Holland Speaks About Offer Sheets

[YoungGuns1340 1]

Link

A few interesting points:

"I've had a number of people call me to tell me we got Pavel at a bargain price. But that's the salary cap system.

This is exactly the philosophy Burke shouldve used

"It's identify your core guys, get them tied up long term and hope you didn't make a mistake."

I really dont understand why Burke was willing to take a huge risk with Bertuzzi, but not willing to take a risk with Penner. A 5 year contract at 3.3M probably wouldve been a big enough pay day for Penner AND ended up as a bargain in the end, even on a 3-4 year deal.

[FinWing 26]

Way to go Kenny.

[Wings_Dynasty 267]

<<< See avatar & description.

Edited August 4, 2007 by Wings_Dynasty

[HockeyCrazy3033 168]

Kenny is the man.

[Majsheppard 203]

That's the way a classy guy gives the finger.

a bit of a FU to Burke in his own way.

[irishtemper14+25 11]

lol i really like the way kenny works

[Aussie_Wing 354]

So they see Kronwall as a core guy. Interesting.

[Heaton 1]

So they see Kronwall as a core guy. Interesting.

Interesting why? I thought signing him to his contract pretty much showed what they thought of him.

[WingNut199 0]

So they see Kronwall as a core guy. Interesting.

Oh please, give the guy a f**king break. Kronwall is just as likely to be the next nick lidstrom as zetterberg is to being the next yzerman. He has been hurt and hasn't been given enough to to really develop! You holland bashers love to nit-pick every POTENTIAL mistake he makes then are disproven a year or so later almost every time! Just how you'll be bashing holland when Igor doesn't score 20 goals his first season (even though i think he will) then during his second or third season is an up and coming "datsyuk" like talent

[SouthernWingsFan 854]

Insert overdramatic anti-Holland post for not signing toughness or an enforcer *HERE*

[YoungGuns1340 1]

Kronwalls contract gets way too much flack on here. Detroit has every reason to believe that Kronwall will get over his injury woes a la Fischer and be back to status this year. Not to mention, Kronwall has thrived at every level of hockey when he has been given top minutes - with Markov and Schneider gone and only Rafalski coming in, hell likely see those big minutes. Kronwall was all he was billed to be in his first 20 games as a Wing. In those games he showed everything you expect out of a #3 and potential for more. Its funny how quickly people forget that. Its also funny how people can call Kronwall a crappy player when he hasnt even played a full season at the NHL level yet. I also think people dont realize that last year was essentially Kronwalls "rookie" year.

I wouldnt be surprised if people are talking about how Kronwall earned his 3M paycheck this year. Theres no doubt that over the next 5 years (up til Kronwalls 31), Kronwall's contract will average out to be a complete bargain.

Edited August 5, 2007 by YoungGuns1340

[HockeyCrazy3033 168]

I've thought of Kronwall as a star the second he played his first shift as a Wing, and I still think that very same thing now. The only reason he gets ripped on is because he's been injured so much. Aside from that he shows that he has a TON of potential and is only going to get better. Those of you bashing will be thanking Holland for the deal he signed Kronwall to. When he's healthy, he's right up there.

[RyanBarnes! 293]

Insert overdramatic anti-Holland post for not signing toughness or an enforcer *HERE*

Holland did talk about GM:s becoming risk assessment analysts, didn't he? Not having an enforcer is definitely a risk in my opinion.

Sidenote; 10 MUSD for Briere is insane...

[Kp-Wings 3]

Insert overdramatic anti-Holland post for not signing toughness or an enforcer *HERE*

Why is this always your immediate reaction everytime a topic about Holland is posted? Even when the words "toughness", "grit" or "enforcer" aren't even used, you still bring it up, like it's so terrible that issue is ever discussed.

Sidenote: I love this line by Holland:

"It's identify your core guys, get them tied up long term and hope you didn't make a mistake."

That's such a great way to say F U to Burke for pillaging the Wings roster like he did. He's right, too. If Burke had put his man love for Bertuzzi aside, he could have kept Penner.

[Aussie_Wing 354]

Oh please, give the guy a f**king break. Kronwall is just as likely to be the next nick lidstrom as zetterberg is to being the next yzerman. He has been hurt and hasn't been given enough to to really develop! You holland bashers love to nit-pick every POTENTIAL mistake he makes then are disproven a year or so later almost every time! Just how you'll be bashing holland when Igor doesn't score 20 goals his first season (even though i think he will) then during his second or third season is an up and coming "datsyuk" like talent

Relax! I'm not having a crack at Holland, I just find it interesting how highly they rate him, and most of it's simply on 'potential'.

[SouthernWingsFan 854]

Why is this always your immediate reaction everytime a topic about Holland is posted? Even when the words "toughness", "grit" or "enforcer" aren't even used, you still bring it up, like it's so terrible that issue is ever discussed.

Because it's funny to see people in here overreact about it and about Holland over and over again, when in my honest opinion, those things aren't as big a part of the game as some make it out to be in here.

Holland did talk about GM:s becoming risk assessment analysts, didn't he? Not having an enforcer is definitely a risk in my opinion.

If an enforcer is a major reason why the Wings have been making the playoffs and winning a few Cups in a 10+ years, then talk to me.

If the Wings continually screwed the pooch season after season and missed the playoffs, and an enfrocer is a major reason for getting them to the playoffs to contend for the Stanley Cup, then I'd understand the continuous need.

Enforcers/fighting lose their value pretty quickly in the playoffs, where it matters most.

Edited August 5, 2007 by SouthernWingsFan

[Detroit # 1 Fan 2,204]

Because it's funny to see people in here overreact about it and about Holland over and over again, when in my honest opinion, those things aren't as big a part of the game as some make it out to be in here.

If an enforcer is a major reason why the Wings have been making the playoffs and winning a few Cups in a 10+ years, then talk to me.

If the Wings continually screwed the pooch season after season and missed the playoffs, and an enfrocer is a major reason for getting them to the playoffs to contend for the Stanley Cup, then I'd understand the continuous need.

Enforcers/fighting lose their value pretty quickly in the playoffs, where it matters most.

Because guys like McCarty and Joe Kocur never stepped it up in the playoffs right?

To win the stanley cup , you need some kind of enforcer. Look at Anaheim , hell Carolina has Craig Adams , Tampa had Andre Roy , New Jersey had Oliwa , we had McCarty and Avery , the avs had Scott Parker , NJ had Oliwa , The Stars had Craig Ludwig and a couple other guys , we had Kocur , Lapointe , McCarty back in the glory days.

Im not saying , go sign a caveman that plays 15 seconds a night and gets 3000 PIMS a season. I want someone who can play the game , a guy like Asham who is still avaiable. Drake was a step in the right direction , but getting tougher players makes other players play tougher. Look what happened to Datsyuk and Zetterberg when they stuck Homer on the line , they started finishing checks and using there body.

Edited August 5, 2007 by Detroit # 1 Fan

[Zion 93]

I bow before Kenny. There's no getting around it.

That said, where's the toughness, Kenny?!! >

Edited August 5, 2007 by Zion

[Guest nutz2u]

Holland did talk about GM:s becoming risk assessment analysts, didn't he? Not having an enforcer is definitely a risk in my opinion.

Sidenote; 10 MUSD for Briere is insane...

If you had your pick of available "enforcers" who would you pick and how much would you pay them?

[Detroit # 1 Fan 2,204]

If you had your pick of available "enforcers" who would you pick and how much would you pay them?

Arron Asham , 2 yrs 1.85 million. Done and Done.

[eva unit zero 271]

To win the stanley cup , you need some kind of enforcer. Look at Anaheim , hell Carolina has Craig Adams

Tampa had Andre Roy

Parros played five playoff games, Adams is 6', 200, and had 21 points and 51 PIM in 67 regular season games in 2006...not sure how he or anyone else on that roster qualifies as an enforcer, considering Mike Commodore (138) and Eric Staal (81) were the only Canes that year with more than 70 PIM, with Aaron Ward, Rod Brind'Amour, and Justin Williams rounding out the 60+ PIM.

we had McCarty and Avery

McCarty was not a true enforcer, and was at best a light heavyweight. Avery is a middleweight, and he has yet to win a Cup so I am baffled by his inclusion here.

the avs had Scott Parker , NJ had Oliwa , The Stars had Craig Ludwig and a couple other guys

The total number of playoff games played by Parker and Oliwa in Cup years is four, all by Parker in 2001. Ludwig was the best shot blocking defenseman in the league, and one of the better stay-at-home guys. Calling him an enforcer is like calling Michael Peca or Dirk Graham enforcers.

we had Kocur , Lapointe , McCarty back in the glory days.

Kocur was a physical grinder, but his primary purpose in the Cup years was to provide a solid defensive presence with Draper and Maltby. Lapointe and McCarty often played on scoring lines; neither was a true enforcer.

Roy is the only true enforcer you have mentioned who actually saw regular time in a Cup-winning playoff, and you've interestingly enough left off Chris Dingman, who won Cups higher on the depth chart than both Parker in 2001 and Roy in 2004. Dingman actually had a pretty good shot, too, although his puckhandling skills were pretty terrible.

[Guest nutz2u]

Arron Asham , 2 yrs 1.85 million. Done and Done.

So you would be willing to pay him double the 942,000. Franzen makes?

[Detroit # 1 Fan 2,204]

Roy is the only true enforcer you have mentioned who actually saw regular time in a Cup-winning playoff, and you've interestingly enough left off Chris Dingman, who won Cups higher on the depth chart than both Parker in 2001 and Roy in 2004. Dingman actually had a pretty good shot, too, although his puckhandling skills were pretty terrible.

I cant beleive I forgot Chris Dingman! I used to like him back in 04. Does he still play in the NHL? I havent heard anything about him in a while.

My point was , you need tough players to win cups. Everyone I named was a tough player. Most of the runner ups for the stanley cup had tough players. You dont need to be a cavemen, but being able to drop the gloves and still play the game is important to teams morale and if they feel safe when there playing. Zetterberg and Datsyuk felt safer with Holmstrom on there line , imagine if they had a guy like Asham or Neil playing on there team? (I know we wont get Neil , just throwing out a name)

So you would be willing to pay him double the 942,000. Franzen makes?

925000 per year. So yes , I'd give Asham that

[eva unit zero 271]

My definition of gritty/tuff - Shanahan, Konstantinov, McCarty, Lapointe, Wendel Clark, Gary Roberts, Rick Tocchet, Keith Primeau, etc, etc.

Enforcers - Probert, Kocur, Laraque, McGraton, Oliwa, etc, etc (some can play - some can't).

Probert was a better player than Lapointe ever dreamed of being. Probert played less, usually on a lower line, and yet consistently put up better seasons. Not just talking raw numbers, either. Given the choice between Probert or Lapointe in their primes, I would take Probie every damn time. He scored 20 goals in 63 games in 91-92 ON THE FOURTH LINE. He scored 19 in 78 on CHICAGO'S fourth line, after having not played in over a year. The real fact of the matter is...had Probie not gotten into drugs and alcohol, he would likely have scored around 300 goals. Look at it this way...if you assume he averages 20 goals per 80-game season from 85-86 (rookie year) through 95-96 (his last solid offensive season), which is not unreasonable because he actually DID average 20 goals per 80 games over that span, and assume he averages maybe 75 games without drugs and alcohol...that means about 200 goals in eleven seasons, if he scores at that average pace. 300 isn't that far off, especially because he scored 30 goals in 383 games after that, and he'd have been in better shape, played more, and probably played longer. Figure he plays 6 seasons, 75 games average, and has held up better over the years because he hasn't destroyed his body with drugs and alcohol. 15 goals per season average is not unreasonable at that point...in fact I'd say it's realistic.

I cant beleive I forgot Chris Dingman! I used to like him back in 04. Does he still play in the NHL? I havent heard anything about him in a while.

My point was , you need tough players to win cups. Everyone I named was a tough player. Most of the runner ups for the stanley cup had tough players.

The Wings out-toughed Calgary and San Jose. They played straight up against Anaheim and weren't physically intimidated. Toughness had NOTHING to do with the Wings' loss this year...unless you consider Schneider's injury an example of a lack of toughness?

[Guest nutz2u]

I cant beleive I forgot Chris Dingman! I used to like him back in 04. Does he still play in the NHL? I havent heard anything about him in a while.

My point was , you need tough players to win cups. Everyone I named was a tough player. Most of the runner ups for the stanley cup had tough players. You dont need to be a cavemen, but being able to drop the gloves and still play the game is important to teams morale and if they feel safe when there playing. Zetterberg and Datsyuk felt safer with Holmstrom on there line , imagine if they had a guy like Asham or Neil playing on there team? (I know we wont get Neil , just throwing out a name)

925000 per year. So yes , I'd give Asham that

Your splitting hairs with that 17K. Now that you have 1.85M in a 25 point player what do you pay Flippula and Cleary in '09 when we have to resign them?