotent_hudler 0]

I know I know, don't step on a fly or roach then....

Sentience

[Guest jaytan]

You're failing pretty poorly as your conclusions (which have contradicted each other several times in this thread) have already been tested and found to be unsupported(See 20th century).

OH, you cut me off mid-sentence. You forgot the part about self-interest.

And what's so bad about the 20th century? It had some great potential, but didn't follow through.

[Guest REDWINGS4LYFE]

whats wrong with dogfighting?

Chickens die for our enjoyment we eat them

Cows Die for our enjoyment

Dolphins/Whales die in our aquariums for our enjoyment in japan they make soup out of them

Deer/moose die for sport

Fish are killed for sport

Bears are killed for sport

why the big deal about dogs!

[Guest REDWINGS4LYFE]

i guess no one can counter my argument

[BlakChamber 8]

i guess no one can counter my argument

Yes, that's exactly it. Everyone is cowering before your superior intellect.

[omnipotent_hudler 0]

whats wrong with dogfighting?

Chickens die for our enjoyment we eat them

Cows Die for our enjoyment

Dolphins/Whales die in our aquariums for our enjoyment in japan they make soup out of them

Deer/moose die for sport

Fish are killed for sport

Bears are killed for sport

why the big deal about dogs!

It's unnecessary suffering. Most people like to believe, whether it's true or not, that the meat they eat comes from sources where the animals are killed humanely. Whether the meat itself is necessary is a whole other argument. Regardless, these dogs were not killed in any way that even came close to resembling a humane killing. That's why people are pissed.

Hunting is another argument entirely.

[Guest REDWINGS4LYFE]

did you know the cows you eat are trapped in small areas with just enough breathing room so they don't move around and gain muscle (hard meat)

same with chickens they are trapped with hundreds of other chickens

[omnipotent_hudler 0]

did you know the cows you eat are trapped in small areas with just enough breathing room so they don't move around and gain muscle (hard meat)

same with chickens they are trapped with hundreds of other chickens

Like I said, most people either don't like to think about that, believe that the meat they are buying comes from "humane" sources, or honestly don't know about the conditions you have described. Thus it is still perfectly natural and expected for them to get pissed over inhumane treatment of dogs.

Of course then there are those who simply don't care what conditions the animals that they eat are kept in but still are pissed over what Vick has done because dogs are "cute" or "friendly" or something... That argument doesn't make a whole lot of sense(and I don't think there are that many that use it).

[Guest REDWINGS4LYFE]

if he gets anything bigger than a paris hilton sentance i will be chocked

[SuperCalaFilppulastic! 34]

if he gets anything bigger than a paris hilton sentance i will be chocked

Get ready to be chocked then.

Do not expect anything less than a year, or over 2. This is a federal case.

[Guest REDWINGS4LYFE]

what am i thinking he is going to get 10 years, i forgot its all about the race